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Anyone done it, and any particular tips?
Thinking about the South couloir and South East ridge, probably relatively early in the year, to avoid the couloir becoming a death-trap, but open-minded otherwise.
Thinking about the South couloir and South East ridge, probably relatively early in the year, to avoid the couloir becoming a death-trap, but open-minded otherwise.
In reply to Simon4:
I did the Shrekhorn Lauteraarhorn traverse a few years ago, descending by your described route. This was in July/August. I was pooing myself all day about the upcoming descent down the couloir as the guidebook suggested it would be a death trap later in the day. It was totally fine (suspect it would have been otherwise this year!). We did not see any rock fall or any sign of it. The ridge was quite nice. It would make a good ski mountaineering route I reckon, but the couloir/snow slope would be very tedious to climb up. The bivi hut is an awesome place to be - quiet, remote and comfortable. Bit of a slog back to the round mind!
Hope that helps. Do ask if there is anything else you want to know - I'll do my best to help!
I did the Shrekhorn Lauteraarhorn traverse a few years ago, descending by your described route. This was in July/August. I was pooing myself all day about the upcoming descent down the couloir as the guidebook suggested it would be a death trap later in the day. It was totally fine (suspect it would have been otherwise this year!). We did not see any rock fall or any sign of it. The ridge was quite nice. It would make a good ski mountaineering route I reckon, but the couloir/snow slope would be very tedious to climb up. The bivi hut is an awesome place to be - quiet, remote and comfortable. Bit of a slog back to the round mind!
Hope that helps. Do ask if there is anything else you want to know - I'll do my best to help!
In reply to bullwinkle:
Schreckhorn -> Lauteraarhorn traverse? Very impressive!
We had been vaguely considering the Laut -> Schreck traverse, on the basis that the couloir would be impossible, so the Schreck descent would be objectively safer. I suppose it depends on the year, as you say, I imagine it went pretty early on this year.
Certainly now thinking if ski mountaineering approach is possible.
Schreckhorn -> Lauteraarhorn traverse? Very impressive!
We had been vaguely considering the Laut -> Schreck traverse, on the basis that the couloir would be impossible, so the Schreck descent would be objectively safer. I suppose it depends on the year, as you say, I imagine it went pretty early on this year.
Certainly now thinking if ski mountaineering approach is possible.
In reply to Simon4:
Did it with 'the wife' in mid / late-ish July 2013 during a bit of a heatwave. We spent very little time in the actual couloir but instead wandered up a slightly loose rib to the left which took us pretty much to where the nice climbing starts on the summit buttress. Guardian will almost certainly be at the bivi hut and (if it's still Markus Brefin) he will give you pretty much step-by-step advice about where to go (you can see it all from the hut).
I wouldn't worry too much about having to do it earlier in the year, though skiing back to the Grimsel pass from the hut would be a lot easier than walking.... I have quite a few pics, email me if you want a look....
Did it with 'the wife' in mid / late-ish July 2013 during a bit of a heatwave. We spent very little time in the actual couloir but instead wandered up a slightly loose rib to the left which took us pretty much to where the nice climbing starts on the summit buttress. Guardian will almost certainly be at the bivi hut and (if it's still Markus Brefin) he will give you pretty much step-by-step advice about where to go (you can see it all from the hut).
I wouldn't worry too much about having to do it earlier in the year, though skiing back to the Grimsel pass from the hut would be a lot easier than walking.... I have quite a few pics, email me if you want a look....
1
In reply to Simon4:
I went to do the Lauteraarhorn in 2009 from the Schreckhorn hut (home of the Ogre... ) via the SW ridge. This starts at the top of the Gaag approach that is in common with the Schreckhorn. The night was one of those darker than dark nights and try as we might, we couldn't find the way on to the ridge. We had however tried to do the Schreckhorn a few years earlier but bailed when the weather got bad and so were familiar with the approach and so rather than lose lots of precious time we opted to do that instead.
On our descent from the Schreckhorn we sussed out exactly where the approach was and also noticed some very good bivvy sites in the vacinity, so that was going to be the plan for any future go at the Lauteraarhorn - suss it all out in the afternoon, bivvy there at the top of the Gaag and get a flying start in the morning. Advantages are 1) a much shorter walk in than to the Lauteraar Bivvy hut, 2) No nasty dangerous wet snow (apparently usually a waterfall) couloir and most importantly 3) no Ogre.
For various reasons we still haven't done it and probably never will now, but it would seem to me to be the best way. Easily combined with the traverse to the Schreckhorn too - I can't remember if you've done that yet...
I went to do the Lauteraarhorn in 2009 from the Schreckhorn hut (home of the Ogre... ) via the SW ridge. This starts at the top of the Gaag approach that is in common with the Schreckhorn. The night was one of those darker than dark nights and try as we might, we couldn't find the way on to the ridge. We had however tried to do the Schreckhorn a few years earlier but bailed when the weather got bad and so were familiar with the approach and so rather than lose lots of precious time we opted to do that instead.
On our descent from the Schreckhorn we sussed out exactly where the approach was and also noticed some very good bivvy sites in the vacinity, so that was going to be the plan for any future go at the Lauteraarhorn - suss it all out in the afternoon, bivvy there at the top of the Gaag and get a flying start in the morning. Advantages are 1) a much shorter walk in than to the Lauteraar Bivvy hut, 2) No nasty dangerous wet snow (apparently usually a waterfall) couloir and most importantly 3) no Ogre.
