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The number of drivers failing to indicate seems to have become an epidemic in my part of the world, and getting noticeably worse.
Is this a South East phenomenon? What's it like in other parts of the country?
I suppose that technically it might be classed as "Driving without Due Care and Attention".
Is this a South East phenomenon? What's it like in other parts of the country?
I suppose that technically it might be classed as "Driving without Due Care and Attention".
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In reply to Trangia:
Obviously a lot of BMW's Audis and Mercs in you area. Apparently indicators are only fitted to those marques as 'optional extras'.
Obviously a lot of BMW's Audis and Mercs in you area. Apparently indicators are only fitted to those marques as 'optional extras'.
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In reply to Trangia:
They're an optional extra on BMWs, it seems. And cars driven by young people. And old people. And cars with young people or old people in them. And everyone else bar a small minority.
Harrumph. I blame Jeremy Corbyn.
Col. F T Potherington-Smythe (rtd)
They're an optional extra on BMWs, it seems. And cars driven by young people. And old people. And cars with young people or old people in them. And everyone else bar a small minority.
Harrumph. I blame Jeremy Corbyn.
Col. F T Potherington-Smythe (rtd)
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In reply to Trangia:
There's an urban myth amongst Audi drivers that the indicator stalks are actually connected to a small amount of C4 explosive under the drivers seat.
It's fairly embedded in the Audi community, apparently.
There's an urban myth amongst Audi drivers that the indicator stalks are actually connected to a small amount of C4 explosive under the drivers seat.
It's fairly embedded in the Audi community, apparently.
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In reply to Trangia:
I've only been driving for 5 years or so (in London), seems a lot of people,don't indicate, usually it's not a problem but I've nearly been knocked off my bike because of it.
The thing that seems to have increased is people driving though lights changing from amber to red, I see this a lot, or people going though a red light just after it's changed.
I've only been driving for 5 years or so (in London), seems a lot of people,don't indicate, usually it's not a problem but I've nearly been knocked off my bike because of it.
The thing that seems to have increased is people driving though lights changing from amber to red, I see this a lot, or people going though a red light just after it's changed.
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In reply to Lord of Starkness:
In my area it's the Skodas which are driven manically. Trying to prove something I guess.
Dislike away...
In my area it's the Skodas which are driven manically. Trying to prove something I guess.
Dislike away...
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In reply to jasonC abroad:
I've started to refer to amber as Bristol green.
T.
> The thing that seems to have increased is people driving though lights changing from amber to red
I've started to refer to amber as Bristol green.
T.
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In reply to Trangia:
Much the same, it seems to me. Drivers around here seem particularly unable to be arsed to indicate left prior to leaving a roundabout.
> What's it like in other parts of the country?
Much the same, it seems to me. Drivers around here seem particularly unable to be arsed to indicate left prior to leaving a roundabout.
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In reply to Trangia:
Maybe you need to get your eyes tested?
I'm disappointed with the trajectory of this thread. I was hoping it was going to spin off into a BMW/Mercedes no good in snow direction but it seems to have settled down into the standard issue 'everyone but me' theme. Hopefully some snow will fall soon and we'll get some proper rwdphobia entertainment.
Maybe you need to get your eyes tested?
I'm disappointed with the trajectory of this thread. I was hoping it was going to spin off into a BMW/Mercedes no good in snow direction but it seems to have settled down into the standard issue 'everyone but me' theme. Hopefully some snow will fall soon and we'll get some proper rwdphobia entertainment.
In reply to Trangia:
What annoys me just as much is people who indicate just after they have started to turn - too bloody late by then isn't it!
Another thing that seems to have been forgotten is the meaning of amber on traffic lights. Now seems to be Green = go, Amber = go, Red = stop unless it would be unsafe to do so.
What annoys me just as much is people who indicate just after they have started to turn - too bloody late by then isn't it!
Another thing that seems to have been forgotten is the meaning of amber on traffic lights. Now seems to be Green = go, Amber = go, Red = stop unless it would be unsafe to do so.
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In reply to r0b:
It's very annoying when you're cycling and need to anticipate how you're going to have to use energy and build up momentum etc, drivers can just put their foot down.
I've noticed that.
> What annoys me just as much is people who indicate just after they have started to turn - too bloody late by then isn't it!
It's very annoying when you're cycling and need to anticipate how you're going to have to use energy and build up momentum etc, drivers can just put their foot down.
> Another thing that seems to have been forgotten is the meaning of amber on traffic lights. Now seems to be Green = go, Amber = go, Red = stop unless it would be unsafe to do so.
I've noticed that.
Post edited at 13:32
In reply to Trangia:
It's Audi drivers.....Did you know that the Chinese for Audi is " Wan" and the Chinese for "driver" is ker?
It's Audi drivers.....Did you know that the Chinese for Audi is " Wan" and the Chinese for "driver" is ker?
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In reply to Trangia:
I blame the skyrocketing prices on indicator light bulbs. Better save money not using them.
