UKC

Does anyone know of any widely recognised protocol for dealing with people who want to offer 'tokens of appreciation' in the context of a mountain rescue? I'm not so much looking for individual opinions, interesting though they might be - what I really want to know is whether there is any well-established way of dealing with such matters?

I'm fairly sure that the individual involved will be making a donation to the local Mountain Rescue team who were also involved, so that option is most likely already covered. I don't want to suggest that he give whatever he wants to offer to me to a specific charity instead because having recently discussed that sort of thing with one of my climbing partners, it seems that invitations to donate to charities not of one's own choosing instead of giving something to an individual can sometimes give offence. I thought about suggesting that he give whatever he wants to give to my climbing partner of the day, who is a student, but while I will discuss that option with her, she might not like the idea. I could quietly ignore the offer or turn it down, but I recognise that the guy is being quite brave in trying to face up to what he may consider to be a moral responsibility in what must have been a very difficult and embarrassing situation for him, given that one of his children was involved.

What would be most helpful to me would be if there is a generally accepted protocol that I can refer to in whatever answer I give to the guy. Is there such a thing? I'm hoping that there may just be something to get me off this slightly embarrassing hook, and if there's no such protocol in existence, is there a need for one?

In reply to Andy Morley:

I don't want to be awkward, but it's impossible to tell from your post what on Earth has happened.

In reply to Andy Morley:

That's an excellent idea, good for you.

In reply to Andy Morley:

Sorry too cryptic for me....presume you're talking about financial donations?

In reply to Andy Morley:

Donate whatever he gives you to a charity for auction.

In reply to Andy Morley:

Eh?

Are you saying that a chap's child was rescued by MRT and you (as a civilian) and wants to thank you?

If so, just say that you're touched by the idea but would much prefer for the benefit to go to the MRT.

Or just say thanks and accept the gift.

In reply to Andy Morley:
I'm a bit lost, but if I have understood the jist, there are no rights and wrongs. Without further clarification......

If it's simply that he wishes to thank you as a member of the public for your help, then (assuming it's a nominal thank you level of gift) either politely accept or politely decline. Accept can be in my view you could pass on X gift to Y charity and you can either tell him that or not as it's largely irrelevant. If it's a gift as opposed to money, it's not difference - charity can take a gift. Whether you do decline does depends on circumstances as if it is very emotionally charged, to decline may just add extra turmoil in his life, so easier on him to accept and pass on if you don't wish to keep for yourself or your climbing partner if she was involved. If it's above a nominal level of gift, in my view you have to decline, as he is probably over reacting to the incident.

Morally, if I helped out at an accident or similar, I would certainly decline if circumstances permitted me to do so without offence or just pass to charity.

In reply to Andy Morley:

Bit hard to tell from your original post exactly what happened / you where involved in but I think you assisted with an accident that Mountain rescue also attended. I know that sometimes people like to offer a personal thank-you to people involved in the form of Beer / Whisky / Wine / Chocolate rather than just a donation to mountain rescue. Personally I would accept this and either share with climbing partner or donate to charity as a raffle prize.

In reply to JamButty:


I have no idea. I just got an email asking for our postal addresses, saying 'we would like to send you a token of appreciation'. The actual details of what it originally relates to don't much matter above and beyond that we just helped them out in a tricky situation. I just wondered whether this sort of thing happened often and if so, what other people did when they get made offers of this kind. Clearly it doesn't and nobody knows, but thanks anyway.

In reply to Andy Morley:

I think they're almost certainly going to send you a bottle of whisky.

If they weren't going to donate to MRT I would have steered them in that direction, but as you say they are, I think the course of action least likely to cause offence is to accept with good grace!

In reply to Andy Morley:

I'd read your teams constitution. Ours says we cannot, personally, accept gifts of any kind - fine if they are for the team - definite no-no for anything else (even if that gift is a donation to another charity).

The best way to deal with these sort of things is to not engage with the casualty/family/friends. Not always possible though.

In reply to Andy Morley:

Ok I'd go with, if you feel guilty about receiving a token of appreciation, reply with your address but say that there is no need and you only did what anyone would have done. If they still choose to send yo a bottle of something you can accept it guilt free!

In reply to Andy DB:


Sounds sensible.

In reply to Andy Morley:

It's not clear whether you are a member of the MRT or just happened to help out in a personal capacity. If the later I would just start my reply with "no thanks necessary, happy to have helped" type comment, but give my address anyway too. If the person invovled feels they've been a bit silly and wants to atone for their mistake why deny them that opportunity. Particularly if you may get some chocs or whisky from it.

If you're a member of the MRT then other considerations (as others have said) may come into play.

In reply to Andy Morley:

I did make the assumption you weren't part of the MRT, as as mp3ferret points out there is likely to be some rules. If that's the case just say you can't accept anything and a donation to mountain rescue would be better.

In reply to Andy Morley:

It's a token to show their appreciation, you helped them, you are not mountain rescue, just accept with good grace. Like said above probably just a bottle of whisky, not something to agonise over.

In reply to Andy DB:


Yes, your assumption was correct - those people responding here and who misunderstood that point clearly did not read the OP where I mentioned that the local MRT "were also involved". As I spelled out in the OP, I really don't feel the need to advise the guy to donate to the MRT as I'm certain that he will have made that donation given that up to a dozen of them were deployed as well as a helicopter. I'm sure he's not unaware of those issues.

What's becoming clear from the response here is that what I thought might be a fairly common occurrence isn't in fact or seems not to be. At any rate it appears that there's no particular 'form' in dealing with such matters and I just have to apply my own judgement which I'm more than happy to do, despite my reluctance to share my address and my slight hesitancy about both accepting rejecting 'tokens of appreciation'. I'm a little surprised that it seems to be unfamiliar territory here in this forum, given the large numbers of people who venture out into dangerous places and who sometimes get into difficulties - the last time I went out to the same mountain, there was an actual queue of people going up there! Surely there must be other people here who've encountered similar situations and had similar reactions? Maybe not!

In reply to Andy Morley:
I guess it depends on the nature of the help. I've certainly come to the aid of people on a few occasions, but only on one occasion has it been serious enough to involve the MRT and on that occasion, whilst I would have happily accepted a pint, they had the excuse of the fact that they were going to hospital curtesy of a free lift from the RAF. It would never occur to me to swap contact details.

In reply to Andy Morley:


There aren't any.


No.

In reply to Andy Morley:

Well, there's probably no harm in providing your address. However, when you do, say also that there is no need, but if he felt he wanted to show his appreciation then an additional contribution to the MRT would be appreciated as they are always there whereas you (presumably) just happened to be there.

Unless of course your conduct went far beyond what might reasonably be expected - in which case he should put your name forward for an MBE.

In reply to Andy Morley:Hi Andy,
you're overthinking. In this situation i think you should just accept the gift with the good intention it has been given.

You have done a good deed, and this person would like to thank you for your generosity. I am sure that many of us would do the same if we were in your shoes, and you should not worry about someone finding a way to thank you for it. I would imagine that it will also help the person involved, to come to terms with the events of the day.

Give yourself a big pat on the back, you are one of the many heroes who help out strangers in difficult situations.
Good on you Andy!

In reply to Andy Morley:


I think your reasoning probably falls down a bit is due to the fact that very few people get into serious difficulties in dangerous places. My advice - do the same as you would if you had helped out at a car crash or if you came across someone who had a heart attack and you gave first aid. Provided the gift is appropriate (in your eyes), sit back and enjoy it, you probably more than deserve it.

In reply to Andy Morley:

And why would there be a protocol? That truly would be nanny state! What happens between the two of you has nothing to do with the Government.

In reply to Orgsm:

Who mentioned the government?

In reply to Andy Morley:

Would you like to give them my address? I'll pm you a picture of the results!

In reply to Andy Morley:

This dilemma is so contrived and the solution so ridiculous, that this is indistinguishable from idle boasting.

In reply to Andy Morley:

I helped a neighbour.

She gave me a token of appreciation.

I accepted.

I never felt the need for a protocol

In reply to winhill:


I disagree. That amount of writing is not idle.

In reply to Andy Morley:

As an individual who helped it depends on how you feel about accepting a token of appreciation. I can understand somebody in your place perhaps having feelings of "profiting" from what was an unfortunate incident but then it was hardly your fault and it's not as if you helped expecting any reward or recognition from it; most decent people would just help as it's what they'd hope for if they got into difficulty out in the land. I know that's what I'd feel to start with but then they just want to show their appreciation as, and excuse the cynic in me coming out, there are unfortunately a lot of people who wouldn't lift a finger to help somebody in distress. Maybe not so much in hiking and climbing but certainly it's happened in cities and towns.

