UKC

I'm looking for a pair of shoes/boots suitable for walking and grade 1 scrambling. I've got a pair of El Caps but am looking for something lighter weight for speed. Not quite fell running but almost. I particularly want them to be (relatively) secure on long steep wet-grass descents.

I picked up a pair of Walsh Extreme PBs yesterday but getting them home and wearing them round the house a bit they seem a bit low on volume (they feel more like rockboots than walking boots).

So... questions:

How tight should fellrunning style shoes be (ranging
from rock shoes to walking boots)?

Does anyone know of any alternatives to the Walsh's
which will suit people with spade-like feet?

In reply to Robbie H: Waslhes should be pretty tight particularly around the heel so they stay on well when contouring and running through deep bog.

Alternative fell shoes include the new balance rx and the new mudroc shoes.

In reply to Robbie H:

Depends on what you're happy with to a large extent - me, I'm happy with any pair of well-fitting trainers that have a decent degree of tread on the sole. No problems scrambling in them. The last couple of pairs have been TNF, but that has as much do with them being sold off cheap as anything else. Grip probably doesn't match Walshs for wet grass, but I've never had huge problems.

For fit - you might find Montrails suit your feet for shape, but obviously go and try them on! They do various things in the trainer/approach shoe that might suit.

In reply to Robbie H:
The old PB Racers (red & green) were the business.
Not too sure why Walsh chose to discontinue them afore the new Extremes were properly established.
I bought a few pairs of the old style before they were stopped as I spoke to people who had used the new Extremes & said it was a bit like running in footy boots. The material is pretty hard wearing, but doesn't seem to mould aroun the foot as well. PB Trainers (blue & yellow) are still about & they are a wee bit wider than the racers (& ironically lighter than the new Extreme racers). These are good shoes with a slightly thicker midsole. Big plus about Walshes over others is GRIP. They are unbeatable, but as a result do tend to wear fairly quickly (the fact that they can be resoled is a big plus). Tried several Adidas pairs, but didn't really get on with 'em. The new Inov'8 look promising, but not heard tests as yet. Running Bear have taken over the old Felldancers & I'm told they have improved. Walsh convert through & through, I'm afraid.
Anyroad, I'll get me coat & zip my hood right up........

In reply to Roger Irrelevant: I used to be a fell racer, and swore by my Walsh PB Racers. When I started to concentrate more on the rock I wanted a lightweight pair of boots/shoes for approach to, and carrying up, the crags. Walsh Raids were the answer. I have worn them no more than 6 times and they have fallen to pieces. They have had so little use that the moulding pimples can still be seen on the studs.
Guess what Walsh said? The second word was off! So be carefull boys and girls, Walsh footwear, since Norman Walsh sold out, does not seem to be up to the previous standard.
The trouble is; the design is just about perfect, better than anything else I've seen. So, do I risk buying another pair in the hope that they won't fall apart in 2 or 3 days out?

In reply to Robbie H:

A few thouhgts:

- for contouring and descending low volume is generally felt to be the way to go for trainers (theory is less volume = less movement = less twisting & rubbing)
- for rough terrain and particularly contouring then thin midsoles and low heels is generally considered the way to go (if you're not going for something with ankle support). The theory being the lower the foot/heel the less turning force on the ankle (think flat shoes vs. high heels).
- on wet grass Walsh tread is pretty much unbeatable.
- on wet rock Walsh tread isn't great (but suprisingly good on dry rock).
- on soft to firm snow Walsh tread works well.

For the above reasons Walsh (either Trainer or Racers)have a big following amongst the fell running, KIMM etc. regulars (and quite a few climbers use them as approach shoes). Only obvious downsides for this sort of use are lack of cushioning on roads and quick wear down of tread on roads.

A number of alternatives have been appearing over the last few years, notably New Balance and Addidas models with similar tread pattern to the Walsh and recently the Inov8 (which seem to be getting good reports). Build quality is important as this type of shoe takes a hammering, I don't have experince on the Walsh competitors, but whatever you get be prepared to glue them back together (especially toe rands).

If scrambling is more the use you need them for (rather than wet grass) then an approach shoe is probably the way to go, but pick one with a sensible toe. A lot of the approach shoes around seem to have toes that are next to useless for using on a edge/small ledge.

Also some of the resolers will resole other shoes with a Walsh type tread, which is worth considering if you have a pair of shoes that you feel are great, but the tread is just no good on wet grass.

In reply to Nestor:

I've had several pairs of Walshes of various descriptions and can't say I've noticed a reduction in quality recently. I still think they are absolutely the best for what the first poster wants them for: (not) sliding around damp grassy hillsides. They fit fairly small to the size. How tight you want them is up to you, but obviously they'll feel more secure if they are on the neat side. The first poster needs to weigh this against how far he will be running/walking, how much his feet swell and how much he values his toe-nails. The soles wear quickly if you use them 'off grass', but once the toe area has worn a little they make a pretty reasonable rock boot, much better than most so-called approach shoes. I've lead HVS's in them. A snug fit will obviously help here too.

All this and made in Bolton!

In reply to duncan: i like walshes, with the exception of the fact that there's not much support around the heel cup. i tend to pronate a bit when i'm knackered, and walshes don't seem to give me enough upright support.

because they were on offer, i tried some nike shoes with a walsh style sole (nike air terrain?) and these seem pretty good. the sole is a bit more dense than the walshes, so seems to be lasting a bit longer. bit more heel cup support too. the only downside were the round laces which come undone about every six steps. until i fixed this with a toggle, it was a great excuse for coming last in most of the fell races i entered.

In reply to Robbie H:

Thanks for all the info people - most informative. I think I'll go back and have a look at a 0.5 size bigger in the PB Extremes and maybe alternatives like the New Balance and Raids etc.