I blame the skyrocketing prices on indicator light bulbs. Better save money not using them.
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In reply to jasonC abroad:
It's all just laziness really. The 'acceptable' time period for drivers to go through red lights seems to be increasing, I regularly see drivers going through 2 or 3 seconds after the light has gone red, crossing the stop line as the lights are turning green for cars coming from the other direction.
> I've only been driving for 5 years or so (in London), seems a lot of people,don't indicate, usually it's not a problem but I've nearly been knocked off my bike because of it.
> The thing that seems to have increased is people driving though lights changing from amber to red, I see this a lot, or people going though a red light just after it's changed.
It's all just laziness really. The 'acceptable' time period for drivers to go through red lights seems to be increasing, I regularly see drivers going through 2 or 3 seconds after the light has gone red, crossing the stop line as the lights are turning green for cars coming from the other direction.
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In reply to Trangia:
Same around here.
Re: Audis. The indicators are only visible from the inside. According to the guy in the Vauxhall Mokka who T-boned mine when he assumed I'd driven away from a junction.
Same around here.
Re: Audis. The indicators are only visible from the inside. According to the guy in the Vauxhall Mokka who T-boned mine when he assumed I'd driven away from a junction.
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In reply to Trangia:
We get it a lot in the Midlands as well, so it's not purely a south east phenomena. And down the road from me there's a crossroads where the traffic light system has always been green for go, amber for go, and red for go but no more than four or five of you. I expect the council takes the corpses of pedestrians away in the night.
We get it a lot in the Midlands as well, so it's not purely a south east phenomena. And down the road from me there's a crossroads where the traffic light system has always been green for go, amber for go, and red for go but no more than four or five of you. I expect the council takes the corpses of pedestrians away in the night.
Post edited at 14:12
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In reply to Trangia:
I struggle with their use as much as their lack of use. The system in the highway code is check mirror and if the way is clear then indicate and manouvre; the practice is all too often just indicate then manouvre (ie I'm coming out so back off or beware).
I've travelled with obssesive people who moan that indicators should be used when they are irrelevant (esp marked feeder lanes before a turn) and when they don't really matter (no one else for miles).
I struggle with their use as much as their lack of use. The system in the highway code is check mirror and if the way is clear then indicate and manouvre; the practice is all too often just indicate then manouvre (ie I'm coming out so back off or beware).
I've travelled with obssesive people who moan that indicators should be used when they are irrelevant (esp marked feeder lanes before a turn) and when they don't really matter (no one else for miles).
Post edited at 14:14
In reply to deepsoup:
That is one of the most annoying failures to indicate particularly when you are waiting to join a busy runabout with few windows of opportunity.
Also in busy car parks where driving is more like a free for all with no one indicating. Can be a nightmare for pedestrians.....
> Much the same, it seems to me. Drivers around here seem particularly unable to be arsed to indicate left prior to leaving a roundabout.
That is one of the most annoying failures to indicate particularly when you are waiting to join a busy runabout with few windows of opportunity.
Also in busy car parks where driving is more like a free for all with no one indicating. Can be a nightmare for pedestrians.....
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In reply to Trangia:
Round here, people seldom indicate, only look to the direction of traffic flow when pulling out completely oblivious to foot traffic crossing in front of them from the opposite direction, feel its ok to drive straight over crossings as long as you have walked less than 2ft into their lane and take red lights as a guideline...
pretty much everyday some asshat nearly runs me over
Round here, people seldom indicate, only look to the direction of traffic flow when pulling out completely oblivious to foot traffic crossing in front of them from the opposite direction, feel its ok to drive straight over crossings as long as you have walked less than 2ft into their lane and take red lights as a guideline...
pretty much everyday some asshat nearly runs me over
Post edited at 14:58
In reply to Pursued by a bear:
I though this was a Liverpool thing and I don't think it's new: I noticed it when I moved to Liverpool in 2000!
> I've started to refer to amber as Bristol green.
I though this was a Liverpool thing and I don't think it's new: I noticed it when I moved to Liverpool in 2000!
In reply to Offwidth:
Re marked lanes, yes you should still use them in some cases. Not everyone can see the markings IE people behind you or in front as you are on the one single painted arrow, also not everyone will understand them IE non drivers.
Indicators are for all road users & that includes pedestrians & other non licensed drivers.
> I've travelled with obssesive people who moan that indicators should be used when they are irrelevant (esp marked feeder lanes before a turn) and when they don't really matter (no one else for miles).
Re marked lanes, yes you should still use them in some cases. Not everyone can see the markings IE people behind you or in front as you are on the one single painted arrow, also not everyone will understand them IE non drivers.
Indicators are for all road users & that includes pedestrians & other non licensed drivers.
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In reply to Skyfall:
The indicators that came as standard on my Octavia work perfectly , despite regular use during the 3 years since I got it. Strangely enough they seem to work just as well as the ones in the previous Octavia that I had for over 9 years.
Must just be a problem with Skodas that are operated as taxis - or vRS drivers!