In reply to Andy 976853:


I'm surprised if that were actually the case. Given the number of people hitting the great outdoors these days, someone must be pulling someone else out of a bush (so to speak) every week. So sooner or later you're going to be either the one being pulled or the one doing the pulling. The response here makes me think that probably, being British we just don't like to talk about it very much, and if you read some of the other replies here you'll find plenty to confirm that I think. However, I'm a bit in-British in that respect - I think these things should be talked about as it's an important thing to learn from both your own and from other people's experiences. Such stats as I've read do seem to bear out my assumptions here.

In reply to Zoro:


Yes - things like this make me overthink. It happens to other people too - fortunately this particular scenario had a happy ending but others don't always and either way, I've know people stop climbing for 6 months because of being involved in scenarios like these. I guess if you haven't been there yourself or don't have that habit of mind of going through the 'what-ifs' in these situations, then none of this would matter.

Anyway, since there evidently is no relevant 'custom and practice' here, I'm going to invent one, along the lines that someone above suggested. Thank you for your input everyone.

In reply to winhill:


You wouldn't happen to be a schoolteacher by any chance?

In reply to Andy Morley:

Quality back door brag!

In reply to Yanis Nayu:


Lol this really does remind me of being at school. You one too?

In reply to Andy Morley:

I sincerely apologise if I gave you the impression that you shouldn't talk about your experience. That is about as far away from my intentions as I can imagine. Talking is good, full stop.

Enjoy your gift (provided you think it is appropriate), ignore all others views (including mine) and sit back - you deserve it.

In reply to Andy 976853:

Your reaction was quite interesting though. I quite naively thought that this was an Internet forum for serious outdoorsmen and women, and that my question would be pretty much 'business as usual' given the large number of occurrences like this that happen out there in the real world. OK, so some people who seemed to fit that category have responded to this thread - they couldn't really answer the question which is fair enough. But what's really interesting/disturbing is the number of people who think that it's somehow boastful to suggest that I might have actually been near a real mountain or got involved in something actually happening on one. I was also gobsmacked by your suggestion that 'very few people get into serious difficulties in dangerous places'. You couldn't be more wrong on that one I'm afraid.

This makes me realise that there are lots of people who like to read about outdoor stuff on Internet forums and who haven't actually been out there and done that yet, and who might feel seriously threatened at the thought that the object of their fantasies might actually get a bit serious or dangerous sometimes. Since those people might at any stage decide to go and join the queues going up 3000 foot mountains, that's a little worrying. I think this definitely needs to be talked about more, no matter how much some of those people might throw their internet toys by way of response. They need to know that the real world can sometimes be rather more challenging than the internet...

In reply to Andy Morley:

" I think this definitely needs to be talked about more, no matter how much some of those people might throw their internet toys by way of response. They need to know that the real world can sometimes be rather more challenging than the internet..."

Did I miss the bit where you actually talked about the event? I sort of got the impression that the whole thread was about just how amazingly appreciated you were and whether you should gain materially from being so very appreciated?

In reply to Andy Morley:

I stand by my view that 'very few people get into serious difficulties in dangerous places'. I've assisted during mountain rescues/called mountain rescue for others and even been rescued by friends deep underground, I still think one of the most dangerous things we all do is cross a road or get into a car (maybe eating bacon is getting close though).

I strongly suspect everyone who replied to your post have 'been there and done that'. If you think I'm one that hasn't let me know and I'll reply with some info about me (not all because I like to remain fairly anonymous).

In reply to Andy Morley:
This thread feels a bit confusing to be honest. You ask for accepted protocols on a forum, but state you don't want individual opinions. If you want hard and fast rules this isn't the place for it, have you ever read a thread where everyone agrees and says the same thing?

Personally I don't think a protocol would help, you either need to say thank you and accept it, thank you and not accept it. Telling the guy anything else is falling into the category of using and internet forum to defend your actions.


" I think this definitely needs to be talked about more, no matter how much some of those people might throw their internet toys by way of response. They need to know that the real world can sometimes be rather more challenging than the internet.."

Then lets talk, describe what happened, use fictional names and places if you want to, and then hopefully there can be some learning from your experience. It would also be good to back up your statement

"'very few people get into serious difficulties in dangerous places'. You couldn't be more wrong on that one I'm afraid.

If you have numbers/facts about this i'm sure i'm not the only person who would be interested to hear them

In reply to Andy 976853:


No of mountain rescue incidents in the UK over the past 5 years, between 424 and 725 per year.
No of fatalities between 31 and 52 per year
No of injured between 87 and 118

And that's going to only be the tip of the iceberg if you consider the likely number in incidents that won't have involved Mountain Rescue - lowland casualties, people helped by friends who later visit A&E or their GP etc. etc. Then, extrapolate from that the likely number of near misses.

I'm personally averaging approx one serious incident per year, so far I've been involved in some capacity without being the unlucky person myself, but I'm only too conscious that next time it could be my turn.

In reply to Andy Morley:

I still stand by my view that very few people get into serious difficulties in dangerous places.

If you want to debate whether we should be risking life and limb by enjoying the outdoors then I'm out.

If you want to discuss how to deal with things when they go wrong I'll happily partake in the conversation.

In reply to Andy Morley:

Number of recreational walkers in the UK (according to the ra), 9.1 million. So a miniscule, really so tiny you could miss it, proportion are involved in rescues.
Perhaps you are a fud.

In reply to Babika:

A protocol? Now let me see? That's something written down and given a number and published somewhere?

===============================================

ARTICLE 1 OF PROTOCOL 1 OF THE UKC CONVENTION ON MOUNTAINEERING GOOD DEEDS

1. (a) If somebody rewards you with whisky or wine then drink it.

1. (b) If somebody rewards you with money then spend it. Spending it on whisky or wine is acceptable after which you drink it.

1. (b)(i) If it's feels like too much money then buy just one bottle and donate the rest to the MRT or ALSAR team in the district concerned.

===============================================

So there you have it Andy. A protocol published on UKclimbing.com this 15th day of December in the Year of our Lord 2015. That's official.

In reply to Jim Fraser:

Superb . I knew someone would finally be along to express my thoughts in a more logical manner.

In reply to The New NickB:


He asked for a protocol between two individuals neither representing or represented by an organisation. If there was such an official protocol then who else but a government body would come up with it?

In reply to Andy 976853:


OK, so I've come to the wrong place for a serious converasation on something like this. My mistake.

In reply to Orgsm:

Lots of organisations, loose affiliations or communities. Pretty much any time a group of people get together do things.

In reply to The New NickB:

And why would they be responsible for a protocol between two individuals that have nothing to do with those organisations nor impacts upon them?

In reply to Orgsm:

Let me rephrase the question "what is the accepted practice in the outdoor community". Poeple won't all agree, but plenty will think there is an accepted practice or protocol. See crag swag for an example.

In reply to The New NickB:

But that's a practice not a protocol and really quite different in how they come about and evolve. One is a casual loose way of doing things whilst other is a formalised and official.

What a best accepted way of doing this vs. You must do it this way.

In reply to Andy Morley:

Two individuals go up a hill. One gets into difficulty and the other helps. The person helped wants to give the other a gift. The other says, we must follow the protocol.

So tell me, who would be responsible for such a protocol and why if it's not a government body?

In reply to Sir Chasm:

Maybe I shouldn't get involved in discussion with the terminally stupid, but let's give it a go. Several thousand people in England and Wales have been involved in Mountain Rescue scenarios over the past 5 years - I mistakenly attributed those figures to the whole of the U.K, but actually that doesn't include Scotland which probably has a much larger incidence, nor I guess would it include people not counted by MRT which is a voluntary organisation that by no means has a monopoly over rescue. Add in those folk too plus the people who get involved in dangerous situations without choosing to involve emergency services in any of their guises and you probably have a few thousand more.

Those are the people who are relevant to these issues, not the 9 odd million that you say put one foot in front of the other in some context, not the other 60 or 70 million people in these islands who posess a pair of feet, not the 7 or so billion who break wind, eat, sleep and pursue other such activities in this world without setting foot out in the wild here in the UK. Those people are not relevant and don't figure in any of this. Can you grasp that?

