UKC

Alright guys and girls, I'm looking for my first HVS but I live in the South so portland, swanage, Avon gorge and Wye Valley are my closest crags! I'm also open to other crags too cheers

In reply to dinodinosaur:

Malbogies- sound HVS 5a Good gear and cracking route at Avon
I think that Legend Direct at Swanage- Guillemot ledge is now HVS also 5a
and you can lace it with gear once you are past the first 10' break

enjoy

In reply to dinodinosaur:

Quality Street (HVS 4c)

In reply to jezzah:

Awesome, cheers for the suggestions, now I'm just wondering if the weather will hold up this weekend and if they will go while a little wet :P

In reply to dinodinosaur:

Thought of another:
Withy Crack (HVS 5a)

All the climbs suggested so far in this thread are on limestone though, wet limestone is not the place to push your grade, and be especially wary of cam placements.

In reply to dinodinosaur:

The Laughing Cavaliers (HVS 5a) At Shorn Cliff, well protected and low in the grade. The other HVSes in the Great Central Cave area are good too and not much harder.
Sinew (HVS 5a) At Wyndcliff, plenty of gear, not too stiff in the grade.
Disaster Area (HVS 5a) at Goblin Combe is again well protected (especially if you divert left and sling the tree near the top), certainly low in the grade.
At Swanage the easiest HVSes I've done are Aventura (HVS 4c) and Ledgend Direct (HVS 5a) which are both well protected, Quality Street (HVS 4c) is also meant to be friendly and protectable (not done it).
Avon probably not the best place to break into HVS, although I found Bon Bogies (HVS 5a) straightforward with enough gear. Malbogies (HVS 5a) suggested above has a scary start if you are just breaking into the grade, Suspension Bridge Arête (HVS 5a) is also regarded as an easy HVS and gear on that buttress tends to be more plentiful than elsewhere at Avon.

In reply to dinodinosaur:

Personally I wouldn't want to do an abseil in at Swanage as my first HVS, and definitely not unless I'd lead quite a few VS's there. Just had a look a your logbook have you lead any VS's yet onsight?

as Ivanator suggested suspension bridge arête is a reasonably good call or Suspense next door or Hell Gates a bit further over. All good with good protection and mostly good holds.

In reply to jezzah:

Malbogies as somebody's first HVS? I am not so sure.

In reply to Kirill:


It was mine - in 1975 - although I already had a good apprenticeship on Avon VS's and had seconded the route before.

No, I agree, it's not a great first HVS otherwise.

Martin

In reply to CurlyStevo:

As Stevo suggests approach Swanage with caution - lead a good few VSes first and start in friendlier areas like Subluminal and Cattle Troughs before graduating to the bigger cliffs.
One other Swanage route that comes to mind is Knobcrook Road (VS 4c) - gets HVS in the new CC guide, but seemed mild and protectable to me. It's at Seacombe which is a smaller section of cliff and although an abseil in is required there are plenty of easier escape lines if plan A doesn't work out.

In reply to The Ivanator:
"As Stevo suggests approach Swanage with caution"

Might be a good way to have an epic

In reply to dinodinosaur:

No Musketeers (HVS 5a) would be my choice of the Shorncliffe HVSs, though each of them round that area has its good and bad points for a first HVS tick. Might be a flog through damp vegetation to get there though. I was going to suggest Butterfly (VS 4c) as that used to be given easy HVS but it's been downgraded since I last looked. Suspension Bridge Arête (HVS 5a) is a good shout.

T.

In reply to dinodinosaur:

Haven't done a lot of climbing in the south, but certainly another vote for The Laughing Cavaliers at Shorn Cliff. Steady climbing, good gear and nice crag.

In reply to Pursued by a bear:

Another vote for Quality Street - friendliest HVS at Swanage.

