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So the russians are up to their necks in doping, corruption and cover-ups
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/34765444
Will Coe be brave enough to suspend the Russians - as WADA recommends ? Given the way Putin has reacted to the scandal over the 2018 world cup I don't think he'l take it lightly.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/34765444
Will Coe be brave enough to suspend the Russians - as WADA recommends ? Given the way Putin has reacted to the scandal over the 2018 world cup I don't think he'l take it lightly.
In reply to Chris the Tall:
Maybe they should settle it by feats of physical prowess: best of three, judo, 1500m and 800m. Even if Putin's chemically enhanced my money would be on Coe.
> Will Coe be brave enough to suspend the Russians - as WADA recommends ? Given the way Putin has reacted to the scandal over the 2018 world cup I don't think he'l take it lightly.
Maybe they should settle it by feats of physical prowess: best of three, judo, 1500m and 800m. Even if Putin's chemically enhanced my money would be on Coe.
In reply to Chris the Tall:
I am sure Putin will be willing to sit down and have a chat over a cup of tea.
I am sure Putin will be willing to sit down and have a chat over a cup of tea.
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In reply to Dave Garnett:
I think that one of the three should play to Putin's strengths to allow for a fair contest.
I'm not sure what to suggest but since both are exceptionally vain, perhaps they can punch each other on the nose until we have seen enough. A small boy can be the judge because he's unlikely to call a halt before one is dead.
> Maybe they should settle it by feats of physical prowess: best of three, judo, 1500m and 800m. Even if Putin's chemically enhanced my money would be on Coe.
I think that one of the three should play to Putin's strengths to allow for a fair contest.
I'm not sure what to suggest but since both are exceptionally vain, perhaps they can punch each other on the nose until we have seen enough. A small boy can be the judge because he's unlikely to call a halt before one is dead.
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In reply to Mike Highbury:
You mean shooting?
> I think that one of the three should play to Putin's strengths to allow for a fair contest.
You mean shooting?
In reply to nutme:
I did think of that but didn't want it to come after the judo when VP may have to compete with a broken arm; but the same might be said of punching in the face.
No, we need a winner takes all contest, which is fair to both of them and entertainment for us, of course.
Rollerball? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollerball_(1975_film)
> You mean shooting?
I did think of that but didn't want it to come after the judo when VP may have to compete with a broken arm; but the same might be said of punching in the face.
No, we need a winner takes all contest, which is fair to both of them and entertainment for us, of course.
Rollerball? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollerball_(1975_film)
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In reply to Dave Garnett:
That very much depends on the order of events for this celebrity death match!
CB
> Maybe they should settle it by feats of physical prowess: best of three, judo, 1500m and 800m. Even if Putin's chemically enhanced my money would be on Coe.
That very much depends on the order of events for this celebrity death match!
CB
In reply to Chris the Tall:
Putin will win, like him or loath him, he is nails and can face anyone down. He has done it with the USA, UN, EU.... coe is small fry.
Also let's not pretend the west isn't cheating at different sports either, it's just a question of who has been caught.
Putin will win, like him or loath him, he is nails and can face anyone down. He has done it with the USA, UN, EU.... coe is small fry.
Also let's not pretend the west isn't cheating at different sports either, it's just a question of who has been caught.
Post edited at 16:55
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In reply to Chris the Tall:
On a bit of a tangent, do Welsh speakers find it hilarious that the Russian athletics federation is called ARAF?
On a bit of a tangent, do Welsh speakers find it hilarious that the Russian athletics federation is called ARAF?
Post edited at 17:20
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In reply to summo:
Plenty of individuals from every country under the sun have been doping, but these allegations are way beyond that. This isn't simply turning a blind eye, it's a level of state involvement not seen since the DDR and others in the 80s. And the level of collusion within the IAAF dwarfs the corruption within FIFA. If this was any sport other than athletics it would be out of the olympics.
I think one major aspect here is that, since the end of the cold war, countries have been expected to do most of the oversight of their own athletes - lets not forget it was USADA who took down Armstrong and were almost stymied by their own government. On the other hand we have have Spain, Jamaica, Kenya....
That's surely going to have to change
> Putin will win, like him or loath him, he is nails and can face anyone down. He has done it with the USA, UN, EU.... coe is small fry.
> Also let's not pretend the west isn't cheating at different sports either, it's just a question of who has been caught.
