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Right, ive been climbing solid for 3 years, mix of bouldering and sport, indoor and out but i have a really annoying fear of falling on lead which is really holding me back, i'm quite comfortable to climb 6c/6c+ or try a 7a on a good day on top rope but as soon as it comes to leading ill drop back to a 5+ / 6a and if i get to a hold i'm not comfortable with ill either down climb a bit or take a 'controlled fall' its the whole pinging off the wall ive got the fear of.
Any ideas/ tips to get my confidence up or is it a matter of growing a pair?
Any ideas/ tips to get my confidence up or is it a matter of growing a pair?
1
In reply to photophil:
Short answer, yes. Stop top roping, and stop shouting 'take'. Always go for the next move even when you know you're going to fall off. It'll sort itself out soon enough.
> is it a matter of growing a pair?
Short answer, yes. Stop top roping, and stop shouting 'take'. Always go for the next move even when you know you're going to fall off. It'll sort itself out soon enough.
Post edited at 01:34
13
In reply to photophil:
start with 'falls' on toprope, then fall off with a tiny bit of slack/fall without saying take, then start falling off on lead, with the bolt above you, at waist height etc, and take gradually bigger falls. You have to have alot of trust in your belayer (who you haven't mentioned), is there anything there that could be addressed?
Dave Macleods' book 9 out of 10 climbers has a very good section on dealing with fear.
start with 'falls' on toprope, then fall off with a tiny bit of slack/fall without saying take, then start falling off on lead, with the bolt above you, at waist height etc, and take gradually bigger falls. You have to have alot of trust in your belayer (who you haven't mentioned), is there anything there that could be addressed?
Dave Macleods' book 9 out of 10 climbers has a very good section on dealing with fear.
1
In reply to photophil:
Never toprope anything. Start doing some systematic falling practice; maybe do a course if you & your belayer aren't sure about how to work into this gradually, give soft catches etc.
I agree, deliberately jumping off *is* different from unplanned falling, but unless it's hold breakage you do usually have some time to orient yourself and get control in a real fall, and you have to start somewhere with the practice. What I find more helpful than generic falling practice at the wall is to pick a spot on a real project where I'm having mental difficulty, and just chuck myself off there a few times. (Assuming it's a safely bolted sport route, obviously)
Never toprope anything. Start doing some systematic falling practice; maybe do a course if you & your belayer aren't sure about how to work into this gradually, give soft catches etc.
I agree, deliberately jumping off *is* different from unplanned falling, but unless it's hold breakage you do usually have some time to orient yourself and get control in a real fall, and you have to start somewhere with the practice. What I find more helpful than generic falling practice at the wall is to pick a spot on a real project where I'm having mental difficulty, and just chuck myself off there a few times. (Assuming it's a safely bolted sport route, obviously)
5
In reply to photophil:
I always think it's strange when people say practice falling. Surely the idea of going to a wall is to get stronger at climbing.
no top roping.just real climbing at it will come together.
I always think it's strange when people say practice falling. Surely the idea of going to a wall is to get stronger at climbing.
no top roping.just real climbing at it will come together.
2
8
In reply to mark s:
Guess it depend on what you are trying to improve. Personally I don't bother with leading indoors that much as my leading head is probably my strongest aspect when climbing outdoors. My weaknesses are technique and strength and linking moves in good style. For me it's easier to practice these on a top rope or with bouldering. Likewise if strength was my strong point vs my headgame then I can see that I would probably want to train in a manner to improve mental aspects rather keep getting stronger.
Guess it depend on what you are trying to improve. Personally I don't bother with leading indoors that much as my leading head is probably my strongest aspect when climbing outdoors. My weaknesses are technique and strength and linking moves in good style. For me it's easier to practice these on a top rope or with bouldering. Likewise if strength was my strong point vs my headgame then I can see that I would probably want to train in a manner to improve mental aspects rather keep getting stronger.
1
In reply to mark s:
If your main 'weakness' is fear of safe falls then it makes perfect sense to work at getting 'stronger' at it. It's all training, even if your arms don't get bigger as a result
> I always think it's strange when people say practice falling. Surely the idea of going to a wall is to get stronger at climbing.
