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It's time for some new poons, thinking of embracing the 21st century with some of these...... are they really the big game changer they are made out to be, i can see an advantage on overhanging stuff, but for general winter climbing are they overkill.... experiences please.
In reply to Andy Clarke1965:
I used to climb mostly waterfall ice at grades 4 and 5 and found them beneficial.
Al
I used to climb mostly waterfall ice at grades 4 and 5 and found them beneficial.
Al
In reply to Andy Clarke1965:
you'll feel the difference on v certainly. though any brand new crampons are going to feel pretty good.
you'll feel the difference on v certainly. though any brand new crampons are going to feel pretty good.
In reply to Andy Clarke1965:
I tried them once (Lynx) and lost quite a bit of confidence grade III / IV and didn't like it at all but I am a proper scardy cat punter.
cheers
Gaz
I tried them once (Lynx) and lost quite a bit of confidence grade III / IV and didn't like it at all but I am a proper scardy cat punter.
cheers
Gaz
In reply to Andy Clarke1965:
Petzl lynx are great as mono or dual, so maybe try them and you can see for yourself?
Will Gadd swears by sold style flat dual points for very steep ice though...
Petzl lynx are great as mono or dual, so maybe try them and you can see for yourself?
Will Gadd swears by sold style flat dual points for very steep ice though...
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In reply to Andy Clarke1965:
Great for steep mixed (and slabby stuff). I'd say you'd definitely see the benefit at the grades you're at.
Great for steep mixed (and slabby stuff). I'd say you'd definitely see the benefit at the grades you're at.
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In reply to Fultonius:
This is good to know, was looking at the Dart but then there is also the Dartwin in the mix, obviously i am used to two, i guess one of the negatives is thin ice, or is this an urban myth, any experiences, i'm sure on turfy mixed, mono's are king.
I am looking for one do it all crampon.
This is good to know, was looking at the Dart but then there is also the Dartwin in the mix, obviously i am used to two, i guess one of the negatives is thin ice, or is this an urban myth, any experiences, i'm sure on turfy mixed, mono's are king.
I am looking for one do it all crampon.
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In reply to Chrismith:
They are an interesting concept, any real world experiences?
What would the Bullock use, yes he is cutting edge, but he does like icy mixed.
PS. The Petzl Lynx do look good, modular, a bit similar to my old Rambo's, but wow expensive! food for thought.
They are an interesting concept, any real world experiences?
What would the Bullock use, yes he is cutting edge, but he does like icy mixed.
PS. The Petzl Lynx do look good, modular, a bit similar to my old Rambo's, but wow expensive! food for thought.
Post edited at 19:36
In reply to Andy Clarke1965:
If you're really unsure - go with a Lynx/G14/Cyborg/C14/BladeRunner/etc... so you can try both. Monopoints are fantastic for all but more general mountaineering where you might want a bit more traction. I started using monopoints 10+ years ago and haven't looked back. If you really are a punter though, chances are you'll wear out the dart/g20 type crampon quickly with misplaced kicks, poor rock scratching technique etc... I've never used the snaggletooth but it looks stupid. Then again I said that about leashless climbing 12 years ago. Plus BD's horizontal frontpoint stainless steel crampons have a reputation for breaking.
If you're really unsure - go with a Lynx/G14/Cyborg/C14/BladeRunner/etc... so you can try both. Monopoints are fantastic for all but more general mountaineering where you might want a bit more traction. I started using monopoints 10+ years ago and haven't looked back. If you really are a punter though, chances are you'll wear out the dart/g20 type crampon quickly with misplaced kicks, poor rock scratching technique etc... I've never used the snaggletooth but it looks stupid. Then again I said that about leashless climbing 12 years ago. Plus BD's horizontal frontpoint stainless steel crampons have a reputation for breaking.
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In reply to Andy Clarke1965:
Mono's Probably are better for mixed but definitely not as bomber in neve or so so ice. Certainly better in good but very cold brittle hard ice. Overall for neve / ice routes in good but still variable conditions I like duals veriticle points, for early season mountaineering I prefer flat points as they are much better in less consolidated snow. I have G14 sabretooths and Rambo 4.
Mono's Probably are better for mixed but definitely not as bomber in neve or so so ice. Certainly better in good but very cold brittle hard ice. Overall for neve / ice routes in good but still variable conditions I like duals veriticle points, for early season mountaineering I prefer flat points as they are much better in less consolidated snow. I have G14 sabretooths and Rambo 4.
