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Just looking for some recommendations for well protected grade IIs and possibly a grade III if I'm feeling pushy. Well protected mainly as I'm a giant wuss. I've done a few grade IIs previously but essentially soloed most of them as they were largely grade I, so I'm looking for slightly more sustained climbs with the option to lace it if necessary.
Anyone have any ideas? Scotland or Wales preferred!
Anyone have any ideas? Scotland or Wales preferred!
1
In reply to Kid Spatula:
A couple of suggestions in Wales:
Cneifion Arete III 3/4 lovely mixed route and well protected from what I remember, first couple of pitches are the hardest but good gear.
Idwal Stream II/III is very popular in could suit.
Snowdon's trinity face routes, central trinity etc are good and pretty atmospheric, can be powdery and not overly blessed with protection but pretty easy going.
Bristly Ride II 2/3 is Lovely as well, another well protected mixed route.
Crib Lem II could suit.
Seniors ridge on Glyder Fach perhaps?
In general, it's pretty conditions dependent though in terms of difficulty and protection.
ML
A couple of suggestions in Wales:
Cneifion Arete III 3/4 lovely mixed route and well protected from what I remember, first couple of pitches are the hardest but good gear.
Idwal Stream II/III is very popular in could suit.
Snowdon's trinity face routes, central trinity etc are good and pretty atmospheric, can be powdery and not overly blessed with protection but pretty easy going.
Bristly Ride II 2/3 is Lovely as well, another well protected mixed route.
Crib Lem II could suit.
Seniors ridge on Glyder Fach perhaps?
In general, it's pretty conditions dependent though in terms of difficulty and protection.
ML
Post edited at 13:05
1
In reply to Malt_Loaf:
Yeah I get it's conditions dependent, I'd just like to know it's there .
I've done Cneifion Arete in Summer, and Idwal Stream in Winter before. The latter was ace, and I'd love to do Cneifion Arete in winter nick. With all those spikes it should be totally fine.
Tried Bristly Ridge a couple of years back after doing the N ridge of Tryfan in winter. The snow was rubbish then, but I'd be keen to give it a go again.
Yeah I get it's conditions dependent, I'd just like to know it's there .
I've done Cneifion Arete in Summer, and Idwal Stream in Winter before. The latter was ace, and I'd love to do Cneifion Arete in winter nick. With all those spikes it should be totally fine.
Tried Bristly Ridge a couple of years back after doing the N ridge of Tryfan in winter. The snow was rubbish then, but I'd be keen to give it a go again.
In reply to Kid Spatula:
In Scotland especially the conditions massively change the protection possibilities. During a very hard winter often most the cracks are buried. Regarding ice routes sometimes they are fat and take screws and other times protection is very scant.
In Scotland especially the conditions massively change the protection possibilities. During a very hard winter often most the cracks are buried. Regarding ice routes sometimes they are fat and take screws and other times protection is very scant.
In reply to Kid Spatula:
I get that all of these things are conditions dependent, some of them have more potential protection than others though...
I get that all of these things are conditions dependent, some of them have more potential protection than others though...
In reply to Kid Spatula:
Hidden chimney in scnechda pretty much fits the bill. II/III and can lace the whole thing. tbh at those grades most gullies are fairly poorly protected, but should have enough gear where it counts, ie at any steep ice/rock steps. i cant think of any gullies which are sustained at those grades (ie. 60-80deg snow the whole way), maybe the runnel in schnechda but as i soloed it i cant comment on protection!
in south wales torpantau falls is a brilliant grade III which takes lots of screws (and even the odd hex!) and the main pitch is a pretty constant grade for 30m or so of off vertical ice.
Hidden chimney in scnechda pretty much fits the bill. II/III and can lace the whole thing. tbh at those grades most gullies are fairly poorly protected, but should have enough gear where it counts, ie at any steep ice/rock steps. i cant think of any gullies which are sustained at those grades (ie. 60-80deg snow the whole way), maybe the runnel in schnechda but as i soloed it i cant comment on protection!
in south wales torpantau falls is a brilliant grade III which takes lots of screws (and even the odd hex!) and the main pitch is a pretty constant grade for 30m or so of off vertical ice.