Plenty of individuals from every country under the sun have been doping, but these allegations are way beyond that. This isn't simply turning a blind eye, it's a level of state involvement not seen since the DDR and others in the 80s. And the level of collusion within the IAAF dwarfs the corruption within FIFA. If this was any sport other than athletics it would be out of the olympics.
I think one major aspect here is that, since the end of the cold war, countries have been expected to do most of the oversight of their own athletes - lets not forget it was USADA who took down Armstrong and were almost stymied by their own government. On the other hand we have have Spain, Jamaica, Kenya....
That's surely going to have to change
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In reply to Ramblin dave:
LOL - my wife's favourite welsh word, said - in the style of a dog barking - every time she see's it painted on the road. And I mean, every time.
We haven't been to Wales for a few years...
LOL - my wife's favourite welsh word, said - in the style of a dog barking - every time she see's it painted on the road. And I mean, every time.
We haven't been to Wales for a few years...
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In reply to Mike
Why do you say that about Coe? To me he is all about substance. His achievements speak for themselves.
> I'm not sure what to suggest but since both are exceptionally vain.
Why do you say that about Coe? To me he is all about substance. His achievements speak for themselves.
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In reply to Robert Durran:
And here's mumsnet's testimony: http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/a1539249-To-want-to-pun...
> Why do you say that about Coe? To me he is all about substance. His achievements speak for themselves.
And here's mumsnet's testimony: http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/a1539249-To-want-to-pun...
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In reply to Robert Durran:
ovett was substance, coe was image.
> Why do you say that about Coe? To me he is all about substance. His achievements speak for themselves.
ovett was substance, coe was image.
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In reply to Robert Durran:
Indeed.
> In reply to Mike
> Why do you say that about Coe? To me he is all about substance. His achievements speak for themselves.
Indeed.
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In reply to Chris the Tall:
Seb Coe's been in post for some time, and has vehemently denied any funny business to the BBC in the near past. He should resign. Sep Blatter is probably available.
Seb Coe's been in post for some time, and has vehemently denied any funny business to the BBC in the near past. He should resign. Sep Blatter is probably available.
In reply to Mike Highbury:
A mixed lot there. A lot of the criticism just seems to be that he has a smug manner. As someone said, one person's smug is another's confidence. Perhaps the confidence that brought him multiple world records and two astonishing Olympic golds from the jaws of defeat. Not to mention masterminding a breathtakingly successful Olympics in the face of overwhelming and truly smug cynicism. Britain's greatest ever athlete by a mile and one of our great national figures.
> And here's mumsnet's testimony: http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/a1539249-To-want-to-pun...
A mixed lot there. A lot of the criticism just seems to be that he has a smug manner. As someone said, one person's smug is another's confidence. Perhaps the confidence that brought him multiple world records and two astonishing Olympic golds from the jaws of defeat. Not to mention masterminding a breathtakingly successful Olympics in the face of overwhelming and truly smug cynicism. Britain's greatest ever athlete by a mile and one of our great national figures.
Post edited at 18:20
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In reply to summo:
Bollocks. They were the two greatest athletes of their generation. Their differing personalities just added spice to the rivalry. You don't break world records and win Olympic golds just with 'image'. If anything was vain or smug it was Ovett's hand signals before even crossing the finishing line.
> ovett was substance, coe was image.
Bollocks. They were the two greatest athletes of their generation. Their differing personalities just added spice to the rivalry. You don't break world records and win Olympic golds just with 'image'. If anything was vain or smug it was Ovett's hand signals before even crossing the finishing line.
Post edited at 18:26
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In reply to Robert Durran: I do hope this works: http://www.houseandgarden.co.uk/interiors/hanging-pictures-creative-ideas-f...
In reply to Mike Highbury:
Afraid not. Seems pretty normal to me to have memorabilia about the house. I've got a bronze medal from the Scottish schools 800m in 1982 sitting on my mantelpiece. I'm quite proud of it (no disgrace to lose to Tom McKean!). I'm sure Coe is quite rightly proud of his achievements too.
> I do hope this works.
Afraid not. Seems pretty normal to me to have memorabilia about the house. I've got a bronze medal from the Scottish schools 800m in 1982 sitting on my mantelpiece. I'm quite proud of it (no disgrace to lose to Tom McKean!). I'm sure Coe is quite rightly proud of his achievements too.