Finale Groove not too bad
The 3x HVSs on the slab at Shorn Cliff at all well pro

Baggy Point has a few

In reply to dinodinosaur:

My suggestion would be the Brink of Solarity at Portishead Quarry:
The Brink of Solarity (HVS 5a)
A very nice climb, well protected but an absolute gift at HVS! And if you are feeling the force you can have a go at Pickpocket straight after...
Cheers
Dave

In reply to dinodinosaur:
Disagree with Malbogies as being a great idea too.

Suspension Bridge Buttress was my 1st HVS lead I think. Finale Groove also a good shout, though feels taxing and long.

Desecrator at Avon's Unknown Wall would be good - also one of the best lower grade single pitches at Avon imho.

In reply to The Ivanator:


I think it depends on what inspires you. I much prefer the more sustained Swanage climbs than Subluminal short and sharp offerings. Swanage is obviously a prime winter venue.

I'd say Finale Groove would be fine as a first HVS if long well protected climbing is your thing and its easy to find and gear is good.

In reply to GrahamD:

Dave's suggestion of The Brink of Solarity (HVS 5a) is a good one, I'd forgotten that, the other HVSes on the same slab are harder and more run out though (especially the starts).
Another good line (though it might need to wait till Spring for decent conditions) isThe Lost Treasure Of The Kingdom of Mercia (HVS 5a) good gear and mild, also unlike just about every other suggestion on the thread it is on Sandstone, always good to break the monotonous Southern diet of Limestone.
A little further afield Thanksgiving (HVS 5a) on Upper Jacky's Tor (Gower) is a great easy HVS with gear.
As Stevo has alluded to anything at Swanage from the Marmolada Buttress ab point is a serious undertaking - the easiest ways out from that area are tough VSes that might well get HVS elsewhere, Finale Groove (HVS 4c) suggested above is in that area - I would concur that the climbing on it is steady and the gear is good, stamina definitely helpful.
The Swanage lines I suggested Ledgend Direct (HVS 5a) Aventura (HVS 4c) & Quality Street (HVS 4c) have easier escapes nearby: Ledgend (HS 4b) Jericho Groove (HS 4b) or Bottomless Buttress (HS 4b) & Wall Street (HS 4b)

In reply to GrahamD:


And if the OP can't get up it?

Mick

In reply to dinodinosaur:

Having looked at the OPs logbook now (and assuming it gives an accurate record) I'd avoid Boulder Ruckle and the bigger Swanage cliffs for the time being.
If determined to try an HVS (which looks to be a big step up in leading grade) then choose something friendly, protectable and easy to retreat from.
The Brink of Solarity, Disaster Area & Thanksgiving fit all these criteria and are on crags that are often in nick through winter.

In reply to Mick Ward:


Aye the easiest route out of that section of cliff isn't much easier than finale groove iirc.

A lot of the Swanage routes away from subliminal can also be a pig to retrieve the gear without someone re-climbing the route because of the overhanging nature of the crag and quite often wondering nature of the routes.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

What is it, Heidelberg Creature?

In reply to Tom Last:

probably... That whole area can really catch the dampness off the sea in winter too which will make everything a grade or 2 harder and you won't know until you are down there.

In reply to The Ivanator:
By the way if you fail on a suspension bridge buttress route can you actually get the ab gear back easily?

In reply to Tom Last:

Sweet and Sour (VS 4c) is easier than Heidelberg creature, by my reckoning. People are probably put off by the guidebook description which states that "pitch 2 is rather poor and sparsely protected" this is utter guff, the second pitch is fine and more importantly for an escape route has plenty of gear.

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Yeah fair one. Pretty intimidating place all told.

In reply to The Ivanator:

Cheers for the advice everyone, I know it's quite a big jump in leading grade but I flew up the VS climbs I have done with no technical dramas. I know theres a huge difference between seconding and leading a VS but with this thread I was looking for where to go to get some more VS's and if it feels good then a first HVS trust me I'm not one to just jump into an ab in Swanage HVS because I've not done sea cliffs before :')

In reply to dinodinosaur:

Yes, Shorn Cliff is your best bet for an easy time, LOTS of nice HVSs. Would be damp in the mornings at the moment however so Sinew may be better, at Wynd Cliff - south facing + 3 nice VSs.