For various reasons we still haven't done it and probably never will now, but it would seem to me to be the best way. Easily combined with the traverse to the Schreckhorn too - I can't remember if you've done that yet...
Post edited at 21:39
In reply to jon:
Thanks Jon, Chris and others, will get back to some or all of you later today or this weekend.
I haven't climbed the Schreckhorn, though I have done the long, hard but spectacular walk to the hut with ogre, trying to get some fitness and aclimitisation. I did manage to do the Lenzspitz -> Nadelhorn traverse this Summer, though that was marred by the death of a German climber very close by, we started out for the Taschhorn -> Dom traverse but the weather changed to being pretty evil, so came down and climbed the Dom by its normal route, in the face of quite a bit of fresh snow and a strong, bitter wind. The point being that if we didn't like matters on the normal route on the Dom, we could stop at any point and turn around, on the Tasch -> Dom traverse, you are committed quite early on after the Taschhorn summit.
> For various reasons we still haven't done it and probably never will now, but it would seem to me to be the best way. Easily combined with the traverse to the Schreckhorn too - I can't remember if you've done that yet...
Thanks Jon, Chris and others, will get back to some or all of you later today or this weekend.
I haven't climbed the Schreckhorn, though I have done the long, hard but spectacular walk to the hut with ogre, trying to get some fitness and aclimitisation. I did manage to do the Lenzspitz -> Nadelhorn traverse this Summer, though that was marred by the death of a German climber very close by, we started out for the Taschhorn -> Dom traverse but the weather changed to being pretty evil, so came down and climbed the Dom by its normal route, in the face of quite a bit of fresh snow and a strong, bitter wind. The point being that if we didn't like matters on the normal route on the Dom, we could stop at any point and turn around, on the Tasch -> Dom traverse, you are committed quite early on after the Taschhorn summit.
In reply to jon:
Ah... I know what you mean and I know we've discussed this before, but there do seem to be ways of taming him. Not sure I can put my finger on exactly what it takes though, but I feel I should speak up for him.
> the Schreckhorn hut (home of the Ogre... )
Ah... I know what you mean and I know we've discussed this before, but there do seem to be ways of taming him. Not sure I can put my finger on exactly what it takes though, but I feel I should speak up for him.
In reply to bullwinkle:
So how hard is the traverse in the direction you did it? I imagine it makes a VERY long day after climbing the Schreckhorn from the hut?
> I did the Shrekhorn Lauteraarhorn traverse a few years ago, descending by your described route. This was in July/August. The ridge was quite nice.
So how hard is the traverse in the direction you did it? I imagine it makes a VERY long day after climbing the Schreckhorn from the hut?
In reply to Solaris:
How about just replacing him with pretty, friendly, helpful girls, as they have done with the Mischabel hut brothers?
> Ah... I know what you mean and I know we've discussed this before, but there do seem to be ways of taming him.
How about just replacing him with pretty, friendly, helpful girls, as they have done with the Mischabel hut brothers?
2
In reply to jon:
So that's at about 3200m then?
Presumably that does NOT involve the South Couloir at all, but Martin Moran describes the South West and South East ridge route as being loose and unpleasant, also complex.
> On our descent from the Schreckhorn we sussed out exactly where the approach was and also noticed some very good bivvy sites in the vacinity, so that was going to be the plan for any future go at the Lauteraarhorn - suss it all out in the afternoon, bivvy there at the top of the Gaag and get a flying start in the morning.
So that's at about 3200m then?
Presumably that does NOT involve the South Couloir at all, but Martin Moran describes the South West and South East ridge route as being loose and unpleasant, also complex.
In reply to Simon4:
Here's the camptocamp description. Interesting that it also suggests bivvying at the top of the Gaag: http://www.camptocamp.org/routes/137805/fr/schreckhorn-traversee-lauteraarh...
I can't comment on the solidity of the ridge, obviously, but it's fair to say that most people doing the S > L traverse from the hut would come down it so it can't be that bad - I watched several teams heading across the traverse from the Schreckhorn summit. They were all intending to spend another night at the hut. There are some good photos attached to the description. The first one shows you exactly the route from and back to the Gaag. You'll notice that before reaching the L's summit the route veers a long way right to gain the SE ridge (above the S couloir) and follows to the summit. The direct way goes at a slightly harder grade. The interest in going over right is that this is also the descent route back to the Gaag if you don't do the traverse and so it would obviously be easier to find in descent if you'd gone up that way.
Worth also reading the tale of woe here: http://www.camptocamp.org/outings/450007/fr/schreckhorn-traversee-lauteraar...
Here's the camptocamp description. Interesting that it also suggests bivvying at the top of the Gaag: http://www.camptocamp.org/routes/137805/fr/schreckhorn-traversee-lauteraarh...
I can't comment on the solidity of the ridge, obviously, but it's fair to say that most people doing the S > L traverse from the hut would come down it so it can't be that bad - I watched several teams heading across the traverse from the Schreckhorn summit. They were all intending to spend another night at the hut. There are some good photos attached to the description. The first one shows you exactly the route from and back to the Gaag. You'll notice that before reaching the L's summit the route veers a long way right to gain the SE ridge (above the S couloir) and follows to the summit. The direct way goes at a slightly harder grade. The interest in going over right is that this is also the descent route back to the Gaag if you don't do the traverse and so it would obviously be easier to find in descent if you'd gone up that way.