Post edited at 18:43
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In reply to Chris the Tall:
How long have we been married?
> LOL - my wife's favourite welsh word, said - in the style of a dog barking - every time she see's it painted on the road. And I mean, every time.
How long have we been married?
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In reply to Robert Durran:
Coe was undoubtedly one of the greatest athletes of his generation and one of the greatest British athletes of all time, but he isn't running the 800 now. He will protect his own image and will try and limit damage rather than properly address the causes or scale of the problem.
Coe was undoubtedly one of the greatest athletes of his generation and one of the greatest British athletes of all time, but he isn't running the 800 now. He will protect his own image and will try and limit damage rather than properly address the causes or scale of the problem.
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In reply to Yanis Nayu:
True, but I was referring to his image, real or manufactured, it was clearly the base upon which he developed his career.
I don't mind the guy, but he won't get far with Putin.
> You don't break world records by having a good media strategy.
True, but I was referring to his image, real or manufactured, it was clearly the base upon which he developed his career.
I don't mind the guy, but he won't get far with Putin.
In reply to The New NickB:
That remains to be seen. He seemed very genuinely honoured and humbled to be given the IAAF job. I believe he really does have the best interests of the sport he loves at heart and will do whatever he can do to protect its future. And doping is the biggest threat to its future. Apologies for my unfashionable lack of cynicism.
> He will protect his own image and will try and limit damage rather than properly address the causes or scale of the problem.
That remains to be seen. He seemed very genuinely honoured and humbled to be given the IAAF job. I believe he really does have the best interests of the sport he loves at heart and will do whatever he can do to protect its future. And doping is the biggest threat to its future. Apologies for my unfashionable lack of cynicism.
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In reply to summo:
Nonsense. His career has been built on the foundation of his phenomenal success as an athlete and has shown the same vision, determination and self belief which brought world records and Olympic Golds. It could barely have less to do with image.
> True, but I was referring to his image, real or manufactured, it was clearly the base upon which he developed his career.
Nonsense. His career has been built on the foundation of his phenomenal success as an athlete and has shown the same vision, determination and self belief which brought world records and Olympic Golds. It could barely have less to do with image.
In reply to Robert Durran:
Of course he loves the sport, the history, his place in it. Perhaps the job needs somebody prepared to give the sport a kicking.
Let's not forget, his response to the Sunday Times revelations, was to shoot the messenger.
Of course he loves the sport, the history, his place in it. Perhaps the job needs somebody prepared to give the sport a kicking.
Let's not forget, his response to the Sunday Times revelations, was to shoot the messenger.
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In reply to Robert Durran:
clearly Ovett and Coe are still peoples chalk and cheese.
Sending in pretty boy goody two shoes to deal with someone like Putin will probably be a little comical.
China is probably still up there with the doping too, without these big hitters financially where will the winter games be in 2026, nobody wants it anymore. International sports governing bodies are pretty rotten in most sports, and I can't see it changing. There is simply too much money involved.
> Nonsense. His career has been built on the foundation of his phenomenal success as an athlete and has shown the same vision, determination and self belief which brought world records and Olympic Golds. It could barely have less to do with image.
clearly Ovett and Coe are still peoples chalk and cheese.
Sending in pretty boy goody two shoes to deal with someone like Putin will probably be a little comical.
China is probably still up there with the doping too, without these big hitters financially where will the winter games be in 2026, nobody wants it anymore. International sports governing bodies are pretty rotten in most sports, and I can't see it changing. There is simply too much money involved.
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In reply to Robert Durran:
Coe was the Vice-president of the IAAF at at time when that organisation was rebuffing allegations of doping. We have journalists to thank - not the IAAF - for finally shining some light on this mess.
Both Coe and the IAAF have a lot of catching up and apologising to do if they're to be taken seriously now.
> ... He seemed very genuinely honoured and humbled to be given the IAAF job ...
Coe was the Vice-president of the IAAF at at time when that organisation was rebuffing allegations of doping. We have journalists to thank - not the IAAF - for finally shining some light on this mess.
Both Coe and the IAAF have a lot of catching up and apologising to do if they're to be taken seriously now.
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In reply to summo:
You clearly despise Coe. Which begs the question: just where does that come from, and why? Just who are you? You remind me so much of so many (just about all) literary critics who've never written a book of their own, or film critics who've never made one film in their lives. What I'm asking is: just where does your Godlike judgement come from? I'd love to know.