Really, the best place for you this time of year is Swanage. Stay away if a southerly wind is blowing but if the wind is blowing over the top and the sun is out it can be quite warm, even if the car park is frosty! Go to Marmolta in the Ruckle or Guillemot. My advice is to do a few VS first.

In reply to dinodinosaur:

If you can make it to Dartmoor you have granite options.

Vandal and Anne - Haytor (bit bold)
Outward Bound - Haytor (overhanging but soft)
Hydraulic Arete - Hound Tor (paper tiger as my friend put it)
Wind Wall - Sheepstor
Suspended Sentence - Bench Tor

They'd all be okay as a 1st HVS and all good routes, if a little short.

Now I just need a partner for this weekend because no one is around

In reply to Tom Last:
Wind wall is a good call, mostly great gear and borderline VS 5a I think, plus its a great climb!

In reply to Tom Last:

...

No, Vandal and Anne not at all suitable as a first HVS. Protection far too poor, plus a very dangerous metal spike (IIRC), if it goes wrong.

In reply to Tom Last:

My opinion appears to be confirmed by UKC logbooks. Generally reckoned to be high/very high in grade:

Vandal and Ann (HVS 5b)

In reply to dinodinosaur:


May I ask, how may VSs have you successfully led recently?



Portland? Nope. Swanage? Not the Ruckle, please. Possibly Subluminal (Transcript Direct?) Might get a lovely sunny day; might get raging seas (in winter!) Bit of a risk. I wouldn't go there (well, unless you live in Swanage!)

Avon? As has been mentioned, stuff on Suspension Bridge Buttress is more honest. But...

I'd have thought your best bet is in the Wye Valley, ideally:

A pumpy 5a crack where you can drop big wires in to your heart's content. If you get up it, great. If you don't (always possible with a grade breakthough) the only thing hurt is your ego.

Mick

In reply to dinodinosaur:

Apologies, just spotted your later post. Would still go for the Wye valley. Good luck!

Mick

In reply to Mick Ward:

No dramas mate, I realised I should have put a bit more detail into my original post so added that to it :') like I said I'm definitely not one to go crazy, well too crazy anyway :P

In reply to dinodinosaur:

I thought Red Rose Speedway at Symond's Yates was pretty steady back in the day, a few moves then a ledge, a few moves more and another ledge. Although I'd steer clear of its neighbour The Russian if I were you, a different kettle of fish all together.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Ah yes, I forgot about the spike you mention, don't recall it being particularly worrisome though, in fact you (well I did) get a decent sling on it for gear and you're unlikely to nail yourself on it. There's a good cam too. It's a bit run out, but a one move wonder really. Anyway, you can just down-climb it and walk away if you don't like the crux, unlike Avon or Boulder Ruckle stuff. Still, you could be right, the other Dartmoor ones I posted are softer and largely better.

In reply to CurlyStevo:
Yeah agreed. In fact it's probably easier than the neighbouring VS Mushroom Wall!
But then again, Mushroom Wall is well 'ard.

In reply to Mick Ward:



Well there is an added incentive to try but if not, do what everyone else does. Either:

- Dog it
- Let their partner try it
- Back off and try the VS next door
- Climb back up the abseil rope
- Swim
- Shout for help - there are often people around there

The point is the gear is very good and the climbing is solid and isn't a sandbag.

In reply to GrahamD:







Graham, you're so not selling this to me!



I've never known you to recommend sandbags. And, strictly speaking, this isn't one. But...

1. In my experience, most people crap themselves, first time (and often many more times!) in the Ruckle.

2. Finale Groove has a big feel to it (part of its appeal). Like Sloth, it feels as though it could be E2 or E3. The bit in the middle is pretty goey. And there's a definite sting in the tail which could easily catch out a tired leader.