> In my area it's the Skodas which are driven manically. Trying to prove something I guess.
> Dislike away...
The indicators that came as standard on my Octavia work perfectly , despite regular use during the 3 years since I got it. Strangely enough they seem to work just as well as the ones in the previous Octavia that I had for over 9 years.
Must just be a problem with Skodas that are operated as taxis - or vRS drivers!
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In reply to Richard Wilson:
Great name for such a pointless moan
Sure Id indicate if it helped... thats rere though in a filter lane.
Great name for such a pointless moan
Sure Id indicate if it helped... thats rere though in a filter lane.
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In reply to Trangia:
Indication is patchy in traffic around here but if there are no other motorists around it is non-existent. I have yet to find a motorist who indicates to turn left into a side road unless there is another car about, apparently pedestrians are all psychic. However I reserve the lowest circle of hell for the tosser who knocked me down while I was crossing a side road on foot and before the rozzers arrived she went back to the car and turned the indicator on, leaving it flashing until they got there. Fortunately it was all on CCTV so she didn't have a leg to stand on.
Indication is patchy in traffic around here but if there are no other motorists around it is non-existent. I have yet to find a motorist who indicates to turn left into a side road unless there is another car about, apparently pedestrians are all psychic. However I reserve the lowest circle of hell for the tosser who knocked me down while I was crossing a side road on foot and before the rozzers arrived she went back to the car and turned the indicator on, leaving it flashing until they got there. Fortunately it was all on CCTV so she didn't have a leg to stand on.
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In reply to Trangia:
I remember when I was learning to drive, my driving instructor used to often remind me that you were only required to indicate when moving off, pulling over, or changing lanes when/if it would be useful for someone else. (At junctions you are/were required to indicate all the time). I'd typically check mirrors (probably better than I typically do now!) notice there's nobody behind, to the side, etc, then indicate anyway. He'd go mental 'There is nobody around! You do not need to indicate here! It is only when blahblahblah'. My point was that I'd determined it was safe to pull over, and there was no harm in indicating anyway, in case there was someone I was not aware of who it might be useful for. His point was that if there was a chance that there was someone that I was not aware of who it might be useful for then it wasn't safe to stop (or something like that). I said I didn't agree with him, and the following lesson he brought in an article about it from Driving Instructor Monthly or whatever. I still indicate in situations like that, mostly out of spite.
I have also noticed that it seems that fewer people indicate than they used to. This is mostly an annoyance to me:
1. When waiting to cross a road and ending up waiting for a car which isn't actually going to drive over the bit of road I'm trying to walk over;
2. When cycling, for all the reasons already mentioned;
3. When trying to join a roundabout, as someone else already described, and;
4. When you're in a lane at lights where cars can go straight on or right, and there's a large queue in the other (left-or-straight) lane. If there are two cars at the (red) lights sitting there in the right lane, you can't see the indicators on the front one, and the second one is not indicating. The lights change, the front one goes straight on, as you were hoping to, the second one only now starts indicating, leaving you stuck behind.
People seem to indicate most regularly when it's useful for them, where someone seeing which way they're going might let them out or something. I often wonder if it's the 'creep' of what my driving instructor preached; you don't really have to bother unless it's useful for someone, but applied to situations (junctions) where you're supposed to (by law) indicate even if you're the only person for miles around.
I had a chat with my Dad about indicating at roundabouts. He's 70-odd, never indicates at all at roundabouts at any point, and was totally unaware that there might be some conventions/use in doing so.
Finally, a friend of mine has a new Lotus. One of the features he's most pleased with about it is that the indicators don't make any tick-tick noise. This was removed 'as it was annoying'. He doesn't indicate any less. I believe (especially #4, potentially sitting there for a while with the indicators on) may be because of the tick noise. Yes, I know, you might get more people driving for 18 miles on the motorway with their indicator on if they didn't make noises.
I remember when I was learning to drive, my driving instructor used to often remind me that you were only required to indicate when moving off, pulling over, or changing lanes when/if it would be useful for someone else. (At junctions you are/were required to indicate all the time). I'd typically check mirrors (probably better than I typically do now!) notice there's nobody behind, to the side, etc, then indicate anyway. He'd go mental 'There is nobody around! You do not need to indicate here! It is only when blahblahblah'. My point was that I'd determined it was safe to pull over, and there was no harm in indicating anyway, in case there was someone I was not aware of who it might be useful for. His point was that if there was a chance that there was someone that I was not aware of who it might be useful for then it wasn't safe to stop (or something like that). I said I didn't agree with him, and the following lesson he brought in an article about it from Driving Instructor Monthly or whatever. I still indicate in situations like that, mostly out of spite.