In reply to Kid Spatula:
Central Gulley on Lurchers Crag is my all-time favourite. Great ice when its in nick. Long walk in but well worth it...
Central Gulley on Lurchers Crag is my all-time favourite. Great ice when its in nick. Long walk in but well worth it...
In reply to Nic DW:
Never climb in the NW Highlands if you think Lurchers is a long walk in!
> Long walk in but well worth it...
Never climb in the NW Highlands if you think Lurchers is a long walk in!
10
In reply to DaveHK:
Isn't the walk in to Lurchers basically do the Coire an t Sneachda walk in and get it horribly, horribly wrong? That's the way I got there once...
Isn't the walk in to Lurchers basically do the Coire an t Sneachda walk in and get it horribly, horribly wrong? That's the way I got there once...
6
In reply to Kid Spatula:
Thats not the logical way to go, the best way is to approach from the sugarbowl car park and through the gap, but yes, if you miss both the turn offs to both sneachda and lochain and keep on going and going, you will eventually end up near the top of lurchers crag...
> Isn't the walk in to Lurchers basically do the Coire an t Sneachda walk in and get it horribly, horribly wrong? That's the way I got there once...
Thats not the logical way to go, the best way is to approach from the sugarbowl car park and through the gap, but yes, if you miss both the turn offs to both sneachda and lochain and keep on going and going, you will eventually end up near the top of lurchers crag...
2
In reply to Kid Spatula:
Couple ice routes worth looking at - The Weep on Creise is rarely "in" but easy to protect with screws, as well as opportunities for rock gear in the sides, also has lots of short steps and is easily escapable most of the way up. Beinn Udlaidh has Tinkerbell and West Gully that also fit the bill there (small steps, good ice when in, Tinkerbell easily escapeable most of teh way up) but there's generally poor protection in between the ice pitches, especially West Gully. Dorsal Arete in Stob Coire nan Lochan after a busy weekend will have all the cracks and spikes and threads cleared for you
Ledge route once you're past the "bad step" at the start maybe, depending on build up - done it a couple of times and seem to remember being able to thread and loop slings round loads of stuff, but maybe it all disappears a bit in big snow conditions?
Couple ice routes worth looking at - The Weep on Creise is rarely "in" but easy to protect with screws, as well as opportunities for rock gear in the sides, also has lots of short steps and is easily escapable most of the way up. Beinn Udlaidh has Tinkerbell and West Gully that also fit the bill there (small steps, good ice when in, Tinkerbell easily escapeable most of teh way up) but there's generally poor protection in between the ice pitches, especially West Gully. Dorsal Arete in Stob Coire nan Lochan after a busy weekend will have all the cracks and spikes and threads cleared for you
Ledge route once you're past the "bad step" at the start maybe, depending on build up - done it a couple of times and seem to remember being able to thread and loop slings round loads of stuff, but maybe it all disappears a bit in big snow conditions?
In reply to peebles boy:
Golden Oldy on Aonach Mor is a great mountaineering day out at a well protected II. The adjacent grade III routes Western Rib and Daim Buttress are also very enjoyable.
All are open to some variation but I personally thought Western Rib the best of the three as it seemed to have the most climbing.
Dorsal Arete is a good shout too, stick to the ridge and don't sneak off to the left.
Golden Oldy on Aonach Mor is a great mountaineering day out at a well protected II. The adjacent grade III routes Western Rib and Daim Buttress are also very enjoyable.
All are open to some variation but I personally thought Western Rib the best of the three as it seemed to have the most climbing.
Dorsal Arete is a good shout too, stick to the ridge and don't sneak off to the left.
1
In reply to Kid Spatula:
The Runnel, Coire an t Sneachda, its so good I had to do it twice last year. A single rope will suffice
The Runnel, Coire an t Sneachda, its so good I had to do it twice last year. A single rope will suffice
In reply to Kid Spatula:
In Glen coe there's Dorsal Arete which is very well protected. Curved Ridge is a brilliant II/III that I remember having at least average protection
In Glen coe there's Dorsal Arete which is very well protected. Curved Ridge is a brilliant II/III that I remember having at least average protection
In reply to drsdave:
Agreed.
