UKC

I'm going to be spending a bit of time in bothies over the next month and was wondering what people recommend to take in for warmth. While obviously coal/wood will work this is quite a heavy option. Has anyone used 'fire logs' for this? There are a few brands available, they seem to last a long time but are fairly expensive.

Unless anyone can recommend a cheaper/relatively long lasting one then I will go with wood from petrol stations.

R

In reply to Roberttaylor:

http://www.poundstretcher.co.uk/value-firelog-by-drummer

In reply to Roberttaylor:

http://www.woofwoodfuel.co.uk/hotties-fuel-logs.php

I've used these in wood burners at home - I've found that they live up to the description on the website

In reply to Roberttaylor:

Last time I used a bothy my brother found a firestarter log. We took some ash wood from a felled tree a relative had in the shed with us which lasted well enough to keep the room warm while we cooked food and sat for a bit, the firestarter log really just helped get it started quickly. Wood is heavy but then we took enough for the night and to leave behind.

In reply to Roberttaylor:

I've found that firelogs are very useful for getting a fire going. In my opinion if you want a fire for more than an hour or two take a few kilos of proper coal with you. It burns slower and puts out more heat. Whatever you do don't take smokeless coal, it's often less than useless in the MBA standard issue stove.

Have a good trip.

In reply to Roberttaylor:

I like them. They're clean and easy to pack, not too heavy for what they give you, and will give you a better chance of getting driftwood/bogwood/other slow-burners to catch. 3 for a night is minimal though, so climbing/walking as a bigger group pays dividends.

In reply to Roberttaylor:

If you've got a petrol stove you could just leave that on. It will kick out a hell of a lot of heat, the fuel is dirt cheap and would almost certainly weigh less per unit of heat given out than wood, coal or fire logs.

In reply to Removed UserDeleted bagger:

Just a word of caution with coal, if the fireplace is not vented properly / has a properly functioning chimney then there's the risk of carbon monoxide poisoning. I've heard some horror stories with coal fires left burning at night silently killing a house full of people sleeping.

In reply to willjones:

Ventilation's not generally a big problem in bothies........

MBA bothies fitted with stoves always have carbon monoxide alarm, as per building regs.

In reply to Removed UserDeleted bagger:

Fair point about ventilation, but there are a lot of factors which determine whether a chimney functions correctly. I researched this when I got a wood burning stove installed in my house and it is far from straight forward:

http://static.hpba.org/fileadmin/factsheets/BestPracticesforWoodburning.pdf

In reply to willjones:

Useful document, ta. I've got a woodburner in my lounge and a solid fuel Rayburn in the kitchen. The house is circa 1880 and completely renovated 8 years ago. The company which fitted the stoves ensured that there is permanent airflow. I have three carbon monoxide detectors which I regularly test. They never go off in anger.

In reply to Roberttaylor:

In terms of heat per kilo carried, you'll be hard put to find a solid fuel that beats good coal. Anthracite is the best, though very hard to light, so take something else to get started.

Here's some rough figures for some practical and impractical fuels:
Reasonably dry peat: 10kJ/g
Lignite (really bad coal): 13kJ/g
Reasonably well dried wood: 15kJ/g
Bituminous coal: 20kJ/g
Meths: 27kJ/g
Anthracite (really good coal): 31kJ/g
Paraffin wax/candles: 41kJ/g
Diesel: 43kJ/g
Propane: 46kJ/g
Hydrogen: 120kJ/g

In reply to Removed UserDeleted bagger:


Very wise. CO is a silent killer, it is impossible to be too careful. I believe some campers were killed recently by putting a portable bbq inside their tent.
I hope I don't sound paranoid, just wanted to sound a word of caution, that's all!

In reply to Roberttaylor:

Fire logs are great but rather heavy. They will take the edge off the air. We used them in the Corrour in the Cairngorms last month and they dried out the hanging gear by the morning and kept the air fairly warm. They are just a bit heavy though.

In reply to Roberttaylor:

Its coal every time for me.Take your time and source some good stuff, some of the stuff you see just burns too quick and doesnt throw much heat out.Only thing with coal is it does take a good bit of time and effort to get it going. I normally take and use a full pack of fire lighters.I get mine from a merchents think its called new heat doubles.

In reply to Roberttaylor:

Don't bother with peat unless you have a team of porters to move it. Did a bothy trip a couple of years ago and the only thing I could get at short notice was a largeish pack of peak briquettes. It took the edge off the air but we ended up having to carefully ration it.