> Sending in pretty boy goody two shoes to deal with someone like Putin will probably be a little comical.
You clearly despise Coe. Which begs the question: just where does that come from, and why? Just who are you? You remind me so much of so many (just about all) literary critics who've never written a book of their own, or film critics who've never made one film in their lives. What I'm asking is: just where does your Godlike judgement come from? I'd love to know.
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In reply to summo:
PS. Don't you realise just how bloody frustrating it is to see people hiding behind pseudonyms? And when you look them up you find out: 'Climb up to E3. Location: UK. Interests Outside Climbing: Kayaking, Caving'.
PS. Don't you realise just how bloody frustrating it is to see people hiding behind pseudonyms? And when you look them up you find out: 'Climb up to E3. Location: UK. Interests Outside Climbing: Kayaking, Caving'.
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In reply to summo:
Canada seemed pretty keen on having the Winter Olympic?
> clearly Ovett and Coe are still peoples chalk and cheese.
> Sending in pretty boy goody two shoes to deal with someone like Putin will probably be a little comical.
> China is probably still up there with the doping too, without these big hitters financially where will the winter games be in 2026, nobody wants it anymore. International sports governing bodies are pretty rotten in most sports, and I can't see it changing. There is simply too much money involved.
Canada seemed pretty keen on having the Winter Olympic?
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
Let's not forget he voted for tax credit cuts in the Lords. That says something about the merit of the man in my view, regardless of his achievement/smugness ratio.
Let's not forget he voted for tax credit cuts in the Lords. That says something about the merit of the man in my view, regardless of his achievement/smugness ratio.
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In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
The 'anonymous' thing? Again?
Summo's been here years. He's not hiding. Address what he says, not what books he's read.
The 'anonymous' thing? Again?
Summo's been here years. He's not hiding. Address what he says, not what books he's read.
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In reply to The New NickB:
Well Coe, to be understated, has a pretty impressive record of achievements. Let's hope he can continue this record in his IAAF job. I for one wish him well. There seem to be people out there who just don't like him for no apparent reason and, I suspect, would rather see him fail and athletics go the way of cycling.
> Of course he loves the sport, the history, his place in it. Perhaps the job needs somebody prepared to give the sport a kicking.
Well Coe, to be understated, has a pretty impressive record of achievements. Let's hope he can continue this record in his IAAF job. I for one wish him well. There seem to be people out there who just don't like him for no apparent reason and, I suspect, would rather see him fail and athletics go the way of cycling.
In reply to summo:
I always liked them both. Just different personalities and running styles, but both with phenomenal talent which gave us one of the greatest rivalries and some of the most thrilling moments ever in sport.
> Clearly Ovett and Coe are still peoples chalk and cheese.
I always liked them both. Just different personalities and running styles, but both with phenomenal talent which gave us one of the greatest rivalries and some of the most thrilling moments ever in sport.
In reply to captain paranoia:
I know he has. And I'm sure I've always been on the best of terms with him (or maybe not – maybe we've had some big arguments in the past? and maybe it's possible I may even have met him? I just can't remember.) Just how am I to know or remember all this, i.e. who he might be? Just how might I be able to do that? Am I, seriously, meant to keep some kind of complex chart of all these anonymous posters, with various columns speculating who they might be in real life? Of course not. Life is just too short. As to what he's said, 'pretty boy goody two shoes' seemed to me to be fantastically loaded, emotive language. I simply asked the question: just where had that level of hatred and/or authoritative judgement come from? I'm still a bit baffled by it, because it's not explained. The whole argument seemed to be contained in one short phrase: 'Coe was image.' I need to know a bit more about exactly what he means before passing judgement.
> The 'anonymous' thing? Again?
> Summo's been here years. He's not hiding. Address what he says, not what books he's read.
I know he has. And I'm sure I've always been on the best of terms with him (or maybe not – maybe we've had some big arguments in the past? and maybe it's possible I may even have met him? I just can't remember.) Just how am I to know or remember all this, i.e. who he might be? Just how might I be able to do that? Am I, seriously, meant to keep some kind of complex chart of all these anonymous posters, with various columns speculating who they might be in real life? Of course not. Life is just too short. As to what he's said, 'pretty boy goody two shoes' seemed to me to be fantastically loaded, emotive language. I simply asked the question: just where had that level of hatred and/or authoritative judgement come from? I'm still a bit baffled by it, because it's not explained. The whole argument seemed to be contained in one short phrase: 'Coe was image.' I need to know a bit more about exactly what he means before passing judgement.