I think Ciderslider had it right (praise at last, Mark, God knows you've waited long enough for it!) He'd got really used to Subluminal, got a definite feel for what Swanage 'proper' is going to throw at you, got psyched to f*ck, went in and did it. Conversely some folk I knew, had a nice little epic about 25 years ago. He'd led E7, she'd led E6 (big, big grades back then). By their own admission, they underestimated Finale Groove/the Ruckle/Swanage.

I'd love the OP to be leading E1 consistently next summer, go in and, like Mark, hammer it. But I feel that generally the Ruckle is a place to drop grades not go looking for grade breakthroughs.

Mick

In reply to GrahamD:

From my own experience here is a cautionary story about the Boulder Ruckle that led to the inshore lifeboat rescuing me from the foot of the Marmalada Buttress.
After doing a couple of routes at the other end of the Ruckle (Silhouette Arete and Black Sunshine) we wandered down to the Marmalada ab point as my partner was keen to have a crack at Finale Groove. I was rather anxious about this as the routes at the East end of the Ruckle had been very wet, especially those following cracks and corners, also my climbing form on the day was not great and I knew that seconding (at the very least) a top end VS to escape the Marmalada area was going to be tough for me in poor conditions.
When we got to the ab point just after 5pm there were a couple of other teams just finishing routes, they did let us know conditions were less than ideal, but the fact they had managed routes persuaded us to ab in. On inspection it was clear that Finale Groove was not a viable option as it was dripping wet , the more open line of Lightning Wall seemed a sensible alternative and I figured I'd manage it OK having previously done the route (in good conditions).
My partner led as a single pitch and found conditions difficult, hence taking a long time over the lead and only just getting through the crux (after the break) with a rest on gear. This left me with limited daylight to follow. When I reached the crux the holds had that slippery humid coating that Swanage specialises in and each time I ascended to the gear above the break I struggled to make the traverse moves rightwards onto the wall. I was expending a lot of energy trying to pull the sequence off on dripping holds, wasting a fair bit of effort on swearing loudly at the situation too! Eventually I committed to the moves, unfortunately I then came off, took a pendulum fall and ended up (with rope stretch) hanging just below the undercut traverse in clear air.
With difficulty I communicated this to my partner (who tied me off on his plate) and I tried to set up a prussik arrangement to ascend the tied off lead lines until I could climb again. I struggled to get my old, stiff and rather too short prussiks to bite on the new shiny/skinny lead ropes, at this point I should have been more patient and persisted with adjusting the cords (perhaps they would have bitten) - instead I thought "I know my prussiks bite well on the ab line, perhaps it is best to be lowered and ascend that" not my wisest decision ever - especially as I didn't have a torch on me (big lesson).
But by now the die was cast, as I began arranging the prussik for the ab line I was alarmed at how shattered I was from the days climbing and particularly my several vain attempts at the Lightning Wall crux. My hands were also cut in several places from falling from a sharp chert hold, none of this was helping as the last light ebbed away. I managed to prussik the considerable amount of stretch out of the system and get off the floor, but this effort used pretty much all my remaining energy, and I was having visions of ascending 20m and not having anything left to get to the top, I knew ending up in that position would make rescue much harder, so at this point shouted up to my partner that contacting the coastguard was the best option. Fortunately he heard enough to make sense of what I wanted and was able to summon the coastguard team relatively quickly (although it felt an age when sat in the dark at the foot of the Ruckle). The coastguards were efficient and summoned the RNLI inshore boat that picked me up and zipped me around to Swanage town.
At the time of the rescue I was a relatively experienced climber (several hundred trad routes under my belt and a veteran of several previous Boulder Ruckle forays) – just throw a few variables in the mix though (poor conditions, encroaching darkness, inadequate prussiks, fatigue) and it is amazing how quickly a situation can escalate. In hindsight I had perhaps become over confident in what seemed a familiar environment, hence mistakes such as the dodgy prussiks and lack of headtorch.
Glad to have enjoyed a couple of incident free years since then, definitely learnt some lessons and am a good deal more circumspect in my approach now. Still thankful to my partner who did everything right, the Swanage lifeboat crew (impeccable) and Scott Titt who kindly recovered the gear we abandoned in the route. Nothing worse than cut hands and bruised ego as the collateral damage, but hopefully an illustration of what can all too easily happen in the Ruckle.