If your main 'weakness' is fear of safe falls then it makes perfect sense to work at getting 'stronger' at it. It's all training, even if your arms don't get bigger as a result
8
In reply to MischaHY:
easily said by people who dont have that issue so much. I think the reality is a lot more difficult if you have the voice in your head shouting "dont fall" and the option of a big hold of another colour or hanging on the bolt is available. Personally I dont find clip drop seems to work for me...its the tension building up to a fall I dont like, so at the mo I'm trying to just focus on going for moves I think I can probably (but not definately) make, which inevitably sometimes involves a lob. It works better for me because that way I'm focussing on the move, not the fall. It doesnt work for me though if I absolutely cant make the move because thats just a fall by any other name, innit. I also find bouldering helps, because you get more used to climbing without the security of a rope. When I first started leading what I used to do was to second a route first, and then I would know I could do it, so next time I would lead it. It may not be very pure, but it helped me move from just following to leading close to my limit, and after I got more confident I stopped feeling the need to second routes first.
> "stop shouting 'take'. Always go for the next move even when you know you're going to fall off. "
easily said by people who dont have that issue so much. I think the reality is a lot more difficult if you have the voice in your head shouting "dont fall" and the option of a big hold of another colour or hanging on the bolt is available. Personally I dont find clip drop seems to work for me...its the tension building up to a fall I dont like, so at the mo I'm trying to just focus on going for moves I think I can probably (but not definately) make, which inevitably sometimes involves a lob. It works better for me because that way I'm focussing on the move, not the fall. It doesnt work for me though if I absolutely cant make the move because thats just a fall by any other name, innit. I also find bouldering helps, because you get more used to climbing without the security of a rope. When I first started leading what I used to do was to second a route first, and then I would know I could do it, so next time I would lead it. It may not be very pure, but it helped me move from just following to leading close to my limit, and after I got more confident I stopped feeling the need to second routes first.
Post edited at 09:03
1
In reply to photophil:
I second reading MacLoed's section on training falling. Baby steps are needed, but you need to be going forward. Every winter when I start indoors again, the practice starts with me right on a bolt looking down at my belayer saying "have you got me? I'm going to go!" It's pathetic, really, but like most people,I find it scary.
I need to work on it at every opportunity. The easiest way to start for me was to clip the top bolt/chain and instead of saying "take" to just drop without it tight. Then try a bit more slack. Then try small amounts of rope above a bolt. Then try it outside (don't think I've done that yet!)
Another thing is learning how to fall well. It may be obvious to you, but having feet wide so they can brace a fall is helpful, but also doing that with hands. My hands automatically go to hold the rope, but what use are they there? If they are out to the side and in front, they can protect your head from a smack.
I'm still not there, but I'm more prepared to try hard moves above a bolt, which is what its all about, eh?
I second reading MacLoed's section on training falling. Baby steps are needed, but you need to be going forward. Every winter when I start indoors again, the practice starts with me right on a bolt looking down at my belayer saying "have you got me? I'm going to go!" It's pathetic, really, but like most people,I find it scary.
I need to work on it at every opportunity. The easiest way to start for me was to clip the top bolt/chain and instead of saying "take" to just drop without it tight. Then try a bit more slack. Then try small amounts of rope above a bolt. Then try it outside (don't think I've done that yet!)
Another thing is learning how to fall well. It may be obvious to you, but having feet wide so they can brace a fall is helpful, but also doing that with hands. My hands automatically go to hold the rope, but what use are they there? If they are out to the side and in front, they can protect your head from a smack.
I'm still not there, but I'm more prepared to try hard moves above a bolt, which is what its all about, eh?
2
In reply to photophil:
Climb a lead route but dont clip the top chains...just take a fall to next clip from top, plenty safe and does help, or get you and belayer to agree on games ie soon as they shout 'off' you gotta go no matter what...helps the belayer learn how to give good catches too
Climb a lead route but dont clip the top chains...just take a fall to next clip from top, plenty safe and does help, or get you and belayer to agree on games ie soon as they shout 'off' you gotta go no matter what...helps the belayer learn how to give good catches too
2
In reply to photophil:
Is it worth objectively trying to write down the fears of falling in typical percentage terms? Eg what percentage relates to fear of injury from impact, what percentage relates to the belayer losing control, or them doing something that concerns you? You might be able to reduce some of the fears just from discussing these with your belayer. Is there anything you could do as a team to help build confidence?