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In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
At no point have I said I despise him, I just preferred Ovett (everyone had a favourite) and don't think he will be able to do much about the drugs or putin. As said by others he has held senior posts previously and changed nothing.
> You clearly despise Coe. Which begs the question: just where does that come from, and why? Just who are you? You remind me so much of so many (just about all) literary critics who've never written a book of their own, or film critics who've never made one film in their lives. What I'm asking is: just where does your Godlike judgement come from? I'd love to know.
At no point have I said I despise him, I just preferred Ovett (everyone had a favourite) and don't think he will be able to do much about the drugs or putin. As said by others he has held senior posts previously and changed nothing.
Post edited at 06:35
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
those who know me, will have known me as summo for at least 2 decades. Why does it matter, am I not allowed an opinion now, unless it matches yours?
> PS. Don't you realise just how bloody frustrating it is to see people hiding behind pseudonyms? And when you look them up you find out: 'Climb up to E3. Location: UK. Interests Outside Climbing: Kayaking, Caving'.
those who know me, will have known me as summo for at least 2 decades. Why does it matter, am I not allowed an opinion now, unless it matches yours?
In reply to Timmd:
I think it might change, Vancouver didn't work so well because of the mild weather, which means serious spending inland. Norway(and others) dropped out because of the IOC luxurious expectations and they said they didn't think the Norwegian public would want to be spending their taxes on things like Royal cocktail parties for the IOC committee and top sponsors. With the political change in Canada and I can't really see them going for it, unless the Olympics becomes more about the athletes and less about the sponsors & IOC executive.
> Canada seemed pretty keen on having the Winter Olympic?
I think it might change, Vancouver didn't work so well because of the mild weather, which means serious spending inland. Norway(and others) dropped out because of the IOC luxurious expectations and they said they didn't think the Norwegian public would want to be spending their taxes on things like Royal cocktail parties for the IOC committee and top sponsors. With the political change in Canada and I can't really see them going for it, unless the Olympics becomes more about the athletes and less about the sponsors & IOC executive.
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In reply to Robert Durran:
I would agree, and if you want to go head to head with putin and the doping, you would be better with Ovett's personality than Coe's. Coe has been almost at the top of athletic's management for sometime, so going one more rung up the ladder isn't likely to change anything.
I don't dislike Coe, but if people think he has the attributes to sort out all the problems in athletics, doping, Putin... I think they are mistaken. Whilst it's easy to laugh at putin when he does his annual top off parading every summer, he is still a very clever person, who has out witted the entire west several times in the past decade.
> I always liked them both. Just different personalities and running styles, but both with phenomenal talent which gave us one of the greatest rivalries and some of the most thrilling moments ever in sport.
I would agree, and if you want to go head to head with putin and the doping, you would be better with Ovett's personality than Coe's. Coe has been almost at the top of athletic's management for sometime, so going one more rung up the ladder isn't likely to change anything.
I don't dislike Coe, but if people think he has the attributes to sort out all the problems in athletics, doping, Putin... I think they are mistaken. Whilst it's easy to laugh at putin when he does his annual top off parading every summer, he is still a very clever person, who has out witted the entire west several times in the past decade.
In reply to summo:
I find the current demonization of Putin by the Western press quite risible.
As fas as the 'top off' thing goes, one can only imagine that it plays okay for Putin domestically. That's politics. And, indeed, reminds me a bit of the judo bouts between Coe (when he was an MP) and William Hague. If those were *purely* about training and keeping fit, they wouldn't have been so heavily publicised, would they?
> ... Whilst it's easy to laugh at putin when he does his annual top off parading every summer ...
I find the current demonization of Putin by the Western press quite risible.
As fas as the 'top off' thing goes, one can only imagine that it plays okay for Putin domestically. That's politics. And, indeed, reminds me a bit of the judo bouts between Coe (when he was an MP) and William Hague. If those were *purely* about training and keeping fit, they wouldn't have been so heavily publicised, would they?
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In reply to Robert Durran:
When these allegations surfaced this first reaction was to attack the media..... not a good start.