Post edited at 20:02
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In reply to Andy Clarke1965: FWIW I've got a pair of un-used Grivel G20 crampons for sale - £90 posted.
Personally I've been using monos on routes around Scottish V since 2002 although I still tend to use Airtechs on grade III and some grade IV.
Personally I've been using monos on routes around Scottish V since 2002 although I still tend to use Airtechs on grade III and some grade IV.
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1
In reply to Andy Clarke1965:
I don't like them for ice (Scottish snow ice anyway) and I got pretty gripped when they were shearing through steep hard neve one time, but I like them for mixed; they simplify and encourage good precise footwork at any grade.
I don't like them for ice (Scottish snow ice anyway) and I got pretty gripped when they were shearing through steep hard neve one time, but I like them for mixed; they simplify and encourage good precise footwork at any grade.
3
In reply to Andy Clarke1965:
The Snaggletooths sound good in theory, for the grade I climb at just now I'd prefer more purchase on snow for the steep top outs! I have g14s set up in mono and after last seasons top outs scraping down through snow and clinging on for dear life on a few occasions, I thought I'd try the Snaggletooths.
They seem the like a good all round compromise in my opinion.
Though I've yet to try them, they're in the mail... And for £125 at needlesports, was a no brainer for me. And they're really light.
The Snaggletooths sound good in theory, for the grade I climb at just now I'd prefer more purchase on snow for the steep top outs! I have g14s set up in mono and after last seasons top outs scraping down through snow and clinging on for dear life on a few occasions, I thought I'd try the Snaggletooths.
They seem the like a good all round compromise in my opinion.
Though I've yet to try them, they're in the mail... And for £125 at needlesports, was a no brainer for me. And they're really light.
Post edited at 00:48
In reply to Robert Durran:
Yeah I've had problems with mono-points shearing through good neve in situations that duals wouldn't have, and that's rambos with the smaller secondary point.
Had similar experiences on more variable ice, which less face it most climbs have at some point, even euro ice.
Yeah I've had problems with mono-points shearing through good neve in situations that duals wouldn't have, and that's rambos with the smaller secondary point.
Had similar experiences on more variable ice, which less face it most climbs have at some point, even euro ice.
Post edited at 08:38
In reply to Andy Clarke1965:
If climbing punter mixed, monos are the way to go. For really punter ice (sub WI3), twinpoints (or even horizontal) are the way to go.
Harder, featured ice, monos rule again.
In short, if you're upgrading anyway. The new modular systems are the way to go.
Petzl Lynx, Grivel G14 or Austria Alpin SkySteep are the way to go. I got the Austria Alpine one, is it gave the best fit for my AT-boots. Still using Darts for mixed and ice (to be demoted to early-season mixed & drytooling) and also have a pair of beat up G14 (my old drytooling 'poons).
If climbing punter mixed, monos are the way to go. For really punter ice (sub WI3), twinpoints (or even horizontal) are the way to go.
Harder, featured ice, monos rule again.
In short, if you're upgrading anyway. The new modular systems are the way to go.
Petzl Lynx, Grivel G14 or Austria Alpin SkySteep are the way to go. I got the Austria Alpine one, is it gave the best fit for my AT-boots. Still using Darts for mixed and ice (to be demoted to early-season mixed & drytooling) and also have a pair of beat up G14 (my old drytooling 'poons).
In reply to HeMa:
I agree with what you say about getting, in my case, the Lynx. However, once set up as monos, I've never had the inclination to reconfigure them to duals just for a snowy route. I think I'm aware that, having got them just so, messing about with them again is so much more trouble than taking my old pair of G12s out for the day, which in any case are more comfortable and lighter for those easy gullies.
I agree with what you say about getting, in my case, the Lynx. However, once set up as monos, I've never had the inclination to reconfigure them to duals just for a snowy route. I think I'm aware that, having got them just so, messing about with them again is so much more trouble than taking my old pair of G12s out for the day, which in any case are more comfortable and lighter for those easy gullies.
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In reply to Andy Clarke1965:
If you're going mono, a pair with an adjustable length like the BD Stinger/cyborg are essential.
Otherwise I guarantee you will be moaning that they aren't long enough, keep popping off and that you get no contact with your secondary points, which is essential for a stable stance.
A regularly overlooked point and covered quite well on the old cold thistle blog, is just how secure crampon front points are on ice when they are longer and more secure on rock/mixed when shorter!