Is it worth objectively trying to write down the fears of falling in typical percentage terms? Eg what percentage relates to fear of injury from impact, what percentage relates to the belayer losing control, or them doing something that concerns you? You might be able to reduce some of the fears just from discussing these with your belayer. Is there anything you could do as a team to help build confidence?
3
In reply to photophil:
If you want to learn to fall then you really need to practice it. Pick something steep and clean, brief your partner, don't have them take in before you drop or you'll whip in hard. Take a bunch of falls each session. Get comfortable tapping the top hold and dropping without clipping the chains (assuming indoor/safe and partner briefed). Eventually you'll get used to the sensation and good at controlling your fall so jumping down becomes a non-issue and unexpected falls will be better controlled.
Once you're familiar with falling you can start redpointing so the fall practice is integrated with your normal climbing, your grades will shoot up and it's fun to boot.
jk
> its the whole pinging off the wall ive got the fear of.
> Any ideas/ tips to get my confidence up or is it a matter of growing a pair?
> Any ideas/ tips to get my confidence up or is it a matter of growing a pair?
If you want to learn to fall then you really need to practice it. Pick something steep and clean, brief your partner, don't have them take in before you drop or you'll whip in hard. Take a bunch of falls each session. Get comfortable tapping the top hold and dropping without clipping the chains (assuming indoor/safe and partner briefed). Eventually you'll get used to the sensation and good at controlling your fall so jumping down becomes a non-issue and unexpected falls will be better controlled.
Once you're familiar with falling you can start redpointing so the fall practice is integrated with your normal climbing, your grades will shoot up and it's fun to boot.
jk
2
In reply to Mr. Lee: For me the big problem is belayer! With certain belayers I will climb to fall (never found practice falling helped, I either trusted a belayer or didn't) with others will climb but find hard moves are only done next to gear, with yet others,I will only lead what I can solo, so they can second, or just so I can be moving on rock without soloing. (This last bit sounds strange but I am often only 90% sure they will catch me but 99% sure I can solo.)
Having tried practice falling I get the same problems, all related to belayer. Maybe ensuring that your belayer can catch you effectively is the important thing.
To explain, I am retired, and my favourite partners still work so I do tend to move around partners. Some I will only climb with on rare occasions because of their belaying, but are friends outside of climbing.
Having tried practice falling I get the same problems, all related to belayer. Maybe ensuring that your belayer can catch you effectively is the important thing.
To explain, I am retired, and my favourite partners still work so I do tend to move around partners. Some I will only climb with on rare occasions because of their belaying, but are friends outside of climbing.
> Is it worth objectively trying to write down the fears of falling in typical percentage terms? 'what percentage relates to the belayer losing control, or them doing something that concerns you? You might be able to reduce some of the fears just from discussing these with your belayer. Is there anything you could do as a team to help build confidence?
In reply to photophil:
Fear of falling used to be the most significant limitation of my climbing and over the last year and a half I've worked on it obsessively, this work probably helped me most significantly to jump around 3-4 grades.
Sounds like you are strong and could potentially make a huge gain from consistent work in this field.
I think the most common points that need considering here are the following:
1) It takes time. Like a lot of time to retrain your brain that it's safe to fall. At least a few months for consistent gains. You need to be testing out falling every single time you climb during this time, taking a minimum of 3 to 5 lead falls, every single time. After I complete my normal climbing, I generally jump something way out of my league, somewhere a grade or two above my redpoint limit and this causes me to fall constantly. It's both strength/power endurance training and fall practice combinbed.
2) Allow temporary defeats. I've taken some massive lobs outdoors but occasionally I still fail to commit for some clips indoors if I get the position wrong. It's a weakness, but everyone has a weakness from time to time, be kind to yourself. What matters is that you are improving over a long term - say a definitely improvement over the last 5 months. Developing a good head is not a quick fix at all.