Worth also reading the tale of woe here: http://www.camptocamp.org/outings/450007/fr/schreckhorn-traversee-lauteraar...
Post edited at 20:30
In reply to jon:
Yes, that is the same route that Martin M is pretty down on. Can certainly see the virtue of launching from a high bivi though, the Schreck is a very long day, quite apart from an ogre.
I love the putting refuge in quotes in the account of an ascent - "refuge". Despite the reputation, indeed tradition, of grumpy Swiss hut wardens, this does sound way out of order. The hut should at very least have allowed them a bit of floor space and a couple of blankets, some guardians seem to forget that they exist for alpinists, not the other way around. This one does seem like a particularly bad example of the syndrome.
Yes, that is the same route that Martin M is pretty down on. Can certainly see the virtue of launching from a high bivi though, the Schreck is a very long day, quite apart from an ogre.
I love the putting refuge in quotes in the account of an ascent - "refuge". Despite the reputation, indeed tradition, of grumpy Swiss hut wardens, this does sound way out of order. The hut should at very least have allowed them a bit of floor space and a couple of blankets, some guardians seem to forget that they exist for alpinists, not the other way around. This one does seem like a particularly bad example of the syndrome.
In reply to Simon4:
Personally, I enjoyed the challenge, but he was pretty fearsome when we were cooking on his doorstep. And maybe the advantage of that is that if the guardiennes you propose were too friendly it'd be too much of a deterrent from getting out of bed early. (I hope everyone can see the tongue in my cheek.)
Must say, the traverse from S to L didn't look much like a romp when we looked across at it, and if there were to be any deterrent from leaving the hut at 02.00, the day would be very long indeed - or so we thought.
Personally, I enjoyed the challenge, but he was pretty fearsome when we were cooking on his doorstep. And maybe the advantage of that is that if the guardiennes you propose were too friendly it'd be too much of a deterrent from getting out of bed early. (I hope everyone can see the tongue in my cheek.)
Must say, the traverse from S to L didn't look much like a romp when we looked across at it, and if there were to be any deterrent from leaving the hut at 02.00, the day would be very long indeed - or so we thought.
In reply to Solaris:
They aren't normally THAT friendly (well not to me anyway, them being young enough to be my daughters might have something to do with that though. Not sure how they would react to strapping young alpinists).
The last time I was at the Dom hut, we had 2 nights booked, but said that we might not stay the second night. When we got down about 2 in the afternoon, one of the girls sat chatting pleasantly with us while we drank beer and said "just let us know if you are staying up or not, we will manage, no problem". No ranting harangue about how difficult it would make everything for them, how could they operate with that uncertainty. What kind of an attitude is that from a Swiss hut warden? I was shocked, shocked I tell you to see these fine old mountain traditions being so abused.
We then went down, which was a big mistake, we were totally wrecked when we got to the valley, 3050 m descent from the Dom summit, could barely crawl at the end. Should have stayed and come down in a relaxed fashion the next morning.
Looking at it, it seems pretty full on to me. Some of those gendarmes are real mini-summits in their own right, with quite hard rock-climbing. Very worthwhile, but looks pretty full on as a day, especially as there is no really easy descent off either mountain, while the traverse is presumably virtually inescapable once you are on it.
> if the guardiennes you propose were too friendly it'd be too much of a deterrent from getting out of bed early
They aren't normally THAT friendly (well not to me anyway, them being young enough to be my daughters might have something to do with that though. Not sure how they would react to strapping young alpinists).
The last time I was at the Dom hut, we had 2 nights booked, but said that we might not stay the second night. When we got down about 2 in the afternoon, one of the girls sat chatting pleasantly with us while we drank beer and said "just let us know if you are staying up or not, we will manage, no problem". No ranting harangue about how difficult it would make everything for them, how could they operate with that uncertainty. What kind of an attitude is that from a Swiss hut warden? I was shocked, shocked I tell you to see these fine old mountain traditions being so abused.
We then went down, which was a big mistake, we were totally wrecked when we got to the valley, 3050 m descent from the Dom summit, could barely crawl at the end. Should have stayed and come down in a relaxed fashion the next morning.
> Must say, the traverse from S to L didn't look much like a romp when we looked across at it, and if there were to be any deterrent from leaving the hut at 02.00, the day would be very long indeed
Looking at it, it seems pretty full on to me. Some of those gendarmes are real mini-summits in their own right, with quite hard rock-climbing. Very worthwhile, but looks pretty full on as a day, especially as there is no really easy descent off either mountain, while the traverse is presumably virtually inescapable once you are on it.
Post edited at 10:39
In reply to Simon4:
Well, what can I say?!
I'll try with this: after we got back to the hut after a 17 hour day on the Sirac, it was the wonderful French guardienne who filled our stomachs with food she'd kept back for us, and soothed our slightly bruised egos by telling us not to worry, a French party had been benighted on the same route the previous week. A memorable person for all the right reasons.
Well, what can I say?!
I'll try with this: after we got back to the hut after a 17 hour day on the Sirac, it was the wonderful French guardienne who filled our stomachs with food she'd kept back for us, and soothed our slightly bruised egos by telling us not to worry, a French party had been benighted on the same route the previous week. A memorable person for all the right reasons.
In reply to Solaris:
This Le Sirac? :
http://www.camptocamp.org/summits/37988/fr/le-sirac
You have my deepest sympathy to have suffered such a shocking breach of time-honoured and noble Alpine traditions.