A pair of monos will make a world of difference to your climbing style and confidence, but I thoroughly recommend getting a totally modular pair. Something where you can adjust everything and spend the time doing it! If you're not convinced by a dedicated mono-point then a pair that can be adapted from dual to mono based on the type of route you do can also be an option. In fact for general winter mountaineering this might be the best option!
Also remember that with removable points you extend the lifetime of your crampons massively as they are always replaceable.
If you're going mono, a pair with an adjustable length like the BD Stinger/cyborg are essential.
Otherwise I guarantee you will be moaning that they aren't long enough, keep popping off and that you get no contact with your secondary points, which is essential for a stable stance.
A regularly overlooked point and covered quite well on the old cold thistle blog, is just how secure crampon front points are on ice when they are longer and more secure on rock/mixed when shorter!
A pair of monos will make a world of difference to your climbing style and confidence, but I thoroughly recommend getting a totally modular pair. Something where you can adjust everything and spend the time doing it! If you're not convinced by a dedicated mono-point then a pair that can be adapted from dual to mono based on the type of route you do can also be an option. In fact for general winter mountaineering this might be the best option!
Also remember that with removable points you extend the lifetime of your crampons massively as they are always replaceable.
In reply to Andy Clarke1965:
Modular has definately been the way to go for me. I use monos on all mixed and water ice but have switched to duals if expecting softer ice or a lot of snow bashing. I've got my best set of points for ice and blunter pairs for mixed and dry tooling. Change them fairly regularly depending what I expect to be climbing so that I keep my ice pair really sharp. A little faff but a lot less filing of front points in the long term. Modular crampons weigh a bit more but a lot more flexible with set-ups.
For mixed routes I could not imagine using anything but monos. The spacing of dual points makes any foot placement less than 4cm width awkward. Difficult to point load anything small. I can't really control the direction of force on small placements so easily with duals.
Modular has definately been the way to go for me. I use monos on all mixed and water ice but have switched to duals if expecting softer ice or a lot of snow bashing. I've got my best set of points for ice and blunter pairs for mixed and dry tooling. Change them fairly regularly depending what I expect to be climbing so that I keep my ice pair really sharp. A little faff but a lot less filing of front points in the long term. Modular crampons weigh a bit more but a lot more flexible with set-ups.
For mixed routes I could not imagine using anything but monos. The spacing of dual points makes any foot placement less than 4cm width awkward. Difficult to point load anything small. I can't really control the direction of force on small placements so easily with duals.
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In reply to GarethSL:
By adjustable length do you mean a toe bail bar that you can move forward and backwards in the holes at the front of the crampon? Can you give an example of a crampon that you think isn't adjustable for length?
By adjustable length do you mean a toe bail bar that you can move forward and backwards in the holes at the front of the crampon? Can you give an example of a crampon that you think isn't adjustable for length?
Post edited at 09:37
In reply to GarethSL/OP:
would definitely recommend for the average punter a pair of modular adjustable crampons, then you can work out things for yourself. all very well having dedicated single point pairs but more expensive to buy and then need to replace whole thing when front point wears away. bit specialist for joe average winter climber i imo. if money is an issue, the G14s are actually cheaper in the long run as the same AB plates work for mono and duo, whereas for instance the BD equivalent (I have got these, but can't remember the name) require new AB plates for the other setup, which is another 30 odd quid. Not sure of AB compatibility with other brands.
would definitely recommend for the average punter a pair of modular adjustable crampons, then you can work out things for yourself. all very well having dedicated single point pairs but more expensive to buy and then need to replace whole thing when front point wears away. bit specialist for joe average winter climber i imo. if money is an issue, the G14s are actually cheaper in the long run as the same AB plates work for mono and duo, whereas for instance the BD equivalent (I have got these, but can't remember the name) require new AB plates for the other setup, which is another 30 odd quid. Not sure of AB compatibility with other brands.
In reply to d508934:
I personally don't rate G14's that much as mono's the mono point sits in a higher position than the twin points and then the boot sole only has contact to that at the front instead of being distributed across the whole crampon.
I personally don't rate G14's that much as mono's the mono point sits in a higher position than the twin points and then the boot sole only has contact to that at the front instead of being distributed across the whole crampon.
Post edited at 09:40
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Sorry, I mean one that's adjustable with the front points too. Not just the bindings.
Crampons like the Grivel G20 or the Petzl Dart aren't.
Sorry, I mean one that's adjustable with the front points too. Not just the bindings.
Crampons like the Grivel G20 or the Petzl Dart aren't.