3) Constantly expand your zone of comfort. For me it was a revelation initially being able to committ to hard moves and falling when the quickdraw was at chest level, then at knee level, then at the feet, then with the next quickdraw around close to your chest/waist. My next weakness that needs working is falling when pulling up slack for the clip, which I'll be working on next year.
4) Don't shout "Take!" and give up on the route. Most people shout out take and fall off because they simply let go. Shout "Watch me!". Now you have your full belayer's attention and you are ready to go for that extra move and maybe take an unexpected lob. It will be fine, your belayer's watching you after all!
5) Climb with an awesome belayer who knows you and you know that they can catch you in any situation. I cannot fully commit to very hard moves if I don't know my belayer.
Signs of a good belayer that I personally like:
-They give you a good spot before you clip the first bolt, doesn't matter if it's on a 6a or a 7b, holds can and will spin from time to time.
-They stand close to the wall in the first 3 clips.
-They encourage you and tell from time to time they have you.
-Generally they take safety seriously and do buddy checks before the start.
-They hold the rope with both hands whenever you're shaking out for a minute at a good hand. The amount of people I see at the wall holding the rope with one hand looking relaxed and chatting whenever you're shaking out, trying to commit to the next sequence is quite high. It may be safe depending on the person, however I like knowing that the belayer is totally on the ball.
6) You need to understand that it's pretty much inevitable to make progress if you practice falling every single time you climb.Just keep at it! Remember, trying a 7a and falling off and doing a bit of bouldering on a rope is excellent fall practice. Probably more valuable than going up 6 clips on a 5+, looking down at your knot, looking down at your belayer twice, shouting "Are you ready?", belayer shouting "Yes, jump off", "Okay, I'm jumping!", looking down again and then finally falling off.
7) It's probably the single biggest limitation to climbers worldwide. So be kind to yourself, everyone really has to go through this procces at some stage. Pros did it a long time ago. I think Dave Macleod in a blogpost a long time ago said that as a teenager he jumped from Severe to E2 when he learned how to fall. You will probably be climbing at least 4 grades harder in a year of practice as well.
Have fun in the air, it's a good liberating feeling! :p
8) Don't underestimate the effect of height. Your brain will feel differently when you fall from the 4th clip compared to when you fall going for the belay at 15 or 20 meters. I only realised it was a significant weakness of mine when the local wall set a problem which finished with a dyno to to the last hold. Take a fall from the last part of quite high routes and you'll make quite large gains really.
Also, I want to second Dave Macleod's book 9 out of 10 climbers, he offers a method of dealing with this that is pretty much guaranteed to work.
Fear of falling used to be the most significant limitation of my climbing and over the last year and a half I've worked on it obsessively, this work probably helped me most significantly to jump around 3-4 grades.
Sounds like you are strong and could potentially make a huge gain from consistent work in this field.
I think the most common points that need considering here are the following:
1) It takes time. Like a lot of time to retrain your brain that it's safe to fall. At least a few months for consistent gains. You need to be testing out falling every single time you climb during this time, taking a minimum of 3 to 5 lead falls, every single time. After I complete my normal climbing, I generally jump something way out of my league, somewhere a grade or two above my redpoint limit and this causes me to fall constantly. It's both strength/power endurance training and fall practice combinbed.
2) Allow temporary defeats. I've taken some massive lobs outdoors but occasionally I still fail to commit for some clips indoors if I get the position wrong. It's a weakness, but everyone has a weakness from time to time, be kind to yourself. What matters is that you are improving over a long term - say a definitely improvement over the last 5 months. Developing a good head is not a quick fix at all.
3) Constantly expand your zone of comfort. For me it was a revelation initially being able to committ to hard moves and falling when the quickdraw was at chest level, then at knee level, then at the feet, then with the next quickdraw around close to your chest/waist. My next weakness that needs working is falling when pulling up slack for the clip, which I'll be working on next year.