The only thing I can say to moderate your suffering, is that I have increasingly been the victim of similar outrageous behaviour. This Summer, we went to the new (and stunning, with a fantastic panorama of high mountains, beautifully displayed by enormous picture windows), Monte Rosa hut to be positively welcomed by the staff there, in a friendly and open way. The guardian there actually had an entirely legitimate reason to complain, in that a mass booking had been made to take a third of the hut, then the people making the booking had neither turned up nor cancelled, with the result that he had had to turn down bookings from others. My partner suggested that he should ban the individuals concerned and he actually said "I don't want to be too harsh on Alpinists". It was disgusting. And that from a hut in Switzerland of all places! If you can't rely on the Swiss to be anal, rule-bound, narrow-minded and blinkered, what can you rely on?
Then to crown it all, when we got back, shattered after the very long ascent and demanding climb of both of the major tops of Monte Rosa, i.e. the Duffourspitz and Nordend, they were actually interested and enthusiastic, asking detailed questions about conditions and congratulating us!
Fortunately there are still enough hut wardens that maintain the rule of sullen, unhelpful, can't be bothered, what-are-you-here-for? hut denizens to reassure. I find the staff of the Albert Premier hut deserve a special mention in that regard also, surprisingly given that they are Italian, so normally good-natured and easy-going, the previous staff of the deplorable Torino refuge, who served over-priced, small amounts of food and absurdly expensive water in the most slapdash fashion imaginable with an air of barely tolerating even well-behaved guests. Sadly, that hut has now been substantially redeveloped and I hear that it has completely changed hands, so may have followed other huts in this deeply depressing and deplorable trend of being run for the climbers not the staff.
"The world is out of joint, o cursed spite
That ever I was born to put it right"
This Le Sirac? :
http://www.camptocamp.org/summits/37988/fr/le-sirac
> it was the wonderful French guardienne .... A memorable person for all the right reasons
You have my deepest sympathy to have suffered such a shocking breach of time-honoured and noble Alpine traditions.
The only thing I can say to moderate your suffering, is that I have increasingly been the victim of similar outrageous behaviour. This Summer, we went to the new (and stunning, with a fantastic panorama of high mountains, beautifully displayed by enormous picture windows), Monte Rosa hut to be positively welcomed by the staff there, in a friendly and open way. The guardian there actually had an entirely legitimate reason to complain, in that a mass booking had been made to take a third of the hut, then the people making the booking had neither turned up nor cancelled, with the result that he had had to turn down bookings from others. My partner suggested that he should ban the individuals concerned and he actually said "I don't want to be too harsh on Alpinists". It was disgusting. And that from a hut in Switzerland of all places! If you can't rely on the Swiss to be anal, rule-bound, narrow-minded and blinkered, what can you rely on?
Then to crown it all, when we got back, shattered after the very long ascent and demanding climb of both of the major tops of Monte Rosa, i.e. the Duffourspitz and Nordend, they were actually interested and enthusiastic, asking detailed questions about conditions and congratulating us!
Fortunately there are still enough hut wardens that maintain the rule of sullen, unhelpful, can't be bothered, what-are-you-here-for? hut denizens to reassure. I find the staff of the Albert Premier hut deserve a special mention in that regard also, surprisingly given that they are Italian, so normally good-natured and easy-going, the previous staff of the deplorable Torino refuge, who served over-priced, small amounts of food and absurdly expensive water in the most slapdash fashion imaginable with an air of barely tolerating even well-behaved guests. Sadly, that hut has now been substantially redeveloped and I hear that it has completely changed hands, so may have followed other huts in this deeply depressing and deplorable trend of being run for the climbers not the staff.
"The world is out of joint, o cursed spite
That ever I was born to put it right"
Post edited at 10:45
1
In reply to Simon4:
Thinking of Italians, some friends were storm-bound at the (?) Marco e Rosa after doing the Biancograt. Things got so bad that the guardian shared his finest wine with his inmates. My worst experience of Italians was arriving at the summit of Monte Viso to see that a couple of Italians had got there just before us and had hoisted the Union Flag and the Italian Tricolor for us - ahem! (Actually, to celebrate the 150th anniversary of the first ascent.) To make things worse, they generously smiled and shared their food with us.
If there's any more of this kind of behaviour, the AC should consider giving up reciprocal rights.
> This Le Sirac? :
That's the one - by the N Ridge.> You have my deepest sympathy to have suffered such a shocking breach of time-honoured and noble Alpine traditions.
Thank you - vive la compagnie des hautes montagnes! > If you can't rely on the Swiss to be anal, rule-bound, narrow-minded and blinkered, what can you rely on?
It's terrible, isn't it. The worst place I've been to was the Salbit hut - even the warden's children were tame. > They were actually interested and enthusiastic, asking detailed questions about conditions and congratulating us!
I'd suggest a formal letter of complaint to the SAC.Thinking of Italians, some friends were storm-bound at the (?) Marco e Rosa after doing the Biancograt. Things got so bad that the guardian shared his finest wine with his inmates. My worst experience of Italians was arriving at the summit of Monte Viso to see that a couple of Italians had got there just before us and had hoisted the Union Flag and the Italian Tricolor for us - ahem! (Actually, to celebrate the 150th anniversary of the first ascent.) To make things worse, they generously smiled and shared their food with us.