In reply to GarethSL:
what in to twin or mono? You can't actually move the points them selves backwards and forwards on the stingers can you?
I'm trying to make sense of your point.
" Otherwise I guarantee you will be moaning that they aren't long enough, keep popping off and that you get no contact with your secondary points, which is essential for a stable stance."
what in to twin or mono? You can't actually move the points them selves backwards and forwards on the stingers can you?
I'm trying to make sense of your point.
" Otherwise I guarantee you will be moaning that they aren't long enough, keep popping off and that you get no contact with your secondary points, which is essential for a stable stance."
Post edited at 10:04
In reply to CurlyStevo:
interesting point. i remember comments at the time i bought the BD ones that the mono point on G14s was superior as it projected further forward than the BDs, and was not in the midle of the boot but nearer big toe, which was supposed to make it a bit more natural feeling. would indeed be weird if mono on G14 is higher as well as projecting further.
anyone know if DMM are doing any new crampons at some point?
interesting point. i remember comments at the time i bought the BD ones that the mono point on G14s was superior as it projected further forward than the BDs, and was not in the midle of the boot but nearer big toe, which was supposed to make it a bit more natural feeling. would indeed be weird if mono on G14 is higher as well as projecting further.
anyone know if DMM are doing any new crampons at some point?
In reply to d508934:
see the holes in this image
http://www.urbanrock.com/global/php/ml_image.php?path=Products/g14-front-po...
the ones further away from the point are the mono holes. the back of the point is held at the same level in the crampon and the screw the hole goes through doesn't change where its attached. Its pretty obvious the angle on the front point will be different and also the point will be higher in the frame. (ps I've done it)
see the holes in this image
http://www.urbanrock.com/global/php/ml_image.php?path=Products/g14-front-po...
the ones further away from the point are the mono holes. the back of the point is held at the same level in the crampon and the screw the hole goes through doesn't change where its attached. Its pretty obvious the angle on the front point will be different and also the point will be higher in the frame. (ps I've done it)
Post edited at 10:09
In reply to CurlyStevo:
What Gareth is saying is that on the lynx crampons (Not sure if you can with the stingers) you can not only move the toebail but also you have the option to adjust the actual front points backwards and forwards.
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/107319665
cheers
Gaz
What Gareth is saying is that on the lynx crampons (Not sure if you can with the stingers) you can not only move the toebail but also you have the option to adjust the actual front points backwards and forwards.
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/107319665
cheers
Gaz
Post edited at 10:17
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Agh! sorry, the days brainfart! I had to dig them out and check, I was positive that the front point was adjustable too, but it is only the bails. It was my old rambos that had the adjustable length.
As for my point, its common that people don't adjust their crampons so that you get enough purchase with both the front and secondary points. With the secondary points being under the foot instead of protruding out in front of it. Leaving you with only your front points when it gets steep.
Took some digging but all is explained here: http://coldthistle.blogspot.no/2013/01/whats-point.html
Agh! sorry, the days brainfart! I had to dig them out and check, I was positive that the front point was adjustable too, but it is only the bails. It was my old rambos that had the adjustable length.
As for my point, its common that people don't adjust their crampons so that you get enough purchase with both the front and secondary points. With the secondary points being under the foot instead of protruding out in front of it. Leaving you with only your front points when it gets steep.
Took some digging but all is explained here: http://coldthistle.blogspot.no/2013/01/whats-point.html
In reply to Andy Clarke1965:
The Petzl Lynx are a brilliant pair of crampons. I really like that all you need to adjust them from duel, mono or asymmetric points is 1 alan key as Petzl have cleverly designed the spine of the crampon to include a wrench for use on the nut.
Pretty good design!
The Petzl Lynx are a brilliant pair of crampons. I really like that all you need to adjust them from duel, mono or asymmetric points is 1 alan key as Petzl have cleverly designed the spine of the crampon to include a wrench for use on the nut.
Pretty good design!
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In reply to GarethSL:
Sure...... I didn't think the stingers or cyborgs could be adjusted like you were saying!
Sure...... I didn't think the stingers or cyborgs could be adjusted like you were saying!
In reply to Martin McKenna - Rockfax:
I have a quick question about setting up the Petzl Lynx as I own a pair and have been struggling with engaging the secondary front points on steeper ice.
From the picture here: http://www.mountainproject.com/v/107319665 you can see the secondary front point tips are pretty much in line vertically with the nut and bolt attachment for the front points. So unless heels are well, well down then I find it tricky to engage the secondary points, especially so once they've worn back a bit after use on mixed. Any tips on this or is it more a footwork technique issue?
