UKC

On a permanent contract with 12 week notice period, so having handed in notice on 28th September, is it normal procedure and in accordance with employment law to automatically calculate leaving date as at 21st December i.e. 12 weeks later? Reason for asking is that at the time I agreed verbally and put into resignation letter that leaving date would be finalised in due course as my immediate line manager was on leave and I tried to be fair to my employers and management and allow them to speak to each first. I’ve now proposed 31st December as leave date (which gives more notice than required), but head honcho has said that as that is extra period compared to 21st then my leave is reduced by a day and I owe them a day in new year. So they have used 12 week period to automatically calculate things once handed in letter going against agreement at the time. So I wonder if that is standard employment practice – if so fair enough, it trumps my agreement with them i guess even if a bit two faced.

Only a day but leave in new job is less than current so would prefer to avoid if possible. Cheers in advance for any comments!

In reply to d508934:

I'm not sure about the legalities but as the 1st of Jan is a bank holiday and a Friday you could probably have the 3rd as your end date and not have to do any extra.

In reply to d508934:

It's hard to say given that I'm not a lawyer and haven't seen either your letter or employment contract but I suspect you may just have to put it down to experience.

It's a bit late now but personally I always specify my last working day in the notice and hand it in exactly 12 weeks (or whatever) beforehand so there's no room for misunderstanding.

In reply to d508934:

That sounds crazy... In theory you accrue a bit of holiday for every day you work. If you work longer (even if on notice) you accrue a fraction more... As far as I know all aspects of contract remain in place during contract period except (usually) discretionary bonus which is usually only paid if you are in employment and not under notice to leave at time it is due to be paid.

Assume 25 days holiday per year.... at 21st Dec you have worked circa 51 weeks.... take 25 and divide by 51 weeks... you accrue 0.49 days leave per week worked. Assuming you have used 24.5 days holiday by 21st December you are all square. If you have used 25 days holiday by 21st, you will have taken about half a days paid leave that isn't accrued by that time in year. However, by offering to stay until 31st you will have worked entire year and accrued full years holiday rights.

I definitely can't see how working for longer would result in you owing them extra time.

Even if your holiday year is not calendar year, the principle is the same... you or they owe a bit of time at point you stop working, and working longer means you will owe them less or they will owe you more....??

In reply to d508934:

technically its from the verbal agreement. It is why you should never verbally say " i resign" as employers can take your word for it.

Stick with the 12 weeks.

In reply to d508934:

If they don't want you stay the extra then nothing in your letter makes them.

As for the holiday, I would have expected them to owe you. We have 4 fixed days to take us form 24th to 31st (inclusively). If I left on 23rd I would have accrued the whole year's holiday allowance (with rounding) but they would owe me those 4 days.

It would be different if your holiday year isn't Jan->Dec.

In reply to Philip:

thanks for responses everyone, good to know I'm not going crazy and that working for slightly longer should definitely mean they owe me fraction amount more rather than other way round. but as someone pointed out, I'll put it down to experience and in future be clearer with resignation letter, rather than try to be helpful to employers, just causes too much faffing!

In reply to d508934:

You are correct that the 12weeks date stands unless varied by mutual agreement.
The leave anomaly is likely to be due to pooling of bank holidays with normal leave. The extra time will accrue you a small amount more leave but, depending on when your leave year runs, may mean that you have had additional bank holidays beyond the running average.
In any event, parting on good terms is always valuable, so I wouldn't query it.
J

In reply to d508934:

Its probably more the case that if you are leaving they don't want you to stick around for 2 bankholidays (xmas&boxing) and the general slacking around christmas

In reply to d508934:

Do your holidays run April to April or January to January and how many holidays have you taken?

If it is April to April and you have already used what you would have accrued by Christmas then on paper you might not have enough left to cover Christmas day and boxing day without working until February (random date picked rather than trying to do the math)

Leave on the 21st and let's say they owe you a day.
Leave on the 31st and you have taken 2 more days but you only had 1 left and have not accrued the extra day due to it only being a few extra days worked.

In reply to balmybaldwin:

Reckon you're right.

They would have to give the bank holidays off as paid leave (assuming they normally do) so why would they want to pay an extra weeks wage when you will be off 2 days bank holiday plus 2 days weekend?

As said earlier, the extra leave accrued by working a week would be 1/52nd x total annual leave. They shouldn't really pool bank holidays into the total amount. The bank holiday dilemma often crops up with job shares, coz the person working first half of the week gets more bank holidays, which legally do not need to be pro-rata'd between staff. Basically, if you normally work the day the bank holiday falls on, then you get that day off.

Just throw a sickie last few days and have done with it!

In reply to d508934:

I'd agree to work through xmas if you have those days off.

I just resigned and agreed to work til the 6th November, it was 2 weeks longer than my notice period but I knew we have 3 of that last week as leave anyway so for 7 days work I get another $2500.

But I sent the letter to my HR as my contract specified (which I never signed anyway), not my manager. I'm employed by them, my contract is with them. I actually trust them more as they have been honest about how much leave I was required to give (which as I never had a contract was redundant).

In reply to mick taylor:

I'm not sure you're correct. The law changed from 20 days min holiday + bank holidays, to 28 min holiday.

In the old system I believe you had pro-rata 20 + whatever bank holidays you were working (or days in lieu). But now you have to include some fraction of bank holidays.

My wife's company does this. Her 3 day week means she is off for more fixed days (bank holidays + other fixed days) than her entitlement and she loses a day from her pro-rata floating days.

Similarly, if you join a company 1st June and leave 1st December you'll only get 1 bank holiday, but you'll be entitled to 14 days min holiday, which they might incorrectly calculate as 10 days.

I think this is why 25 days holiday (ex bank holidays) is becoming a popular condition, it reduces the likelihood of falling foul of the law.

In reply to Philip:

Reckon youre right. And apols for mis info.