I have also noticed that it seems that fewer people indicate than they used to. This is mostly an annoyance to me:
1. When waiting to cross a road and ending up waiting for a car which isn't actually going to drive over the bit of road I'm trying to walk over;
2. When cycling, for all the reasons already mentioned;
3. When trying to join a roundabout, as someone else already described, and;
4. When you're in a lane at lights where cars can go straight on or right, and there's a large queue in the other (left-or-straight) lane. If there are two cars at the (red) lights sitting there in the right lane, you can't see the indicators on the front one, and the second one is not indicating. The lights change, the front one goes straight on, as you were hoping to, the second one only now starts indicating, leaving you stuck behind.
People seem to indicate most regularly when it's useful for them, where someone seeing which way they're going might let them out or something. I often wonder if it's the 'creep' of what my driving instructor preached; you don't really have to bother unless it's useful for someone, but applied to situations (junctions) where you're supposed to (by law) indicate even if you're the only person for miles around.
I had a chat with my Dad about indicating at roundabouts. He's 70-odd, never indicates at all at roundabouts at any point, and was totally unaware that there might be some conventions/use in doing so.
Finally, a friend of mine has a new Lotus. One of the features he's most pleased with about it is that the indicators don't make any tick-tick noise. This was removed 'as it was annoying'. He doesn't indicate any less. I believe (especially #4, potentially sitting there for a while with the indicators on) may be because of the tick noise. Yes, I know, you might get more people driving for 18 miles on the motorway with their indicator on if they didn't make noises.
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In reply to Offwidth:
Yeah, the feeder lane thing fits into my #1 annoyance category...
New pedestrian instructions for crossing a road:
1. Take care to look for turning traffic, which will be indicating.
2. Also, walk back a bit up the road to check for road signs or painted arrows under the cars waiting at the junction; the junction you're at might have a filter lane, and nobody will bother to indicate there. It's your responsibility to figure this out. Good luck.
I don't get the 'It's a filter lane' argument. You legally have to indicate there (unless you're going straight on), and it's not like that's an incredibly taxing thing to do! The conversation with your obsessive acquaintances probably uses more energy than just indicating when you're supposed (and legally obliged) to anyway.
I wear my seatbelt all the time when I'm in the car. It's never ever ever ever helped me or been at all useful, so far. I do it out of habit. My understanding of the original reasoning is that it's supposed to stop someone getting hurt or killed in some situations. I don't see why indicating even 'when it won't help anyone', thus getting into the habit of just doing it all the time, isn't kind of the same as the seatbelt. (Apart from the minor point that the person indicating might help is less likely to be only me!)
Climbing analogy: do you think it'd make any difference whatsoever 99.999% of the time (i.e., more than a lifetime's climbing for most people) if you never did up the screwgate while belaying? Why do you do you bother doing it? It's much more of a faff, and lots less useful, than indicating.
Yeah, the feeder lane thing fits into my #1 annoyance category...
New pedestrian instructions for crossing a road:
1. Take care to look for turning traffic, which will be indicating.
2. Also, walk back a bit up the road to check for road signs or painted arrows under the cars waiting at the junction; the junction you're at might have a filter lane, and nobody will bother to indicate there. It's your responsibility to figure this out. Good luck.
I don't get the 'It's a filter lane' argument. You legally have to indicate there (unless you're going straight on), and it's not like that's an incredibly taxing thing to do! The conversation with your obsessive acquaintances probably uses more energy than just indicating when you're supposed (and legally obliged) to anyway.
I wear my seatbelt all the time when I'm in the car. It's never ever ever ever helped me or been at all useful, so far. I do it out of habit. My understanding of the original reasoning is that it's supposed to stop someone getting hurt or killed in some situations. I don't see why indicating even 'when it won't help anyone', thus getting into the habit of just doing it all the time, isn't kind of the same as the seatbelt. (Apart from the minor point that the person indicating might help is less likely to be only me!)
Climbing analogy: do you think it'd make any difference whatsoever 99.999% of the time (i.e., more than a lifetime's climbing for most people) if you never did up the screwgate while belaying? Why do you do you bother doing it? It's much more of a faff, and lots less useful, than indicating.
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In reply to PM:
I think you're right. So someone indicates when turning left into a road when no pedestrians and traffic are around. So what? Is there a massive increase in fuel consumption, does it burn out the fantastically expensive indicator bulb, are there thousands of drivers having to have their arms amputated doe to the horrific injuries caused by moving their fingers a couple of centimetres?
It seems like some daft rule made up by driving instructors. If you constantly reinforce the idea that you shouldn't indicate unless absolutely forced to do so, people will instinctively not indicate, rather than indicate. Fast forward a couple of years when drivers are complacent and pretty much oblivious to whats around them, then no one will bother indicating because it's not instinctual and they're more interested in updating their facebook profile than looking in their mirrors.
> People seem to indicate most regularly when it's useful for them, where someone seeing which way they're going might let them out or something. I often wonder if it's the 'creep' of what my driving instructor preached; you don't really have to bother unless it's useful for someone, but applied to situations (junctions) where you're supposed to (by law) indicate even if you're the only person for miles around.