> In reply to Mike
> Why do you say that about Coe? To me he is all about substance. His achievements speak for themselves.
When these allegations surfaced this first reaction was to attack the media..... not a good start.
In reply to Rob Parsons:
without doubt, in the UK the public obsesses over an MP not having his tie done up properly, in Russia they look for different signs of strength etc..
> As fas as the 'top off' thing goes, one can only imagine that it plays okay for Putin domestically. That's politics. And, indeed, reminds me a bit of the judo bouts between Coe (when he was an MP) and William Hague. If those were *purely* about training and keeping fit, they wouldn't have been so heavily publicised, would they?
without doubt, in the UK the public obsesses over an MP not having his tie done up properly, in Russia they look for different signs of strength etc..
In reply to summo:
or bowing their head enough.......
> without doubt, in the UK the public obsesses over an MP not having his tie done up properly,
or bowing their head enough.......
In reply to Robert Durran:
His record at the IAAF isn't very impressive, remember he was a Vice President before he was elected President.
For the record, I was a Coe fan when he was an athlete, although probably because I was a bit young when Coe and Ovett were at there very best, it was Steve Cram who was my hero.
His record at the IAAF isn't very impressive, remember he was a Vice President before he was elected President.
For the record, I was a Coe fan when he was an athlete, although probably because I was a bit young when Coe and Ovett were at there very best, it was Steve Cram who was my hero.
In reply to The New NickB:
Just seen the John Snow interview with Coe, where he suggests that Coe as VP would be as culpable as Diack, and should therefore resign. But I get the impression that these bodies (IOC, FIFA, UCI, IAAF) are run on a pretty feudal system where challenging the king is somewhat futile and the only way to change anything is to toe the line until you get to the top.
Given that Coe spent most of his time as a VP (one of 4 I believe) organising the london olympics, it is plausible he won't have been party to the corruption. I don't believe he'll have been sat in an office next to Diack and wondering why there was a constant stream of Russians in the waiting room.
Just looking at the IAAF council - http://www.iaaf.org/about-iaaf/structure/council and only 3 of them are famous athletes (Bubka and Fredericks being the other 2). Coe may be a greasy politician, but his record on the track still commands respects. He is probably the man most likely to fix this mess.
Just seen the John Snow interview with Coe, where he suggests that Coe as VP would be as culpable as Diack, and should therefore resign. But I get the impression that these bodies (IOC, FIFA, UCI, IAAF) are run on a pretty feudal system where challenging the king is somewhat futile and the only way to change anything is to toe the line until you get to the top.
Given that Coe spent most of his time as a VP (one of 4 I believe) organising the london olympics, it is plausible he won't have been party to the corruption. I don't believe he'll have been sat in an office next to Diack and wondering why there was a constant stream of Russians in the waiting room.
Just looking at the IAAF council - http://www.iaaf.org/about-iaaf/structure/council and only 3 of them are famous athletes (Bubka and Fredericks being the other 2). Coe may be a greasy politician, but his record on the track still commands respects. He is probably the man most likely to fix this mess.
In reply to Chris the Tall:
Most likely to fix it from the line up in the IAAF Council, quite possibly, which I find quite depressing.
Most likely to fix it from the line up in the IAAF Council, quite possibly, which I find quite depressing.
In reply to Robert Durran:
I used to know Seb Coe a bit through work. He was without fail, exceptionally friendly, helpful and generally a good laugh to be around.
I used to know Seb Coe a bit through work. He was without fail, exceptionally friendly, helpful and generally a good laugh to be around.
In reply to Rob Parsons:
Don't forget he's annexed part of another country after agreeing not to attack them if they gave up their nuclear weapons, and state involvement is (extremely likely to be) behind the death of Litvinenko.
The number of critical journalists and dissidents who happen to have been killed or died, not forgetting that opposition politician fairly recently who was shot outside the Kremlin, it's enough to make you feel cold.
> I find the current demonization of Putin by the Western press quite risible.
Don't forget he's annexed part of another country after agreeing not to attack them if they gave up their nuclear weapons, and state involvement is (extremely likely to be) behind the death of Litvinenko.
The number of critical journalists and dissidents who happen to have been killed or died, not forgetting that opposition politician fairly recently who was shot outside the Kremlin, it's enough to make you feel cold.