In reply to dinodinosaur:

Time Passages (Original) (VS 4c)
Izitso (HVS 5a)
Gates of Eden (VS 5a)
Abbot's Way (HVS 5a)

Small selection of Torbay routes that fit your criteria.
All have good gear, catch any sun going and are good routes.
Enjoy Chris

In reply to Mick Ward:

Funnily enough that was my goal to lead E1 comfortably by next summer and I think it's an achievable goal since I climb 3-4 times a week now. With at least 2 of those days dedicated to actually training technique and strength. When spring comes around I'll be outdoor at least one evening a week too. Honestly cheers again for all your advice and suggestions! This is what makes the ukc forums a welcoming place!

In reply to The Ivanator:

+1 for The Laughing Cavaliers

In reply to EddInaBox:


For those recommending quality street - is this a pre rockfall ascent or has it rapidly cleaned up afterwards to its former glory?

In April or so there was still a large section of the middle covered in dust with one only loosely attached block still hanging on in the middle of it.

I'm surprised people are so against the ruckle. The grading always felt a lot easier than subliminal to me because it felt like you got an extra half grade for this supposed "ruckle factor". I guess I had quite a slow grade progression so had plenty of chance to get used to the sea cliff practicalities elsewhere.

That aside, the stuff on the suspension bridge isn't a bad choice, fairly honest routes with big holds. The routes on the great slab at shorncliff would be my other recommendations.

In reply to EddInaBox:



A bit stiff for a first HVS though, isn't it?

In reply to The Ivanator:

Nice account.

Seconding Lightning Wall is a real pain - certainly not one to do when under par - not only is the rising traverse crux tricky with good pendulum potential - its really hard to belay at the top in a position to see and hear what is happening. Tales of epics abound on that one.

My nearest Ruckle 'epic' didn't quite result in a coastguard, but it was the first time I've tried prussicking a climbing rope in anger to get up the start of Sinbad. In retrospect, climbing as a three and trying to do this late one November afternoon was always going to be cold and increasingly dark !

In reply to AJM:



I did it this summer (twice) no issues.

In reply to Dave Garnett:

Depends on whether your climbing style favours delicate balancy slabs, if you're into juggy and thuggy Swanage stuff then yes, it might prove a bit of a challenge.

In reply to EddInaBox:


I know the photo in the Logbooks section makes the area look like you can walk up it with your hands in your pockets but which part of Withy Crack is delicate and balancy? What's your local crag, Higgar Tor?!

In reply to Dave Garnett:


... the slab/wall up to the base of the crack (as I recall). Would certainly agree with you in not recommending Withy Crack for a first HVS. In fact there's a case for swapping grades with Withy Crack and that E1 near it - which would maybe make Withy Crack a great first E1? Slab/wall a bit balancy, not great gear but you're not that high up, into the crack, bomber gear but decidedly uphill, give it some welly and finish on a lovely Hard Severe crack.



Made me smile, remembering doing Rasp with the late Will Perrin. He decided to swap his rack around, about 10 feet up! Bless him...

In reply to Mick Ward:

Aye, I found Bad to the Bone (E1 5b) significantly more straightforward than Withy Crack (HVS 5a) - think I climbed the initial section of wall after the ledge on WC too far to the left and gave myself a cruxy 5b traverse move to access the crack itself.

In reply to EddInaBox:

That's good news, I'm glad that the mess on it has cleared up.

