UKC

Ok. Newbie question - I've only ever skied on piste and have only skied a few days in the last decade. But I'm very interested in some ski touring in Scotland. I'm aware that I need to get a lot of on piste mileage under my belt (and improve my fitness) before going off-piste. I'm thinking seriously about investing in some kit. Two reasons 1- I don't like the idea of hiring whenever I go to the slopes 2 - I think it makes sense to practice (learn) on the kit I intend to use off piste. Does that make sense? If so, I'm attracted to the idea of free-heel skiing although I've never tried. I like the idea of lighter more robust kit. I also have an old ankle injury which plays up a bit sometimes and I think that the extra movement would keep it from stiffening up. Would telemark kit make sense for touring in Scotland? Can you recommend a place to hire some kit before I think about buying? Any other advice? Cheers

In reply to Pbob:

You can hire kit here http://www.braemarmountainsports.com/index.php?main_page=rental

Another option is to buy a second hand set up just to learn and then get some better kit when you know what your doing. These days some Alpine touring kit can be lighter than some Telemark kit, it's all very much mixed up. Telemark turns might put more pressure on your ankle if it does don't right off Alpine.

In reply to Pbob:


You shouldn't.... it's stupid...


It ain't and the freedom will prolly wreck your knee... or ankle.

Reasonably solid skis, with tech bindings and suitable at boots (eg. TLT6) is the way to go. Depending on how flimsy skis you get, they can be a true set for anything else than bottomless Utah or Niseko powpow... Whilst my opinion on "touring" skis are well know here, I'm not that set on skiing in Scotland... So won't comment anything other, than you might get wider and longer skis than what someone suggest (or not).



As for skiing on-piste... well, you need to know how to ski down, but even though the skiing on or off piste really isn't different, n00bs seem to make it so... So, my advice is to ski on piste in order to get feel on skiing dynamics. But after you survive down (with a tine amount of style) some harder slopes, also set your target to off piste skiing. And even think of doing a trip to the alps... skiing soggy moguls on a steep piste in afternoon sunshine, with ice everywhere else and about few hundred others bouncing around from said moguls... well, nothing even remotely as hard is available whilst touring...

In reply to Pbob:
Yes, it makes sense to have your own kit and practise on it, but not to make a rushed purchase! Free-heel is fun, but it is significantly harder than AT gear, and not really significantly lighter or more robust. I'd probably recommend that you go the AT route, but you need to find out what works best for your dodgy ankle. From what I've observed, the proportion of folk touring on tele gear in Scotland has gone down quite a bit in the last 10 years as lighter AT gear has become available. I converted from tele to AT a few years ago and don't regret it at all. Don't worry to much about not being an expert: obviously practice will help, but there are plenty of moderate tours available in Scotland which are accessible to intermediate skiers (like me!).

Mountain Spirit http://mountainspirit.co.uk/wp/equipment-hire/ in Aviemore also hires out touring gear.

In reply to Pbob:
After a relatively short on-piste skiing history (ok on reds, very sketchy on blacks) I invested in touring boots, skis skins and bindings that I could also use to enjoy and develop my skiing off and on piste. First day out was skinning up and skiing down Cairngorm with some more experienced mates. it's generally unlikely you will need good deep powder technique to ski tour in Scotland. Shortly after I did a week off piste course in Chamonix. My skiing continued to develop over the years but I found my soft touring boots (Scarpa Denali) were holding me back so I bought some much stiffer and more substantial free ride boots (Black Diamond factor) which are brilliant and fine for a couple of hours' skinning. I still have the Denalis for longer tours.

Having your own gear is as you say great for being familiar with your own kit and not having to hire

I also have a bad ankle injury and feel reassured that it's protected in a nice solid ski boot. Freeheel? No Way!

I would go to a specialised supplier for advice on boots, bindings and skis, eg backcountry UK in Ilkley or Braemar Mountain Sports in Aviemoor or Ballater.

Choice of bindings Fritshi frame vs Diamer pin gets folk arguing. Diamer are lighter and reportedly more positive to ski hard, but you can use normal ski bots in Fritshi You won't notice the difference in skiing performance unless (until) you are an expert. Even then I know guides and off-piste instructors who use Fritshi

In reply to Pbob:
there is a fair bit of info here skitourscotland.co.uk

Nordic skis are suitable for Scotland HOWEVER it's best if your idea of skiing is munro bagging on skis rather than steep stuff.

classic ground covering Nordic kit is light and simple but descending is tricky.

there is a range of frankly daft heavy telemark kit avoid.


Braemar mountain sports are great people. And I think do a pretty good hire before you buy deal so you can try stuff

In reply to Pbob:
I started off piste many years ago on nordic touring gear - great for the rolling hills around braemar /grampians. I now tour /off piste on telemark gear which I find much more satisfying than a fixed heal -I can tackle any ground that any AT set up would handle. If you do want to go down the tele route you'd be best going for a free pivot binding or perhaps the NTN set up. That said, I wanted to take up tele after 10years + experience on piste and getting bored with the whole skiing thing - I just wanted a new challenge. Takes a while but I love it and I still paralell when I like.
Braemar mtn sports /mountain spirit in aviemore are great places for advice.

forgot to add - if you really want to try tele , you can try at most of the snow domes. for scotland; https://scottishtelemarkclub.wordpress.com/

In reply to Pbob:

Some sound advice above. Think it's important you decide what you're wanting out of touring. Are you looking for a racing set up where you'll race up hill but any form of decent is just torture or do you want to focus on enjoying yourself downhill?