In reply to Removed UserDeleted bagger:


Yes, they will have been fitted but there's no guarantee that there will still be one there when you visit. The MBA is regularly having to replace ones which have been stolen or vandalised. This isn't a widespread issue but is a perennial one at certain bothies. It may be a case that the MO for a particular bothy is simply unaware that the CO alarm's missing or broken, or has yet to visit to fit a replacement - so there's no cast-iron guarantee that there will be one in place all the time in every single bothy fitted with a stove.

In reply to Roberttaylor:

If you're concerned about weight forget the wood. Maybe take some pine kindlers but you want to be going for a fuel with a much higher calorific value per kg. In theory the best thing on this front would be coke - pure Carbon (the Observatory on Ben Nevis was heated by coke stoves) but you might find it difficult to get hold of these days. BBQ charcoal would produce an intense heat also and would be easy to get going especially if you can scrounge some candle wax from around the bothy. The downside with charcoal (also pure carbon) is that it's bulky. Anthracite might work but unlike porous coke it doesn't have the very high service area, so to make up for this you need plenty of it and be sure of a good draw on the stove. Failing this some house coal would be fine.

Having said this there are probably now bothy maintenance officers pulling their hair out through fear of the stove grate being burnt through. Make sure you clean the ashes out beforehand and don't over stoke the stove.

There is a much lighter weight option: go down you local pound shop and see if you can get a small chip frying basket - ideally one that nests in with your pots. When cleaning out the stoves most folk through the cinders out with ash. The cinders in this case are coke & charcoal! Shovel the ash and cinders into you basket, riddle the ash out outside and hey presto, you have fuel for your fire! You can probably pick charcoal/coke out of the piles of ash you find surrounding the bothy. Don't worry if it is wet, it will still get going if you get the dry stuff going first.

Probably the best approach is a combination of the two. Excuse the technical explanation, I'm a engineer by training.

In reply to Roberttaylor:

I've been using these for bothy's recently and found them to excellent - http://www.homebargains.co.uk/products/8136-verdo-wood-long-burning-briquet...

They start very quick and put out a decent amount of heat! I think a lot of it will depend on the bothy itself though, I've seen us put a full bag of coal into a fire and get barely any heat out....

In reply to AndrewB47:

Grew up in a house heated by an aga and open fire. My dad always made sure to keep the cinders from the previous day's fire. Now all grown up, with an open fire in my flat, I do the same, raking the ash out but keeping the cinders.

Its also amazing how badly maintained fires / stoves can be at bothies, re cleaning out of ash and stuff. Last one I used needed a complete clean, completely clogged with layers of compacted ash.

In reply to AndrewB47:

Your right, coke will give out but its the through air that will let it down. it brill if you have time to get the flue hot and have a stove, not so good in a open grate [ some Baix have open grates draw from under the floor you wont see one in a bothie] and is also good for slow burning any one who has stopped at the Carlie hut in Newlanas and its pot belly will know.
It can be difficult to know what to do, and a cold flue on a cold night can be slow to slow to draw
if you know the fire and flue, you can match fuel to it. you spoke of house coal and this is a variable but good coal is easy to light and manage.
Anthracites have bean mentioned , this can be tricky get going but is ubiquitous if its not possible to mix with a soft coal.

Regarding supply, the only comment I can make is do not buy from Pearson Fuels Maple/ Hyde, I had short weight from them, and having seen them successfully prosecuted in Oldham Magistrates court, I now go elsewhere, Steve Eaton in Mossly/ Grenfield of Eaton fuels... however helpful as Steve is i think he will draw the line at delivering to bothies.

Tricks for lighting X3 news paper, 1x read it 2x screw up to put in boots [ do this over night but remove every so often and dry the paper, 3x light fire
Dry wood bake it at home in a low oven to dry don't over cook, seal into a air tight bag/ condom ...........and--------- do this every time you light your bothy fire and seal it for next time, you will carry dry [light] wood, ready to light.
Like coal woods have different properties when burnt, so pick your wood. Not to dense for lighting

MBNA stoves. I was on a work party some time ago and the stoves the MBNA were fitting in the borders was a Dowling and I don't think suitable for coal. a wood burner, but this was kielder. so yes MO will not be happy that having said the boiler house at Chorley Nick HMP had a moving chain grate with the upward airflow the under side was cool enough to touch.