Many thanks,
Dave
I have a quick question about setting up the Petzl Lynx as I own a pair and have been struggling with engaging the secondary front points on steeper ice.
From the picture here: http://www.mountainproject.com/v/107319665 you can see the secondary front point tips are pretty much in line vertically with the nut and bolt attachment for the front points. So unless heels are well, well down then I find it tricky to engage the secondary points, especially so once they've worn back a bit after use on mixed. Any tips on this or is it more a footwork technique issue?
Many thanks,
Dave
In reply to The Ex-Engineer:
Nice offer, i'm still undecided, after all i have used dual points for decades and climbed up to Vll with no issues, now being fatter and weaker, i'm just looking for an advantage.
Thanks every one for refreshing the grey matter, as to the pro's and cons of mono's.
Nice offer, i'm still undecided, after all i have used dual points for decades and climbed up to Vll with no issues, now being fatter and weaker, i'm just looking for an advantage.
Thanks every one for refreshing the grey matter, as to the pro's and cons of mono's.
In reply to MrRiley:
If you move your toe bail back a notch to pull your foot backwards and retract the front point, you will engage the secondary points earlier to provide more stability. That's what I found with my Lynx anyway.
If you move your toe bail back a notch to pull your foot backwards and retract the front point, you will engage the secondary points earlier to provide more stability. That's what I found with my Lynx anyway.
In reply to MrRiley:
It's technique and design issue.
As far as I know, Rambo 4's are the best in this regard. The secondary points are really aggressive (ie. go forward). Austria Alpin SkySteep is a bit better than Lynx (which again is better than G14). Can't say much about BD as haven't fiddled around with the Stinger, but the Cyborgs are pretty bad (about the same as G14s).
> Any tips on this or is it more a footwork technique issue?
It's technique and design issue.
As far as I know, Rambo 4's are the best in this regard. The secondary points are really aggressive (ie. go forward). Austria Alpin SkySteep is a bit better than Lynx (which again is better than G14). Can't say much about BD as haven't fiddled around with the Stinger, but the Cyborgs are pretty bad (about the same as G14s).
In reply to Andy Clarke1965:
Have never used mono's but have climbed plenty of routes with mates wearing them. It has never held me back and usual you will find the odd foot placement better than a friend with mono's and vice versa. Ie you figure it out with the tools you have.
Have never used mono's but have climbed plenty of routes with mates wearing them. It has never held me back and usual you will find the odd foot placement better than a friend with mono's and vice versa. Ie you figure it out with the tools you have.
In reply to BnB:
Okay, thanks, will have a look at that, but this does mean shortening the front points which I'm a bit loathe to do
Okay, thanks, will have a look at that, but this does mean shortening the front points which I'm a bit loathe to do
In reply to MrRiley:
not if you bring the toe bail bar back as that makes the points protrude more. The two actions will likely cancel each other out, but engage the secondary points more.
not if you bring the toe bail bar back as that makes the points protrude more. The two actions will likely cancel each other out, but engage the secondary points more.
Post edited at 15:30
In reply to Andy Clarke1965:
I've used a variety of mono points over the years [Rambos, Terminators, Darts etc] largely backed up by a few generations of BD Sabretooths for more snow/ neve based routes where horizontal points are often more secure. Looking at the new BD Snaggletooths I have a feeling they may be a great solution in Scotland for a whole range of climbing. They have a very similar/ identical front and secondary point profile to the Sabretooths which I've always found really secure on ice and the slightly chiselled tip seems to give you a bit more margin for error on small edges. Theoretically it's the best of both worlds but has anyone tried a pair? They'd probably be less good on really hard or brittle ice and not so good for standing in your pick placements or using really narrow cracks but beyond that I can't see many down sides.
I've used a variety of mono points over the years [Rambos, Terminators, Darts etc] largely backed up by a few generations of BD Sabretooths for more snow/ neve based routes where horizontal points are often more secure. Looking at the new BD Snaggletooths I have a feeling they may be a great solution in Scotland for a whole range of climbing. They have a very similar/ identical front and secondary point profile to the Sabretooths which I've always found really secure on ice and the slightly chiselled tip seems to give you a bit more margin for error on small edges. Theoretically it's the best of both worlds but has anyone tried a pair? They'd probably be less good on really hard or brittle ice and not so good for standing in your pick placements or using really narrow cracks but beyond that I can't see many down sides.
