UKC

This happened to me this morning, and has happened several times before.

It leaves me mystified every time.

Cycling along, I passed a random cyclist who was pootling gently along at low speed minding their own business. I was probably doing twice the speed they were.

They showed no sign of speeding up/trying to get onto my tail or anything like that.

A bit further up the road I came to a halt at a red light (yes, I stop for them) at the front edge of the "Bike box" painted on the road.

A short while later, the aforementioned cyclist appeared at the junction, rode around me & came to a halt directly in front of me. When the lights went green, they set off gently on their way, so I had to ride round them again.

The concept of stopping behind me as they were:
a: second to arrive
b: clearly slower

had apparently never entered their mind.

Anyone care to tell me what's going on in their heads? "Very little", I suspect.

In reply to Chris Harris:

Something to do with random particles, I believe. If you have a lot of them, it's called a brain; if only a few, then they generate that sort of behaviour.

In reply to Chris Harris:

Easily explained : People are ars*holes.

In reply to Chris Harris:

If you hadn't overtaken them they'd probably have turned out to be one of the people who stop at the back left corner of an otherwise empty bike box, blocking the entrance so that everyone else is stuck on the left hand side of the cars...

In reply to Chris Harris:

This happens to me too and it's baffled me for years. It's not so much the going in front as the fact I have no insight or understanding of why. I hesitate to ask in case they're mad people.

Cheers

Toby

In reply to Chris Harris:

The guy clearly know nothing about cycling - you should wait behind the other cyclist, doing a trackstand, and then jump him when the lights change

In reply to Chris Harris:


Wasn't Trafford Roundabout in Salford Quays, by any chance ? Big nasty, busy, staged three lane roundabout.

Sometimes when I get there and the light is red I find myself a wee bit anxious. I need to go straight over the roundabout and leave at the third exit....there's been a couple of occasions where cars taking the first exit don't see me (due to my Klingon invisibility shield / hi viz jacket) and just plough left.

If I hit the lights on red, I'll stop in the box, but I'll move right / forward out into the centre of the lane to try to make myself a bit more visible to the car directly behind me.

I suppose to another cyclist who is tight on the left it may appear like I'm 'trying to get ahead of them'

In reply to ThunderCat:

No no no, imagine you've passed the other cyclist, you at about say 20mph on a road bike or commuter them doing 9mph on a mtb with knobbly tyres. You catch the next set of lights at red and stop and a few minutes later they slowly pass you before cutting in front so they block you and stop over the stop line. You then have to pass them immediately on setting off. It is baffling and I'm pretty sure it's nothing competitive or racy, it's just a bit weird, like you're not even there.

Cheers

Toby

In reply to Toby_W:

Ah, it was just in case my actions were misconstrued (cos I was on a mtb with knobbly tires going 9mph, hehehe)

No explanation for the behaviour in that case, other than general human irrational behaviour that we all seem to get when we get on, or in a vehicle.

In reply to Toby_W:

Is it just a case of somebody getting as far forward and away from traffic as they can. Not excusing it.

In reply to Chris Harris:

This is referred to as 'shoaling'. See the original blog here: http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.co.uk/2009/05/indignity-of-commuting-by-bicycle...

Seems to happen to me a lot too, the worst offenders being deliveroo riders

In reply to Chris Harris:

I wait behind in that kind of situation unless ...

the box is a bit full and it would mean I am mixing it with the traffic, in which case I pull alongside sometimes, sometimes I'm too scared to use the full width of the lane because it means stopping directly in front of a vehicle and then trying to make my way to safety quite quickly when the lights go green, or

if there's a lorry at the front of the traffic queue I quite often go ahead of the front of the cyclist advance stop line. This dates from me having a sit in the front of a lorry and a friend dancing around in front and saying "can you see me yet" and I couldn't see them until they were a damned sight further ahead of the lorry than a cycling stop lane is.

Agree, very annoying. Few times I tried to speak to them, but they just ignore you or say something like "sorry, I didn't noticed you".

Only way to avoid something like that is to stop at very edge of crossroad so no one could get in front of you.

In reply to psaunders:

That's it, no matter how far forward you stop they go past, jutting into the road.

