This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
What is the grading like at your wall? Do you have a centre that you know you can go to and get a nice ego boost or is it the opposite?
After getting spanked out on the grit in between the recent grim weather, i went back to the depot in Leeds after a long time away and found the setting fairly friendly. Feeling in good shape the following session i went to the foundry and got shutdown on anything and everything! Back around i guess or maybe just back to the depot!
Is grading harder or softer in certain areas? In Sheffield and Leeds the walls seem to be full of stiffer graded problems compared to much of the north west.
After getting spanked out on the grit in between the recent grim weather, i went back to the depot in Leeds after a long time away and found the setting fairly friendly. Feeling in good shape the following session i went to the foundry and got shutdown on anything and everything! Back around i guess or maybe just back to the depot!
Is grading harder or softer in certain areas? In Sheffield and Leeds the walls seem to be full of stiffer graded problems compared to much of the north west.
1
In reply to Morriss:
Well I got my only ever two f7a bouldering routes done in my one visit to Reading and neither of them required much effort. A soft set? Simply routes that suited my strengths? Who knows?
Well I got my only ever two f7a bouldering routes done in my one visit to Reading and neither of them required much effort. A soft set? Simply routes that suited my strengths? Who knows?
1
In reply to Morriss:
It fluctuates, basically if I can do the problem it's soft and if I can't it's hard.
It fluctuates, basically if I can do the problem it's soft and if I can't it's hard.
20
In reply to Morriss:
I've giving up trying to compare one to another. If I go to a new wall, I see where I stand on the grading pecking order and take it from there - I'll work it out as part of my warm up usually. As long as a wall is consistent with its own grades it doesn't matter.
The thing which really annoys me is massive uplifts between grades, so that what presents as a reasonable range of stuff to try turns out instead to be a frustrating time being shut down by moves that have no place on routes of a given grade, when the grade below is benign.
However, it's all entirely academic in the face of launching off a creaking flake with some iffy gear, and a bit of seepage right where you want to put your foot. Plastic-pulling grade counts for nowt when your death-grip on the holds is dynamically increasing the grade as every minute passes........
I've giving up trying to compare one to another. If I go to a new wall, I see where I stand on the grading pecking order and take it from there - I'll work it out as part of my warm up usually. As long as a wall is consistent with its own grades it doesn't matter.
The thing which really annoys me is massive uplifts between grades, so that what presents as a reasonable range of stuff to try turns out instead to be a frustrating time being shut down by moves that have no place on routes of a given grade, when the grade below is benign.
However, it's all entirely academic in the face of launching off a creaking flake with some iffy gear, and a bit of seepage right where you want to put your foot. Plastic-pulling grade counts for nowt when your death-grip on the holds is dynamically increasing the grade as every minute passes........
Post edited at 17:10
4
2
In reply to Morriss:
All walls are soft compared to outdoors. That's what I've found anyway. First trip indoors I jumped 2 tech grades!
All walls are soft compared to outdoors. That's what I've found anyway. First trip indoors I jumped 2 tech grades!
2
4
In reply to Greasy Prusiks:
I'm the opposite indoors is too physical and contrived for me and doesn't allow me to use my feet to best effect. I managed 7a and E3 5c outdoors this year but can't get better than f6b at my local wall.
Al
I'm the opposite indoors is too physical and contrived for me and doesn't allow me to use my feet to best effect. I managed 7a and E3 5c outdoors this year but can't get better than f6b at my local wall.
Al
6
In reply to GridNorth:
That's interesting because I'd say I'm stronger than I am good at technique if that makes sense? At least at the moment. Maybe strong climbers find in doors easier and good climbers find it harder?
That's interesting because I'd say I'm stronger than I am good at technique if that makes sense? At least at the moment. Maybe strong climbers find in doors easier and good climbers find it harder?
In reply to Greasy Prusiks:
>Maybe strong climbers find in doors easier and good climbers find it harder?
I'd tend to agree with this view. Sometimes climbing indoors seems like a totally different sport/discipline to me. It certainly seems to work different body parts etc.
