UKC

Hi All,

Anyone got any recommendations for decent supermarket Malbecs and Bordeauxs?

My partner and I enjoy a glass of wine of an evening and like a Malbec or Bordeaux, whilst we have found some that we really like, it feels like we do a lot of trawling (and wasting money) through pretty average/poor wines to find something decent. It's very hard to tell from a bottle if it'll be decent and have even tried wine apps thats scan the label and bring up reviews but haven't found this overly useful either. Price seems to make no difference either - we've prefered a £5 bottle over a £7/£8 bottle many times.

Chateau Talmont is very nice and readily available in supermarkets. Also Monts & Vaux Malbec from Morrisons is extremely nice!

Any suggestions? Don't know enough about wine to really tell you any notes or particular tastes that we like & only really happy to spend £5 - £7.

Thanks,

ML

In reply to Malt_Loaf:

Personally I find a lot of supermarket red wine very unreliable. Spending 8-10 pounds in most supermarkets doesn't seem to guarantee me good quality. Call me posh but I do like decent wine. I find my local independent wine merchant or Waitrose is far more likely to see me getting my moneys worth. Which brings me to my next point, if you want good stuff in the first place Waitrose isn't actually that expensive IMO. Its mainly the budget stuff which is cheaper else where, and also where the quality is less likely to be as good.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

I do tend to agree - supermarket wine can be very hit and miss, we have certainly found this to be the case and wasted a considerable amount of money on poor wine. I guess a local wine merchant or waitrose would be more likely to yield reasonable value for money but there are some really nice wines out there for around £5 - £7 in supermarkets. For convenience sake this works for us, just grabbing a bottle after work or in our home delivary etc

We have done some trawling through poor wine but have found a few really good examples so hopefully others have too and can share them here..

Cheers!

In reply to Malt_Loaf:

Sainsbury's do a decent Cahors (Malbec grape) at around the £7 mark. Can't remember the name though.

In reply to Malt_Loaf:

Most definitely not Malbec or Bordeaux, but have you tried the Priorat wines from southern Catalunya? There are some cracking ones in Supermarkets, including the discounters, but expect to pay around £9-10 per bottle for 2011/12 vintage. They will keep. We've just laid a couple down for our golden wedding in 6 years time, however the biggest problem will be stopping us drinking them beforehand.

In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:

La Patrie Cahors? Someone's mentioned that to me before..

Might give it a try!

Thanks

In reply to Lord of Starkness:

Thanks,

Wouldn't normally spend that on a bottle but might look at one for over christmas etc

Any particular that you would recommend?

Cheers

In reply to Malt_Loaf:

I don't believe you will ever get consisitency at that price range even from the ones you like. As you have said it is total hit and miss and you would be better sticking to ones you have found. However, in theory it should become slightly easier as due to the success of Aldi and Lidl's wine, the main supermarkets are cutting back on the half price promotions to have a more stable choice - especially at your price range.

I also think you are more likely to get a decent Malbec than a Bordeaux at the cheaper end, Majestic do some crackers and you no longer have to buy 6 bottles.

If you liked white I believe you can get good value at that price range but from being in one of the clubs. I have been in one for nearly 20 yrs and I still by the £6/bottle cases of whites. I have very rarely had a bottle of white that I didn't enjoy. I tend to spend a lot more on red though so buy from majestic or independents.

In reply to coachio:

Thanks for this.

I wasn't aware that you could buy less than 6 bottles at Majestic Wines now so that could be worth considering, I would never really go out and spend £40 or more on a case of wine so it's quite appealing to be able to get a bottle of two.

Happen to know any of the Majestic Malbecs that you'd recommend?

We do like white, and agree you can certainly get better wines at the cheaper ranges than with red. We would have a bottle of white with a meal occasionally but we tend to prefer to sit with a bottle of red, some cheese and a film etc

Thanks - looks like we may need to look away from Supermarkets and when we do want to pick one up quick, just stick to what we know!

ML

In reply to Malt_Loaf:
>happy to spend £5 - £7.

What I find interesting is that if you take off the VAT and Duty on your £5 bottle of wine along with a retailer and producer profit margin along with production costs its hard to see that the actual wine costs more than pennies.

In reply to Malt_Loaf:

Bordeaux can be hit or miss even if you spend a decent amount. I'm a fan but have been disappointed on many occasions. My go to Bordeaux for good and cheap is Berry Bros & Rudd Good Ordinary Claret. It's £9 a bottle (so just over your budget range) but gets great reviews.

http://www.bbr.com/search/?text=good+ordinary+claret

I usually have a case under the stairs and just grab a bottle if we are popping around to friends, or give it out as quick gift. It's a safe pair of hands.