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In reply to CurlyStevo:
Exactly what I discovered. Not to mention that, with the toe bail set back, the bar creates a lot of calf-busting leverage on mixed placements at its longer setting.
> not if you bring the toe bail bar back as that makes the points protrude more. The two actions will likely cancel each other out, but engage the secondary points more.
Exactly what I discovered. Not to mention that, with the toe bail set back, the bar creates a lot of calf-busting leverage on mixed placements at its longer setting.
In reply to Andy Clarke1965:
Go with the g14/Lynx option if you're unsure. If you can wait it might be worth seeing if Petzl are going to release a changeable front point dart.
Go with the g14/Lynx option if you're unsure. If you can wait it might be worth seeing if Petzl are going to release a changeable front point dart.
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In reply to Andy Clarke1965:
Having swapped back between classics and monos lots over the last few winters, I came to the conclusion that people have way stronger opinions on this question than are really justified. When ice is warmer then (I reckon) around -15 I'm not sure how big a difference there is really. Once the ice is super dense around -20 monos are better (although ice climbing is still a bit crappy at those temperatures. Fresh, new, non-uniformed ice can be a bit crap with monos - the spikes goes between icicles and doesn't get much purchase. With twin points the act of kicking out a foothold is easier.
I think its all swings and roundabouts. Probably the ones that you think look the coolest will work the best for you!
Having swapped back between classics and monos lots over the last few winters, I came to the conclusion that people have way stronger opinions on this question than are really justified. When ice is warmer then (I reckon) around -15 I'm not sure how big a difference there is really. Once the ice is super dense around -20 monos are better (although ice climbing is still a bit crappy at those temperatures. Fresh, new, non-uniformed ice can be a bit crap with monos - the spikes goes between icicles and doesn't get much purchase. With twin points the act of kicking out a foothold is easier.
I think its all swings and roundabouts. Probably the ones that you think look the coolest will work the best for you!
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In reply to Andy Clarke1965:
Just changed my G14s back to dual after a few seasons of mono. Admittedly, these haven't been very active seasons but there were too many occasions of faffing about just trying to get to the route with the monos not providing sufficient traction. I shall probably end up getting another pair and having one mono and one dual.
(Or the the wonderful Chouinards are still in the back of the cupboard!)
Just changed my G14s back to dual after a few seasons of mono. Admittedly, these haven't been very active seasons but there were too many occasions of faffing about just trying to get to the route with the monos not providing sufficient traction. I shall probably end up getting another pair and having one mono and one dual.
(Or the the wonderful Chouinards are still in the back of the cupboard!)
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In reply to CurlyStevo:
Well yes, but climb another metre and the other style will be an advantage for that foot placement.
They aren't like the difference between riding a mountain bike and road bike, they are like two very similar types of mountain bike. If you've got nothing better to do and want a discussion on the internet, mono or duals are a great discussion to have, but real world? It's just not that a biggy for most of us.
Like I said, swings and roundabouts.
Having two pairs is the obvious solution! But then you'll still get it "wrong" from time to time and take the wrong ones to the crag for conditions that day. I don't think I've ever failed to climb because I had the wrong type of crampons! Then again I still climbed on the day I got to the Cobbler North Face only to find I had forgotten my harness.
> But on aerated ice, neve, unconsolidated snow or mixed it can make a difference.
Well yes, but climb another metre and the other style will be an advantage for that foot placement.
They aren't like the difference between riding a mountain bike and road bike, they are like two very similar types of mountain bike. If you've got nothing better to do and want a discussion on the internet, mono or duals are a great discussion to have, but real world? It's just not that a biggy for most of us.
Like I said, swings and roundabouts.
Having two pairs is the obvious solution! But then you'll still get it "wrong" from time to time and take the wrong ones to the crag for conditions that day. I don't think I've ever failed to climb because I had the wrong type of crampons! Then again I still climbed on the day I got to the Cobbler North Face only to find I had forgotten my harness.
Post edited at 19:31
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In reply to TobyA:
Well toby, i don't take the purchase of a new pair of poons lightly, have you seen the price of them! for me this is a major decision, i will probably climb for a sum total of one week this winter and have already forked out for new boots, first world problems yes, if i try something new and there is some advantage, a big brucey bonus.
You seemed to be suggesting there is no difference between dual and mono? i would suggest if you find this pointless thread anal, to move along, i'm sure your'e expertise is wasted here.
PS. thank you for the input Jim, i really am coming round to the idea that sticking with what i know is probably the right choice, we wouldn't want little johnny to go without an Xbox this christmas would we!.