Why are those thousands of people who do get involved in accidents or near misses in the UK not actually chipping in to share their experiences here for the benefit of the rest of us? My guess would be that seeing the asinine interventions of Sir Chasm-between-the-ears and other such buffoons, they choose to keep those experiences to themselves.

In reply to Orgsm:

Not in the context of the phrase "what's the protocol?". Whilst there is plenty about the OP that isn't clearly. What he meant by "protocol" was perfectly clear!

In reply to Andy Morley:

Sorry if I have contributed to this. For what it is worth I think you have come to the best place for a serious conversation on something like this.

In reply to Andy Morley:


Mr Morley, meet Mr Internet. I'm sure you'll get on famously.

In reply to Andy Morley:

I'm really confused. Have I missed where you talk about what happened, as opposed to your indispensable assistance of some form or another?

I'm not sure whether to accept gifts of gratitude adds to the pool of outdoor knowledge?

In reply to flopsicle:


Yes you have. The sensible conversation happened scattered amongst the first dozen or so posts in this thread. The rest is choss.

In reply to Andy 976853:


In that case, I hope I never stumble across the worst place!

In reply to Andy Morley:


Sorry -just reread your lengthy posts. No mention of what actually happened or how you helped. Nothing whatsoever to better equip me for a day on the hills, nothing to prevent any future incident. Just waxing lyrical about 'his' gratitude and how to respond.

Sadly for me I'm very interested in discussion about real life incidents, where as I have no dilemma in terms of gratitude. Pay it forward works a treat and leaves no debt as I've plenty of paying to go at!

In reply to Andy Morley:

I would have thought this would be the same as in most walks of life where if you help someone who is in difficulty of some sort they might want (but are not obliged) to thank you in some way. If they offer a small gift such as a bottle of whisky or a crate of beer then I imagine it would be considered normal to accept it with thanks. If they offer a considerable sum of money then I would have thought it would be more appropriate to say it is too much and decline. I can't see the mountain situation being much different.

In reply to Andy Morley:


Choss would have been a welcome contributor to this thread. Wonder where he is nowadays.

In reply to rockcatch:


I have a fundamental objection to the concept of making payment to anyone who helps you out by the side of the road so to speak. They only ever do it for their own purposes, even if those purposes are good ones. The fundamental responsibility is on the person doing the helping not to make things any worse thanks to their intervention. If they manage that, then that's no more than they should do. If they manage better than that, that's all fine and dandy - when that condition is satisfied then both the person being helped and the person doing the helping is better off. But there also needs to be some kind of equivalent of a 'statute of limitations' whereby any moral responsibility entered into by whoever does the helping ends at the point where they walk off the hillside or whatever, and vice versa. In the absence of any sensible suggestions here, bar the select one or two at the start of the thread that didn't dissuade me from this view, that is what I have decided.

In reply to Andy Morley:

I was in the supermarket yesterday, I saw someone trying unsuccessfully to reach something on a high shelf. I reached up and got it for them. They looked at me, smiled, and said 'God bless you'.
Made my day.

In reply to The New NickB:


Clearly not, there are many different interpretations on this thread, yours being one of many, mine being another one if many, neither any less valid than the other.

In reply to Andy Morley:


So what was your purpose in helping in the scenario you haven't explained?

In reply to Orgsm:


Initially to find out what was happening. Then to stop something bad from happening that would have made me feel bad afterwards if we hadn't stopped it from happening. Possibly.

In reply to Andy Morley:

I work in Procurement and our company gives helpful guidance to suppliers that Buyers can accept pretty much NO gifts and NO hospitality.
If a gift is sent in , it has to be documented/ declared
( it is actually easier just to return gifts , rather than fill in the paperwork to declare it , as if it was something worth keeping, you would not be allowed to keep it) A cheap diary or a calender,pen is about it.

However in your situation, a nice letter, is worth a lot, and a donation to the MRT or a gift that can be shared by the whole team, including back room staff is probably appropriate.

In reply to Jim C:


I think it's really important to get stuff like that right, otherwise, in your world, you get bribery and corruption. Outside the business world, you risk ending up with situations like you get in Spain where people 'help' you to park your car and then want money. While that's very unlikely to happen in the outdoor pursuits world in the UK these days, it did used to happen here a lot as you discover if you read 18th and 19th century travel writers.

I do think that the wider issue of 'boundaries' is an important one in the outdoor world though, given the large numbers of people milling about in the UK outdoor environment and the associated likelihood of interactions of whatever kind. To my mind, it's useful to be able to discuss that, though it seems that due to the limitations of UKC forums, here is perhaps not the best of places to have that conversation. On which subject, I'm vaguely interested in the UKC business model and the way they manage their 'content', which in the case of their forums is conversations like this one. Do you think that some of the people with the stupid names are 'Uncle Toms' meaning unpaid labour who they encourage to a degree in order to maintain some level of control over their content? MySpace used to operate a business model along those lines six or seven years ago.

In reply to Andy Morley:

Just accept it Andy and send him your address. Here, let me help you.

Please send to :

Andy Morely
Somewhere near Earth
Solar System

No, absolutely no need to thank me for this help.

In reply to Andy Morley:


Well there's your answer then - Don't accept the gift.

I can't help but wonder why on earth you started this thread in the first place when you have this fundamental objection.

In reply to Andy Morley:

"Why are those thousands of people who do get involved in accidents or near misses in the UK not actually chipping in to share their experiences here for the benefit of the rest of us?"

I'm genuinely confused now, can you quote, from your previous posts where you have shared your experience of helping at an accident. Rather than your experience POST accident?

In reply to JuanTinco:


I didn't share it. I was somewhat thrown by an email that hit my inbox and I shared my reaction to that. 50% of the people responding here (approximately) were puzzled by my account of the whole thing too, so that helped me understand my own puzzlement. The other 50% seemed to think it was absolutely fine for a stranger to offer me money or whatever else he had in mind, so that reassured me that there was nothing particularly weird about it. Being able to express my uncertainty here enabled me to write the guy a sensible and polite email, thanking him for his offer and saying it wasn't necessary, so thanks everyone for helping me get past my own puzzlement to a place where I was able to deal with it in a polite and sensible fashion - much appreciated.

In the process, I realised that a recent series of slightly difficult conversations with my own family where I asked them not to give me Christmas presents this year had left me a little more bruised than I realised. I didn't make that connection immediately but I understand now how this guy's email triggered some reactions to do with that. I now realise that I have some work to do on my own changing response to the increasingly affluent and materialistic society we all live in, but that's a topic for me to take away, not one for discussion here.

Thanks again.

In reply to Andy Morley:
Most MR teams would I'm sure, more than welcome, as a 'token of appreciation' offers of practical support such as, and not confined to;

Joining the support group and helping with street collections,
Assisting in maintenance of equipment, vehicles or the Base,
'Bodying' for search dogs,
Being a casualty for training
Services in kind, eg sorting out gift aid, garage services, Accounting, off road driving training etc etc, ask your team if they can use what you could offer.

No protocols required, just a bit of effort. Fuzzy warm feeling assured.

In reply to DerwentDiluted:


Thanks. That's pretty much what I suggested to him - great minds think alike

In reply to Andy Morley:

I'm not asking this to be offensive but are you on the autistic spectrum?

Try this:

'No thanks, it was my pleasure. Don't be daft, I'm just glad I could help. No, honestly. Really, I insist. You're welcome.'

Before you thank me for my advice:
Thanks, it was my pleasure...

In reply to Morty:

Everyone is on the spectrum, including your good self.

D

In reply to Morty:


No, but I have worked with people who are on the autistic spectrum, some of them at the extreme end of it and yes you are offensive, or possibly just ignorant.

In reply to Morty:


I thought that was very offensive.



This however was perfect.

In reply to Andy Morley:

I still have no real idea what you are talking about (not trying to be aggressive/offensive) but am glad you have reached some kind of conclusion, even if it was from what i can gather your conclusion before you started, and have reached a conclusion about how this affects other aspects of your life.

(purposely trying to join in with the somewhat abstract posting )

In reply to jon:


I think you are being harsh. I'm not saying Morty's post couldn't of been better worded but he/she did state that the question wasn't about being offensive. In my opinion there are far more 'offensive' replies to the OP in this thread.

The OP's post and replies certainly seem to of baffled a fair number of people, I don't think the OP is autistic but I can see the logic in asking the question.