4) Don't shout "Take!" and give up on the route. Most people shout out take and fall off because they simply let go. Shout "Watch me!". Now you have your full belayer's attention and you are ready to go for that extra move and maybe take an unexpected lob. It will be fine, your belayer's watching you after all!
5) Climb with an awesome belayer who knows you and you know that they can catch you in any situation. I cannot fully commit to very hard moves if I don't know my belayer.
Signs of a good belayer that I personally like:
-They give you a good spot before you clip the first bolt, doesn't matter if it's on a 6a or a 7b, holds can and will spin from time to time.
-They stand close to the wall in the first 3 clips.
-They encourage you and tell from time to time they have you.
-Generally they take safety seriously and do buddy checks before the start.
-They hold the rope with both hands whenever you're shaking out for a minute at a good hand. The amount of people I see at the wall holding the rope with one hand looking relaxed and chatting whenever you're shaking out, trying to commit to the next sequence is quite high. It may be safe depending on the person, however I like knowing that the belayer is totally on the ball.
6) You need to understand that it's pretty much inevitable to make progress if you practice falling every single time you climb.Just keep at it! Remember, trying a 7a and falling off and doing a bit of bouldering on a rope is excellent fall practice. Probably more valuable than going up 6 clips on a 5+, looking down at your knot, looking down at your belayer twice, shouting "Are you ready?", belayer shouting "Yes, jump off", "Okay, I'm jumping!", looking down again and then finally falling off.
7) It's probably the single biggest limitation to climbers worldwide. So be kind to yourself, everyone really has to go through this procces at some stage. Pros did it a long time ago. I think Dave Macleod in a blogpost a long time ago said that as a teenager he jumped from Severe to E2 when he learned how to fall. You will probably be climbing at least 4 grades harder in a year of practice as well.
Have fun in the air, it's a good liberating feeling! :p
8) Don't underestimate the effect of height. Your brain will feel differently when you fall from the 4th clip compared to when you fall going for the belay at 15 or 20 meters. I only realised it was a significant weakness of mine when the local wall set a problem which finished with a dyno to to the last hold. Take a fall from the last part of quite high routes and you'll make quite large gains really.
Also, I want to second Dave Macleod's book 9 out of 10 climbers, he offers a method of dealing with this that is pretty much guaranteed to work.
Post edited at 12:09
18
In reply to johncook:
I've climbed with a lot of unknowns as well. I've found the best thing is just to take control as much as possible when leading I make sure all the external headgame factors are limited as much as possible. This might mean insisting the belayer anchors themselves down, insisting they use eg a different belay plate if I'm worried about friction, asking them to belay in a certain spot. First time climbing with a new partner I try to observe rope slack for the first few metres and correct them if unhappy. Discussing a route with my partner re where the bold or difficult sections might be can be helpful. Talking to my partner about the quality of the gear as I climb. If I'm losing confidence in their belaying I'll discuss it and if the problems continue then I will stop climbing with them. I definately climb a lot better with people I can 100% trust on belay. Trusting the belayer I'd say would be the first step for getting over fear of falling from my experience. Otherwise it is very difficult to objectively assess associated risks when there are factors beyond what you can control.
> Having tried practice falling I get the same problems, all related to belayer. Maybe ensuring that your belayer can catch you effectively is the important thing.
I've climbed with a lot of unknowns as well. I've found the best thing is just to take control as much as possible when leading I make sure all the external headgame factors are limited as much as possible. This might mean insisting the belayer anchors themselves down, insisting they use eg a different belay plate if I'm worried about friction, asking them to belay in a certain spot. First time climbing with a new partner I try to observe rope slack for the first few metres and correct them if unhappy. Discussing a route with my partner re where the bold or difficult sections might be can be helpful. Talking to my partner about the quality of the gear as I climb. If I'm losing confidence in their belaying I'll discuss it and if the problems continue then I will stop climbing with them. I definately climb a lot better with people I can 100% trust on belay. Trusting the belayer I'd say would be the first step for getting over fear of falling from my experience. Otherwise it is very difficult to objectively assess associated risks when there are factors beyond what you can control.
4
In reply to Mr. Lee:
The trouble is that this can be rather awkward and come across as not trusting their competence.
