UKC

I've seen this a couple of times recently, where someone has started up a trad line only to get too psyched to complete the route and then having to lower off. And on the two occasions I saw, the person being lowered was fretting about the quality of what they were lowering off, in one case it was a rusty peg at Avon, another was a couple of sacrificed nuts at Wyndcliff.

As they are lowering off, stripping the gear they have placed, they become more and more aware that a failure of the gear above will result in a ground fall...

Before the guy at Avon started to lower off I went over and explained that by simply attaching a prussik from your harness to the rope going up, and by shifting it down as you are lowered, you have isolated the massive loop of rope going up to the top anchor, a failure of the top anchor now would be similar to taking a lead fall to your last bit of gear. Maybe it was the way I explained it, but the guys lowering off didn't understand / would rather take the risk...

This is well documented in sport climbing when lowering off dodgy bolts, so why when it comes to trad do I never see this happening?

Anyway, if someone looks at this and think 'ah yes, that's a good tool to have stored for that one time I need it' then I feel I haven't wasted my time in writing this!

Climb safe

In reply to BStar:

Sounds a good idea. But in the event of the highest gear failing (the dodgy bit) would the prussik cord take a leader fall?

In reply to BStar:

Good point, although it does get a lot more complex if you're using double ropes clipped separately - i think generally best to prusik onto only one of them, even though it seems counterintuitive, unless you really really really think the lower-off is going to fail.

In reply to BStar:

ah yes, that's a good tool to have stored for that one time I need it.

Thanks - have never thought about doing this. Hopefully shouldn't have to!

In reply to BStar:

As long as the gear doesn't fail while you are passing another bit, also it maximises your time hanging on the top bit of gear, unless I have misunderstood what you mean....

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

http://www.ascenttraining.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Lowering-of-a-si...

In reply to BStar:

Simultaneously lowering off dodgy gear and stripping the pitch seems like insanity... probably an interesting psychological factor here failing to think about a bomber/OK runner for climbing suddenly changing purpose and becoming an inadequate anchor to lower off that should be improved (lowering to better gear if necessary). At least until they get halfway down and the possibility of a ground fall becomes more terrifying...

I can't see any reason your method wouldn't work as well on trad as sport if the gaps between pieces are not too big.

Also if you are using double ropes you can have only one running through the top anchor. That requires simultaneous giving/taking by the belayer but will achieve the same thing?

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Yeah it was as I thought, but bolts are slightly different to rusty pegs and dodgy gear though......

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

Both can be modelled exactly the same way once they have become detached from the wall though... (and if they don't become detached then there is no issue)

In reply to BStar:

Never heard of this before thank you, safely stored for future!!

In reply to BStar:

saving that idea for later, I'm sure the next time I have to back off I'll have a brain fart and not remember it but hey!

In reply to BStar:
Excellent point. It's worth remembering that this technique serves a purpose for non-linear or zig-zagging pitches as well - eliminating the need for a quickdraw for tramlining.

In reply to broken spectre:

I guess that it's taking the "person" end of the leader fall, not the "gear" end of the leader fall, so no pulley effect. I think received wisdom is that a leader fall on the top piece normally generates up to 7-8 kN (?), so 5mm cord rated to 6 kN (more in a loop) should be OK?

This is just be blathering though and may or may not be correct.

In reply to climbwhenready:

Petzl website has a section on lowering off.

Their test is for a 7mm prussick ( tied triple) on a 9.7mm rope.
Tested on a 4m fall with no damage to prussick or rope.
Unfortunately they give no indication of rope out/ fall factor and limitations of using thinner ropes/thinner prussicks/bigger falls/ fall factors.
IIRC there have been fatal accidents lead rope soloing with 5mm prussicks.

Possibly David Coley has covered lowering off in his book, he may be along shortly.

In my 47 years of overambitious mind/coupled with inadequate body I have vast experience of lowering off.
Frequently gear that has held a fall, will fail on the lower, possibly because of different angles of pull between the lowering and fall situation, or maybe it just thinks it done enough already.
So be careful!

In reply to BStar:


Single pitch, with access to the crag top. Why did they not lower off safely and then abseil to retrieve everything?

In reply to bpmclimb:

Maybe failing light? Wyndcliff top is really trick/difficult to find the top of a route - so you need time...