If there's any more of this kind of behaviour, the AC should consider giving up reciprocal rights.
> "The world is out of joint, o cursed spite
> That ever I was born to put it right"
Excellent - my motto too! Whose words?> That ever I was born to put it right"
In reply to Solaris:
Italians are dreadful.
I soloed the North face of Lyskamm, only to be greeted on the summit by a friendly cheer by 2 Italians doing the ridge traverse with their guide (arguably a better, more varied route than the uniform face), who was well impressed that I had been in London 3 days previously. They set off down the (very narrow and precipitous), South ridge before me, but I soon caught up with them. The guide had a couple of words and he and the clients stepped down, kicked steps in the snow and politely waited for me to pass. I did, and then collected a frightened German lower down the descent. Despicable.
Then when I climbed the Dent du Geant with an American, we got back to the cable car station quite late, wondering if it was still running, only to find it crammed to the brim with tourists, mostly Italian. We were tired and thirsty and hungry and wanted to get down fast, so my partner, using his very few words of foreign, given the well-known language skills of that nation, shouted out :
"Priorité aux Alpinists!"
Now if they had been Germans or Swiss, they might have taken offence at this and given us a rough reception, but the Italians thought this a great joke to liven up the long hours of waiting, collapsed in laughter and patted him on the back and shook his hand warmly. Didn't let us through of course. Then they all started shouting "bambino, bambino" and a young child was passed from Italian man to Italian man, above the heads of the crowd, to be followed, surprisingly, by his mother transferred by a similar method, to catch the next lift down. Father tried to join them as a family group and was sternly told (as far as my limited Italian could tell), to be a man, wait his turn and not let the side down. The result of this was that when we finally got down, we saw mother and baby waiting disconsolately in the cable car station car park, where they had been for several hours, given that mama seemed to have neither car keys nor any money.
As to the moto, the gloomy Dane sir, the gloomy Dane.
Italians are dreadful.
I soloed the North face of Lyskamm, only to be greeted on the summit by a friendly cheer by 2 Italians doing the ridge traverse with their guide (arguably a better, more varied route than the uniform face), who was well impressed that I had been in London 3 days previously. They set off down the (very narrow and precipitous), South ridge before me, but I soon caught up with them. The guide had a couple of words and he and the clients stepped down, kicked steps in the snow and politely waited for me to pass. I did, and then collected a frightened German lower down the descent. Despicable.
Then when I climbed the Dent du Geant with an American, we got back to the cable car station quite late, wondering if it was still running, only to find it crammed to the brim with tourists, mostly Italian. We were tired and thirsty and hungry and wanted to get down fast, so my partner, using his very few words of foreign, given the well-known language skills of that nation, shouted out :
"Priorité aux Alpinists!"
Now if they had been Germans or Swiss, they might have taken offence at this and given us a rough reception, but the Italians thought this a great joke to liven up the long hours of waiting, collapsed in laughter and patted him on the back and shook his hand warmly. Didn't let us through of course. Then they all started shouting "bambino, bambino" and a young child was passed from Italian man to Italian man, above the heads of the crowd, to be followed, surprisingly, by his mother transferred by a similar method, to catch the next lift down. Father tried to join them as a family group and was sternly told (as far as my limited Italian could tell), to be a man, wait his turn and not let the side down. The result of this was that when we finally got down, we saw mother and baby waiting disconsolately in the cable car station car park, where they had been for several hours, given that mama seemed to have neither car keys nor any money.
As to the moto, the gloomy Dane sir, the gloomy Dane.
Post edited at 16:16
4
In reply to Simon4:
Nice yarns. Thanks for sharing.
Should have guessed the gloomy Dane, but he's not the kind of person you expect to pop up on UKC. Must read him again... BUT,well, that's what I had written, then I realized that you meant the fictional forerunner of another gloomy Dane for whom they are also apt...
Nice yarns. Thanks for sharing.
Should have guessed the gloomy Dane, but he's not the kind of person you expect to pop up on UKC. Must read him again... BUT,well, that's what I had written, then I realized that you meant the fictional forerunner of another gloomy Dane for whom they are also apt...
In reply to Solaris:
Yes, as in "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark".
I shared a yarn, or rather tale of Alpine climbing terror with the girl I climbed the Brunegghorn North face with. With a patronising patience born of years of calming mental health patients, she smiled sweetly and said "that's a nice story - I've only heard that one 3 times. So much fresher than the ones I've heard 8 or 9 times". I decided it was more useful to give her the benefit of my climbing wisdom, so regaled her with various wise aphorisms and lessons.
Her eyes started to flicker shut, clearly because we had got up so early that morning to climb the face - obviously this could not be because my nuggets of priceless experience were not QUITE as fascinating as any normal observer would assume.
In order to spare her from the misfortune of missing any of these pearls, I started to speak progressively more LOUDLY and EMPHATICALLY. The intense effort of concentrating on my words so as not to lose even a drop of the precious insight seemed to distort her face into a grimace, almost as though she were in pain. Finally I thundered :
"Never, ever relax on an Alpine route - until you are sitting on the terrace of the hut, with a beer in your hand".
Coincidentally, even as I spoke, I was sitting at a hut terrace table, with 2 beer glasses in front of me. The beer having been already drunk, their presence was by then rather redundant, except to illustrate the point. Being a generous soul, I decided to return them inside to help the staff, not noticing my own rucksack in front of my feet, with its straps rather chaotically spread out in front. I stood up with the 2 glasses, then with perfect but unfortunately entirely inadvertent comic timing, my feet wrapped themselves around the straps and I fell painfully full length on the hard flagstones, shattering both glasses and nearly putting out my eyes on them in the process.