Also in the Norries, Goat Track Gully and Ewen Buttress. The latter is quite a friendly III, well protected when it matters in good early season conditions.
In the 'Coe Twisting Gully (with good build up) is reassuringly well-protected in the right conditions.
> The Runnel, Coire an t Sneachda, its so good I had to do it twice last year. A single rope will suffice
Agreed.
Also in the Norries, Goat Track Gully and Ewen Buttress. The latter is quite a friendly III, well protected when it matters in good early season conditions.
In the 'Coe Twisting Gully (with good build up) is reassuringly well-protected in the right conditions.
Post edited at 20:26
In reply to Mike-W-99:
Not when I did it! It must be conditions dependent. I did it in February 2012, felt like a serious III.
Agreed about that tho!
> Golden Oldy on Aonach Mor is a great mountaineering day out at a well protected II.
Not when I did it! It must be conditions dependent. I did it in February 2012, felt like a serious III.
> Dorsal Arete is a good shout too, stick to the ridge and don't sneak off to the left.
Agreed about that tho!
In reply to Mark Bannan:
> Not when I did it! It must be conditions dependent. I did it in February 2012, felt like a serious III.
I thought the hardest bit was finding the start in the mist!
1
In reply to oliverk:
Surely it can't be a II/III.Certainly a nice route,and it's not that hard to descend.
Agag's Groove is a good multi pitch V diff, so it must be a good ice route in the right conditions. After all didn't that Bonnington chap do it first?
(Just joking)
> Curved Ridge is a brilliant II/III that I remember having at least average protection
Surely it can't be a II/III.Certainly a nice route,and it's not that hard to descend.
Agag's Groove is a good multi pitch V diff, so it must be a good ice route in the right conditions. After all didn't that Bonnington chap do it first?
(Just joking)
1
> Bristly Ride II 2/3 is Lovely as well, another well protected mixed route.
Is Bristly Ridge really II 2/3? Surely not. I soloed it in Winter conditions a couple of years ago and it felt like a straight forward Grade I.
Post edited at 00:10
In reply to veteye:
What grade do you think it is? (Curved Ridge) I had some idea the crux groove was thought to be tech 4 but I may be talking rubbish
What grade do you think it is? (Curved Ridge) I had some idea the crux groove was thought to be tech 4 but I may be talking rubbish
In reply to veteye:
If you take the steep bits direct then it's that grade. Via the easier bypasses is of course easier.
> Surely it can't be a II/III.Certainly a nice route,and it's not that hard to descend.
If you take the steep bits direct then it's that grade. Via the easier bypasses is of course easier.
In reply to Michael Gordon:
Many years ago I had no-one to climb with and so joined up with a couple of novice winter climbers to be guided by Mick Tigh. So we went up North Buttress and descended unroped down curved ridge when it had little snow cover, just mainly ice and some exposed rock.
I've also soloed up it in slightly more snowy conditions and yes you can take a slightly harder line(and we all tend to do that anyway) but I do not remember it being that exposed or worrying.
Taxus is grade III and a much more serious climb so shouldn't a II/III be approaching that?
Many years ago I had no-one to climb with and so joined up with a couple of novice winter climbers to be guided by Mick Tigh. So we went up North Buttress and descended unroped down curved ridge when it had little snow cover, just mainly ice and some exposed rock.
I've also soloed up it in slightly more snowy conditions and yes you can take a slightly harder line(and we all tend to do that anyway) but I do not remember it being that exposed or worrying.
Taxus is grade III and a much more serious climb so shouldn't a II/III be approaching that?
In reply to Rylstone_Cowboy:
Bristly Ridge (II)
From memory, it probably gets that grade for the gully part at start, probably only grade II for a pitch or so. Once you're on the ridge itself I remember it being a very alpine feeling grade I. Maybe there are a couple of trickier steps i'm not remembering but I'm sure someone with more recent experience could fill in the gaps.