In my opinion I'd rather see a world that treated 'are you on the autistic spectrum' the same as 'is it a cold, man flu, or the real flu'.

In reply to JuanTinco:


Probably the safest kind of posting to go in for in this particular forum

In reply to Andy Morley:


You're:
Currently at number 11 in the Top 40 Posters.

You clearly enjoy the forum.

In reply to Andy 976853:


<grammar pedant>
FFS, have a word with yourself.
</grammar pedant>

In reply to deepsoup:

I am rubbish at grammer so not sure what my mistakes were - if you want me to improve you will have to be a bit more specific.

PS. I know I spelt grammar wrong but at least the red wiggly line lets me know.

In reply to Andy 976853:


The two aren't really comparable. There's a certain set of behaviours that tends to be associated with the diagnosis of 'autism' but no-one really understands the mechanisms that cause autism or whether it's one condition or several. We have a much better understanding of what flu and colds are. Also, the behaviours associated with autism can be found in people who wouldn't normally be considered to be on the spectrum, but who exhibit similar behaviours for totally different reasons. I do actually think it's quite relevant here because I've previously argued that the culture of these forums is actually quite autistic - one way of looking at a culture is that it's a collection of behaviours and several autistic behaviours are found much more frequently here than elsewhere on the Internet. Taking this one step further, there's a very interesting area which lies at the intersection between autism and psychosis - at a group level, that area makes an even better metaphor for the culture of this forum than does autism by itself.

But I digress. The question I asked was effectively answered quite early on so yet again, thank you, message received, thanks again, over and out. What followed was just 'noise' which is often a feature of these parts. Dip into it if you wish to sample some, leave it alone, poke it with a stick, spit on it - it's up to you, but maybe one shouldn't take it too seriously...

In reply to flopsicle:


I'm an ex politics student. Go figure!

In reply to Andy Morley:

What is the saying, something along the lines of 'there is a fine line between genius and madness'.

In reply to Andy Morley:

That explains why this is the most worthless post, which is seemingly a post to keep on talking about the OP, who perhaps cannot do without the attention. (If he can, then he should be able to resist the temptation to respond to this. Then the post will hopefully die a death)

In reply to Andy 976853:

I think the main gripe of your protagonist would be the fact that you use the word 'of' where you mean 'have'.
This mainly stems from their similarly in the spoken language, whereas when written they are quite distinct.

I would have = I would've != I would of
I could have = I could've != I could of

"'ve" is a contraction of "have" in the above phrases.

In case you are not familiar, != means 'does not equal'


nicely done

In reply to veteye:

Frankenthread....

youtube.com/watch?v=xos2MnVxe-c&

In reply to interdit:

Thanks, one day I'll learn...

In reply to Andy Morley:

Nooooo! Never "over and out", that's like shouting "take in slack".

Should we blame Hollywood or cbeebies?

In reply to veteye:


Get over yourself vicar!

In reply to cuppatea:


Roger that.

In reply to interdit:
I think I replied a bit flippantly to your post Sorry.

I struggled to understand deepsoup's post and even after I read (or should that be read) your post numerous times I still wasn't sure about things. Now if you had asked me to calculate the distance to the sun and back in all imperial and metric measurements I would have (is that the correct use?) replied within hours.

In reply to Andy 976853:



"is that correct usage" please.

In reply to Andy Morley:


FYI your OP makes almost no sense from an outsider's perspective.


You're over thinking it. Climb long enough and you will find yourself in a position to give or need help. Many of us have. If someone wants to send you a card or a bottle of wine or whatever to say thanks then that's cool. If not, that's also no big deal. This is ordinary life, not something that needs some sort of official protocol!
jk

In reply to Andy Morley:


Oh good god, we're back to the usual rambling OPs and a request to set up a committee. Aaaaaaargh.....

After you were doing so well in other threads too.

In reply to Andy Morley:

Reading your many and verbose offerings I think I'm finally beginning to understand what my dog hears when I talk to him about anything other than biscuits, squirrels and walks.
jk

In reply to jkarran:

This thread is hilarious.

I do wonder what the OP's reaction would be to something that was actually slightly tricky to deal with, rather than just everyday gratitude. Protocols...!!

In reply to MG:

Christ knows, but whatever the reaction was, the post explaining it would be very, very long.

In reply to Andy Morley:

Is there a protocol for putting a thread out of it's misery?

If there is could someone please put said protocol into action.

In reply to Father Noel Furlong:

Oh Lordy, now the God squad has put in an appearance. I suppose it was only a matter of time. You're a little late though because the resident schoolmasters here have already done to death the adolescent preoccupations of the sort that trouble those who spend too much of their time in the company of p*ssed off youth. Just so you don't have to go back searching through the above noise, we've already heard from the 'men amongst boys and boys amongst men' about their deep, dark suspicions that 'Morley might be bragging again', a crime that's second only to m@sturbation in the black book that lives in the staff room. But before the latter possibility gets you excited, whether it's that or 'mass debating', no I won't come to the vestry with you so that you can show me how to do it properly.

In reply to jkarran:


Well that's not surprising and I'm glad to hear that you have someone at least who understands you. But maybe you should try to understand what's obviously caught your attention because you never know, one day you might get a proper job and if that day arrives, you'll find you have to pay attention to all kinds of strange and startling things, including being careful about situations where money changes hands, even if it seems very innocent. But don't worry, in most of those situations, you just have to ask and the conversation's over in about 5 minutes and the answer's usually very straightforward.

In reply to Andy Morley:

Eh? I seriously have no idea what you're on about. As i said in this and another thread, shame as you were starting to make sense. Oh well.....

In reply to Andy 976853:

Much better, thank you. ;O)

In reply to Father Noel Furlong:


'Tis the modern world Father. 'Tis a turble place, to be sure, to be sure...

In reply to Andy Morley:


So far as I can tell nobody is offering you money. I'm half tempted to though if you'd spend it on a Plain English course.
jk

In reply to jkarran:


Just talk with your dog. That way's easier for everyone.

In reply to Andy Morley:


This reminds me of the "Major Misunderstanding" character in Viz.

In reply to Andy Morley:

Why don't you talk to his dog, maybe the dog will then translate for us and we'll all know what's going on.

In reply to ThunderCat:


Old cartoon from Punch from the days 60 plus years ago when homosexuality was against the law and anal sex carried a stiff (sic) jail sentence:

Lord Justice A, who is having a bewigged slash in the judicial men's room to Lord Justice B who is standing beside him doing same:
"I say m'lud, what do you give a fellah for b*ggery?"
Lord Justice B:
"A couple of quid I should think"

[this is a test of my theory that UKC forums are characterised by some sort of globally autistic mind-set - will anyone here even get the above?]

In reply to Andy Morley:


You'll find your answer in this thread http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=630763 , click on the link in the post at 1644

In reply to Andy Morley:

Is this the most UKC thread ever?

In reply to bouldery bits:


Probably not. I suspect that engineers may be involved.

In reply to Andy Morley:

Or Aliens (have you seen breaking news?)

In reply to Andy Morley:


How has this person got your email address?

In reply to Orgsm:


Actually, those are just lenticular clouds forming over the heads of Father Noel Furlong & co as they try to figure things out.

In reply to Lusk:


I was effectively the photographer at this exciting event. I gave the lad in question my email address so that his father could get photographs off me for him to show his school chums. They had a new bigger helicopter that couldn't get near us because they thought the downdraft might blow us all off our perches, but it was whizzing around in close camera-shot a lot. It's amazing how cheap cameras can still stop rotor-blades these days. Wonderful thing, new technology.

In reply to Andy Morley:

So your involvement in this rescue was "taking photographs" ?
Or have I misunderstood?

In reply to off-duty:


I have described it all in another thread here a couple of months back in the general context of scrambling. I'm not prepared to go into detail in this thread because of the involvement of some rather sanctimonious people here who seem to have a bit of a twisted perspective. Last time I mentioned it, there was a certain amount of judgemental comment about the people at the centre of the episode, which on reflection I wish I'd squished at the time on the basis of 'there but for the grace of God go I'. I don't want to give any of the more warped people here the opportunity to posture from what they imagine to be the moral high ground.