I think you're right. So someone indicates when turning left into a road when no pedestrians and traffic are around. So what? Is there a massive increase in fuel consumption, does it burn out the fantastically expensive indicator bulb, are there thousands of drivers having to have their arms amputated doe to the horrific injuries caused by moving their fingers a couple of centimetres?
It seems like some daft rule made up by driving instructors. If you constantly reinforce the idea that you shouldn't indicate unless absolutely forced to do so, people will instinctively not indicate, rather than indicate. Fast forward a couple of years when drivers are complacent and pretty much oblivious to whats around them, then no one will bother indicating because it's not instinctual and they're more interested in updating their facebook profile than looking in their mirrors.
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In reply to Ridge:
Yeah, but what about that really annoying tick-tick noise? Nobody should have to suffer that. ; )
> I think you're right. So someone indicates when turning left into a road when no pedestrians and traffic are around. So what? Is there a massive increase in fuel consumption, does it burn out the fantastically expensive indicator bulb, are there thousands of drivers having to have their arms amputated doe to the horrific injuries caused by moving their fingers a couple of centimetres?
Yeah, but what about that really annoying tick-tick noise? Nobody should have to suffer that. ; )
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You're right about Audis.
I stopped bothering to indicate so much when I got my A5 and now I have an A7 I'm not they've been used. There's usually not enough time to bother indicating as I'm more focussed on pulling out on people or cutting in for a late junction. They're probably more useful on the slower engined cars that need to in form other drivers of their intention.
Less tongue in cheek. You're right. Fewer people seem to indicate - it's particularly annoying at busy roundabouts where it slows things down. It's also makes people incorrectly guess. I have to go straight over a dual carriageway roundabout (from a single road to a single road, dual carriageway exit 1 and 3). I get in the Left lane as it's correct but most cars are going Left, so sometimes people pull out from the next entrance round expecting me to got Left but not indicate. If I got in the Right lane I could be cut up by someone doing it correctly or pulling out from next entrance going straight over expecting me to stay in the middle.
It must be worse in the South where you have more cars, more idiots and more junctions.
I stopped bothering to indicate so much when I got my A5 and now I have an A7 I'm not they've been used. There's usually not enough time to bother indicating as I'm more focussed on pulling out on people or cutting in for a late junction. They're probably more useful on the slower engined cars that need to in form other drivers of their intention.
Less tongue in cheek. You're right. Fewer people seem to indicate - it's particularly annoying at busy roundabouts where it slows things down. It's also makes people incorrectly guess. I have to go straight over a dual carriageway roundabout (from a single road to a single road, dual carriageway exit 1 and 3). I get in the Left lane as it's correct but most cars are going Left, so sometimes people pull out from the next entrance round expecting me to got Left but not indicate. If I got in the Right lane I could be cut up by someone doing it correctly or pulling out from next entrance going straight over expecting me to stay in the middle.
It must be worse in the South where you have more cars, more idiots and more junctions.
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In reply to PM:
Ok that wasn't as clear as it should have been... on filter lanes at fully light controlled junctions you normally have right of way on green (but its wise to take care for idiot pedestrians etc crossing on red lights). Any other lane not controlled by lights that might be describing as a filter lane I'd advise indicating but according to the code you must give way until anything on the junction you intend to enter has crossed.
Ok that wasn't as clear as it should have been... on filter lanes at fully light controlled junctions you normally have right of way on green (but its wise to take care for idiot pedestrians etc crossing on red lights). Any other lane not controlled by lights that might be describing as a filter lane I'd advise indicating but according to the code you must give way until anything on the junction you intend to enter has crossed.
In reply to Offwidth:
Yeah, I get what you're saying exactly. Although... you're are allowed* to cross on red (man), in a way that you're not allowed to drive through red lights, so it's still useful for people waiting to cross know if you're about to drive across the bit they're thinking about sneaking across, or not.
That'd lead to a fun "You weren't indicating!", "It was a green light", "You were 'indicating' (by not indicating) that you were going straight on!", "It was a red man!" discussion/blame-fest, which wouldn't be worth the effort. Reminds me of: youtube.com/watch?v=WfUnwynwZvE&
Also, having re-read the bit of The Highway Code (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/general-rules-techniques-and-a... ), it's a lot more wooly on indicating than I'd remembered. It says 'should' a lot. Normally the 'or you're breaking the law and could get done' stuff involves the word MUST, in angry red. I'll try to soften my views accordingly. : )
* Probably more like "aren't not allowed".
Yeah, I get what you're saying exactly. Although... you're are allowed* to cross on red (man), in a way that you're not allowed to drive through red lights, so it's still useful for people waiting to cross know if you're about to drive across the bit they're thinking about sneaking across, or not.
That'd lead to a fun "You weren't indicating!", "It was a green light", "You were 'indicating' (by not indicating) that you were going straight on!", "It was a red man!" discussion/blame-fest, which wouldn't be worth the effort. Reminds me of: youtube.com/watch?v=WfUnwynwZvE&
Also, having re-read the bit of The Highway Code (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/general-rules-techniques-and-a... ), it's a lot more wooly on indicating than I'd remembered. It says 'should' a lot. Normally the 'or you're breaking the law and could get done' stuff involves the word MUST, in angry red. I'll try to soften my views accordingly. : )
* Probably more like "aren't not allowed".