Agree with others above that Waitrose is pretty good for supermarket wine, and I did read that Aldi and Lidl have won lots of awards for their budget wines so probably worth a look..

In reply to Malt_Loaf:

I don't normally spend that much on wine either - but we've been to southern Catalunya so knew what to expect!

The ones in Aldi are from a numbered batch - so don't expect to see them on the shelves for long.
Sainsburys are pretty good also. I've not noticed Priorat wines in other supermarkets.

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:
Thanks for that - It does seem like with Bordeaux especially we'd need to spend a little more so would definitely give that a go, from replies on here it seems like we'd need to pay a bit more even to get a decent budget wine. Rather do that then £7.00 just to be disappointed.


In reply to Lord of Starkness:

Thanks, will have a look when we're next near an Aldi/Sainsburys!

ML

In reply to Malt_Loaf:

Why not give some 'Cotes de Gascogne' a try ? These ' Country Wines' have made fantastic progress and offer amazing quality for a very modest investment ! Always search for a bottle produced by an independant 'vigneron', your guarantee of authenticity.

In reply to Malt_Loaf:
That's the badger. The Malbec grape used in Cahors fell completely out of favour with French growers for years, but there's been a resurgence of over the last ten or so. I love the stuff. Remember: if it doesn't turn your lips, tongue and poo black (hopefully in that order), then it's not real Cahors.

In reply to Malt_Loaf:
I have just bought a wine from Sainsburys that we quite like. It is a Morador Malbec from Argentina at £7. It is Fairtrade as well.

In reply to Malt_Loaf:

This one is part of a mix deal, i.e - you have to buy 6, but it is superb - San Huberta malbec - 2013. They also used to do one called Lunta - not sure if they still do. The beefsteak is also quite good - about 7 quid if bought as a six.

I'd also try the cahors as others have said. If you want a good bordeaux - chateau peyranban (spelling?) is always worth a go. Try and get a cru bourgeois - normlly worth a punt and can be bought at the £9 - 10. These are a step up from your bog standadrd bordeaux. I know it's not quite in your price range.

In reply to Malt_Loaf:

I developed a taste for Malbec whilst in Argentina, problem is the Argentine Malbec that reaches the UK is generally expensive and not that good in comparison.

ALDI do a drinkable Malbec for £6 and are generally offer decent wine at very affordable prices. I did find something that compares favourably with stuff that was £5 a bottle in Buenos Aires, but that was £30 from a merchant. Out of my price range for regular drinking.

I like Booths if you are in the north, quality seems a bit more reliable than other supermarkets, certainly Tesco. Plus they often have a 3 for 2 on bottles over a tenner, which makes some really quite nice wine fairly cheap.

In reply to Malt_Loaf:

Funnily enough, I bought a bottle of Malbec in Tesco yesterday - for a fiver - and it was pretty ok. With the money I saved, I bought a big bag of chestnuts to roast and sat in front of the fire with both.

Basically, it was a Mendozan called Parra Alta.

In reply to Malt_Loaf:

Another vote for Booths or Majestic. At your price range I wouldn't touch any Bordeaux you can buy in the UK. Currently mainly drinking Spanish wine (non Rioja) from Majestic as they have had some astonishing value items recently (almost as good as stuff we'd purchased locally in wine merchants), much better value than the Malbecs (which used to be the best bargains at that price) and equally quaffable. I liked the Sainsbury Fairtrade Modrador mentioned above but its not a patch on some of the Spanish stuff in offers from Majestic I'm drinking at the same price.

In reply to Martin not maisie:

Will you stop winding us up with your idyllic lifestyle....drinking good wine, chopping wood, sitting in front of fires, roasting chestnuts.....for crying out loud....it's not even bloody cold yet, where do you live man?

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

Cornish coast. I know - it's a terrible place - but I endure.

If it helps, I don't get another day off for three weeks......

In reply to Malt_Loaf:

coop fairtrade malbec has always been very acceptable when I have bought it.

In reply to Malt_Loaf:

Thanks to all the replies! Sorry I've taken a while getting back to here.

In reply to Coachio: Thanks for the majestic suggestions, will have a look into them - seems like we're going to need to spend a bit more to get a nice Bordeaux, but I'm sure it's worth so had some good suggestions and will try a couple!

Seems like you can pick up Malbec a little better at the cheaper end and have made a note of suggestions and keen to have a look at some of the spanish suggestions too!

Thanks,

ML

In reply to Malt_Loaf:

I've stayed in Madiran the past couple of years and brought back some very moreish reds.