But I think that the learning from this episode more generally is that people who have been rescued will feel like making gestures of some kind afterwards, which could be out of gratitude, out of guilt or a whole raft of other reasons. I think this needs to be dealt with sensitively and so some kind of understanding along the lines of "in those circumstances, you make a donation to the local MRT" is probably all that it takes. It really didn't take me long to reach that conclusion and if such gestures are channelled that way, the cash gets through to the place where it does most good for future misadventures and mishaps. The only reason I didn't get to there sooner was that having forgotten all about the episode, it was a bit of a weird thing to find myself suddenly reminded of it this slightly unusual way. It was a bit disappointing to have read comments from a significant number of people who evidently would have pocketed the money or whatever else themselves, but actually, if they found themselves in the same situation, then maybe they wouldn't have.

Anyway, 'evening all' or rather, good night - I'm off down the pub

In reply to Andy Morley:

Wow, this thread is still going, and I still don't understand it....

In reply to Andy Morley:


How immoral! Thieves, the lot of them.

Cheer up. It's Christmas

In reply to climbwhenready:

I think he's feeling guilty because his photographs were sh1t and didn't know what to do when the recipient offered reward for them.

In reply to Andy Morley:

They had a new bigger helicopter that couldn't get near us because they thought the downdraft might blow us all off our perches

Was the helicopter on a turntable?

In reply to Andy Morley:

Oh right - this episode

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=625453&v=1#x8140951

Not sure what protocol you are looking for. Generally "Thanks very much" would seem to cover it - or even "Don't worry about it, it's really not necessary".

Given that you have no idea what the "token" might be the suggestion that you should somehow direct what it is it or where it goes seems a bit presumptuous.
He might only be wanting to send you a Christmas card.

In reply to Andy Morley:

That's the bit I don't get. I think you're trying to fan the flames of this train-wreck of a thread, but it's not all that clear. Why on earth would you add something like that!?

In reply to Clinger:


Because it's becoming increasingly clear to me that something about the composition of this forum makes it a bit like the Biblical story of the Tower of Bable, and so it ends up impossible to have a sensible conversation about anything. Faced with a 50% probability that any thread at all will degenerate into something more or less like a Tom Sharpe novel, the only meaningful choices are to laugh and walk away, or to join in with the daftness, and I'm willing and able to do 'daft' since that seems to be the prevailing theme around here.

But it would be good if there were a sensible and grown-up outdoor forum where it might be possible to have rather more focussed conversations. Does anyone know of one?

In reply to Andy Morley:

No, sorry.

But your reference to the Tower of Bable (sic) is most appropriate. Perhaps if you wrote more coherently you would get more sensible and grown-up responses.

In reply to Andy Morley:


Well I'll give you a data point Andy. I don't get it.

I mean I understand why it was considered a joke. What I don't get is why you'd pick a slightly tawdry joke from a 1950s cartoon that you yourself felt the need to explain for a modern audience rather than one that's timeless.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sic
jk

In reply to Andy Morley:

Why don't you try starting your thread again from scratch on Supertopo?
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/forum.php

I'm sure the good folks there will treat you with the respect you deserve.

In reply to Andy Morley:

Is this a dead drop post for the secret services? It's the only way the OP makes sense.

In reply to Andy Morley:


Mumsnet

In reply to Andy Morley:


I have done my best to get up to speed with this thread but must be missing the part where discussing the 'problem' of how to accept thanks in a gracious manner is outdoorsy in nature. Why limit yourself to outdoor forums when you could be discussing this weighty issue almost anywhere? Maybe with enough research and dedication you could establish the framework for a universal protocol so that everyone can sleep a little easier.

In reply to Andy Morley:

I'm never going to offer a gift to anyone who helps me out in the future in the fear that it'll fry the recipients brain!

In reply to Andy Morley:

Mr Morley has, to date, received 195 dislikes in this thread.

House record?

In reply to Chris Harris:


Proof, if proof were needed of my hypothesis that this forum is collectively characterised by highly autistic behaviours. (I'm talking about the counting, not the disliking)

In reply to XYX people who all seem to have fallen over onto their backs with their little legs wriggling about in the air...

OK guys, I'm going to introduce you to a new concept (since the original purpose of this thread went away ages ago, then why not.)

I'm going to call it 'meta-chat'. That means 'chat about chat'. I'm also going to give you a little rule to follow, which is: 'avoid meta chat for the very good reason that it just creates lots of noise and confusion and it makes you look like a dumbschmuck'.

"Why then are you doing it?" You might ask... Well this isn't metachat, its metametachat, and don't ask me what that means, in fact, don't ask me any questions at all if you can help it, unless they are relevant to the real topic of this thread, and as that topic is long done and dusted, don't ask me questions about that either.

Above all, avoid saying 'I don't understand' and avoid asking questions like 'why did you say that?'. The first makes you look rather like a goldfish, going around with its mouth flapping open and closed as if it were perpetually astonished. But goldfishes have one big advantage over you when you express your own astonishment in threads like this one - goldfishes express their astonishment silently. That really is ever so good an idea; compared to some people on this thread, goldfishes are actually smart.

As to the second one, questions like 'why on earth would you want to add something like that?', the obvious retort is 'why would you want to ask such a question' to which the answer could be 'because I wanted to' to which the obvious answer again is 'well I wanted to as well'. Such conversations add no value. Leave them alone. Generally speaking, in the real world if you find yourself perpetually baffled and astonished, you need to keep the holes on each side of your head open and the big one on the front of your face closed. Online, that means keeping your fingers off the keyboard unless you have something important to say.

But hey, it's Christmas, the Saturnalia are here, a time to turn the usual rules on their head. So let's carry on spouting garbage, it really doesn't matter any more for now.

In reply to Andy Morley:

I hope this thread carries on until the weather gets good enough to climb again.

In reply to Andy Morley:

The fog increase is so far off the scale , visibility is down to 1 nM

In reply to Andy Morley:
I'm also going to give you a little rule to follow,

I don't understand. Isn't there a protocol for this situation? Rules are far too simple and will lead to all sorts of misunderstanding. I wonder, does anyone else on the thread know of a suitable protocol for this? If not, do we need to develop one?

In reply to Andy Morley:
I'm always a bit circumspect about participating in threads like this, as they can stray dangerously close to bullying, but in this case I think I am prepared to risk it.

Is it just possible, Mr Morley, that with so many people thinking your bafflingly opaque op is strange and bizarre, that ... they're right and you, for the first time in your life, I am sure, are wrong?

It reminds me of the joke I recently read: Wife phones her husband who is driving home from work. 'Take care honey, I've just heard on the radio that there is a maniac driving on the wrong side of the freeway.' Husband replies 'It's not just 1 maniac, there are thousands of them!'

In reply to Andy Morley:


As well as people who display autistic behaviour, there are also a few people on UKC who are basically nob heads.

We are a diverse community.

In reply to Andy Morley:


217 and rising.

In reply to Andy Morley:


TBH Andy, I think that if anyone is exhibiting autistic traits on this thread it's you.

In reply to Andy Morley:

What I want to know, having read some of this thread, and understanding little. What is the protocol for asking for a bottle of booze from the girl I assisted down off Tryfan with the MRT.

I don't know is she made a donation to them but I sat about for 3 hours with her in the freezing cold waiting for them.

I do know she worked for John Lewis customer services in Essex. If I can track her down is a threatening letter too strong? I don't have any photos to use as leverage, was that a mistake not to take any?

In reply to off-duty:



Maybe he wants to punch Andy in the face. I know I do - and I'm not usually a violent chap.

Ha haIn reply to deepsoup:





Ha ha!

In reply to Andy Morley:

This thread was expected back an hour ago. It's now dark and there's no sign. I wouldn't be concerned except that it's quite mad and obviously has no clue how to return to civilisation.

Time to call out rescue I think. I'll sit with it till rescue arrives but no thanks needed.... (if you insist I'd have to check the protocol).

In reply to Andy Morley:

Thread rescue have been called, but they are not clear on your position, can you please call them back?

In reply to MG:

I don't need a protocol droid.

In reply to Willi Crater:


The name 'Willi Crater' could be interpreted in all sorts of interesting and exciting ways (although not exciting to me personally, I'm reasonably broad minded) - so you should just bear that in mind when you offer to get physical with people. Not my thing personally, but I guess you might get some offers from someone else. Keep on trying - you never know your luck!

In reply to Chris Harris:


Actually, it can be a useful trait in some situations, because those people notice things that other people don't. So the question is, what to make of the phenomenon behind those numbers?

In reply to Andy Morley:


264

In reply to Chris Harris:

Last one to post on this thread is the winner.