In reply to marsbar:
Don't worry, I assumed that was the case
> The like is for the CCTV not the incident.
Don't worry, I assumed that was the case
In reply to Trangia:
One of the best pieces of "indicator advice" I received was from an instructor on one of my advanced driving courses, and is used on motorways or dual carriageway A roads where there is other traffic and you are planning a lane change. It was "aim for 3 indicator blinks before your wheels cross a lane marking, and another 3 while you are executing the lane change". Sounds simple - but try it. To do this smoothly and consistently does wonders for your observation and forward planning, and hence the smoothness and safety of your journey.
And yes, in response to the OP, indicator use is utterly abysmal in the Manchester area as well, and people round here don't seem to know the meaning of traffic lights either. Was nearly hit by following white van man yesterday when I took the utterly irresponsible and completely unpredictable action of stopping when the lights changed to amber. Sigh...
Paul
One of the best pieces of "indicator advice" I received was from an instructor on one of my advanced driving courses, and is used on motorways or dual carriageway A roads where there is other traffic and you are planning a lane change. It was "aim for 3 indicator blinks before your wheels cross a lane marking, and another 3 while you are executing the lane change". Sounds simple - but try it. To do this smoothly and consistently does wonders for your observation and forward planning, and hence the smoothness and safety of your journey.
And yes, in response to the OP, indicator use is utterly abysmal in the Manchester area as well, and people round here don't seem to know the meaning of traffic lights either. Was nearly hit by following white van man yesterday when I took the utterly irresponsible and completely unpredictable action of stopping when the lights changed to amber. Sigh...
Paul
Post edited at 07:41
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In reply to Paul Evans:
Gold for go!
> Was nearly hit by following white van man yesterday when I took the utterly irresponsible and completely unpredictable action of stopping when the lights changed to amber. Sigh...
> Paul
Gold for go!
In reply to Trangia:
It's been kind of endemic everywhere that I've had to go. Driving back home isn't so bad with the exception of the A9 where I narrowly missed a few head-on collisions by a driver in the opposite lane not seeing or caring about the traffic in the oncoming lane. It's not great since so many sections are single lane and there is a lot of large or slow moving vehicles where people with little patience have difficulty in coping with.
I think the worst place was Aylesbury for shit driving. They had the same problems with lack of indicators but also a lot of people just pulling out onto main roads when they felt like it, always right in front of you when the road was no way clear and always necessitating slamming the brakes.
It's been kind of endemic everywhere that I've had to go. Driving back home isn't so bad with the exception of the A9 where I narrowly missed a few head-on collisions by a driver in the opposite lane not seeing or caring about the traffic in the oncoming lane. It's not great since so many sections are single lane and there is a lot of large or slow moving vehicles where people with little patience have difficulty in coping with.
I think the worst place was Aylesbury for shit driving. They had the same problems with lack of indicators but also a lot of people just pulling out onto main roads when they felt like it, always right in front of you when the road was no way clear and always necessitating slamming the brakes.
1
In reply to Pursued by a bear:
And red means "Quick!"
At the Almondsbury Interchange it's easy to know when you're about to get green, as the last car will burst through from the right at three times the speed limit.
> I've started to refer to amber as Bristol green.
> T.
And red means "Quick!"
At the Almondsbury Interchange it's easy to know when you're about to get green, as the last car will burst through from the right at three times the speed limit.
2
In reply to Trangia:
I'm always reading about how BMW and Audi drivers don't indicate, but I've never seen any evidence if it myself.
I'm always reading about how BMW and Audi drivers don't indicate, but I've never seen any evidence if it myself.
3
In reply to Yanis Nayu:
Come out on a days worth of lessons with me or any other instructor.
Bring spare pants.
Come out on a days worth of lessons with me or any other instructor.
Bring spare pants.
In reply to Trangia:
I'm not that old, I've only been driving about 15 years. The standard of driving hasn't got noticeably poorer, or better in that time. Nor has the prevalence of indicators, politeness of young people or the coldness of winters.
I would say there are less hedgehogs now though.
I'm not that old, I've only been driving about 15 years. The standard of driving hasn't got noticeably poorer, or better in that time. Nor has the prevalence of indicators, politeness of young people or the coldness of winters.
I would say there are less hedgehogs now though.
2
In reply to Ridge:
Its about training thinking drivers rather than autonomous ones.
If you have to consider IF you need a signal you will have to look & assess so you can decide before acting. The old way of just sticking it on required no thought.
The old way was "do this so you pass your test" that trained people to do it for the test & then most stop doing it as it was for "the test". The new way is to consider how it will affect you & others for the safety of people, property & possessions. Then after test they should still do things as they have a real reason to do so.
