UKC

Hoping someone can give me an idea of what to expect here and how to deal with what comes.

My motorbike (VFR800 2004) had to go to the garage as the alternator is not charging the battery.

The short bit -
They've found the regulator was knackered and got a new one for £40. Fitted it, it worked initially but then it stopped, so they're checking for an earth fault now.

Any idea how many hours it would take up until now and potentially including the search for the fault now the part is in?

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The long bit -
They've had the bike for 3 weeks tomorrow. They don't call me with updates, I've had to chase them each week. They said they'd look at it in the first couple of days but didn't for 2 week, then ordered the part which came 2 days later (friday gone) and I've called again this morning to get an update (as above).
They won't give me a rough figure for work done or to do.
(ok I guess that wasn't SO long...)

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So I'm worried about
1/ the cost for labour which they won't give me a figure for
2/ how much they might do without updating me and then try and charge for
3/ if anyone could estimate how much work is involved from this point with the ongoing issue
4/ do mechanics generally allow large payments to be spread out or am I going to have a job getting my bike back if I can't pay the completely unknown amount up front?
5/ Am I right that they're taking hte piss with the length of time they've taken so far?

I've always done most jobs myself and when I've not I've never had any problems before with the guys doing it so really looking for anyone with experience of such things.

thanks guys

In reply to Scarab9:

Give them a call back, ask for the manager and discuss your concerns over, rates, cost to date, estimates and the time it's taking. They're not unreasonable questions.

The work you mention really shouldn't be taking very long if they have parts and know what they're doing. I suspect it's being bumped down the list because someone doesn't understand electrics very well or there's more lucrative work coming in and taking priority.

See if you can find the official Honda workshop manual for the bike online, if it's anything like the Yamaha manuals it's step by step from diagnosing to fixing the fault. The Yamaha ones are far and away the best technical manuals I've ever seen.

jk

In reply to Scarab9:

Good luck with all that. I've a V plate (99?) VFR 800 and had no end of regulator/rectifier issues. It seems to be a common problem, and the usual mistake is replacing like for like. Generally there are better after-market parts available.

If you google you'll find all kinds of suggestions about:

* moving it (it gets too hot)
* if you move it it gets too wet

and so on.

What's really strange is that mine lasted from New until ~ 2013 the next one lasted 1 year, the 3rd is still in, and was fitted very cheaply (frankly I think the garage were embarrassed about their failure to fix the fault).

In reply to jkarran:



This is what is bugging me. If they said "it will be two weeks before we can do it" then fine and I can make a decision on what to do. But just leaving me hanging for some very expensive 3 weeks with no transport is not on. (and 2 weeks not long before for an MOT and a quick job changing a brake pad because I couldn't get the bolt off without stuff I didn't have!) Very much doubt I'll be going there again unless there's a problem that means I can't start my bike at all (it's the closest place)


I'll be having a look later when I get a chance. I've got the haynes or whatever make it is which is good for servicing tasks but I didn't know there were diagnosing guides! If I can find one of them I'm laughing!

In reply to Scarab9:
They had it for 2 weeks to do an MOT and change a brake pad? I can't believe you went back after that! They sound hopelessly disorganised, even if their work was up to scratch. IME, there are a lot ( possibly a majority ) of decent mechanics who don't have a clue when it comes to electrics. They just follow a checklist and swap parts out - which sounds like what your guys have done. For a more complicated issue like the one your bike appears to have, you should take it to someone who specialises in electrics. Ideally someone who's heard of the VFR regulator problem and can suggest something more than simple replacement.

In reply to Scarab9:
Hi,

Having owned the same bike, and had a similar issue with charging I would suggest your regulator/rectifier is failing. Left hand side, under side panel from memory. Should be able to determine with a clamp meter on its output to check current going into battery.

If the regulator is good and still no charge going into battery then suspect a generator coil fault.

A new one was pretty expensive as I recall (£200+), and needed to be shipped in from Honda Europe though this was a long time back for me, 40 quid sounds like a second hand one to me, it could also be faulty?