>Maybe strong climbers find in doors easier and good climbers find it harder?
I'd tend to agree with this view. Sometimes climbing indoors seems like a totally different sport/discipline to me. It certainly seems to work different body parts etc.
In reply to Morriss:
I do definitely think grades vary area to area though. The walls in Manchester seem to be softly graded. And that's without the grade range going up as high, lots of walls in Yorkshire set boulders up to v10 ish, the Manchester walls only up to v8, not that this is much of an issue for me!
I do definitely think grades vary area to area though. The walls in Manchester seem to be softly graded. And that's without the grade range going up as high, lots of walls in Yorkshire set boulders up to v10 ish, the Manchester walls only up to v8, not that this is much of an issue for me!
In reply to Morriss:
Yeah it can feel very different especially the very steep routes. They can quite often feel like a campus board.
It feels to me like it varies. My local sets the odd 7b+ boulder problem which is about V8 I think.
The other thing I've noticed is they don't tend to set awkward problems like you get outdoors. There's no frantic scratching at something that may or may not be a hold either!
Yeah it can feel very different especially the very steep routes. They can quite often feel like a campus board.
It feels to me like it varies. My local sets the odd 7b+ boulder problem which is about V8 I think.
The other thing I've noticed is they don't tend to set awkward problems like you get outdoors. There's no frantic scratching at something that may or may not be a hold either!
In reply to Morriss:
My regular venue is harsher than the one down the road but don't have much else to compare. General comments are that it's nearer right than most or that it just is harsh. They have a sense of humour too, letting the kids club grade on occasion, 4+ to make grown men cry!
My regular venue is harsher than the one down the road but don't have much else to compare. General comments are that it's nearer right than most or that it just is harsh. They have a sense of humour too, letting the kids club grade on occasion, 4+ to make grown men cry!
In reply to Greasy Prusiks:
Have you been on the main steep wall at Leeds Wall recently?
> All walls are soft compared to outdoors.
Have you been on the main steep wall at Leeds Wall recently?
In reply to GridNorth:
Same here. Redpoint 7a outdoors, find 6b on plastic hard. Better than the other way round.
It's not the moves, it's the relentless pumpiness and nowhere to rest that gets to me. I suppose it would be easy enough to train and get better at that kind of endurance if I could be bothered.
> I managed 7a and E3 5c outdoors this year but can't get better than f6b at my local wall.
Same here. Redpoint 7a outdoors, find 6b on plastic hard. Better than the other way round.
It's not the moves, it's the relentless pumpiness and nowhere to rest that gets to me. I suppose it would be easy enough to train and get better at that kind of endurance if I could be bothered.
I had exactly the same problem recently. The depot is my local wall and I went to the foundry 2 weeks ago and got shut down.
I used to find city bloc to be stiffer than the depot too, but since making it a fortnightly visit, I now manage to climb at the same level as the depot. Maybe I got used to the angles or the setting? Perhaps this was the problem at the foundry?
On the subject of indoor vs outdoor I suppose it's what you are used to. After spending all summer climbing outdoors, my outdoor grade was around 1/2 a grade higher and my endurance indoors was pathetic. I suspect now that I've mostly climbed indoors since the end of summer my outdoor grade will not have moved despite raising by a few grades indoors.
I used to find city bloc to be stiffer than the depot too, but since making it a fortnightly visit, I now manage to climb at the same level as the depot. Maybe I got used to the angles or the setting? Perhaps this was the problem at the foundry?
On the subject of indoor vs outdoor I suppose it's what you are used to. After spending all summer climbing outdoors, my outdoor grade was around 1/2 a grade higher and my endurance indoors was pathetic. I suspect now that I've mostly climbed indoors since the end of summer my outdoor grade will not have moved despite raising by a few grades indoors.
In reply to Morriss:
I don't want this to be considered as a "put down" of indoor climbers but generally speaking (which is always a dangerous thing to do) climbers who start outdoors and attain a certain level of competence tend to learn to use their feet to much better affect, indoor climbers tend to rely more on arm strength. Plywood doesn't lend itself to usable foot holds and the discipline required to ignore some holds that would otherwise be of use can distract from good footwork and something I find counter intuitive.
