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muslem fanatics

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GriffonVulture 30 Nov 2015
what IS the answer? some say we have to bomb them others say we mustn't bomb them. Seem to me we are in a dificult position. If we bomb them they will attack us. if we dont bomb them we look like we are "soft" Does corbyn really believe you can negatiate with these people
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In reply to GriffonVulture:

No. He probably believes that you can negotiate with the influential people around them - the Saudis, Iranians, Turks and others - and help to stabilise the area and promote more moderate Muslim doctrines rather than conducting a bombing campaign that helps ISIS turn everyone in the area (and muslims elsewhere) against the war-monger infidel Westerners.
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 RyanOsborne 30 Nov 2015
In reply to GriffonVulture:

> what IS the answer? some say we have to bomb them others say we mustn't bomb them. Seem to me we are in a dificult position. If we bomb them they will attack us. if we dont bomb them we look like we are "soft" Does corbyn really believe you can negatiate with these people

In the short term - cut off the supplies of weapons from other Gulf states and provide assistance to Turkey to seal up their border with Syria to help stop IS's recruitment. In the longer term, integrate the Sunni people and work with other states in the region to bring about a better and more stable government in Syria.

It's not going to happen overnight, but at least it has a chance of working, which I don't think bombing does. In the meantime, provide MI5 with the support / finance it needs to keep foiling terrorists attacks (which seems to be relatively effective at).
 thomasadixon 30 Nov 2015
In reply to Ron Rees Davies:

What do you think he believes about the bombing we (well, the US) did at Kobane, which helped the Kurds take the city back and without which it'd probably be under IS control still? Our bombing doesn't seem to have turned them into ISIS...
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 Timmd 30 Nov 2015
In reply to thomasadixon:

It wouldn't turn the Kurds into ISIS.
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 goldmember 30 Nov 2015
In reply to Timmd:

F**king museums, coming over here....
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 winhill 30 Nov 2015
In reply to Ron Rees Davies:

> No. He probably believes that you can negotiate with the influential people around them - the Saudis, Iranians, Turks and others -

He probably does, although if you're a Christian or other minority in Syria, I think the idea of giving the Saudis a say seems like a sell out. The moral case for giving anything to the Saudis, is much beyond someone like Corbyn.

> and help to stabilise the area and promote more moderate Muslim doctrines rather than conducting a bombing campaign that helps ISIS turn everyone in the area (and muslims elsewhere) against the war-monger infidel Westerners.

Slightly less murderous muslims is more better than the more murderous ones?

The Saudis and the Kuwaitis seemed more than happy to pay the Westerners to beat Saddam, any port in a storm and all that.

ISIS is focused on Iraq, half their capability is in Mosul, itself just one city, if they were going to turn people into West haters, wouldn't that have happened already, considering we are bombing them there on a regular basis?

 ByEek 30 Nov 2015
In reply to GriffonVulture:

I heard an interesting piece on the radio about stories. In recruiting new members, IS tell some very compelling stories that resonate with those listening. They commentator suggested that the west need to start putting out different stories to counter IS. Not propaganda, just stories that can be told and retold. In other words, this could be a battle of persuasion rather than aggression.

Alas few politicians would accept that when there are lucrative arms contracts to be signed and profits to be made.
 ajsteele 30 Nov 2015
In reply to winhill:

> He probably does, although if you're a Christian or other minority in Syria, I think the idea of giving the Saudis a say seems like a sell out. The moral case for giving anything to the Saudis, is much beyond someone like Corbyn.

Giving the Saudis a say would definitely be a sell out to any sensible person, it's quite clear that far from being part of a solution, Saudi is very much the crux of the problem.

> ISIS is focused on Iraq, half their capability is in Mosul, itself just one city, if they were going to turn people into West haters, wouldn't that have happened already, considering we are bombing them there on a regular basis?

Is the idea here not that with millions of Syrians fleeing Assad (more fleeing Assad than ISIS, I seem to recall) to come to Europe, to then see your new country effectively helping Assad and potentially bombing some of your family members unfortunate enough to still be in Raqqa may cause discontent amongst a group of people who are already vulnerable to extremist recruiters?
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 mp3ferret 30 Nov 2015
In reply to GriffonVulture:
Get a UN resolution.

Make a long line of soldiers and walk across the troublesome countries. If the people you meet are compliant, help them aboard a plane to somewhere else. If they aren't - kill them.

Turn the entire middle east to glass!

Stop selling arms to dodgy people.
Post edited at 15:32
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 Timmd 30 Nov 2015
In reply to winhill:

> ISIS is focused on Iraq, half their capability is in Mosul, itself just one city, if they were going to turn people into West haters, wouldn't that have happened already, considering we are bombing them there on a regular basis?

Are you saying ISIS don't hate the West?
 neilh 30 Nov 2015
In reply to RyanOsborne:

Its part of a strategy. In a way like other peace processes . You have to both negotiate and do the military stuff, unfortunately each on their own rarely appears to work.Looking back at Northern Ireland, that is how in the end the peace deal was brokered. People tend to forget that the IRA was militarily squeezed as well as there being behind the scenes negotaitions, the intervention of the USA etc.
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 thomasadixon 30 Nov 2015
In reply to Timmd:

I know, it's obvious. Which is why a statement saying this, "a bombing campaign that helps ISIS turn everyone in the area (and muslims elsewhere) against the war-monger infidel Westerners." is so obviously false that it's worth contradicting. Especially when it gets so many likes!