It is just so strange though, like if I walked onto the 100m track and calmly stepped in front of Usain Bolt like he wasn't there. I can understand people getting angry on the road in cars, on bikes, in buses or commuter racing but this, well it's harmless and it makes me smile but I have no idea why.

Thank you for starting this, lightened my day.

Cheers

Toby

In reply to Chris Harris:

Isn't it just another example of how people become overloaded with data while they're riding/driving and so everything becomes an object or hazard rather than a pedestrian/cyclist/driver.

In reply to Chris Harris:

Perhaps its like the hare and the tortoise. Just their way of saying - look where your speedy cycling has got you. Here I am at the same spot at the same time.

Just like me in my car yesterday... overtook a slow mow, then as I was stuck at the lights further down the road I could see him trundling up, to a standstill at the side of me. Don't you just hate it when that happens.

In reply to Chris Harris:

I don't wish to sound prejudiced in any way, shape or form but, have you considered that these people might also be BMW drivers as well?

In reply to Chris Harris:
that made me chuckle . never had a cyclist do it to me . had it done loads of times whilst driving , with other drivers . on dual carrageway . over take a car in the outside lane and pull into the left hand lane . come to a set of lights and the car I have just overtaken goes into the outside lane next to me . some people are just muppits

In reply to Chris Harris:

some people are idiots. Least on the bike they are less of a risk to you.

The ones I find fun are those who cycle slowly between red lights and then jump them resulting in leapfrogging all the way along the road. Although I suspect they are thinking "what an idiot why ride fast and then stop at each light. what a waste of effort".

In reply to Chris Harris:

It is weird. So they went right round you and parked out in front of the cycle box?

That is just plain weird.

I often pull out into the middle of the cycle box (especially if I'm turning right, or it's a bus/truck that might not see me out to the side.) If you do this you'll already be positioned to get the snap on the weird slow nobbly tire person.

In reply to Chris Harris:












It's not unique to cyclists.

Have you ever been stuck behind a car on a motorway hogging the outside lane at 70 when the middle lane is clear?

And then, when they finally decide to pull over to the middle lane - usually after several minutes of flashing them - they then accelerate to 80.

In reply to KevinD:


Lots of them in Glasgow.

What's everyone's views on cycling very slowly (i.e. walking pace) through the lights when the pedestrians are all on green? There seems to be no consistency - some riders cruise through at full speed, frightening the pedestrians, other (like me) cruise very slowly (often helps when you have just missed the lights and don't want to wait a full cycle) and some other just stay put.

In reply to Fultonius:


I've taken to following the rules all the time to not give cyclists a bad name. It seems simplest.

In reply to Chris Harris:

If there were cars stopped behind you, then maybe they wanted some sort of 'protection' from them. Seeing you as the more confident (faster) cyclist, perhaps they subconsciously pulled in front of you in order to afford themselves a bit of protection from the traffic when pulling away?

In reply to Chris Harris:

Do they actually stop in front of you, ie they go in front of the line? (I'm assuming you're at the line here)

In reply to edunn:


I very much doubt that there was that much active thought behind the process.

A very short-lived bit of protection, if that was their plan.

In reply to Fultonius:


That its a crap idea. Not as bad as going through flat out but still a shit idea.

In reply to Timmd:


This does cross my mind. I could go back to getting off and walking but you feel like such an idiot as there's no logical difference between the two.

In reply to KevinD:

Why? What's the difference between that and getting off and pushing the bike through?

In reply to Fultonius:


One is legal, one isnt.

In reply to KevinD: Well yes sir, good response.

So let's imagine a society where ACTUAL HARM CAUSED was more important that fairly arbitrary laws. What would be the worry then?

Laws can be changed.

In reply to Donald82:


Yup. Bang in front.

In reply to Chris Harris:

That's mad, that is. Nowt as queer as folk

In reply to Chris the Tall:


But in my experience, although trackstanders normally get off to a quicker start than most (as they are actually watching the lights), they aren't quite as quick as foot-downers in the correct gear who are also paying attention.

In reply to Fultonius:


You have to reframe it in your mind as a clever workaround, and then it's quite satisfying.

In reply to Fultonius:

You seem to be missing the point that laws are there to prevent harm being caused in the first place rather than trying to address ACTUAL HARM CAUSED.