But I agree; a lot of people use belay plates which, in my view, especially taking my weight compared with theirs into account, are inadequate.
I now belay sport and indoors with a Click-Up in which I have absolute faith and I try to encourage people to use it to belay me (those who do love it). The problem is that when I'm being belayed with a normal plate I now have greatly reduced confidence and am scared of fallling off - it probably costs me a grade.
> This might mean insisting the belayer................ use a different belay plate if I'm worried about friction.
The trouble is that this can be rather awkward and come across as not trusting their competence.
But I agree; a lot of people use belay plates which, in my view, especially taking my weight compared with theirs into account, are inadequate.
I now belay sport and indoors with a Click-Up in which I have absolute faith and I try to encourage people to use it to belay me (those who do love it). The problem is that when I'm being belayed with a normal plate I now have greatly reduced confidence and am scared of fallling off - it probably costs me a grade.
In reply to photophil:
Thanks for all the input, a few of you mentioned the belayer. I trust my belayer! he knows my situation and always gives me minimal slack, and always tries to push me but it never seems to rub off.
I remember once when we were climbing at our non regular wall and watching the couple next to us (obviously going through a similar thing to me) the climber was hesitating, had legs shaking like a leaf, ready to shout 'take' and belayer shouted up 'make the move or take the fall'. this happened a few times throughout our session, sometimes he made it sometimes he didn't.
we always joke about it but maybe telling him to be tougher and do the same ...
Its all head games
Thanks for all the input, a few of you mentioned the belayer. I trust my belayer! he knows my situation and always gives me minimal slack, and always tries to push me but it never seems to rub off.
I remember once when we were climbing at our non regular wall and watching the couple next to us (obviously going through a similar thing to me) the climber was hesitating, had legs shaking like a leaf, ready to shout 'take' and belayer shouted up 'make the move or take the fall'. this happened a few times throughout our session, sometimes he made it sometimes he didn't.
we always joke about it but maybe telling him to be tougher and do the same ...
Its all head games
In reply to photophil:
For me, redpointing something hard was the key. I got used to falling off in the same places. Over time, it's helped me fall off pretty much wherever it's safe to do so. Work it on top-rope first if you need to, just pick a route with an easier start and harder finish.
I found practicing falling deliberately felt different to climbing until failure, sounds like you might feel the same.
> Any ideas/ tips to get my confidence up or is it a matter of growing a pair?
For me, redpointing something hard was the key. I got used to falling off in the same places. Over time, it's helped me fall off pretty much wherever it's safe to do so. Work it on top-rope first if you need to, just pick a route with an easier start and harder finish.
I found practicing falling deliberately felt different to climbing until failure, sounds like you might feel the same.
3
In reply to photophil:
If you want to be really tough on yourself, you can play the game "take means slack". If the climber shouts "take", the belayer gives out 10 cm or so and says ' I'm ready' calmly. If the climber shouts "I mean it!", give more out and shout "so do I". Obviously the belayer needs to be sensible and make good judgements.
Only played this game once. We actually ended up thanking each other.
Another thing: Play around with pushing yourself out when you drop. It's amazing how far out and controlled it all feels even on a vertical wall if there's enough slack. There's plenty of time to avoid hitting nasty big holds awkwardly.
If you want to be really tough on yourself, you can play the game "take means slack". If the climber shouts "take", the belayer gives out 10 cm or so and says ' I'm ready' calmly. If the climber shouts "I mean it!", give more out and shout "so do I". Obviously the belayer needs to be sensible and make good judgements.
Only played this game once. We actually ended up thanking each other.
Another thing: Play around with pushing yourself out when you drop. It's amazing how far out and controlled it all feels even on a vertical wall if there's enough slack. There's plenty of time to avoid hitting nasty big holds awkwardly.