ML
Bristly Ridge (II)
From memory, it probably gets that grade for the gully part at start, probably only grade II for a pitch or so. Once you're on the ridge itself I remember it being a very alpine feeling grade I. Maybe there are a couple of trickier steps i'm not remembering but I'm sure someone with more recent experience could fill in the gaps.
ML
Post edited at 09:19
In reply to Kid Spatula:
Hidden chimney is a good call.
Dorsal arete is also good
Ledge Route on the ben
For ice
Tower scoop is also normally fat by mid season taking good screws
Number 3 gully buttress seemed reasonable to me in good conditions - you want firm snow ice really. The final chimney variation pitch was a bit run out above good runners when I did it climbing on great neve.
Hidden chimney is a good call.
Dorsal arete is also good
Ledge Route on the ben
For ice
Tower scoop is also normally fat by mid season taking good screws
Number 3 gully buttress seemed reasonable to me in good conditions - you want firm snow ice really. The final chimney variation pitch was a bit run out above good runners when I did it climbing on great neve.
Post edited at 09:58
In reply to DaveHK:
I thought curved ridge was well worth II/III when I did it, the first pitch was harder than a II that day and some higher sections weren't easy. The conditions were quite deep powder. I think we went around the final large buttress on the main ridge before the snow basin up a gully to the side as time was getting on. Its quite a long route I thought.
> If you take the steep bits direct then it's that grade. Via the easier bypasses is of course easier.
I thought curved ridge was well worth II/III when I did it, the first pitch was harder than a II that day and some higher sections weren't easy. The conditions were quite deep powder. I think we went around the final large buttress on the main ridge before the snow basin up a gully to the side as time was getting on. Its quite a long route I thought.
Post edited at 10:04
In reply to veteye:
I've just read that McKenzie et al climbed this route in 1937 in semi-winter conditions which might pertain more to this winter's conditions.
> Agag's Groove is a good multi pitch V diff, so it must be a good ice route in the right conditions. After all didn't that Bonnington chap do it first?
I've just read that McKenzie et al climbed this route in 1937 in semi-winter conditions which might pertain more to this winter's conditions.
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Tower Scoop will indeed generally swallow as many screws as you feel like putting in. Felt it was III,4 on the day we did it last winter though, so probably not one for someone looking for II pushing III. Perhaps we were going for the "interesting" bits though.
No-one's mentioned Tower Ridge. Yes, now officially IV, but if you do it late in the season with long daylight, a suitably early start, midweek to avoid queues, good weather, absence of wind and have read the guidebooks, it's an option: the cruxes are short and can all be laced, and in settled conditions you can just follow the footprints! Between said cruxes it's one of Scotland's finest winter hillwalks. What a day! When we did it, the opening chimney out of the Douglas Gap was technically the hardest bit (thin and powdery on that occasion, but with a decent amount of gear.) Get past that and, provided you can cope with substantial exposure, you're cooking with gas. Maybe something to work up to this season if you get a good number of II and III mixed climbing miles under your belt?
Agree re Hidden Chimney. Can anyone think of any other II or III gullies that have good pro on the walls where it won't be buried?
Curved Ridge... When we did it it was buried in a foot and a half of powder, so protection not really feasible. Great day out, but handle with care unless you've figured out the conditions.
I know it's moving down a grade, but Deep South Gully on Beinn Alligin is not to be missed. What an extraordinary place. And, if I recall correctly, plenty of opportunities to place gear.
Tower Scoop will indeed generally swallow as many screws as you feel like putting in. Felt it was III,4 on the day we did it last winter though, so probably not one for someone looking for II pushing III. Perhaps we were going for the "interesting" bits though.
No-one's mentioned Tower Ridge. Yes, now officially IV, but if you do it late in the season with long daylight, a suitably early start, midweek to avoid queues, good weather, absence of wind and have read the guidebooks, it's an option: the cruxes are short and can all be laced, and in settled conditions you can just follow the footprints! Between said cruxes it's one of Scotland's finest winter hillwalks. What a day! When we did it, the opening chimney out of the Douglas Gap was technically the hardest bit (thin and powdery on that occasion, but with a decent amount of gear.) Get past that and, provided you can cope with substantial exposure, you're cooking with gas. Maybe something to work up to this season if you get a good number of II and III mixed climbing miles under your belt?