So far, that's me...

In reply to ThunderCat:



What's the protocol if you win?

In reply to Orgsm:

Dunno. Maybe we can start a thread about it.

(sneaks back into winning position)

In reply to Orgsm:


This casualty has had too many bumps.

In reply to DerwentDiluted:

You give up too soon...

"PADDLES!"

In reply to Chris Harris:


So what's it all about Chris?

In reply to Andy Morley:


"Alfie", surely?

In reply to Andy Morley:


It's about 300.

292 to be precise.

In reply to ThunderCat:


I was going to say something along those lines, but there is such a thing as subtlety

In reply to Andy Morley:


I bet you can't hit that high note either....(neither can I...)

In reply to krikoman:


I'm working on the protocol, but first I need to carry out a test case.

In reply to Andy Morley:

I spent all day writing a response to this, it was primarily about why no one was brave/informed enough to help me when I needed it - yet when I told them I was going to walk from JOG to LE everyone called me mad. I've spent many hours on the post and even got someone to edit it for me.

I sit down for a bit of relaxation before posting and I realise that some Pakistani immigrant called Mr Khan has nicked all my jokes and these people http://www.time-to-change.org.uk/talking-about-mental-health make more sense than I do.

Life is so unfair, please let me know your mental health experiences.

In reply to Andy Morley:

Wibble.

In reply to FactorXXX:

If a plane was on a treadmill would it take of?

In reply to Andy 976853:

Off

In reply to Andy 976853:


OK, a famous kids' book from the 1920s is all about how to deal with 'natives'. It's a brilliant instruction manual - if it had been in print in the days when Captain Cook was alive so he could have read it, he would probably never have been cooked and eaten. For the purposes of the OP and that book, 'natives' are people like your Mum and Dad, probably also most people that you work with and in particular, they are the strangers you meet while out climbing. Natives paint stuff on their faces if they're female; they like jewellery and they spray themselves with scent or aftershave, not because they are ugly and they smell bad but just because they think of themselves a bit like Christmas trees. Natives like to give each other presents and to receive them and the giving of presents is fraught with deadly significance. This thread is full of natives busily clicking the 'dislike' button because I have threatened their holy tabus. It's not a mental health issue per se, but it can drive you absolutely bonkers. Ring any bells?

In reply to flopsicle:

Sorry! What have you done on grit?

In reply to Andy 976853:

Whimpered....

In reply to flopsicle:
Is there any truth to the rumour (god how I hate that red wriggly line sometimes) that JCT and Norrie are married and living in the fens?

PS. I think it is ... not ....

In reply to Andy Morley:


Eh?

Keep going. I'm starting to enjoy your posts again

In reply to Andy 976853:

Test case failed - sorry.

In reply to Father Noel Furlong:


OK, so are you a real Hoboken 'man in a frock' or is the 'Father' bit your internet fantasy ID?

In reply to Andy Morley:

'Hoboken'?

In reply to Andy Morley:

304 dislikes. Can we make 500 by Christmas?

Does anyone watch Trollied? You know the pharmacist? Is it me or....

In reply to Chris Harris:

Happy to help

In reply to Andy Morley:

Why do you need to know? Anyway, that post's rubbish. It was too easily understood.

In reply to flopsicle:

No. But you've got me intrigued. YouTube link?

In reply to Andy Morley:


Unlikely.

I'm a little unwilling to shatter your carefully constructed illusion that people are disliking your posts because those people wear perfume, however I feel it's only fair to offer an alternative theory. It's possible your posts are garnering some dislikes because they're rambling, incoherent, increasingly sulky and thus causing great amusement.

In reply to Chris Harris:


Do you speak Native?

In reply to Father Noel Furlong:


Someone with no user profile who labels himself 'Father' is obviously trying to make a statement of some kind, albeit probably an obscure one. I don't usually take people with pretend IDs seriously, so if you want me to make an exception for you, you need to answer the question.

In reply to Andy Morley:

I think he's just a Father Ted fan.

In reply to Alyson:


That's what Americans call a 'strawman' meaning a daft theory that you yourself invent only to shoot down in flames while attributing it to someone else, in order to make your own even dafter theories seem credible in some way. What makes you think people hit the 'dislike' button because they are amused?

In reply to Andy Morley:

I did.

In reply to Andy Morley:

Natives paint stuff on their faces if they're female; they like jewellery and they spray themselves with scent or aftershave

Not sure if females use aftershave, as the bits they shave are a bit too sensitive for such stuff!

In reply to FactorXXX:


Just about to talk to someone who does that - I'll ask and get back to you on that one.

In reply to ThunderCat:


Think he may live here,

http://mynydd.org.uk/club-hut/

In reply to Andy Morley:

Just about to talk to someone who does that - I'll ask and get back to you on that one.

While you're at it, have a look at 'Veet for Men' on Amazon...

In reply to Andy Morley:

At the end of the day we're all people with someone missing in our life's, so we fill some of the hole with this rather strange form of disconnected connection. In the future they'll look back on this as really strange and old fashioned like we were living in the dark ages. So all we can do is our best. This year has been hard for many off us. I'm going to have a good look back on this year and plan for the future using the lessons I've learned. My only protocol is to put whatever change in the box that is in front of me at that point when I'm there. Peace love to one and all x

In reply to FactorXXX:

Sh!t I forgot to ask. Not sure about the Veet thing. If I was going to get into any of that stuff I'd go for the full B, S & C month, but somehow it's not my bag, so to speak. I'll really have to ask about the après LG lotion though - this has roused my curiosity.

In reply to BannedUser27:


That's a really brave and a really honest statement, I guess. Not one that I feel inclined to judge in any way. Personally, if anything I have too many people in real life, but they're all long-term people. 'Too many' means that I don't have time to keep up with them all as much as I'd like to. Meanwhile, as to casual, short-term relationships, people who I bump into and chat to crop up in very pre-defined contexts and situations (most of the time) and so my interactions with them are usually routine and if not exactly predictable, then they are by no means strange or startling. So the gap this forum fills for me is to provide an element of the anarchic and chaotic in my life; one that is nicely hidden away from places like Facebook which is where the people I care about tend to intersect with the online world. Having said that, I was down the pub last night with someone who announced that he'd been following this here thread, so there's enough of a possibility of an interaction with the real world to offer a tiny bit of a frisson. But not much. In the past, Facebook aside, I've valued the Internet for its anonymity, without feeling the need ever to invent a character to hide behind.

In reply to Andy Morley:


Statement? Seriously?
Want you to take me seriously? nah, it's ok.

As Thundecat says. As always if you'd bothered to Google you'd know exactly who Father Noel Furlong is.

In reply to Name Changed 34:



Sorry, don't undestand the reference?

In reply to Andy Morley:

Not sure about the Veet thing. If I was going to get into any of that stuff I'd go for the full B, S & C month, but somehow it's not my bag, so to speak. I'll really have to ask about the après LG lotion though - this has roused my curiosity.

Don't fanny about with that sort of stuff, slather it with Sudocrem and enjoy the liberating feeling of a baldy ball bag.

In reply to Father Noel Furlong:


There's an awful lot you don't understand isn't there

In reply to FactorXXX:


I'll suggest it next time the topic comes up.

In reply to Andy Morley:

Have we reached the end of the Internet yet?

In reply to Father Noel Furlong:

A bit intangible and nothing to do with the Mynydd , other than the there hut reminds me of Farther ted.

http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/LocationPhotoDirectLink-g186595-i17886571-Coun...

In reply to Name Changed 34:

Ah. The Mynnyd looks a bit more inviting.

In reply to Orgsm:

No, not at all. We've had a fair insight into some of the negativity of UKC forums - enough to get some idea of the scope of it, but that's only a very small part of the Internet.

Thanks to the Internet, I've been tracking a small group of people crossing one of the last big wildernesses in the UK South of the Lake District. I've seen where they camped each night. I saw that after three days walking, they had a lie-in this morning. I saw them eventually get up and start moving, then leave their pre-planned track before making camp an hour or two after nightfall. Comparing their route against their planned route and the map, I can see that they're picking up a different track from the one I expected. That could be that they want to take in some special scenery, or it could be because one of their number who is less experienced than the other two may be struggling, and so perhaps they are headed towards an outdoor centre. That tells me not to worry, but to keep my phone on me tomorrow and make sure my car's ready to go, just in case. It's a wonderful thing the Internet and its possibilities are endless.