Well toby, i don't take the purchase of a new pair of poons lightly, have you seen the price of them! for me this is a major decision, i will probably climb for a sum total of one week this winter and have already forked out for new boots, first world problems yes, if i try something new and there is some advantage, a big brucey bonus.
You seemed to be suggesting there is no difference between dual and mono? i would suggest if you find this pointless thread anal, to move along, i'm sure your'e expertise is wasted here.
PS. thank you for the input Jim, i really am coming round to the idea that sticking with what i know is probably the right choice, we wouldn't want little johnny to go without an Xbox this christmas would we!.
Post edited at 19:57
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In reply to Andy Clarke1965:
Psst, if you go to Go Outdoors and ask they still have some Perzl Darts for £99. Try and get the ones with the heel balling plates, if you can't get the balling plate ones, get them anyway. (The price only shows 99 at the checkout for some reason).
Psst, if you go to Go Outdoors and ask they still have some Perzl Darts for £99. Try and get the ones with the heel balling plates, if you can't get the balling plate ones, get them anyway. (The price only shows 99 at the checkout for some reason).
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In reply to TobyA:
I hear you but when your points are ripping out of placements they don't normally it could make a huge difference, luckily so far it's not caused a fall as my axes held!
I hear you but when your points are ripping out of placements they don't normally it could make a huge difference, luckily so far it's not caused a fall as my axes held!
Post edited at 21:15
In reply to HeMa:
Re OP, sorry but I'll Hijack a bit see below. Go modular. Monos are great except on snow ice where you have to work harder (feels more insecure). Nothing is ever overkill, if you're like me, you need all the help that can be obtained...
re: G14 HeMa
I have noticed before that people have real gripes against them. Mine have been fine. I have tried other things on occasions and never noticed a huge difference. Am I just a dumb French man?
This is not trolling but a real question: what would you list as G14s faults?
Re OP, sorry but I'll Hijack a bit see below. Go modular. Monos are great except on snow ice where you have to work harder (feels more insecure). Nothing is ever overkill, if you're like me, you need all the help that can be obtained...
re: G14 HeMa
I have noticed before that people have real gripes against them. Mine have been fine. I have tried other things on occasions and never noticed a huge difference. Am I just a dumb French man?
This is not trolling but a real question: what would you list as G14s faults?
In reply to French Erick:
What boots do you use with them? I've found the stock g14 bails don't allow enough front point protrusion with Nepals or freneys, I now use Rambo 4 bails on them with freneys and that works better. The stock bails are made for very wide boots with a very high welt (basically plastics) compared with modern boots imo.
What boots do you use with them? I've found the stock g14 bails don't allow enough front point protrusion with Nepals or freneys, I now use Rambo 4 bails on them with freneys and that works better. The stock bails are made for very wide boots with a very high welt (basically plastics) compared with modern boots imo.
In reply to CurlyStevo:
Freneys and I use the straighter bar. It's always worked fairly well for me. I sometime wish that my inside teeth were a bit closer to the foot (last tooth of the front plate) but that's about as bad as I can complain. My footwork is probably so bad that any crampons would do me fine.
I think I'll start a Love/Hate G14 thread to avoid highjacking this one too much.
Apologies Fergal.
Freneys and I use the straighter bar. It's always worked fairly well for me. I sometime wish that my inside teeth were a bit closer to the foot (last tooth of the front plate) but that's about as bad as I can complain. My footwork is probably so bad that any crampons would do me fine.
I think I'll start a Love/Hate G14 thread to avoid highjacking this one too much.
Apologies Fergal.
In reply to Andy Clarke1965:
No Fergal, rather the opposite. If you get some modern, well designed crampons that are either dual point, mono point or modular (so can be either) I suspect you'll have a great time climbing with any of them! Pick which ones fit your boots well and look really cool - they will almost certainly be the best! I reviewed these Edelrid ones a couple of winters back: http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=6227 I wouldn't recommend them for the reason I go into in the review but they do an all steel version which might be worth a look - the front point changing system is so quick and easy (unlike, say, the Terminators I've used for years and years) you could literally take the allen key in your pocket and change them from dual to mono at the CIC hut should the mood take you.
I agree that the prices do seem to have gone up noticeably over the last 5 years or so, so it is an investment. Climbing Technology are well worth a look from that perspective. I really rated their basic 12 point ones a few years back http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=3300 as basic all rounders (although I climbed short bits of vertical ice ok with them), mainly just because of the very fair price - but their more technical model this winter looks good.