Everyone will have a slightly different opinion on what style of gear (short skis, long skis, narrow skis, wide skis..etc.) or even skiing to go for so make sure you have a clear idea of what you're looking for before starting to buy kit (which is why rental is a good idea) as it can be pretty darn expensive to get it wrong.

Personally, I wouldn't recommend trying telemark skiing if you haven't mastered standard alpine skiing. And as enjoyable as light kit can be on the way up, it can remove a lot of pleasure out of the skiing, try turning in some deep snow with flexible boots and long skis and you'll quickly understand what I mean.

In reply to Pbob:
Nordic gear is fine for places like the Cairngorms, less so for further west but the choice really comes down to personal preference. You don't need much skill to tour, but the more you have the more enjoyable & safer it becomes. But even with almost no technique its fun to wonder up some of the valleys (I have fond memories of skiing into the head of Glen Einnich on xc skis before I knew any turns).

But if you want to ski gullies & other steep slopes alpine gear will be easier.

In reply to Pbob:

Thanks folks. A good variety of opinions. I think my next step is to visit the shop in Braemar and hire something to try on piste.

Much appreciated.

In reply to Pbob:

Alpine and Dynafit type bindings are fine and dandy if you want to limit yourself to hut-to-hut or daytrip type skiing but if you fancy doing some touring/wild camping in the arctic then I would recommend Nordic binding (SNS or NNN type) or if you are in hilly terrain I'd recommend a light Telemark boot such as the Scott (Garmont) excursion coupled with Voile Switchback bindings.
Alpine skiing and kit has its place but Telemark skiing looks so much better. Think of it as the trad climbing of the skiing world.

In reply to Iwan:

Nordic set ups are fine if you want to limit yourself to dull plods on rolling terrain but if you fancy doing some real skiing then I would recommend an alpine set up.

In reply to DaveHK:

Well,

With proper tele gear (ie. not lightweight nordic stuff), the downhill can be fun. But it's harder and the gear about the same weight as AT-stuff... so why bother.

In reply to DaveHK:

Nordic gear is fine for downhill if you know how to ski without training heels. Many military units have now changed from cable bindings to NNN gear so it is probably more robust than it looks.
I use lightweight Telemark gear as I don't limit myself to hut-to-hut trips as I prefer to wildcamp. I can wear light Telemark boots all day as they are fine for walking in; if I use alpine gear I have to carry a second pair of boots for wearing once the skiing stops. I've tried all forms of skiing (even skating!) and find Telemark is probably the most versatile method if not the safest or easiest. Horses for courses...

In reply to Iwan:

Out of curiosity when you say that kit is fine for downhill what do you mean? Would you tackle a red or a black equivalent on it?

My assumption was that Nordic kit was good for travelling but of little use if the downs were your goal. Telemarking is another kettle of fish.

As you say horses for courses.

In reply to DaveHK:

I could get down a red in Nordic gear but not with the same grace that I could muster if I was using alpine gear. I do know Norwegians who could ski before they could string a sentance together who would be fine on black runs in Nordic gear or even with a couple of 4x2s nailed to their boots.

Touring ranges from easy hut to hut routes that follow prepared tracks to skiing on remote and steep mountainsides. The OP did not state their preference so I'm not sure if they'd be best served by Nordic, telemark or alpine touring kit.

In reply to DaveHK:
telemarking is nordic !

But I've skied pistes like the Tiger at Glenshee (is that black ?) in narrow but steel edged skis & leather boots. Without edges my limits on the piste seem to be blues. The narrow skis quickly get difficult off piste when the snow isn't nice spring névé

In reply to Doug:


It's actually a turn...


Indeed, using regular XC-gear (ie. the one you use on prepared xc-tracks in scandinavia or the alps) can be used to get down blue's, provided the conditions are good enough. Same can be said for perhaps red's. Skill and finesse is required how ever. I've done some of the red's in Åre on my xc-gear (normal SNS-profils) quite a few times... it wasn't fun, especially when it was rather ice. But on a good day, I did manage to (nearly) get the full slope down in style... Too bad, I fell some 50m from the lift bottom station and in front of the que. And to make things worse, that was almost flat section and I had styled the steeper parts without problems.

In reply to Doug:


I was using the terms to differentiate between skinny skis for travelling and modern telemark kit for DH or touring. Maybe I'm using the wrong terminology? It's certainly two very different sets of kit.

In reply to HeMa:


Agree, but also a type of binding/boot combination (see any catalogue)

In reply to DaveHK:


but there is (or was, now harder to find) a continuum between narrow (typically 55mm underfoot) skis with 3 pin or cable bindings to wide skis (>90 mm) with cable or NTN bindings & plastic boots. For many years I skied a pair of Tua Cirques, about 70mm, with cable bindings & plastic or leather boots depending on the terrain. Not always pretty but got me across the Haute Route & similar tours while being OK on more gentle terrain (this was at a time when I couldn't really afford a quiver of skis/boots)

In reply to Doug:

Yes...


And it's also a region in Norway .