The real treat, however, (though it might not impress the OP), are the whites;
Pacherenc de Vic Bilh Sec - a proper mouthful in every sense of the phrase.

In reply to Tom Valentine:

Tesco have a very drinkable Madiran for £6 at the moment - not as good as you'd find in the Pyrenees, but good value by supermarket standards.

In reply to John2:

Hadn't realised it was only£6

In reply to Malt_Loaf:

Majestic wine are selling Argentinian Malbec at a 33% reduction at the moment. You will be spoiled for choice with the Bordeaux selection as well.
Someone above made a recommendation for Chateaux Peyrabon, a great wine but not cheap and same for picking Cru Bourgeois instead of your standard vin de pay or Grand vin de Bordeaux , worth paying the extra pennies for the much better quality.

In reply to Malt_Loaf: I know it's not answering your question directly, but why not join the Wine Society? £40 (I think) for a lifetime membership and if you're trawling the supermarket shelves to see what you like, you'll easily spend more than that on stuff you didn't really want.

I've only ever had one bad bottle from them (a Primitivo which was seriously acidic, not good) and they do a very nice society Malbec. If you like that, you might want to try their Zinfandel too.

Over at Waitrose, they do a very nice Paolo Leo Primitivo di Manduria which though expensive (£11ish) can be discounted down to within your price range when it becomes exceptional value for money. And I know it's neither Malbec nor Bordeaux but should appeal nevertheless.

T.

In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Being a Philistine and a tight Scotsman I rarely spend more than a fiver on a bottle!
Aldi does some good stuff. A nice French Malbec or Pinot Noir for well less than a fiver. Got to love it!
Or if you like a white wine for a change, try Mountain Vineyards Sauvignon Blanc from South Africa.
Also about a fiver in Tesco.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Hey, Posh.
You seem to be implying that Waitrose is not a supermarket.
Am I wrong?

In reply to Malt_Loaf:

Naked Wines do some astonishing Malbecs that work out at around £6-7 a bottle. You should be able to find an online discount code on a first case, which would be a bargain, and there's no commitment to join, although I found it hard to resist...

In reply to Malt_Loaf:

Some good replies on here but just wondering why you wouldn't be prepared to pay for a case of wine? Often works out cheaper in the long run and you get more consistency.

I'd second the Naked Wines recommendation. They're great for 'drinking' wines (ather then ones for special occasions) and are very reasonable if you use the discount codes.

Another option, though it is a bit more involved, is to take a trip down to Bordeaux and stock up. We went down in the summer, £100 ferry and then an 8 hour drive on the other side. Get into a Super U or equivalent down there and the €5-7 wine is head and shoulders above anything for a similar price in the UK. We had a lovely holiday and came back with several cases of outstanding wine all at 50% less than the equivalent in the UK.

In reply to Malt_Loaf:

Look for Mont Rocher Malbec. It's french,I pay £7.50 from my wine merchant. It'll beat a supermarket wine.

As for claret. I firmly believe you won't get any good claret in that price. I rarely buy Bordeaux/Beaune/Rhône due to what I think is an excessive mark-up on grand cru stuff, but again the wine merchants do have some bargain stuff and château Rousseau de sippian is highly recommended at mine. I bought a case for about £10 a bottle in their last bin end. I wasn't overly impressed.

As someone above has said, if you're close enough to Dover you can get over and pick up a bargain. Judging from your profile page, you're a bit too far north.

In reply to Malt_Loaf:

Thanks for the replies everyone: have taken note of some of the suggestions and will look out for them.

My partner and I were talking about this last night, not buying a case is pretty senseless considering we'd likely as not pay at least £40/50 on wine a month anyway, I guess it's just the paying it out in bulk feels a bit more painful for someone who is-with no exaggeration- extraordinarily tight. I detest paying money. Yet enjoy nice things. You see the problem.

Seriously though, the replies on here have been very useful and it does seem for quality and value for money something like majestic etc will work better in the long run and limit wasted money (which I detest more than spending it).

ML

In reply to Malt_Loaf:

re wasting money - I would suggest you've been drinking your bordeaux way too young. Keep an eye on which ones you like and which ones you don't and I bet you will see that you prefer the 2009s and 2010s, and dislike the 2011s onwards. Even bog standard claret needs a few years in bottle to sort itself out, and very often the supermarkets just sell it too young. A case in point is the Roc de Lussac that Sainsbury's sell - on release it's tough and tannic as hell, but after about two years it's actually pretty smooth and approachable. I drink some fairly serious wine, but I often grab a couple of these when I see them on offer and chuck them in the cellar - so I have a rolling supply of them coming back out a few years down the line. They are only fair value when reduced and combined with the 25% off discount, though, so be opportunistic. TTD Barbaresco is another from Sainsbury's that I rate, but again only on offer and only if you can leave it for a year or two.