In reply to Andy Morley:

Never mind that.

You wrote: "OK, so are you a real Hoboken 'man in a frock' or is the 'Father' bit your internet fantasy ID?"

What do you mean by "Hoboken"?

In reply to Rob Parsons:


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_van_Hoboken

In reply to Andy Morley:


Thanks; read the reference.

What's that got to do with a 'man in a frock'?

In reply to Rob Parsons


Thanks. Was going to ask the same but assumed he would insult me again for not understanding. It's like speaking to an American. They may speak English, but it's not the same language as us!

In reply to Andy Morley:

No, not at all. We've had a fair insight into some of the negativity of UKC forums - enough to get some idea of the scope of it, but that's only a very small part of the Internet.

UKC is on the whole a very positive place. Want some information about almost anything and you're almost guaranteed to get extremely useful advice from a whole host of other users.
Don't confuse banter with negativity. Compare it with being down the pub with your mates and you do or say something stupid, you wouldn't call the resultant piss taking negative, you'd laugh with the rest of them and get them back another time.

In reply to Father Noel Furlong:

It's like speaking to an American. They may speak English, but it's not the same language as us!

Say something ironic to an American and it will confuse them for a day.
Explain it and it will confuse them for a lifetime...

In reply to Father Noel Furlong:


Interesting. When it comes to the use of language, I would have expected a genuine 'man of the cloth' to understand the term 'frock' as traditionally used by the Church. You can find it defined in Wikipedia, which refers to "frock-like vestments of clergy and ministers, especially those that are used in officiating at worship services, baptisms, weddings, funerals, and communion. Typically, a clerical frock may refer to an ankle length alb, a colored stole associated with the preaching office, or a chasuble worn by ministers for the celebration of the Eucharist."

I don't think that's American usage. Far from being an insult, it is a term of honour and a mark of status. If I had wanted to insult a genuine priest, I would perhaps have suggested that you had been 'unfrocked' or 'defrocked' (you can Google that) which would mean that you had been expelled from the clergy. Odd that you should fail to recognise the term.

As to Anthony van Hoboken, he has nothing to do with the New York suburb of that name so no Americanism there either. Any educated person ought surely to know that Hoboken was a cataloguer of musical works, and so any musical score that found its way onto his list could be considered to be the genuine article.

Why the sudden interest in linguistics? I thought this was supposed to be a climbing forum!

In reply to FactorXXX:

on a musical theme

The American for a dummy is,,,,,,,,,, Der.

and the American for two dummy's is,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Der Der


and the American for a whole nation of dummys is,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Der Der Der der Der

Sorry Mr president,
PS is guantanamo bay still providing board and water wops water lodgings

well threads off the wall any way and its Saturday night

In reply to Name Changed 34:


Rene Descartes : "To do is to be"
Jean-Paul Sartre: "To be is to do"
Frank Sinatra: : "Doo-bee-doo-bee-doo"

In reply to Andy Morley:

Woo hoo!

In reply to Andy Morley:
You appear to have a special friend on UKC in that virtually all of your posts in a contentious thread have a single 'Like'
The same friend appears to be giving a 'Dislike' to posts that disagree with your opinion.
That's not fair, I want a special friend to!

P.S. Have you asked your friend about spraying aftershave on her bits?

In reply to Andy Morley:

Why the sudden interest in linguistics? I thought this was supposed to be a climbing forum!

No, it's a multi-faceted discussion forum owned, hosted and used by people interested in climbing.

In reply to Andy Morley:


Father Noel Furlong is only a priest in the same way that I'm an animated feline character from a children's television series of the late 80's.

In reply to FactorXXX:




That's easy peasy. Create a new login with a new username by setting up a throwaway email address... et voilà! Your own special friend to back you up in tough times

In reply to ThunderCat:

... and in the way that I am an absence of sausage meat and breadcrumb based savoury snacks.

Though that is currently true. I've got some mini pork pies, but thats not the same thing at all.

In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:



http://www.framleyexaminer.com/advertcalendar/

December 24th on the Framley Examiner shows an interesting culinary delight you may be interested in... Bottom left of the hamper...Scotch Peas?

In reply to Alyson:

But shurely no well balanced grown up would resort to such tactics

Andy, say it ain't so....!

In reply to ThunderCat:

Hmmm. Must investigate further....

In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:




I actually did this once, but got confused. Instead of creating a dummy sock puppet account to support and make positive comments against my erratic ramblings, I actually made one and called it Mumm-Rah and ended up fighting with myself in an a bitter internet flaming war which escalated to the point where the mods banned us both.

In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

I am deep.
And on a fundamental level, when you get right down to it, we are all soup.

In reply to ThunderCat:

That's a danger with ventriloquism: the "I'm not going in the box/Get in the box!" thing can escalate pretty quickly, even turn violent.

In reply to Andy Morley:
I would edit my post to remove the part that you felt was offensive if I was able to but it is locked now. So you can consider this an apology.

If I'm honest, I would have happily left it the way that it was (particularly after you called me ignorant ) but this thread has moved from piss taking and descended into bullying and I want nothing to do with it.

In reply to Morty:


Nah, it was piss taking at first, then maybe a little bit of gentle (but still unnecessary) bullying, but I think we're trying to push into into a 'closing down with a bit of silliness' direction now.

I think we're all big and ugly enough to handle a bit of robust banter without falling into a crumbling heap.

In reply to ThunderCat:


Nothing like stating the obvious. But he does play the role really rather well.

In reply to Morty:


Oh FFS! The only bit that was offensive was where you said "I don't mean to be offensive but..." In British English, that is a special code for "I'm about to be jolly rude..." Only I suspect that your intention outweighed your ability to perform


Only in the eyes of those who take these things overly seriously.

In reply to Andy Morley:


Who, Graham Norton?

In reply to ThunderCat:


Elements of that, certainly.

In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

Just in case that was aimed to me, I can confirm I have no connection with Andy Morley either in real life or any sort of imaginary one.

In reply to Andy 976853:

I hear what you're saying

But; at the end of the day, at a very deep level, are we not *all* connected. ..?

<stares Brian cox-like into the distance with thoughtful expression>

(It wasn't. ..)

In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:



Isn't it about time this thread was moved down the pub?

I'm out now.

In reply to Rob Parsons:


Hobo Ken is part of the new 'Barbie Dystopia' range. He and 'Meth Head Babs' live in the back of their faded pink convertible with a stray pitbull called Bouncer.

jk

In reply to Andy Morley:

379 and still rising.....

In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

Why ARE there no more Scotch eggs?

In reply to Alyson:

That's easy peasy. Create a new login with a new username by setting up a throwaway email address... et voilà! Your own special friend to back you up in tough times

Shocking behaviour!

P.S. What happens if you apply aftershave to your bits?

In reply to Chris Harris:


I don't suppose you've ever read 'Brave New World' but there's a role model for you somewhere in that novel.

In reply to Andy Morley:



you know how it ends

In reply to Name Changed 34:


I wasn't making any deep and significant point - I was just thinking of the epsilon lift attendant. Only in this case, I suspect the elevator doesn't go all the way to the top storey.

In reply to Andy Morley:


Have I missed owt? I got caught up in a rather good game of centrifugal bumblepuppy

In reply to ThunderCat:


Oh that sounds interesting, tell us more

In reply to Orgsm:

i,d google it before you get classified as epsilon

In reply to Name Changed 34:


But I'm not Greek!

In reply to Andy Morley:

Did you rescue Denmark's Prince Christian perchance?

To avoid these awkward situations I usually discuss reward before rescuing,

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:


Sounds like you yourself don't have children, but you should be aware that in all but the very saddest of cases, every parent's child is a little 'Prince Christian' to them.