She regarded the scene with some alarm, giving a sharp intake of breath and paused for a moment of shocked silence. Then she realised I had not actually impaled my eyes, and relaxed somewhat.
I lay there flat on my face in no inconsiderable amount of pain, with the sound of loud, uncontrollable peals of unceasing laughter echoing in my ears.
Yes, as in "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark".
I shared a yarn, or rather tale of Alpine climbing terror with the girl I climbed the Brunegghorn North face with. With a patronising patience born of years of calming mental health patients, she smiled sweetly and said "that's a nice story - I've only heard that one 3 times. So much fresher than the ones I've heard 8 or 9 times". I decided it was more useful to give her the benefit of my climbing wisdom, so regaled her with various wise aphorisms and lessons.
Her eyes started to flicker shut, clearly because we had got up so early that morning to climb the face - obviously this could not be because my nuggets of priceless experience were not QUITE as fascinating as any normal observer would assume.
In order to spare her from the misfortune of missing any of these pearls, I started to speak progressively more LOUDLY and EMPHATICALLY. The intense effort of concentrating on my words so as not to lose even a drop of the precious insight seemed to distort her face into a grimace, almost as though she were in pain. Finally I thundered :
"Never, ever relax on an Alpine route - until you are sitting on the terrace of the hut, with a beer in your hand".
Coincidentally, even as I spoke, I was sitting at a hut terrace table, with 2 beer glasses in front of me. The beer having been already drunk, their presence was by then rather redundant, except to illustrate the point. Being a generous soul, I decided to return them inside to help the staff, not noticing my own rucksack in front of my feet, with its straps rather chaotically spread out in front. I stood up with the 2 glasses, then with perfect but unfortunately entirely inadvertent comic timing, my feet wrapped themselves around the straps and I fell painfully full length on the hard flagstones, shattering both glasses and nearly putting out my eyes on them in the process.
She regarded the scene with some alarm, giving a sharp intake of breath and paused for a moment of shocked silence. Then she realised I had not actually impaled my eyes, and relaxed somewhat.
I lay there flat on my face in no inconsiderable amount of pain, with the sound of loud, uncontrollable peals of unceasing laughter echoing in my ears.
Post edited at 20:10
5
In reply to Simon4:
Hi Simon,
Sorry for slow reply. Yep, a very long day. We set off from the hut at 3.30am and eventually got to the Aar bivi hut at 8pm. There's probably nothing harder than HS, and if you stick to the crest the rock quality is good. To complete the traverse in the day we had to move together for pretty much the whole day. The traverse in that direction is characterised by a series of fins. You climb up the steep sides, and down the more slabby sides. I have to say that I had had enough by the end though, fully concentrating for such a long period! Let me know if you would like any more details.
Cheers, Tim.
> So how hard is the traverse in the direction you did it? I imagine it makes a VERY long day after climbing the Schreckhorn from the hut?
Hi Simon,
Sorry for slow reply. Yep, a very long day. We set off from the hut at 3.30am and eventually got to the Aar bivi hut at 8pm. There's probably nothing harder than HS, and if you stick to the crest the rock quality is good. To complete the traverse in the day we had to move together for pretty much the whole day. The traverse in that direction is characterised by a series of fins. You climb up the steep sides, and down the more slabby sides. I have to say that I had had enough by the end though, fully concentrating for such a long period! Let me know if you would like any more details.
Cheers, Tim.
In reply to bullwinkle:
Tim
A very impressive achievement on your part!
HS for a sustained period, moving together all the time, at great altitude is very wearing and you did well to keep it controlled. This Summer in the Valais Alps, we certainly found that the rule of "keep very strictly to the absolute ridge crest, and don't be tempted by lower bypasses" really held true there, even 5 or 10 m below sound but often quite hard climbing, you were in a world of untrustworthy choss. I still have the scars as a result.
I don't know if we will attempt the traverse next Summer, but this has been very helpful to get an idea of what it is about. To be honest, if I get both of them done by any route, I will be very happy. We were all geared up for the Taschhorn -> Dom traverse this year, having done the Weissmeis N Ridge and Lenzspitz -> Nadelhorn traverse, but the weather crapped out and we wanted a route where we could just turn round if it got too bad and go down, not one of these very committing traverses. So we just climbed the Dom by the voie normalle, which was quite challenging in itself in fresh snow and a bitter wind.
Tim
A very impressive achievement on your part!
HS for a sustained period, moving together all the time, at great altitude is very wearing and you did well to keep it controlled. This Summer in the Valais Alps, we certainly found that the rule of "keep very strictly to the absolute ridge crest, and don't be tempted by lower bypasses" really held true there, even 5 or 10 m below sound but often quite hard climbing, you were in a world of untrustworthy choss. I still have the scars as a result.
I don't know if we will attempt the traverse next Summer, but this has been very helpful to get an idea of what it is about. To be honest, if I get both of them done by any route, I will be very happy. We were all geared up for the Taschhorn -> Dom traverse this year, having done the Weissmeis N Ridge and Lenzspitz -> Nadelhorn traverse, but the weather crapped out and we wanted a route where we could just turn round if it got too bad and go down, not one of these very committing traverses. So we just climbed the Dom by the voie normalle, which was quite challenging in itself in fresh snow and a bitter wind.