I tried Naked but I think they're a bit Emperor's new clothes. There is real scepticism in the industry over whether they really are supporting up-and-coming winemakers, or just engaging in some clever rebranding. And of course they now own Majestic.

Seriously, do what a few others have suggested and join the Wine Society. It'll cost you £40 for a share (which you can hand on in your will!) - I know that will feel like pulling teeth to you, but spread that over the first 40 bottles and it cost you £1/bottle. And I absolutely guarantee you will find it a bargain in the long run. There is plenty in the £5.25 - £6.00 range for you to try.

As a starter, try their Bricco Rosso Langhe. It's £7.50, and they're selling the 2009 which is perfectly mature already. It will redefine what you think a cheap red wine should be like.

In reply to Cardi:

Yes, and this stuff was fantastic

https://www.nakedwines.com/wines/ocaso-gran-malbec-2012.htm

In reply to Jamie Wakeham:
I have read that, we've just never really known which wines to leave etc we could maybe take a couple of the supermarket ones we like and then leave them for a year or two as a bit of an experiment! How do you know if a wine will be mature or not?

This might sound stupid, but if a wine is young and does need a while to mature, will decanting it make the wine any better or is it a waste of time? Forgive me...I'm no wine expert.

Will check out the wine society, folk are starting to ask about what would be good christmas presents for us as a couple so might even suggest it

Cheers,

ML

In reply to Malt_Loaf:

Oh, crikey. Anything I write now is going to be massive generalisation, and anyone who knows anything about wine will be able to shoot holes in it.

But: in order of needing more time in bottle to become mature, red > white. Within red, Bordeaux > Rhone > Burgundy, Chianti, Nebbiolo > Rioja > Beaujolais, and French country variants like Corbieres or similar.

To look at Bordeaux in particular, you've got the right-bank (Merlot dominated) wines from St Emilion and Pomerol, and the left-bank (Cab Sauv) dominated wines from the Medoc and Graves. And also lots from between the two rivers (Entre-deux-mares, Cotes de Bordeaux, etc) which might try to ape either style. Typically the merlot wines will come around quicker than the cab sauv.

What you are looking for is some sort of balance between tannins, acidity, and fruit. Very roughly the tannins will dominate at first, and recede after some time (which can be enormously variable). So you are looking to catch it when the tannins have died back anough to let the fruit through, but not too far. For wines designed to be drunk early this might be a few years. I have stuff in the cellar I wouldn't dream of opening this side of 2030.

Problem is, the fruit also dies back. The tannin does get replaced by some complicated tertiary flavours, which some people love and some don't.

One of the best things about the wine society - they give you a drinking window for each bottle so you know what to experiment with!

Decanting - yes, this can definitely solve some of the early-drinking issues. For a youngish bordeaux I'd be looking at 4-8 hours in decanter.

Cheers
J

In reply to Malt_Loaf:
>



A good rule of thumb I was given is that for every year of age on the bottle give it at least one hour in the decanter before drinking it. The older the wine, the longer it needs to breathe.

The best age to open wine has been speculated over for many years. Some say Bordeaux's stop ageing once they are past 10 years old, Burgundy maybe 5 years, White wine doesn't age in the bottle so should be drunk within 3 or 4 years. There is no doubt though that the older the wine the more expensive the bottle so its worth stocking up on early wine and storing it for a few years to allow it to mature,

>

In reply to Jamie Wakeham:

That's really interesting/useful, do like the idea of being able to see a drinking window using the wine society as a guide. Would quite like to put a couple of bottles away for a while, would be quite exciting/interesting to see how they turn out. Could put ones away for occasions too e.g. anniversaries etc.

Might try decanting a bottle or two of the supermarket wines we've found to be ok, see what happens with them because they're 2012-2014 range so could maybe benefit from decanting. What about a young Malbec, would you decant for the same period of time?

Thanks again,

ML

In reply to Gone for good:

I'd be a bit cautious about that. It might be 'sort of true' in that most people drinking an older wine will be drinking something that is pretty robust, concentrated and tanic so will blossom with a bit of airtime. But time in bottle is just very slow exposure to air. An older wine might already be losing some of its fruit and aroma, becoming a somewhat darker and more leathery animal. In general, you decant old wines to deal with sediment, but you should do it carefully to preserve the wine, and taste regularly as it breathes. A wine that is at the end of its drinking window can be made quite flat by decanting untless done with care.