Agree re Hidden Chimney. Can anyone think of any other II or III gullies that have good pro on the walls where it won't be buried?
Curved Ridge... When we did it it was buried in a foot and a half of powder, so protection not really feasible. Great day out, but handle with care unless you've figured out the conditions.
I know it's moving down a grade, but Deep South Gully on Beinn Alligin is not to be missed. What an extraordinary place. And, if I recall correctly, plenty of opportunities to place gear.
2
In reply to adamarchie:
Sure but by mid season the OP might be going well enough for it.
Hmmm I thought about tower ridge but didn't advise it as you need to moving quickly, personally I'd want to be doing III's like they were a walk in the park before jumping on it. It's a great route though IMHO better than north buttress,
> Tower Scoop will indeed generally swallow as many screws as you feel like putting in. Felt it was III,4 on the day we did it last winter though, so probably not one for someone looking for II pushing III. Perhaps we were going for the "interesting" bits though.
Sure but by mid season the OP might be going well enough for it.
> No-one's mentioned Tower Ridge. Yes, now officially IV, but if you do it late in the season with long daylight, a suitably early start, midweek to avoid queues, good weather, absence of wind and have read the guidebooks, it's an option: the cruxes are short and can all be laced, and in settled conditions you can just follow the footprints! Between said cruxes it's one of Scotland's finest winter hillwalks. What a day! When we did it, the opening chimney out of the Douglas Gap was technically the hardest bit (thin and powdery on that occasion, but with a decent amount of gear.) Get past that and, provided you can cope with substantial exposure, you're cooking with gas. Maybe something to work up to this season if you get a good number of II and III mixed climbing miles under your belt?
Hmmm I thought about tower ridge but didn't advise it as you need to moving quickly, personally I'd want to be doing III's like they were a walk in the park before jumping on it. It's a great route though IMHO better than north buttress,
Post edited at 08:42
In reply to Kid Spatula:
East Ridge of North Buttress on Stob Ban could be a shout. Very turfy so needs to be well frozen.
Pioneer Gully in Coire an-t Slugain is a good low III.
Stairway to Heaven on Beinn an Dothaidh, again very turfy.
Staghorn Gully, Creag Meagaidh. In good conditions a II with an ice pitch for the crux.
Castle Ridge on the Ben - arguably more like II,4 but the crux is very well protected.
(Please note I soloed all of these, but from memory I should think they'd all have pretty good options for protection).
East Ridge of North Buttress on Stob Ban could be a shout. Very turfy so needs to be well frozen.
Pioneer Gully in Coire an-t Slugain is a good low III.
Stairway to Heaven on Beinn an Dothaidh, again very turfy.
Staghorn Gully, Creag Meagaidh. In good conditions a II with an ice pitch for the crux.
Castle Ridge on the Ben - arguably more like II,4 but the crux is very well protected.
(Please note I soloed all of these, but from memory I should think they'd all have pretty good options for protection).
1
In reply to adamarchie:
No wonder no-one mentioned Tower Ridge, being grade IV when the OP said "possibly a grade III if I'm feeling pushy".
No wonder no-one mentioned Tower Ridge, being grade IV when the OP said "possibly a grade III if I'm feeling pushy".
In reply to JamesRoddie:
Stairway to Heaven was the scene of my longest ever runout. Finally found a decent hex placement after 59m. Didn't realise I was only a metre from the in situ peg belay and adjacent wires. It felt quite bold in unhelpful conditions (thin ice).
Just shows how the experience varies with conditions.
Stairway to Heaven was the scene of my longest ever runout. Finally found a decent hex placement after 59m. Didn't realise I was only a metre from the in situ peg belay and adjacent wires. It felt quite bold in unhelpful conditions (thin ice).
Just shows how the experience varies with conditions.
1
In reply to Michael Gordon:
I thought it was a very long grade II that had been upgraded to prevent epics.
> No wonder no-one mentioned Tower Ridge, being grade IV when the OP said "possibly a grade III if I'm feeling pushy".