Post edited at 22:35
In reply to Simon4:
Thought this might interest you: http://www.camptocamp.org/forums/viewtopic.php?pid=2142698#p2142698
Thought this might interest you: http://www.camptocamp.org/forums/viewtopic.php?pid=2142698#p2142698
2
In reply to Simon4:
Yeah, the time is out of joint. Alpine huts are not for Apinists. Much better bivvy. And I've been saying that for years.
Yeah, the time is out of joint. Alpine huts are not for Apinists. Much better bivvy. And I've been saying that for years.
Post edited at 22:24
In reply to jcw:
"Things fall apart"
Especially the rock on ridges in the Swiss Alps, where the falling apart is frequently done with you on them, and "sound rock" means it is in boulders, not powder.
Especially Swiss ones, though some disturbing trends have recently been creeping in, to undermine these time-honoured traditions.
> the time is out of joint.
"Things fall apart"
Especially the rock on ridges in the Swiss Alps, where the falling apart is frequently done with you on them, and "sound rock" means it is in boulders, not powder.
> Alpine huts are not for Apinists.
Especially Swiss ones, though some disturbing trends have recently been creeping in, to undermine these time-honoured traditions.
In reply to jon:
Thanks, that IS interesting.
Striking that although they had gone to the top of the Gaag, i.e. by their own account 900 m above the Schreckhorn hut, there seemed to be quite a lot of head torches ahead of them when they started off. It seems unlikely that all those people had bivied, so presumably they had come from the hut below and passed the bivying party. Which slightly takes away the point of bivying.
On the face of it, not having to climb the Gaag in the dark and being 900m higher is quite an advantage, not to mention the well known character of the hut warden. On the other hand, you already have a long hut approach to the Schreckhorn hut, and then a further 900 vertical metres, all WITH bivy gear, so that is pretty hard work.
Food for thought for next year anyway. Interesting to get an idea of the sort of terrain on the route, at any rate the normal route on the Schreckhorn.
> Thought this might interest you
Thanks, that IS interesting.
Striking that although they had gone to the top of the Gaag, i.e. by their own account 900 m above the Schreckhorn hut, there seemed to be quite a lot of head torches ahead of them when they started off. It seems unlikely that all those people had bivied, so presumably they had come from the hut below and passed the bivying party. Which slightly takes away the point of bivying.
On the face of it, not having to climb the Gaag in the dark and being 900m higher is quite an advantage, not to mention the well known character of the hut warden. On the other hand, you already have a long hut approach to the Schreckhorn hut, and then a further 900 vertical metres, all WITH bivy gear, so that is pretty hard work.
Food for thought for next year anyway. Interesting to get an idea of the sort of terrain on the route, at any rate the normal route on the Schreckhorn.
Post edited at 22:45
In reply to Simon4:
Well the flat of the glacier is about 2600m where you leave it to go up to the Gaag. The bivvy area at the top of the Gaag seemed to me to be about 3200m, so perhaps more like 600m, not 900. I think they probably overslept or underestimated the get-up time in the hut to have had all those folk walk past them while they were still asleep! Despite the extra couple of hours and despite the extra weight of bivvy stuff, I still think that's what I'd do.
Well the flat of the glacier is about 2600m where you leave it to go up to the Gaag. The bivvy area at the top of the Gaag seemed to me to be about 3200m, so perhaps more like 600m, not 900. I think they probably overslept or underestimated the get-up time in the hut to have had all those folk walk past them while they were still asleep! Despite the extra couple of hours and despite the extra weight of bivvy stuff, I still think that's what I'd do.
In reply to Simon4:
Swiss huts. Yes, just to remind you of how things used to be when they were run properly. Schonbiel hut. No one there but when we arrived the warden tried to refuse us entry for not booking, despite the fact that there were three members of the Everest team, including no less than John Hunt. There was of course no telephone for us to use.
Monte Rosa hut. We were going for the Lyskamm N Face which is quite a long approach. But the Warden wouldn't let us out any earlier than the permitted time for the Monte Rosa standard route.
More recently, a couple of friends of mine had done the Findteraarhorn N Face and arrived back down at the hut after a very hard and rather exciting day in the conditions. The warden did his best to prevent them from coming in on the grounds they had not booked.
Those were the days my friend...
Swiss huts. Yes, just to remind you of how things used to be when they were run properly. Schonbiel hut. No one there but when we arrived the warden tried to refuse us entry for not booking, despite the fact that there were three members of the Everest team, including no less than John Hunt. There was of course no telephone for us to use.
Monte Rosa hut. We were going for the Lyskamm N Face which is quite a long approach. But the Warden wouldn't let us out any earlier than the permitted time for the Monte Rosa standard route.
More recently, a couple of friends of mine had done the Findteraarhorn N Face and arrived back down at the hut after a very hard and rather exciting day in the conditions. The warden did his best to prevent them from coming in on the grounds they had not booked.
Those were the days my friend...
Post edited at 13:54
In reply to jcw:
Shocking to say, the last time I was at the Schonbiel hut, they were very nice and friendly. But then I think they were Dutch, so you can't expect any better. At the (new and very stylish), Monte Rosa hut this Summer, the guardian was conciliatory, reasonable and pleasant! When he actually had quite a good reason for being very annoyed, block booking made, party did not turn up or inform him of cancellation.
