UKC

In a new series on UKClimbing, we have teamed up with Plas-y-Brenin, the National Mountain Sports Centre, to cover a wide range of basic climbing techniques.. We will be explaining everything from putting on harnesses and tying figure of eights, to building belays and leading.

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In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:
It's no good telling people that they must " always have one hand firmly, firmly locked on the rope" if you're demonstrating a sloppy thumb and forefinger grip

In reply to timjones:


I agree, and would add that one hand ( on the "dead" rope ) should be below or at most level with the belay plate.

That way you always have the rope following an S through the plate so it has instant grab.

All this nonsense hand swapping has the rope often in a dangerous U thro the plate with no holding power.

Most experienced climbers I know, yard the rope in or out of the top of the plate with one hand above it.
The other hand is always below the plate and is always wrapped round the rope with four fingers and thumb, shuffling the rope and maintaining the instant forming of the vital S in the event of a fall.

I said " most ", I don't climb with the climbers who do not do it this way


On the lower off, one hand on the rope below and the other twisting the plate slightly to adjust friction works best for me.

In reply to Rick Graham:

I'm not sure I understand you. You're saying you take in whilst keeping the rope in the locked off position?

In reply to Rick Graham:

I too shuffle the dead end of the rope through my hand rather than switching hands. it's quicker.

I know a lot of people learn by the "V to knee, 1,2,3" type method but I really don't understand why in the video they lift the dead end of the rope up so high to take in the slack. When I belay with an ATC style device the rope is nowhere near this high and I'm not fighting friction or anything to pull rope through..

In reply to jsmcfarland:



I don't think lifting the rope that high is a problem as long as you maintain a firm grip on the rope. Lifting it that high whilst holding it like a bone china teacup with your pinkie elevated is inexcusable on an instructional video IMO.

In reply to timjones:

There's good stuff and less than good stuff in this (and most other 'instructional' videos). Just goes to show, yet again, that for an activity that is complex and where there are many ways to do things effectively and innumerable ways to do things poorly, videos are a very poor substitute for learning from a suitably qualified human being, in the flesh.

Remember the above if you're starting out, and act on it if you possibly can.

In reply to Purple:


The worrying thing is that the belayer in the video is apparently a "suitably qualified human being". I'm surprised that he doesn't understand the need to demonstrate good practice when instructing regardless of the medium.

In reply to timjones:

Surely top/bottom ropers are sub-human?

In reply to Removed User:


Don't be harsh, it's excusable for novices and children

In reply to timjones:


I always have one hand on the rope below or level with the plate.

If a fall occurs, the part friction in the plate will lift it above the hand so creating the Z or S in the rope shape.

It should also be instinct to move the hand down and grip the rope.

Lifting two hands high, means a U in the rope. You might as well not use a plate and just have the rope thro a krab for the friction it creates, bad news for the climber, unless you are very quick with the hand on the " dead " rope.

In reply to jsmcfarland:

and safer


A strong belayer of equal weight to the climber should just be able to hold someone with two hands held silly high with the friction through the top rope anchor and belay krab, but it is certainly not safe IMHO, especially is any slack develops in the system.

One problem with this complicated method is that it may be safe ( just, maybe )for a top rope but lethal for lead belaying.

In reply to Rick Graham:

I think you're misrepresenting how the technique is meant to work Rick. You don't hold a fall with the rope held in a U shape, you lock off in an S, and most of the time that's how the rope is held. The U shape quickly allows rope to be taken in with minimal friction. The human grip reflex is quick and robust enough to allow an attentive belayer time to move their hand to the locked off S position most of the time. In fact, that downward movement is useful as it counteracts the inertial movement of the hand which might otherwise suck it towards the device. The constant lock-off method you describe doesn't work very well with stiff ropes or with modern cleated belay devices (for me anyway) but was probably more useful with the slicker devices of yesteryear? Or maybe you're loads stronger than me and can pull your ropes through more easily than me

In reply to timjones:
Fair comments Tim.

I've no doubt that our man is suitably qualified as an instructor, and (deep down) understands the need to demonstrate good practice when instructing regardless of the medium.

But,

for all sorts of reasons, video is a very difficult medium in which to effectively capture instructional information of this type. This is exactly why this and other videos fail.

Unfortunately it's very easy to clag a bit of footage together and upload it.

I imagine there are a few folk involved in the film, least of all our man holding the rope, who could have ensured this was a better effort.

In reply to UKC/UKH Articles:

Articles like this are how I learned. Basically after 6mths of bouldering at the local wall, my daughter entered the YCS series. We had never climbed with a rope & harness before. A 1hr lesson on figure 8 & stop knots and then a google of every video I could find on BMC and youtube regarding belaying.

Then went to Go Outdoors to buy 2 x harness's and belay device etc and we went to the local wall. 10mins later I was belaying my daughter (With a good friend who knew what he was doing watching). She has always ties her own knots with me checking them and I belay pretty much identical to the above video.

I cant even comment on the hows and whys of peoples comments, but I will say for a beginner like me, videos like this are/were very very helpful.

In reply to danm:


Hi Dan
I agree with you, maybe just have not explained my technique adequately.
One hand always on dead rope, never above the belay device.
Taking in or paying out, the U should always be on its side never upright. This is one of the most important points.
Any fall, leading or top rope, will lift the belay plate up and tend to an S shape in the rope, the dead rope hand moving ( instinctively ) down and gripping the rope.

This technique works where the belayer is on the ground and the rope going up to the lower off or leader.
The belayer can also move in and out from the crag to assist with clipping and fall catch weighting without the need to pay in or out through the plate or belay device.

Belaying a second on multi pitch is a different topic ( as is belaying a leader ) but I think the same technique and principles apply for belaying on the ground for a leader or top rope.
All the experienced climbers I see use this technique so why teach something different?

In reply to Rick Graham:

That sounds very much like how I belay tbh. I'm going to remain annoyingly positive and say I still think the belaying in the video is fine.

On a tangent, went to a talk your lad Pete and Ben Silvestre gave about Patagonia and Alaska - good to see Pete following in your footsteps

In reply to danm:


The belaying in the video is safe.
My point is that it might not be the best way to do it and teach it.
Some horrid top roping going on last week at the wall, not following the video technique properly, wall staff stepping in, again.


I don't think he is following any more, a step or two ahead.