Post edited at 12:33
In reply to kipper12:
At least we have a chance of sorting itout as Coe has played the political game to be the IAAF president. In football we just get laughed at becuase we do not play the politics right.
I suspect Coe has alot of hidden cred in Russia. After all he won his medals at the Moscow olympics despite the USA boycotting it and tThatcher saying they should not go. So he may have more allies there than we think.
At least we have a chance of sorting itout as Coe has played the political game to be the IAAF president. In football we just get laughed at becuase we do not play the politics right.
I suspect Coe has alot of hidden cred in Russia. After all he won his medals at the Moscow olympics despite the USA boycotting it and tThatcher saying they should not go. So he may have more allies there than we think.
In reply to Chris the Tall:
An interesting article on what athletics could learn from cycling:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/11/news/seven-things-track-and-field-ca...
An interesting article on what athletics could learn from cycling:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/11/news/seven-things-track-and-field-ca...
In reply to Tom Last:
Just wait until to the Russian heavies start getting on his case intimidating him , he will not be laughing then.
I can't take away from his achievements - nor would I want to, and I really don't envy him that job (despite the fact that I really don't like him either.)
I was suspicious of his reported 'business interests' during the run up to the Olympics , in all, I don't think he should be given the job, lets find someone that can be trusted completely .
Here is my list :-
(This page is deliberately left blank)
> I used to know Seb Coe a bit through work. He was without fail, exceptionally friendly, helpful and generally a good laugh to be around.
Just wait until to the Russian heavies start getting on his case intimidating him , he will not be laughing then.
I can't take away from his achievements - nor would I want to, and I really don't envy him that job (despite the fact that I really don't like him either.)
I was suspicious of his reported 'business interests' during the run up to the Olympics , in all, I don't think he should be given the job, lets find someone that can be trusted completely .
Here is my list :-
(This page is deliberately left blank)
1
In reply to Chris the Tall:
After what I've been reading about beetroot juice and its performance-enhancing properties, I think we can put it all down to borshch.
After what I've been reading about beetroot juice and its performance-enhancing properties, I think we can put it all down to borshch.
In reply to Chris the Tall:
They should fight! Let's consult Google to see who would win...
http://www.googlefight.co.uk/vladimir+putin-vs-sebastian+coe.php
No great shocks there :-D
They should fight! Let's consult Google to see who would win...
http://www.googlefight.co.uk/vladimir+putin-vs-sebastian+coe.php
No great shocks there :-D
In reply to Chris the Tall:
This seems a confused set of propositions. His record on the track says nothing about his ability to 'fix this mess.' On the contrary: a completely disinterested - but non-greasy - politician would probably be a much better bet!
> ... Coe may be a greasy politician, but his record on the track still commands respects. He is probably the man most likely to fix this mess.
This seems a confused set of propositions. His record on the track says nothing about his ability to 'fix this mess.' On the contrary: a completely disinterested - but non-greasy - politician would probably be a much better bet!
1
In reply to Timmd:
I'm not an apologist; however Putin is merely the current bogey man: the West always needs one. Sooner or later we'll make up with him, and move on to the next one.
Ukraine is complicated (!) However, Russia has only reacted to the situation so far as I can see: it didn't 'pick the fight.'
I'm not an apologist; however Putin is merely the current bogey man: the West always needs one. Sooner or later we'll make up with him, and move on to the next one.
> Don't forget he's annexed part of another country after agreeing not to attack them if they gave up their nuclear weapons ...
Ukraine is complicated (!) However, Russia has only reacted to the situation so far as I can see: it didn't 'pick the fight.'
In reply to Rob Parsons:
I think Litvinenko's killing and the alarm over it is probably more than the west needing a bogy man.
He's disliked and not trusted for very good reason(s).
I think Litvinenko's killing and the alarm over it is probably more than the west needing a bogy man.
He's disliked and not trusted for very good reason(s).
Post edited at 15:10
In reply to Rob Parsons:
Even though he's a tory, I don't think he simply in it for the money. And if it turns out he's been taking back handers to cover up doping, then his reputation as a clean athlete will be in tatters, and I rather think he values that quite highly. Yes, he's a brand ambassador for Nike, and all that that entails, but even so I think he loves his sport and the opportunities it's given him.