Muslims, and those in the middle east, are not a mass and don't react as one. Bombing isn't random, and arguing against bombing from a blanket position of all bombs are bad is silly.
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 Timmd 30 Nov 2015
In reply to thomasadixon:

I'm sure I've read or heard that rates of radicalisation go up after bombings take place. I'm engrossed in the middle of work until late December at the moment, or else I'd google about it, but it's definitely something I've picked up.
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 Wsdconst 30 Nov 2015
In reply to goldmember:

> F**king museums, coming over here....

Taking our artefacts
 Andy Morley 30 Nov 2015
In reply to Ron Rees Davies:

> No. He probably believes that you can negotiate with the influential people around them - the Saudis, Iranians, Turks and others - and help to stabilise the area and promote more moderate Muslim doctrines

What's moderate about the Saudis? Meanwhile Turkey's new elected dictator is more the enemy of the Kurds than he is of ISIS and the Kurds are pretty much the only people with troops on the ground who are in a position to take on ISIS right now.

 Dave the Rave 30 Nov 2015
In reply to GriffonVulture:
Leave Corbyn alone. He is a good man and is standing up for the non bombing of civilians. Should we bomb areas of our major towns?
No.
My suggestion is that we 'westernise' these cretins.
The drones should fly over Syria etc pumping out the latest tunes with placards of men and women dressed in modern fashion. THEN we should bomb them with clothing from Nike and Boss. They would soon give up. Add in a few Christmas songs from Bob Geldif and they would all want to be Western.
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 Brass Nipples 30 Nov 2015
In reply to Wsdconst:

> Taking our artefacts

And turning them into ruins..
 Wsdconst 30 Nov 2015
In reply to Dave the Rave:

> My suggestion is that we 'westernise' these cretins.

> The drones should fly over Syria etc pumping out the latest tunes with placards of men and women dressed in modern fashion. THEN we should bomb them with clothing from Nike and Boss. They would soon give up. Add in a few Christmas songs from Bob Geldif and they would all want to be Western.

I think you're on to something here,give them mcdonalds,Facebook,pornhub and tinder they'll be too preoccupied to bother about they're regime anymore.and after watching pornhub they're arms will be too tired to hold a gun.
 Simon4 30 Nov 2015
In reply to Dave the Rave:
> Leave Corbyn alone.

No, shan't!

> He is a good man

No, he is a Marxist who hates this country, with no ability, integrity or intelligence.

> Should we bomb areas of our major towns?

Luton, Tower Hamlets, bits of Bradford? You might just have something there.

> My suggestion is that we 'westernise' these cretins.

They know all about Western ways, despise them and still want to impose their medieval barbarism as decreed by their brutal warlord "prophet".
Post edited at 19:29
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 Dave the Rave 30 Nov 2015
In reply to Wsdconst:

> I think you're on to something here,give them mcdonalds,Facebook,pornhub and tinder they'll be too preoccupied to bother about they're regime anymore.and after watching pornhub they're arms will be too tired to hold a gun.

They just don't know any different. Give them a choice and I'm sure they'd choose reality. Any prisoners we take should be force fed a diet of Maccy D's and made to live a northern lifestyle. 5 pints for tea and then fish and chips with a footy match on the box. I bet of they opened a ' northern town' in Syria, then they'd all want to go.
 Ridge 30 Nov 2015
In reply to Dave the Rave:

> They just don't know any different. Give them a choice and I'm sure they'd choose reality. Any prisoners we take should be force fed a diet of Maccy D's and made to live a northern lifestyle. 5 pints for tea and then fish and chips with a footy match on the box. I bet of they opened a ' northern town' in Syria, then they'd all want to go.

The only slight problem in that cunning plan is that half of IS actually come from Bradford, so we might need to consider a Plan B...
In reply to Ridge:

Bradford have a sh*t footy team though, maybe that's why they are so p*ssed off

Belgium has an under_performing footy team yet provides the greatest number of jihadists (pro rata) from Western Europe. Coincidence?
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 Ridge 30 Nov 2015
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

> Bradford have a sh*t footy team though, maybe that's why they are so p*ssed off

> Belgium has an under_performing footy team yet provides the greatest number of jihadists (pro rata) from Western Europe. Coincidence?

Interesting. We could be onto something here...

 Wsdconst 30 Nov 2015
In reply to Dave the Rave:

> They just don't know any different. Give them a choice and I'm sure they'd choose reality. Any prisoners we take should be force fed a diet of Maccy D's and made to live a northern lifestyle. 5 pints for tea and then fish and chips with a footy match on the box. I bet of they opened a ' northern town' in Syria, then they'd all want to go.

They'd probably just change they're targets from westerners to southern shandy drinkers, but would that be a bad thing ?
 aln 30 Nov 2015
In reply to GriffonVulture:

Aren't they called muslin's?
 Jon Stewart 30 Nov 2015
In reply to Simon4:

One day you'll learn to be as good at ignorance and mock-racism as Katie Hopkins.
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In reply to Graeme Alderson:
> Bradford have a sh*t footy team though, maybe that's why they are so p*ssed off

> Belgium has an under_performing footy team yet provides the greatest number of jihadists (pro rata) from Western Europe. Coincidence?

yes... because by that reckoning, Scotland should pretty much be Raqqa....

Post edited at 21:21
In reply to Jon Stewart:

I often think that Simon4 is already a master of ignorance. Unfortunately his racism seems real rather than mock.
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Removed User 30 Nov 2015
In reply to Simon4:

Put it away!
1
 Ridge 30 Nov 2015
In reply to aln:

> Aren't they called muslin's?

Muslamics. With Ray guns.

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