Also trying to reduce there use till they are needed will reduce misleading signals which can be just as bad if not worse.
> It seems like some daft rule made up by driving instructors.
Its about training thinking drivers rather than autonomous ones.
If you have to consider IF you need a signal you will have to look & assess so you can decide before acting. The old way of just sticking it on required no thought.
The old way was "do this so you pass your test" that trained people to do it for the test & then most stop doing it as it was for "the test". The new way is to consider how it will affect you & others for the safety of people, property & possessions. Then after test they should still do things as they have a real reason to do so.
Also trying to reduce there use till they are needed will reduce misleading signals which can be just as bad if not worse.
1
In reply to Orgsm:
Sadly it still goes on today.
Lots still get taught to pass the test & not to drive safely for life.
The DVSA are trying to stamp it out & are changing things a bit inc the way instructors are assessed after they qualify.
I assume that they will then change the way they are tested too.
The learner industry is having an instructor / coach / CCL (client centric learning) conflict.
Instructors tell you what to do & when, Like on a climbing taster session. Coaches guide you to work it out for yourself.
With driving (and climbing) you need a mix to start with but the end game it to get the client to be able to make the calls themselves & become self reliant.
Sadly it still goes on today.
Lots still get taught to pass the test & not to drive safely for life.
The DVSA are trying to stamp it out & are changing things a bit inc the way instructors are assessed after they qualify.
I assume that they will then change the way they are tested too.
The learner industry is having an instructor / coach / CCL (client centric learning) conflict.
Instructors tell you what to do & when, Like on a climbing taster session. Coaches guide you to work it out for yourself.
With driving (and climbing) you need a mix to start with but the end game it to get the client to be able to make the calls themselves & become self reliant.
In reply to Richard Wilson:
I don't agree with this approach. It seems to me the best way to make safe drivers is to make as many 'safe' actions as possible automatic so that they take no mental energy. Since indicating what you're about to do is never 'unsafe' why waste mental energy deciding whether or not to do it?
If you always indicate then you're more likely to do it when there's kids screaming in the back, an ambulance trying to squeeze past just as a cyclist you didn't notice is overtaking on the outside...
And on a practical point you can never be sure that there isn't someone you haven't noticed who'll benefit from your indicating.
> Its about training thinking drivers rather than autonomous ones.
> If you have to consider IF you need a signal you will have to look & assess so you can decide before acting. The old way of just sticking it on required no thought.
I don't agree with this approach. It seems to me the best way to make safe drivers is to make as many 'safe' actions as possible automatic so that they take no mental energy. Since indicating what you're about to do is never 'unsafe' why waste mental energy deciding whether or not to do it?
If you always indicate then you're more likely to do it when there's kids screaming in the back, an ambulance trying to squeeze past just as a cyclist you didn't notice is overtaking on the outside...
And on a practical point you can never be sure that there isn't someone you haven't noticed who'll benefit from your indicating.
In reply to Richard Wilson:
I've yet to indicate when I've been walking...
I admit to often not indicating while on my bike, however. My unspoken reply to all the drivers I imagine muttering away in their cars is that I can't brake while indicating - and I do turn my head as a sign of intending to turn/change lanes.
> Indicators are for all road users & that includes pedestrians & other non licensed drivers.
I've yet to indicate when I've been walking...
I admit to often not indicating while on my bike, however. My unspoken reply to all the drivers I imagine muttering away in their cars is that I can't brake while indicating - and I do turn my head as a sign of intending to turn/change lanes.
I'm beginning to think we could close most of the threads on UKC and just leave a sticky that says:
Be aware: some people are selfish arseholes
Be aware: some people are selfish arseholes
2
In reply to Trangia:
It is a big problem in London and it irritates me both as a cyclist and a driver. It is especially common amongst BMW drivers, people who drive these big 4x4s and also Prius drivers who pull in and out without indicating. I don't know why it is such a big problem here. It could be arrogance or in a lot of cases because they didn't do the driving test in the UK.
It is a big problem in London and it irritates me both as a cyclist and a driver. It is especially common amongst BMW drivers, people who drive these big 4x4s and also Prius drivers who pull in and out without indicating. I don't know why it is such a big problem here. It could be arrogance or in a lot of cases because they didn't do the driving test in the UK.
In reply to Trangia:
I fairly regularly travel between Scotland and London. The standard of driving south of say Leeds is really bad compared to further north, and I don't just mean because there are more drivers on the roads. Then the SE is worse again.
I fairly regularly travel between Scotland and London. The standard of driving south of say Leeds is really bad compared to further north, and I don't just mean because there are more drivers on the roads. Then the SE is worse again.
In reply to NottsRich:
This is true. I often drive between London and Yorkshire, and used to do Yorkshire and Scotland, and I always breathe a huge sigh of relief when I get to around Yorkshire. And it's not down to traffic volume, it's just bad driving.
This is true. I often drive between London and Yorkshire, and used to do Yorkshire and Scotland, and I always breathe a huge sigh of relief when I get to around Yorkshire. And it's not down to traffic volume, it's just bad driving.