I thought it was a very long grade II that had been upgraded to prevent epics.
In reply to Michael Gordon:
Fair point, and one that had occurred to me! Given optimal conditions, good planning and a decent build up of the OP's experience over the course of this season though, it's far from unattainable. The cruxes are short lived and well protected with virtually everything else being considerably more straightforward.
Fair point, and one that had occurred to me! Given optimal conditions, good planning and a decent build up of the OP's experience over the course of this season though, it's far from unattainable. The cruxes are short lived and well protected with virtually everything else being considerably more straightforward.
In reply to Mark Bannan:
Good suggestions. The Runnel is a bit of a one pitch wonder and a long plod to that top pitch. Red is a good outing at II.
Also plenty of scope at Aonach Mor at II and III.
> > The Runnel, Coire an t Sneachda, its so good I had to do it twice last year. A single rope will suffice
> Agreed.
> Also in the Norries, Goat Track Gully and Ewen Buttress. The latter is quite a friendly III, well protected when it matters in good early season conditions.
Good suggestions. The Runnel is a bit of a one pitch wonder and a long plod to that top pitch. Red is a good outing at II.
Also plenty of scope at Aonach Mor at II and III.
1
In reply to Jim Fraser:
I agree Red Gully is better value than The Runnel, with some nice icy bits, at least when I did it. Soloed them both though (great way to spend a morning!) so wouldn't want to comment on gear. Can anyone provide info in that regard?
> Good suggestions. The Runnel is a bit of a one pitch wonder and a long plod to that top pitch. Red is a good outing at II.
I agree Red Gully is better value than The Runnel, with some nice icy bits, at least when I did it. Soloed them both though (great way to spend a morning!) so wouldn't want to comment on gear. Can anyone provide info in that regard?
In reply to adamarchie:
Gear in red gully was good when I did it, though the first pitch was closer to III. Excellent first pitch, after that it's pretty straight forward, almost disappointingly so I thought. If only reds first pitch and the runnels last was all the same climb!
Gear in red gully was good when I did it, though the first pitch was closer to III. Excellent first pitch, after that it's pretty straight forward, almost disappointingly so I thought. If only reds first pitch and the runnels last was all the same climb!
1
In reply to Simon Caldwell:
A very long grade II with short bits of IV
> I thought it was a very long grade II that had been upgraded to prevent epics.
A very long grade II with short bits of IV
1
In reply to adamarchie:
Deep South is well worth doing as is Hayfork gully on An Teallach.
Actually they are really well worth doing
(beware Lord's Gully early season, a brilliant route but without a good build up at the top somewhat scarier than advertised)
Deep South is well worth doing as is Hayfork gully on An Teallach.
Actually they are really well worth doing
(beware Lord's Gully early season, a brilliant route but without a good build up at the top somewhat scarier than advertised)
2
In reply to Michael Gordon:
I think most hard bits of tower ridge would probably be grade III in isolation. Possibly tower gap and the pitch after the eastern traverse may warrant a IV sometimes. In any case I think most of the reason for the upgrade from III was to deter people who weren't sold at grade III from trying it and getting benighted / causing long queues.
I think most hard bits of tower ridge would probably be grade III in isolation. Possibly tower gap and the pitch after the eastern traverse may warrant a IV sometimes. In any case I think most of the reason for the upgrade from III was to deter people who weren't sold at grade III from trying it and getting benighted / causing long queues.
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Yes, the grade partly reflects the length of the route and the associated difficulties that may bring. But then that's what grades are for.
Yes, the grade partly reflects the length of the route and the associated difficulties that may bring. But then that's what grades are for.
In reply to adamarchie:
IIRC there was not loads of gear on The Runnel when we did it latish last season and conditions were pretty good for spotting cracks etc. good route though despite the aforementioned lots of grade I before the crux pitch. Fiacaill Couloir was a better and more sustained route
IIRC there was not loads of gear on The Runnel when we did it latish last season and conditions were pretty good for spotting cracks etc. good route though despite the aforementioned lots of grade I before the crux pitch. Fiacaill Couloir was a better and more sustained route
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