1
3
In reply to photophil:
Every so often me and my mate practice the clip and drop,which basically means you clip,then go up for the next move but purposely miss it and drop off the wall.i like this technique as it gives the belayer practise catching too. We normally pick a clip with a long reachy move above and also try to make sure it's on a slightly over hanging route.good luck
Every so often me and my mate practice the clip and drop,which basically means you clip,then go up for the next move but purposely miss it and drop off the wall.i like this technique as it gives the belayer practise catching too. We normally pick a clip with a long reachy move above and also try to make sure it's on a slightly over hanging route.good luck
1
1
In reply to photophil:
Taking the fall instead of clipping the chain works well for some people.
If you do 10 routes a session twice a week that adds up to over a 1000 falls a year, try and work it into your routine and it will become normal.
Taking the fall instead of clipping the chain works well for some people.
If you do 10 routes a session twice a week that adds up to over a 1000 falls a year, try and work it into your routine and it will become normal.
In reply to zmv:
Excellent reply. I paticularly liked point 8. I have trad climbed mainly and was told the leader never falls... but a few mates sports climb and said I need to start doing it to get stronger for trad. So when I started the thought of falling was like playing Russian roulette. But within a year of mixing trad and sport I've ticked my 2 goals for this year. E2 and 7a. And going back to point 8. I was at ban y gor, wye valley. on the top of Heady Days (6b+) at the chains. I was so pumped I could Bearley hold on. I could of hold the chain's to clip. But instead I took my medicine and took the ride. Definitely a turning point. I've not been scared to fall off sport since.
Luke.
Excellent reply. I paticularly liked point 8. I have trad climbed mainly and was told the leader never falls... but a few mates sports climb and said I need to start doing it to get stronger for trad. So when I started the thought of falling was like playing Russian roulette. But within a year of mixing trad and sport I've ticked my 2 goals for this year. E2 and 7a. And going back to point 8. I was at ban y gor, wye valley. on the top of Heady Days (6b+) at the chains. I was so pumped I could Bearley hold on. I could of hold the chain's to clip. But instead I took my medicine and took the ride. Definitely a turning point. I've not been scared to fall off sport since.
Luke.
In reply to luke glaister:
I can still hear your claws rattling on the rock ...
> I could Bearley hold on.
I can still hear your claws rattling on the rock ...
1
In reply to photophil:
I think the turning point comes - when you are so convinced that its holding you back - that ticking routes brings less satisfaction than ticking falls
I think the turning point comes - when you are so convinced that its holding you back - that ticking routes brings less satisfaction than ticking falls
In reply to photophil:
Good question and some great answers. I think the fact that you've identified this as a problem already puts you ahead of many other climbers who prefer to deny that their head is the problem and insist they just need to get stronger and fitter.
I'll just add a few things I don't think got mentioned yet.
One point I came across recently (by author Arno Illgner I think) was to always look down when falling. The idea is practical, to see where your going to land/hit the rock, but also mental. It gives you a degree of control and acceptance of what is happening. I think there's a lot of power in how we use our eyes: cats and other animals in conflict illustrate this really well.
Also I doubt you'll ever lose the fear of falling but it lessens over time. In an interview Chris Sharma admitted he was scared of falling. So from someone who has climbed full time for decades, pushing standards, takes massive plummets on sport and DWS etc. I think its never going to go away completely. I would think fear of falling is completely hard wired into our brains as a basic survival function.
I agree with OnePoundSocks that redpointing hard routes is also a great way to get used to falling. If you try something that takes you at least several days it will be hard enough that you have to commit fully to the moves or fail on the route. If its a route you really want to do then that can make you push yourself to your limit and falls will happen naturally.
Outside I think DMM Revolver biner's help soften the fall and save wear on ropes so a worthwhile investment.
Finally there's a pretty good article on Crux Crush about falling:
http://cruxcrush.com/2014/12/15/a-step-by-step-approach-to-conquering-lead-...
Good question and some great answers. I think the fact that you've identified this as a problem already puts you ahead of many other climbers who prefer to deny that their head is the problem and insist they just need to get stronger and fitter.
I'll just add a few things I don't think got mentioned yet.
One point I came across recently (by author Arno Illgner I think) was to always look down when falling. The idea is practical, to see where your going to land/hit the rock, but also mental. It gives you a degree of control and acceptance of what is happening. I think there's a lot of power in how we use our eyes: cats and other animals in conflict illustrate this really well.