For young wines that you want to 'age', you can really bash the wine about. Pour vigorously and freely into a decanter, give it a good shake, and serve from a height - this can soften the tannins and help to bring out subtle flavours.

I would definitely agree with the Wine Society recommendations. It'll pay for itself in no time - amazing organisation.

In reply to Malt_Loaf:
Young Malbec - definitely a long decant. If you like that style, have a look for French Cahors - also from Malbec. Tannat is also fairly similar, and is a variety that went out of style but is now making something of a comeback and can be very good value.

...goes to check...

TWS has a Tannat at £6.75 from the Cotes de Gascogne which gets pretty good reviews.

Wanderer - I would take some of that advice with a pinch of salt. The aging times are probably right for just-above-basic level claret and burgundy, but probably over-ambitious for really cheap wines and not at all sufficient for mid- and top-level ones. Also very vintage dependant. Cru Bourgeois claret from 2000 is just about ready now, and the top cru classe from that vintage are nowhere near! OTOH 2003 was a very fast developing one and CB are probably past best with even tough Cru Classe spot on (bar, perhaps, the 1er and some 2eme cru which will still need time).

White doesn't age in bottle? Roughly true at the bottom end but not at all once you get into any sort of quality. I've just picked up some 1998 Corton-Charlemagne for pennies at an auction which I am very excited about!

Hamsforlegs is spot on about the decanting.

Edit - dealt with silly mistake about grape varieties.

In reply to Jamie Wakeham:

The wine society is okay if you know what you want, but it's a bit like buying from Screwfix rather than B&Q. You've still got to DIY it even if the materials are better.

A good wine shop will give you some pointers, and you're more likely to get a nice bottle first time. Never had a bad bottle from ours. We get free tasting evenings, and they're always very welcoming.

In reply to Jamie Wakeham:


I don't think it is correct to say any wine 'improves' with age, the wine certainly changes, but taste is a very difficult thing to quantify and what might have 'improved' to a so called 'wine expert' might be all but undrinkable to your one bottle a week punter. Indeed throughout our lives, taste changes and if it were possible to travel back to childhood we would be amazed at how differently things taste.

.

In reply to Pyreneenemec:

Hrm. I'm quite happy to allow that tastes differ, but when you're talking about massive agreement then I think you can call it improvement. For a red bordeaux, in its extreme youth there is going to be one hell of a lot of tannin and that's always going to recede with time. Not very many people like tannin as a dominant flavour. If you took two similar vintages, one with very little bottle age and one with a few years, then I'd suggest that a vast majority would prefer the older one - and with that sort of agreement level I think we can say it's 'improved'.

Sure there's going to be debate about how long you might leave it - the french think we leave our claret far too long, whereas we think they commit infanticide - and there's also a weird thing with some clarets and burgundies where they have a youthful fruit-driven phase, then shut down in middle age, then blossom again as the tertiary flavours come out. But I'm pretty confident that if you took a survey using a one-year-old and four-year-old bog-standard claret, then all other things being equal the older would win hands down.

In reply to Jamie Wakeham:

Yes re malbec and cahors, TWS also has a good amount of mid-range Madiran, which with a few hours of decanting can taste a) very nice, and b) like something you paid £50 a bottle for from Bordeaux or California. Euro malbec is different from the light, 'minty' malbec from the new world.

Also right about white wine that ages well, though you don't have to spend a fortune. Even an affordable villages level white Burgundy with a few years under the stairs can be gobsmacking with a Sunday roast.

Philip - good point about the guidance you get at a local wine store. On the other hand, I've found the Wine Society's newsletters and themed collections or mixed cases to be an excellent way of getting affordable good quality wine, and also of learning a lot about the character of an area/variety etc. I also think it is by far the most affordable way of drinking good quality stuff - I have a few really outstanding local merchants, but if I bought from them over TWS each time I'd be down by hundreds of pounds over the year without drinking anything fancier.

Mark

In reply to Cardi:

plus 1

In reply to Jamie Wakeham:








Worth a read. I hope your white doesn't disappoint.

http://www.winetrail.com/agingwine.html

In reply to hamsforlegs:

I got the impression that more expensive Madirans tend to contain more Tannat, some as much as 100%.

I find this a bit much.
The blends from Crouseilles, for instance, are easier drinking (Folie du Roi very nice).

Lovely area to stay, btw, especially if you were a cyclist.

In reply to Gone for good:
The author (who freely confesses to being an amateur, and is fairly baised towards American wines) does allow that top white burgundies will age for 3-7 years. I think he's out by a factor of four at least. And Corton-Charlemagne is one of the greatest white burgundies in existence - I'm reasonably confident.

I think we've got quite a long way from £5-£7 red wine, though!