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

Andy didn't rescue anyone, he just took photos

In reply to Andy Morley:

So this has dragged on for a while now, when do we get the full story? What happened and how did you eventually deal with your reward dilemma, how has it all worked out?
jk

In reply to jkarran:


I have already written the full story of the original events - I did that at the time and some thoughtful soul has posted a link to it above. As described above, I very quickly reached a conclusion as to how to respond to the email which prompted this and which I you can find in this thread. Yesterday, I had an email from the father of the child in question saying that he had donated to MRT and joined their support organisation. He also told me he had sent a bottle to my climbing partner of the day as I had suggested since she's the one most likely to appreciate it - I gave up drinking at the start of this year. Meanwhile, lessons learned are:

1. It is surprising the pressure that emergency services can put on two casual passers-by who just happen to be first on the scene. This was not MRT - it was probably various 999 call-centres which could have been anywhere in England or Wales. It would have been entirely inappropriate for us to have recovered someone else's child from a precipice half-way up a mountain equipped only with a light 30 metre rope - it could even have been fatal. I'm sure it must have been hurtful to the pride of my climbing partner to insist to them that neither of us were experienced mountaineers, while secretly biting her lip because she is in fact in the middle of a professional training course to be exactly that. Fortunately, she eventually spoke to a woman who understood - and it did take a woman's perspective to 'get' that point, according to my climbing partner. Anyone who ever finds themselves in that position needs to be prepared for this: It would have been very easy to have caved in, knowing that we had a recorded call from emergency services to vindicate us had anything gone wrong, but it would also have been entirely the wrong decision.

2. Even though no-one was injured in this episode, it is important to manage the psychological aftermath. What really impressed me was that MRT not only did the job you'd expect them to do, they also appear to have done an excellent job of helping the lad's father (who they rescued too) to deal with that aftermath while retaining his dignity. Respect to them for that.

3. Coping tools are important - as reasonably robust individuals, my climbing partner and I were able to manage the impact on us quite well at the time. One way we did this was to write a comprehensive account that night at the camp-site, of everything that happened, to go with the photos I had taken. That proved to be great therapy but was also good for my climbing partner given that she's at uni studying this stuff. Having done that and shared the experience over the following week or so we were then able to put it happily behind us and move forward - we almost totally forgot about it in fact.

4. Revisiting difficult or traumatic events is not always the best idea. For whatever reason I found the recent opening-up of all of this really quite difficult for reasons I am only just beginning to understand. It seems that if you find yourself placed in the position of being the ones who appear to be in control, you are considered to be fairly invulnerable. If ever you find yourself in the position of needing to be helped, that is something you might want to bear in mind afterwards when dealing with anyone who might have helped you. My climbing partner is probably going to be unfazed by this when I tell her about it tonight whereas for me, as a parent myself, this episode stirred up a huge amount of stuff.

5. Managing the story is really important. Again, respect for my climbing partner here who knew that her uni lecturers would pick this up, as they always seem to do whenever one of their students has any involvement with MRT. So we wrote a comprehensive account that we published on Facebook and also in this forum so that our side of the story got across. However I very clearly screwed up here later on because when I got this email so long afterwards, I didn't see the need to carry on managing the story - I thought it would be possible to have an open, honest and grown-up conversation about it in this forum. I could not have been more wrong, but hey, you live and learn.

In reply to Andy Morley:

That makes sense. (Not sure it belongs on this thread)

In reply to Andy Morley:

I have three children, i mentioned Prince Christian lightheartedly as he was in the news yesterday for being rescued by an Aussie life guard. The only difference being that "Camera-shy Gold Coast lifeguard Nick Malcolm has declined to comment on his high-profile rescue". Probably following protocol

In reply to Andy Morley:


Oh it is! Just not when people take a trivial matter and turn it into the equivalent of a diplomatic conference. "Managing the message" when someone gives a token of gratitude...!!

In reply to MG:

I'm taking this thread into the woods now, and I'm also taking my shotgun and a shovel.

I'll be back in about half an hour with just the shotgun and shovel, and a faraway look in my eyes.

In reply to ThunderCat:

I'm taking this thread into the woods now, and I'm also taking my shotgun and a shovel.

Dig deep and make sure that you give it both barrels...

In reply to ThunderCat:

Please ensure it is buried deep enough that small animals and rodents won't dig it up and get harmed in the process.

In reply to Orgsm:


No problem. I've also destroyed the cerebral cortex with an ice pick. We don't need no zombie threads shambling around the woods, do we?.

Say "NO" to Undead Threads.

In reply to Orgsm:


Can't be arsed reading 256 other opinions, but in true UKC style won't keep that from giving mine. I don't necessarily think small animals and rodents would be appropriate "tokens of appreciation". A rat's for life, not just for Christmas, and hamsters given as "tokens" of anything could well be misinterpreted; assuming that's what you meant in the first place.

In reply to ThunderCat:


Can you at least find out if "threads sh*t in the woods" before you despatch it?

In reply to Wainers44:


And if I kill a thread in the woods and there's no one there to read it, does it make a sound?

In reply to MG:


Not quite sure how those last two points are related but whatever....

Thanks chaps for this latest batch of, which was superlative This is an obvious question but I'm going to ask it anyway: There seems to be some sort of consensus emerging that in UKC, other people's opinions are not worth reading. Why add to that number MG when you surely realise that yours is yet another one such? That's not a rhetorical question, I'm genuinely absolutely fascinated.

I also notice that we seem to have acquired some Harry Potter house-elves. I don't have any huge objection to tidy-minded folk, but again there's an obvious question - if you were clever elves (I'm going to be charitable and assume that you are) you would realise that UKC has software that will archive threads like these if no-one replies to them after a bit. Why is it that you like this thread so much that you want to keep it going? Again, I'm genuinely whatever as above.

I recognise that my original question was a trivial one. However, trivial questions need to be asked and answered just as much as Great and Mighty Ones. And indeed, it was, very quickly answered and dealt with after not very much discussion and if it had gone the way of other trivial questions, it would have been left to fade into obscurity. By now, I'm amused and intrigued that such a very trivial question has attracted so very much heat and vehemence. I can only assume that I have unwittingly tapped into some deep and troubling angst amongst most of those who have expressed themselves here. Could this be something to do with the particular time of year, or is it something else altogether?

In reply to Andy Morley:


I'm just taking the piss out of you, like everyone else here.

In reply to Andy Morley: "Could this be something to do with the particular time of year, or is it something else altogether?"

Could it be you?

In reply to MG:


Odd that, that's exactly what I'm doing to to you

In reply to Andy Morley:

Odd that, that's exactly what I'm doing to to you

You need to take 'taking the piss' lessons then...

In reply to FactorXXX:

What - learn to be like MG and just act a little bit stupid? Doesn't work because then you actually have to announce that you're taking the piss like he did otherwise people just think he's being normal.

In reply to Andy Morley:

What - learn to be like MG and just act a little bit stupid? Doesn't work because then you actually have to announce that you're taking the piss like he did otherwise people just think he's being normal.

Think you need to take 'When are people taking the piss out of me' lessons then...

In reply to Andy Morley:

Nope! Everyone except you knows what's going on!

In reply to MG:


Possibly, but I do try to avoid making the assumption that absolutely everyone on UKC is like Bevis and Butt-head!

In reply to Andy Morley:


A "little bit" may be an improvement. I would suggest you learn to ignore more comments.

In reply to KevinD:


Why?

In reply to Andy Morley:


An unusually short response.
Main why will be it will stop Thundercat having to trade in his shotgun for a M-28 Davy Crockett.

In reply to KevinD:



[...as Thundercat walks in with M-28 Davy Crockett]

In reply to ThunderCat:


So this rather confirms my suspicion that UKC Forums is indeed a form of online gaming with the objective being to gain 'likes' and avoid 'dislikes' with a bit of weaponry thrown in. Nothing surprising there - I would normally apologise in this situation for having intruded on the action, however as it's the game that has blundered into a very trivial question thread that I myself started, I don't see any need to make my apologies or to get out of the way of the gamesters.

Do please carry on gentlemen.

In reply to Andy Morley:



If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes should fall like a house of cards. Checkmate

In reply to ThunderCat:


Tsk tsk - mixed metaphors. Sorry, shot yourself in the foot there.

In reply to Andy Morley:

I've named my dog "Cash Reward". If he ever goes missing I can put up posters and people will look for him, but I won't have to pay up when he's found.

In reply to Andy Morley:


That would explain why the thread returned from the woods before Thundercat did.
Still least with the davy crockett that wont be an issue next time they try.

In reply to KevinD:


So roughly what percentage of UKC forums traffic is you guys strutting your stuff? I'm assuming that the people hosting the platform don't mind as long as it packs the crowds in and enough T-shirts or climbing ropes get sold to satisfy the advertisers.

I should quickly add that I don't work for a competitor, I'm not engaging in industrial espionage and I only ask because I'm mildly curious.

In reply to Andy Morley:


(and you accuse me of stating the obvious....)




I was aiming for the thread, but missed.

But really, it's a quote from Futurama.....