Fings aint wot they used to be!
Shocking to say, the last time I was at the Schonbiel hut, they were very nice and friendly. But then I think they were Dutch, so you can't expect any better. At the (new and very stylish), Monte Rosa hut this Summer, the guardian was conciliatory, reasonable and pleasant! When he actually had quite a good reason for being very annoyed, block booking made, party did not turn up or inform him of cancellation.
Fings aint wot they used to be!
In reply to jcw:
I suppose the real thing about the old style Swiss guardians is that they seemed to actively HATE Alpinists, and if they could do something that would increase their chance of dying, they would cheerfully do so, even when it was of no objective benefit to them.
I suppose the real thing about the old style Swiss guardians is that they seemed to actively HATE Alpinists, and if they could do something that would increase their chance of dying, they would cheerfully do so, even when it was of no objective benefit to them.
In reply to Simon4:
This has been an absolute gem of a thread... Thanks everyone for putting a smile on my face after a trying day!
This has been an absolute gem of a thread... Thanks everyone for putting a smile on my face after a trying day!
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
Damn you sir, that puts yet more pressure on me to actually climb the damn thing.
Or "things" in fact, given that I have not climbed the Schreckhorn either.
Damn you sir, that puts yet more pressure on me to actually climb the damn thing.
Or "things" in fact, given that I have not climbed the Schreckhorn either.
In reply to Simon4:
The people at the Schonbiel hut are definitely Swiss. They were related to the owner of the small pension that I stayed in in Zermatt.
The people at the Schonbiel hut are definitely Swiss. They were related to the owner of the small pension that I stayed in in Zermatt.
In reply to Removed UserMike Rhodes:
Nice Swiss? You'll be claiming to have met interesting Belgians next!
Is doomsday near?
Nice Swiss? You'll be claiming to have met interesting Belgians next!
Is doomsday near?
In reply to Simon4:
Come on now! Hugo the guardian at the refuge at Trift is really nice and if you are with a group, you can pre order freshly made apple pie and cream AND he will play his Swiss horn!!!
Come on now! Hugo the guardian at the refuge at Trift is really nice and if you are with a group, you can pre order freshly made apple pie and cream AND he will play his Swiss horn!!!
In reply to Removed UserMike Rhodes:
Glad to see that you are at least not claiming that the Belgians are interesting, any of them - equivalent to discussing how to store dry water, or the flight envelope of pigs, so there are some limits to your fanciful notions.
Speaking of porcines, I seem to have a vague memory of the Trift hotel, from many years ago, watching a rather comely Germanic waitress chasing a pet pig round the tables, trying, totally ineffectually, to get it to behave itself and go where-ever it was supposed to and not to beg for scraps off the customers. No chance of this working, but the attempt was good entertainment for the somewhat lascivious British guests, in those thoroughly politically incorrect days.
The old saw about not wrestling a pig was very vividly illustrated that day.
Glad to see that you are at least not claiming that the Belgians are interesting, any of them - equivalent to discussing how to store dry water, or the flight envelope of pigs, so there are some limits to your fanciful notions.
Speaking of porcines, I seem to have a vague memory of the Trift hotel, from many years ago, watching a rather comely Germanic waitress chasing a pet pig round the tables, trying, totally ineffectually, to get it to behave itself and go where-ever it was supposed to and not to beg for scraps off the customers. No chance of this working, but the attempt was good entertainment for the somewhat lascivious British guests, in those thoroughly politically incorrect days.
The old saw about not wrestling a pig was very vividly illustrated that day.
Post edited at 20:34
In reply to Simon4:
There are many genial, hospitable and obliging people in Switzerland.
It's just that most of them are in the Ticino, and are basically Italian.
There are many genial, hospitable and obliging people in Switzerland.
It's just that most of them are in the Ticino, and are basically Italian.
In reply to streapadair:
Yes, I noticed on trips to the Engandine that the Swiss become almost human due to the Italian influence, while because they are Swiss, things still work exactly as they are supposed to.
But I mustn't be too rude about the Swiss, I still have 4 4000m peaks to climb there and they might not let me back into the country if I am not careful. And that is in the Switzer-deutsche cantons as well.
Of if they do allow me in, they will charge me a ridiculously large amount for everything. Hang on, they do that anyway, to everyone.
Yes, I noticed on trips to the Engandine that the Swiss become almost human due to the Italian influence, while because they are Swiss, things still work exactly as they are supposed to.
But I mustn't be too rude about the Swiss, I still have 4 4000m peaks to climb there and they might not let me back into the country if I am not careful. And that is in the Switzer-deutsche cantons as well.
Of if they do allow me in, they will charge me a ridiculously large amount for everything. Hang on, they do that anyway, to everyone.
Post edited at 20:48
In reply to Simon4:
It's not all doom and gloom!
Cheap:
Annual motorway pass at 40 CHF
Macbooks and other products from that manufacturer are up to 15% cheaper in Switzerland compared to UK and France along with most other electronics/ mobiles etc (vat in Switzerland being just 8%)
Great deals for young kids at Swiss ski resorts
It's not all doom and gloom!
Cheap:
Annual motorway pass at 40 CHF
Macbooks and other products from that manufacturer are up to 15% cheaper in Switzerland compared to UK and France along with most other electronics/ mobiles etc (vat in Switzerland being just 8%)
Great deals for young kids at Swiss ski resorts
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