In reply to Trangia:
I'm not convinced. On the motorway - all indicators on to say that traffic is slowing. If someone lets you out - all indicators to thank you or to show they are working before making a turn without indicating! Parking at the side of the road - all indicators on so the poor guy coming up the road isn't sure if you are coming out or not.
Mirror, signal, manoeuvre. More like manoeuvre, signal and what mirrors.
I'm not convinced. On the motorway - all indicators on to say that traffic is slowing. If someone lets you out - all indicators to thank you or to show they are working before making a turn without indicating! Parking at the side of the road - all indicators on so the poor guy coming up the road isn't sure if you are coming out or not.
Mirror, signal, manoeuvre. More like manoeuvre, signal and what mirrors.
In reply to Trangia:
As Baz Luhrman didn't say:
Accept certain inalienable truths: Prices will rise. Politicians will philander. You, too, will get old. And when you do, you'll fantasize that when you were young, prices were reasonable, politicians were noble and people used their indicators.
As Baz Luhrman didn't say:
Accept certain inalienable truths: Prices will rise. Politicians will philander. You, too, will get old. And when you do, you'll fantasize that when you were young, prices were reasonable, politicians were noble and people used their indicators.
In reply to r0b:
My theory is that it is because of very long delay between other lights switching to green. Especially pedestrian lights have enormous delay between them switching and corresponding road light switching. As result it makes it 'safe' to go on yellow or even new red.
If I would have tried to go on yellow in Moscow (there I drive occasionally) I would be hit on the first junction by traffic coming from the side. In London I can cross junction twice before traffic from the side will start moving.. Technically government in attempt to make it safer makes us to to get it to bad habits.
> Another thing that seems to have been forgotten is the meaning of amber on traffic lights. Now seems to be Green = go, Amber = go, Red = stop unless it would be unsafe to do so.
My theory is that it is because of very long delay between other lights switching to green. Especially pedestrian lights have enormous delay between them switching and corresponding road light switching. As result it makes it 'safe' to go on yellow or even new red.
If I would have tried to go on yellow in Moscow (there I drive occasionally) I would be hit on the first junction by traffic coming from the side. In London I can cross junction twice before traffic from the side will start moving.. Technically government in attempt to make it safer makes us to to get it to bad habits.
1
In reply to bigbobbyking:
It matters not if you agree or not the Gov this country has voted in does & it is the way the regulations, testing & highway code are going.
Some times the timing of the indication is very important. So if we follow your method of no thought & make it automatic the option of early, late or some times even no indication are lost. On occasion it can be confusing to use an indicator at all.
We need active thought not learning by rote.
You could teach a monkey to drive a vehicle & pass the test your way but they would not be safe as they would not know why they are doing things.
There are some occasions when you can be 100% sure IF you are checking & thinking properly. Doing it automatically results in the not sure option you describe.
Things change.
Depending on when you learnt to drive you will either:-
Sequentially change gears or block change them going up & down.
You might use lots of engine braking or not when approaching junctions / stops.
You might signal to go past parked vehicles or not.
You might change up at low revs or higher ones.
Hold on the bite at junctions or use the hand brake?
> I don't agree with this approach. It seems to me the best way to make safe drivers is to make as many 'safe' actions as possible automatic so that they take no mental energy. Since indicating what you're about to do is never 'unsafe' why waste mental energy deciding whether or not to do it?
> And on a practical point you can never be sure that there isn't someone you haven't noticed who'll benefit from your indicating.
It matters not if you agree or not the Gov this country has voted in does & it is the way the regulations, testing & highway code are going.
Some times the timing of the indication is very important. So if we follow your method of no thought & make it automatic the option of early, late or some times even no indication are lost. On occasion it can be confusing to use an indicator at all.
We need active thought not learning by rote.
You could teach a monkey to drive a vehicle & pass the test your way but they would not be safe as they would not know why they are doing things.
There are some occasions when you can be 100% sure IF you are checking & thinking properly. Doing it automatically results in the not sure option you describe.
Things change.
Depending on when you learnt to drive you will either:-
Sequentially change gears or block change them going up & down.
You might use lots of engine braking or not when approaching junctions / stops.
You might signal to go past parked vehicles or not.
You might change up at low revs or higher ones.
Hold on the bite at junctions or use the hand brake?
Post edited at 23:07
In reply to Trangia:
Whilst out and about in North Yorkshire yesterday I started counting cars not indicating.
In about 3 hours spread over the day moving between sites I counted 5 cases of shall we say serious non indication. I define serious as turning off the road or non use on a rounderbout.
3 Audi, 1 BMW, 1 ford.
Whilst out and about in North Yorkshire yesterday I started counting cars not indicating.
In about 3 hours spread over the day moving between sites I counted 5 cases of shall we say serious non indication. I define serious as turning off the road or non use on a rounderbout.
3 Audi, 1 BMW, 1 ford.
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