Wayne

In reply to Scarab9:

There's bound to be a forum dedicated to the vfr's I had a 99 gsxr which suffered the same thing with the regulator/rectifier issue. I'd get my bike back and chuck them a drink say £20 and get a manual, get on the forum and get spanner monkeying till you're elbow deep in grease oil

In reply to Scarab9:

To diagnose and fit a Reg/rect is about a 20 min job. £40 sounds reasonable for parts+labour, although fitting a Mosfet R/R from someone like West Country Windings would be a better, if slightly more expensive option.

In reply to Scarab9:

You should count yourself lucky pal. My car went in last December and I still haven't got it back. I've sorned the f*cker and will be towing it off their site when I get round to it. Shan't be paying them any money neither...

In reply to Removed User:


what on earth is wrong with it / the garage?!!!!

>To diagnose and fit a Reg/rect is about a 20 min job. £40 sounds reasonable for parts+labour, although fitting a Mosfet >R/R from someone like West Country Windings would be a better, if slightly more expensive option.

thanks. I'm not so clued up with electrics (the mechanical side I can get through) and wanted a (HA!) fast turn around as the bike is my only form of transport other than my legs (this week has cost me a fortune and included 5 hour commutes on what normally takes 2hrs...) so I took it in. But I will do some reading up for 'next time' if this is a common fault and know what to do.

>There's bound to be a forum dedicated to the vfr's I had a 99 gsxr which suffered the same thing with the >regulator/rectifier issue. I'd get my bike back and chuck them a drink say £20 and get a manual, get on the forum >and get spanner monkeying till you're elbow deep in grease oil

as above. problem with it being starting from rookie with electrics, needing to buy some extra tools for the job, and needing a fast turn around.....bastard garage


>A new one was pretty expensive as I recall (£200+), and needed to be shipped in from Honda Europe though this was a long time back for me, 40 quid sounds like a second hand one to me, it could also be faulty?

bloody hell I hope that's not needed! I'm already nervous about the cost :-/

anyway, thanks to all above comments. Gives me a better idea of where I stand anyway. The garage is the closest bike one to me (small town, others a fair trek) so had to be the case with a bike that wouldn't move, but anything where I can shift the damn thing I'll be tkaing elsewhere.

In reply to Scarab9:

I have a '98 VFR, I had to replace the reg/rec and stator on it, wasn't too tricky but did have to take the cover with the stator bolted to it to the garage as I couldn't undo the bolts. Mine are friendly chaps though, they didn't try to charge me.

I'm not knowledgeable on electrics, but I found a good troubleshooting document. It wasn't hard with a cheap digital multimeter.

I don't think it was this one, but it might be useful: http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/acatalog/Troubleshooting-3P-PMG-&-RR.pdf

It might have been this actually, but I thought it was a pdf: http://www.electrosport.com/technical-resources/technical-articles/how-moto...

Found it! http://www.electrosport.com/media/pdf/fault-finding-diagram.pdf

You're welcome. If you get it back and try it yourself I'll tell you what I've found out.

£40 does seem cheap, I'll try to find out where I got mine if you're interested. I put a PC fan on it to help with cooling.

I thought they might have improved on this for the newer models.

In reply to Scarab9:

an update for anyone curious having offered ideas and advice....

The generator was also knackered. So a replacement is on it's way and due monday hopefully (thankfully they found one on ebay)

Looks like they're being pretty fair with labour costs as it's £180 including the generator (90), regulator (40) and labour. So bit more to put it all back together next week and hopefully it works.

In reply to Scarab9:
Honda Reg/Recs of that era are famous for giving up. Keeping them cool seems to be the key, either move it into somewhere with more airflow or jubilee clip a pc fan to it. A local earth straight to the frame is a good idea too.

If the reg/rec is toasted, a £40 one from ebay might be all you need. If the generator is bust as well, I might spend a little bit of time checking the wiring between the two. You'll probably find connectors have got a bit hot, melted a bit, corroded a bit, cooked the wiring a bit. You might be able to clean the plug contacts up and carry on regardless, but replacing the wiring would cost you about £20 in connectors and wire, and really isn't beyond the wit of just about anyone.

None of it is tricky to fix. If you really don't want to do work on your own bike, a really easy way to save labour charges is to remove the plastics yourself before it goes to the garage. Probably half their labour time will be getting them off and putting them back on again. It's piss easy. Do it yourself.