Al
I don't want this to be considered as a "put down" of indoor climbers but generally speaking (which is always a dangerous thing to do) climbers who start outdoors and attain a certain level of competence tend to learn to use their feet to much better affect, indoor climbers tend to rely more on arm strength. Plywood doesn't lend itself to usable foot holds and the discipline required to ignore some holds that would otherwise be of use can distract from good footwork and something I find counter intuitive.
Al
5
2
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:
Worse than it was a couple of years ago? Always the most sandbaggy wall. I would rarely climb 6b first go on that wall compared to being able to lap 6c or get 7as first go in the Edge (which wasn't known for being soft).
Awesome Sheffield has much easier grades than Leeds, with a fair variety of say 6cs I can lap easily to ones with genuine stopper moves that I can't even redpoint. The steep stuff is way easier than the Leeds main wall though.
The bouldering at Awesome has that peculiar indoor bouldering system whereby everything up to V3 is actually V0/+, then it catches up with normal grades at around V4-6. I guess it's so beginners can feel they're making progress. I don't really get why the bouldering there is so crap, they've got loads of space and the lead routes are well set, but the bouldering's a bit of a disaster. I suppose the fact that it's therefore always empty is a boon...
> Have you been on the main steep wall at Leeds Wall recently?
Worse than it was a couple of years ago? Always the most sandbaggy wall. I would rarely climb 6b first go on that wall compared to being able to lap 6c or get 7as first go in the Edge (which wasn't known for being soft).
Awesome Sheffield has much easier grades than Leeds, with a fair variety of say 6cs I can lap easily to ones with genuine stopper moves that I can't even redpoint. The steep stuff is way easier than the Leeds main wall though.
The bouldering at Awesome has that peculiar indoor bouldering system whereby everything up to V3 is actually V0/+, then it catches up with normal grades at around V4-6. I guess it's so beginners can feel they're making progress. I don't really get why the bouldering there is so crap, they've got loads of space and the lead routes are well set, but the bouldering's a bit of a disaster. I suppose the fact that it's therefore always empty is a boon...
Post edited at 11:56
2
1
In reply to Morriss:
Get yourself to Stockport before the current boulder set comes down, a really good set especially if you want some harder grading!
> I do definitely think grades vary area to area though. The walls in Manchester seem to be softly graded. And that's without the grade range going up as high, lots of walls in Yorkshire set boulders up to v10 ish, the Manchester walls only up to v8, not that this is much of an issue for me!
Get yourself to Stockport before the current boulder set comes down, a really good set especially if you want some harder grading!
1
In reply to Greasy Prusiks:
I agree. Not found a wall yet which is anywhere close to real grades. I can often climb 7a indoors but can only just get up some 6bs on rock.
> All walls are soft compared to outdoors. That's what I've found anyway. First trip indoors I jumped 2 tech grades!
I agree. Not found a wall yet which is anywhere close to real grades. I can often climb 7a indoors but can only just get up some 6bs on rock.
2
1
In reply to Morriss:
meh, horses for courses. I find that moving from one indoor wall to another takes me a couple of trips to 'dial in' to their way of setting. This transition is the same when I manage to get outside, it just takes a day or so to tune back into where I am.
meh, horses for courses. I find that moving from one indoor wall to another takes me a couple of trips to 'dial in' to their way of setting. This transition is the same when I manage to get outside, it just takes a day or so to tune back into where I am.
3
In reply to Jon Stewart:
Just getting back into indoor climbing, but I've fallen off a 6b+ about 7 or 8 times in 3 sessions. I reckon I got up a 7b+ at Kilnsey in about that time. And there's a 6b where I've failed before the 3rd clip (twice!!!).
I think my fitness doesn't suits indoor routes though, so I'm not saying it 7b+.
Outdoors you seems to get a good shake every 5 metres (or at least on the routes I've ended up on). These routes seem to have no rests, probably because they were set for the comp.
> Worse than it was a couple of years ago?