Also I doubt you'll ever lose the fear of falling but it lessens over time. In an interview Chris Sharma admitted he was scared of falling. So from someone who has climbed full time for decades, pushing standards, takes massive plummets on sport and DWS etc. I think its never going to go away completely. I would think fear of falling is completely hard wired into our brains as a basic survival function.
I agree with OnePoundSocks that redpointing hard routes is also a great way to get used to falling. If you try something that takes you at least several days it will be hard enough that you have to commit fully to the moves or fail on the route. If its a route you really want to do then that can make you push yourself to your limit and falls will happen naturally.
Outside I think DMM Revolver biner's help soften the fall and save wear on ropes so a worthwhile investment.
Finally there's a pretty good article on Crux Crush about falling:
http://cruxcrush.com/2014/12/15/a-step-by-step-approach-to-conquering-lead-...
Great answers already, and I was in your boat for many years so can empathise.
It is not a case of "growing a pair", as that attitude makes you feel that one day you have to take a huge leap and start taking massive lobs, which will never happen (and if it does they'll be so scary you're unlikely to repeat them). In fact before I started taking regular falls I took a c.20m fall off Cemetery Gates and I can assure the "man up" camp that this did not help me get over the fear.
What I'd say is that you really need to WANT to get over this issue, and to BELIEVE that you can. Bit like giving up smoking. There is no try … And from the other side, I can say the satisfaction of overcoming the head games will be worth it.
If you get to this stage, then every time you go to the indoor wall with a suitable partner, you should make it your first priority to do the fall training. I suggest clip drop at EVERY clip from the third upwards, for (at least) 3 routes total, then go onto something else. The secret is to aim small in the short term, lots of baby steps, start with falling off from after clipping without making another move. Then make one small move (even just 6 inches up) and fall off. You probably want a few laps at each fall size, with your partner climbing in between. Accept that even with these - tiny on paper - falls, you will be scared. But as you do more you WILL get less so.
Last thing - probably already said - when falling be awake, like a cat, and put out hands and feet to brace yourself. You'll get used to this quickly. Just don't do what some people who're afraid of falling do and close your eyes and fall like a sack of spuds - more likely to clip a protruding hold and slightly hurt yourself.
Last last thing - it's important to believe at a rational level that falling is safe. It certainly is on sport & indoors IMO and in the right conditions. But I've climbed with people who will go to great lengths to explain to me all the weird things they envisage could go wrong. You need to deal with those thoughts - I'm not sure how - else it'll undermine progress.
It is not a case of "growing a pair", as that attitude makes you feel that one day you have to take a huge leap and start taking massive lobs, which will never happen (and if it does they'll be so scary you're unlikely to repeat them). In fact before I started taking regular falls I took a c.20m fall off Cemetery Gates and I can assure the "man up" camp that this did not help me get over the fear.
What I'd say is that you really need to WANT to get over this issue, and to BELIEVE that you can. Bit like giving up smoking. There is no try … And from the other side, I can say the satisfaction of overcoming the head games will be worth it.
If you get to this stage, then every time you go to the indoor wall with a suitable partner, you should make it your first priority to do the fall training. I suggest clip drop at EVERY clip from the third upwards, for (at least) 3 routes total, then go onto something else. The secret is to aim small in the short term, lots of baby steps, start with falling off from after clipping without making another move. Then make one small move (even just 6 inches up) and fall off. You probably want a few laps at each fall size, with your partner climbing in between. Accept that even with these - tiny on paper - falls, you will be scared. But as you do more you WILL get less so.
Last thing - probably already said - when falling be awake, like a cat, and put out hands and feet to brace yourself. You'll get used to this quickly. Just don't do what some people who're afraid of falling do and close your eyes and fall like a sack of spuds - more likely to clip a protruding hold and slightly hurt yourself.
Last last thing - it's important to believe at a rational level that falling is safe. It certainly is on sport & indoors IMO and in the right conditions. But I've climbed with people who will go to great lengths to explain to me all the weird things they envisage could go wrong. You need to deal with those thoughts - I'm not sure how - else it'll undermine progress.
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