I actually started writing an article for my blog a couple of years ago about dual versus mono but never finished it, maybe I should as its something that regularly gets discussed. I did do this quick post way back when that was prompted by a UKC discussion on this very subject http://lightfromthenorth.blogspot.co.uk/2007/02/monopoints_06.html and the point still stands I think! Enjoy your climbing which ever you go for.
No Fergal, rather the opposite. If you get some modern, well designed crampons that are either dual point, mono point or modular (so can be either) I suspect you'll have a great time climbing with any of them! Pick which ones fit your boots well and look really cool - they will almost certainly be the best! I reviewed these Edelrid ones a couple of winters back: http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=6227 I wouldn't recommend them for the reason I go into in the review but they do an all steel version which might be worth a look - the front point changing system is so quick and easy (unlike, say, the Terminators I've used for years and years) you could literally take the allen key in your pocket and change them from dual to mono at the CIC hut should the mood take you.
I agree that the prices do seem to have gone up noticeably over the last 5 years or so, so it is an investment. Climbing Technology are well worth a look from that perspective. I really rated their basic 12 point ones a few years back http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=3300 as basic all rounders (although I climbed short bits of vertical ice ok with them), mainly just because of the very fair price - but their more technical model this winter looks good.
I actually started writing an article for my blog a couple of years ago about dual versus mono but never finished it, maybe I should as its something that regularly gets discussed. I did do this quick post way back when that was prompted by a UKC discussion on this very subject http://lightfromthenorth.blogspot.co.uk/2007/02/monopoints_06.html and the point still stands I think! Enjoy your climbing which ever you go for.
1
1
In reply to French Erick:
I'm not sure about the dumb but surprisingly un-nationalistic! Buying crampons from the wrong side of Monte Bianco - Mon Dieu! Whatever next! You'll be telling us you drive a Fiat not a Citroen!
> Am I just a dumb French man?
I'm not sure about the dumb but surprisingly un-nationalistic! Buying crampons from the wrong side of Monte Bianco - Mon Dieu! Whatever next! You'll be telling us you drive a Fiat not a Citroen!
In reply to Andy Clarke1965:
They certainly helped this punter to climb harder on snowed-up rock, making footwork more precise and increasing the number of features that I could use. On ice I'm less convinced, but I don't climb steep water-ice.
They certainly helped this punter to climb harder on snowed-up rock, making footwork more precise and increasing the number of features that I could use. On ice I'm less convinced, but I don't climb steep water-ice.
In reply to French Erick:
Prolly not..
The main gripe I have with them is the secondary point configuration. Meaning that on steep (cold & hard) ice, the secondary points don't contribute at all. So it's quite straining on the calfs. Grivel Air Techs are the same. And my old Darts are almost as bad.
How ever, Grivel Racing bolt-ons (and also Rambo 4s) are pretty much spot on.
Oh, and they're heavy (if you're used to to Darts).
In an ideal world, Grivel would make the Racing front to work with G14s and then they'd be a bomb.
> re: G14 HeMa
> Am I just a dumb French man?
Prolly not..
> This is not trolling but a real question: what would you list as G14s faults?
The main gripe I have with them is the secondary point configuration. Meaning that on steep (cold & hard) ice, the secondary points don't contribute at all. So it's quite straining on the calfs. Grivel Air Techs are the same. And my old Darts are almost as bad.
How ever, Grivel Racing bolt-ons (and also Rambo 4s) are pretty much spot on.
Oh, and they're heavy (if you're used to to Darts).
In an ideal world, Grivel would make the Racing front to work with G14s and then they'd be a bomb.
In reply to TobyA:
On ice it's more personal preference, but on V+ mixed monos are definitely the way to go.
On ice it's more personal preference, but on V+ mixed monos are definitely the way to go.
In reply to Andy Clarke1965:
I've used mono points exclusively for the past 2 years on scottish ice, scottish mixed and alpine ice and I haven't had a situation where I wished I had dual points. For anything grade V and above there's no question, monos are the way to go
I've used mono points exclusively for the past 2 years on scottish ice, scottish mixed and alpine ice and I haven't had a situation where I wished I had dual points. For anything grade V and above there's no question, monos are the way to go
In reply to Andy Clarke1965:
'Poons'?
What the heck are Poons?!
If you mean crampons, why not use an extra 3 letters?
'Poons'?
What the heck are Poons?!
If you mean crampons, why not use an extra 3 letters?
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