Just getting back into indoor climbing, but I've fallen off a 6b+ about 7 or 8 times in 3 sessions. I reckon I got up a 7b+ at Kilnsey in about that time. And there's a 6b where I've failed before the 3rd clip (twice!!!).
I think my fitness doesn't suits indoor routes though, so I'm not saying it 7b+.
Outdoors you seems to get a good shake every 5 metres (or at least on the routes I've ended up on). These routes seem to have no rests, probably because they were set for the comp.
Post edited at 13:39
In reply to Morriss:
I find it has less to do with a particular wall than it has to do with the route setter, and also individual preference. At AW Sheffield, I find Alex Fry's routes a lot stiffer than James Garden's - at least at my level (6b-7a). I'm sure others would say precisely the opposite.
> Is grading harder or softer in certain areas? In Sheffield and Leeds the walls seem to be full of stiffer graded problems compared to much of the north west.
I find it has less to do with a particular wall than it has to do with the route setter, and also individual preference. At AW Sheffield, I find Alex Fry's routes a lot stiffer than James Garden's - at least at my level (6b-7a). I'm sure others would say precisely the opposite.
4
In reply to planetmarshall:
Just what I was thinking: route setter. At the GCC, there's two top rope routes on a slight sloping wall, graded at 6b and 6B+. Set by the same guy, who is (gleamed after speaking with someone else), very flexible with a high step. I managed both but they were the hardest 6B and 6b+ I can recall. The 6b+ was easily harder than some 7as I've done. The 6b was more 6c (in fact there were easier 6cs on nearby sections)
Just what I was thinking: route setter. At the GCC, there's two top rope routes on a slight sloping wall, graded at 6b and 6B+. Set by the same guy, who is (gleamed after speaking with someone else), very flexible with a high step. I managed both but they were the hardest 6B and 6b+ I can recall. The 6b+ was easily harder than some 7as I've done. The 6b was more 6c (in fact there were easier 6cs on nearby sections)
In reply to Morriss: There's so many factors - at our best local wall we got all the routes reset after a world cup - and it felt like everything was 2 grades harder than before. But not only were I think the grades stiffer but the style of climbing was a lot different to how it was before - less crimping and more huge moves between sloping and pinch holds. Even tho' I really struggle on the new routes (they're not very 'outdoors') I prefer them for training as they call for new strenghs and are less damaging on my elbows than the crimpy stuff.
I would not say these were soft graded compared to outdoors as the holds might be big, but they are relentless and resting is limited. And you need bang on footwork compared to outdoors where smearing is always an option
I would not say these were soft graded compared to outdoors as the holds might be big, but they are relentless and resting is limited. And you need bang on footwork compared to outdoors where smearing is always an option
2
In reply to Morriss:
Locally I've seen a couple of rude shocks from people moving from a soft indoor venue to a harsh outdoor venue. I've seen some pretty handy folk flattered by V6s having to a) get used to outside, b) take a beating from grades that mean V4 is HARD and c) "That Mat's Rubbish!". All good fun, as long as you don't start demanding a refund from the setters.
Locally I've seen a couple of rude shocks from people moving from a soft indoor venue to a harsh outdoor venue. I've seen some pretty handy folk flattered by V6s having to a) get used to outside, b) take a beating from grades that mean V4 is HARD and c) "That Mat's Rubbish!". All good fun, as long as you don't start demanding a refund from the setters.
1
In reply to Jon Stewart:
Yeah agreed. The bouldering at Awesome has an unloved quality about it, like its just there because its supposed to be. The wall structures are very good. Its just the setting that let's it down. Maybe they need more holds? There's certainly not enough problems to keep one going back and I've found I get bored after just a one or two visits.
> I don't really get why the bouldering there is so crap, they've got loads of space and the lead routes are well set, but the bouldering's a bit of a disaster.
Yeah agreed. The bouldering at Awesome has an unloved quality about it, like its just there because its supposed to be. The wall structures are very good. Its just the setting that let's it down. Maybe they need more holds? There's certainly not enough problems to keep one going back and I've found I get bored after just a one or two visits.