In reply to dinodinosaur:

There's some really good advice here. I've not climbed at Avon or Wye, but for what it's worth I did most of my early climbing at Swanage and pushed up through the grades there.
I would say that looking at your logbook you should get a few lead miles in on various VS's (it's one thing to second at any grade, but another thing entirely to lead it - especially if it's onsighting at the top of your game - take it from someone who knows).
I would also advise that if you were to venture onto 'The ruckle' you do so with someone who knows their way around and knows what they are doing. It can be very rewarding, but also a place that you don't want to be getting it wrong. Also most of the escapes down there are VS and there are no soft touches. The other problem is that alot of the ruckle looks similar and it would be easy to end up climbing the wrong route. If anything goes wrong down there (falls/fails from leader or second) it can be a bugger to sort.
Although Finale Groove is a great route it's big and intimidating and is long and the last section is pumpy loose and steep - I can still remember getting up near the top with rusty pegs loose rock and my heart it my mouth.
Go to Subluminal - warm up on Face, curving crack, then if those are easy do slip road (which now get's HS - but is way harder and more committing than alot of much harder routes) then maybe freda and transcript direct and spreadeagle. If you breeze them all on lead then maybe you'll be ready for Boulder Tickle

PS If you are absolutely committed to HVS on the ruckle - the aventura - soft HVS but the second pitch requires commitment.

In reply to Mick Ward:

Thanks Mick, I'm flattered, you make me feel like a proper climber (and not the chancer that I am) Hope you are well and maybe buy you a beer next year in the square and compass.

Mark

In reply to The Ivanator:

WC and BTTB will probably both be HVS in the next definitive. There's a case for a note in the text warning against starting WC too far left; I suspect some climbers drift left to the extent that they use some holds on Senile Taff Corner Direct Start (definitely E1). Starting WC just to the right of a point directly below the bottom of the crack is a lot less threatening.

In reply to dinodinosaur:

Already mentioned, but Brink of Solarity @ Portishead Quarry, should be ideal if slabbing is good for you. An alternative to the HVSs @ Shorncliff already suggested ,but a bit steeper would be Emotional Dyslexia.

In reply to dinodinosaur:
Malbogies?? Vandal and Ann???

Jeepers. Anyway, good luck.

If I were you I'd head for Shorn Cliff. I don't remember the names of any of the routes, but they're all easy for their grades, and there isn't any sea at the bottom of the crag.

jcm

In reply to bpmclimb:
Cheers Brian, good to know for the future ...no doubt I will eventually give in and be tempted back into that godforsaken hole.
The way I did the routes WC felt like hard 5b and BttB just about scraped into 5b (and the hard moves were protected), if climbed on route I suspect HVS 5a for WC and HVS 5b for BttB would be appropriate grades - would scrub a rare E grade lead from my resume sadly ...perhaps I can reclaim it for my WC variant.
Happy New Year to you!
Edit: Do you have any inside info. on the imminence of the definitive Somerset guide?

In reply to dinodinosaur:

I'm with Mick on this.

Swange ab-in routes require confidence that you have the right place and can climb out again. For your very first HVS you want the comfort of knowing you can lower off and retrieve if it goes wrong.

Avon isn't best protected and is fairly polished for decent routes at HVS (although Japser or Padansac, whilst glossy are easy to get to and off). Also the pegs aren't to be trusted and in places the rock requires good route finding and can have a paucity of gear. The multipitches can be affected by traffic noise.

The Wye is good as mentioned - I'd probably go to Shorncliffe and pick one I like the look of (cavaliers or similar).

Otherwise, Fall Bay on the Gower is non tidal and has a couple of nice HVSs.

In reply to The Ivanator:

Do you have any inside info. on the imminence of the definitive Somerset guide?

There has been progress, in that groundwork has been ongoing, and scripts for various crags have been evolving. Regarding publication, much is still up in the air, and it's difficult to estimate a date at the moment.

In reply to bpmclimb:

If you/Mark et al want extra bodies to check mid grade routes on esoteric crags then feel free to point me at things, sampling a few new crags in the area would be fun.

In reply to The Ivanator:

Ok, thanks.

.... BTW I'm told by some climbers that middle grade means E3-E6!

In reply to bpmclimb:

Yikes, rig me a top rope and expect hours of dangling and cursing in that case!