The velonews article reckoned he was Athletics equivalent of McQuaid at a time when a Cookson is required, but I don't think it's as simple as that. McQuaid's record - journeyman and banned from the Olympics for racing (under a false name) in South Africa. Coe has far more to lose, but also has a name that opens doors and has friends in all sort of places. People knew that McQuaid was just a puppet and could be ignored - whereas you would expect Coe to apply the same determination he had as a runner.
Then again his initial response was the same as McQuaid - shoot the messenger - so time will tell.
Even though he's a tory, I don't think he simply in it for the money. And if it turns out he's been taking back handers to cover up doping, then his reputation as a clean athlete will be in tatters, and I rather think he values that quite highly. Yes, he's a brand ambassador for Nike, and all that that entails, but even so I think he loves his sport and the opportunities it's given him.
The velonews article reckoned he was Athletics equivalent of McQuaid at a time when a Cookson is required, but I don't think it's as simple as that. McQuaid's record - journeyman and banned from the Olympics for racing (under a false name) in South Africa. Coe has far more to lose, but also has a name that opens doors and has friends in all sort of places. People knew that McQuaid was just a puppet and could be ignored - whereas you would expect Coe to apply the same determination he had as a runner.
Then again his initial response was the same as McQuaid - shoot the messenger - so time will tell.
In reply to Tom Last:
Yes, he always comes across as a nice guy (whatever you might think of his political allegiance). I am a bit baffled at the dislike some people have for him. I suspect it might just be an 'all Tories are slimy, evil bastards' mentality.
> I used to know Seb Coe a bit through work. He was without fail, exceptionally friendly, helpful and generally a good laugh to be around.
Yes, he always comes across as a nice guy (whatever you might think of his political allegiance). I am a bit baffled at the dislike some people have for him. I suspect it might just be an 'all Tories are slimy, evil bastards' mentality.
2
In reply to Robert Durran:
Of course the question isn't is Coe a nice guy or was he a great middle distance runner. It's will he stand up to Putin and is he the right guy to set the IAAF straight?
Of course the question isn't is Coe a nice guy or was he a great middle distance runner. It's will he stand up to Putin and is he the right guy to set the IAAF straight?
In reply to The New NickB:
I agree entirely. There might be reasons for believing that he is or is not the right man for the job. I hope he is. What I object to is the way some people seem base their feelings on an apparent mere prejudice against his manner or personality.
> Of course the question isn't is Coe a nice guy or was he a great middle distance runner. It's will he stand up to Putin and is he the right guy to set the IAAF straight?
I agree entirely. There might be reasons for believing that he is or is not the right man for the job. I hope he is. What I object to is the way some people seem base their feelings on an apparent mere prejudice against his manner or personality.
In reply to Robert Durran:
Oh rot. This thread morphed from a celebrity death match to questions of his suitability to lead the IAAF.
> I agree entirely. There might be reasons for believing that he is or is not the right man for the job. I hope he is. What I object to is the way some people seem base their feelings on an apparent mere prejudice against his manner or personality.
Oh rot. This thread morphed from a celebrity death match to questions of his suitability to lead the IAAF.
In reply to Mike Highbury:
I have been on a judo mat with Putin a few years ago. Even though I did not train with him (mainly as I am two or three weight classes above him) I have to say he was still quite good for a man his age.
CB
I have been on a judo mat with Putin a few years ago. Even though I did not train with him (mainly as I am two or three weight classes above him) I have to say he was still quite good for a man his age.
CB
In reply to cb294:
You are saying that you were within an ace of world peace and failed?
> I have been on a judo mat with Putin a few years ago. Even though I did not train with him (mainly as I am two or three weight classes above him) I have to say he was still quite good for a man his age.
You are saying that you were within an ace of world peace and failed?
In reply to Mike Highbury:
I don´t think attitudes to Putin and Russian politics on this forum are particularly well informed. Don´t have time to go into detail (which is why I give the other thread a miss), but to paint him as a cross between Stalin and Dr. Evil is missing the point by am mile.
CB
I don´t think attitudes to Putin and Russian politics on this forum are particularly well informed. Don´t have time to go into detail (which is why I give the other thread a miss), but to paint him as a cross between Stalin and Dr. Evil is missing the point by am mile.
CB
In reply to Chris the Tall:
So it looks like the IAAF is showing its teeth and it's round one to Coe.
So it looks like the IAAF is showing its teeth and it's round one to Coe.
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