In reply to planetmarshall:
I think they can vary but some Alex's latest routes do seem pretty hard. Have you tried the new black 6c+ on the LH wall?
But also the different styles of setters maybe more or less like one's own style and that will make them feel harder or easier. I quite like Alex's style of setting which I think suits me. I find Yann's routes harder but really like them as they're often great workout routes: very physical.
> I find Alex Fry's routes a lot stiffer than James Garden's
I think they can vary but some Alex's latest routes do seem pretty hard. Have you tried the new black 6c+ on the LH wall?
But also the different styles of setters maybe more or less like one's own style and that will make them feel harder or easier. I quite like Alex's style of setting which I think suits me. I find Yann's routes harder but really like them as they're often great workout routes: very physical.
1
In reply to stp:
Hi STP and Jon.
Interesting to hear your thoughts, I thought it was just me and the group I climb and Boulder with who thought like this. I did wonder whether it was just me behaving like a spoiled brat because Sheffield is blessed with the Foundry and the ClimbingWorks.
I try to remain positive about AW because on a wet Sunday it feels less rammed with people than the others, so often go there. The bouldering just seems to lack finesse. As for the lead routes, they're not really engaging and I get pretty bored, whereas I can pretty much spend all my time on the main wall and bouldering at the Foundry without getting bored.
Interesting that The Boardroom over near Queensferry has similar good wall construction, but with setting by people like Ian Vickers manages to maintain a really challenging and entertaining feel.
Final bitch, what's with 6c+ and 7as having stopper moves. Or is it just me?
> Yeah agreed. The bouldering at Awesome has an unloved quality about it, like its just there because its supposed to be. The wall structures are very good. Its just the setting that let's it down. Maybe they need more holds? There's certainly not enough problems to keep one going back and I've found I get bored after just a one or two visits.
Hi STP and Jon.
Interesting to hear your thoughts, I thought it was just me and the group I climb and Boulder with who thought like this. I did wonder whether it was just me behaving like a spoiled brat because Sheffield is blessed with the Foundry and the ClimbingWorks.
I try to remain positive about AW because on a wet Sunday it feels less rammed with people than the others, so often go there. The bouldering just seems to lack finesse. As for the lead routes, they're not really engaging and I get pretty bored, whereas I can pretty much spend all my time on the main wall and bouldering at the Foundry without getting bored.
Interesting that The Boardroom over near Queensferry has similar good wall construction, but with setting by people like Ian Vickers manages to maintain a really challenging and entertaining feel.
Final bitch, what's with 6c+ and 7as having stopper moves. Or is it just me?
In reply to paul_in_cumbria:
Hi Paul,
To be honest I've not bouldered at AW since last winter. The problems then seemed OK but there just wasn't enough and after a couple of sessions I stopped. The Foundry does a much better job. The Wave is a great feature but overall I think AW has more square metres and could comfortably double or treble the number problems which would improve it greatly.
In terms of routes I don't notice much difference in the quality of setting. I think both AW and the Foundry have excellent setting (though of course there are always the odd exceptions).
Not just you. I've found most routes OK but that red 7a below the main roof and the black 6c+ on L wall both have really hard cruxes. I'll keep trying 'em though. The black route I think is more like 7a+ I'd have thought but still a cruxy one.
Hi Paul,
To be honest I've not bouldered at AW since last winter. The problems then seemed OK but there just wasn't enough and after a couple of sessions I stopped. The Foundry does a much better job. The Wave is a great feature but overall I think AW has more square metres and could comfortably double or treble the number problems which would improve it greatly.
In terms of routes I don't notice much difference in the quality of setting. I think both AW and the Foundry have excellent setting (though of course there are always the odd exceptions).
> Final bitch, what's with 6c+ and 7as having stopper moves. Or is it just me?
Not just you. I've found most routes OK but that red 7a below the main roof and the black 6c+ on L wall both have really hard cruxes. I'll keep trying 'em though. The black route I think is more like 7a+ I'd have thought but still a cruxy one.
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Elsewhere on the site
Loading Notifications...