Indeed. So change them rather than ignoring them.

In reply to Fultonius:


I can, its not an overly pleasant one. As a cyclist would you feel overly safe if that principle was applied to drink drivers, for example? So long as they dont actually kill someone its no harm done.

In reply to KevinD:


Imagine if people drove at 80mph in free flowing motorway traffic. Horrible thought, isn't it?

In reply to KevinD: No it's about the RISK of harm.

A drunk driver has a high likelihood of having an accident and the consequence of such an accident could be fatal.

Me cycling (at walking pace) through a pedestrian crossing - likelihood of accident is very low, consequences of an accident, very low.

It's all about acceptable risk. Except, its not, it's about arbitrary laws....

In reply to Chris Harris:

Tortoise and Hare?

In reply to Fultonius:


Thats not what you said previously.
However lets continue with your claim.
So you feel the risk of harm from you doing what you do is low. As do many drink drivers.
See a problem emerging here?

In reply to KevinD:


There's one crucial difference, though...

In reply to Marek:


And some proof that the rules can indeed be changed (in France, at any rate): http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33773868

In reply to Chris Harris:

Ok. My explanation attempt, psychologically.

The slower you cycle, on average, the scarier you will find car traffic.

The spot at the front is the furthest from the scary cars.

It's only once you have confidence you see yourself as part of the traffic rather than constantly taking avoiding action from it.

In reply to KevinD:

It's not that I *feel* the risk is low, objectively it can be verified.

Objectively it can be verified that drink driving is highly risky.

You're not going to win this one.

In reply to Fultonius:

I get exactly what you mean, The only time I sometimes don't is when it's something like 2 in the morning and there's nobody around to see me other than cameras, and it's quiet enough to hear the sound of tyres on the road of any cars approaching, then I'll carefully cross on red for me while cycling.

Used to do it a quite lot when I lived somewhere quiet and leafy and things ground to a halt after around 1am and I was cycling down the hill from my parents, the only thing I'd encounter was a hedgehog or the occasional taxi (easy enough to hear when there's nothing else around), but now I'm somewhere busier I'm happy enough to wait a couple of mins and have the lights on my side when setting off.

In reply to Fultonius:


under certain circumstances yes, under others no. Its best not to leave it to the driver/cyclist to make the call which it is though.


True, in the same way I wouldnt with a drunk driver. Similar to them your actions are liable to put me at risk since there will be some halfwits who treat your disregard for the law as an opportunity to disregard the law regarding cyclists as well.

In reply to Chris Harris:

Not seen quite such an extreme example, but I know exactly what you're on about.

Next time you see him, stay back and do it to him?

Seen plenty of other not-thought-through daft things from other cyclists at junctions, too.

In fact, I have coined the phrase "neon-noddies" to describe many of my fellow commuters, who seem to think that top to toe hi-viz and more lights than Harrods means you don't have to pay any attention to other road users. Usually found wobbling along at walking pace.

In reply to Fultonius:




Legislators have already objectively verified that a law is needed for overall highway safety. Laws provide clarity rather than relying on individual judgement and can't describe every possible combination of circumstances so they have to be fairly general.

In reply to Chris Harris:

Just sneak up behind them and quietly tighten the rear brake.

Then ride off when the lights change.

In reply to Chris Harris:

Its surprising how many cyclists go around seemingly oblivious to their surroundings. Cambridge is full of them. You get to expect 'random' maneuverings.

In reply to Chris Harris:

That's probably the same thought that drivers have when a cyclist undertakes them and pulls out in front of them in a bike box junction!

In reply to Jim Hamilton:

It's called 'filtering' when motor/cyclists go down either side of cars or between lanes of cars, and the box junction is expressly there for cyclists.

In reply to Jim Hamilton:


You've got a good point there. How often do you as a motorist get held up by a slower cyclist, and being a responsible and considerate motorist you have to wait for quite a while before you can overtake them safely, only to find that at the next set of lights they come past you and then stop in front of you? How considerate is that?

Using roads requires consideration by everyone cyclists and cyclists, and cyclists and motorists.

In reply to Trangia:


Not really. ASL are there for a reason (a flawed reason in my opinion but still a reason).

In reply to Jim Hamilton:


Get a bike then.