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Alpine Climbing Innsbruck

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 Greylag 05 Jan 2016
Hi,

What guidebooks and maps do people use for the Innsbruck area? I'm planning a trip to the Alps for this August. I have a friend who went out there two years ago and he chose something at random and all went well but it wasn't of any difficulty.

Whilst there is an array of books on sport and bouldering there seems to be lack of books detailing the higher stuff of any difficulty.

I'm aware of the Cicerone guides but is this as good as gets?

Thanks
 Ian Parsons 05 Jan 2016
In reply to greylag:
These appear to be easily available, and can all be loosely regarded as being in the Innsbruck area:

http://www.cordee.co.uk/Kletterfuhrer-Alpin---Wilder-Kaiser-det-15-96-292-3...

http://www.cordee.co.uk/Karwendel%2C-German-Topo-Guide-det-15-96-292-254.ht...

http://www.cordee.co.uk/Wetterstein-Nord-Kletterfuhrer%2C-topo-guide-det-15...

http://www.cordee.co.uk/Best-of-Genuss%3A-Band-2-det-15-96-292-377.html

http://www.cordee.co.uk/Wetterstein-Sud-Kletterfuhrer-topo-guide-det-15-96-...

Wetterstein Nord is probably more easily reached from Garmisch in Germany, but the southern half of the range is obviously very local to Innsbruck. There are detailed German language guidebooks to the Stubai area - indeed I have one such - but can't see anything currently available from a UK supplier.
Post edited at 11:56
 Ian Parsons 05 Jan 2016
In reply to greylag:

I'm assuming, of course, that by "the Innsbruck area" you mean anywhere to which an inhabitant of the city might go (by car) for a day's climbing, rather than somewhere that's close enough to be handy for evening cragging after work, for example - unless your surname happens to be Steck.
OP Greylag 06 Jan 2016
In reply to Ian Parsons:
I am yes. Sorry for the late reply.

Thank you for your links some there I haven't seen.

It may be a common assumption in the UK but access to Austrian / European guidebooks (in English) is widely accessible hence my post.

I (we'll be based in Seefeld) if that helps.

Thanks
Post edited at 01:05
 Ian Parsons 06 Jan 2016
In reply to greylag:

Back in the 1970s West Col Productions published a range of English-language Alpine guidebooks, including several to the various North Tirolese areas around Innsbruck, which were widely available in UK climbing shops. Nowadays you can probably only find these secondhand. Here are three:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=sr_adv_b?search-alias=stripbooks&unfilter...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=sr_adv_b?search-alias=stripbooks&unfilter...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=sr_adv_b?search-alias=stripbooks&unfilter...

I'm sure I recall guides to the Wettersteingebirge and Karwendelgebirge in their range as well but can't see any on Amazon - although various maps come up which may be of interest. The Ötztal area west of the Stubai, unlike the limestone ranges closer to Innsbruck, is more of a classic easy peak-bagging area than a rock-climbing one; there are various (presumably) sport crags in the valleys, but the high stuff is mostly glaciers, easy rock ridges and snow slopes. It's an ideal destination for a traditional "first Alpine season", but possibly not quite what you're after.

The widespread shift from written text guides to the topo format has substantially reduced the need for their publication in a familiar language, which I'm sure in part explains why there seem to be fewer English-language guides to the area available now than in the past; most people find that, with a smattering of climbing vocabulary in the relevant language, topos are generally fairly easy to understand.

The German-language Stubai guide that I mentioned earlier is "Klettern in den Stubaier Alpen und im Valsertalkessel" by Andreas Orgler, 1992 edition; no idea whether there's a later version of this, but there's bound to be something available.
OP Greylag 06 Jan 2016
In reply to Ian Parsons:

Many thanks again for the suggestions and links.

I may get one of the West Col books if only to own what looks to be a classic!
 MG 06 Jan 2016
In reply to greylag:

Have you ever used a West Col guide? Proceed with caution...
OP Greylag 06 Jan 2016
In reply to MG:

No I haven't and I wouldn't have used as my only guide anyway given its age but thanks for the word of warning.

Can you shed light on why it should be used with caution?
 MG 06 Jan 2016
In reply to greylag:

They can be wildly l inaccurate (not just dated). I think due to being written in the authors' holidays with limited info. Sometimes routes are described fine, but you never know until you are on them!
 Ian Parsons 08 Jan 2016
In reply to greylag:

This is the West Col Karwendel guide:-

http://www.abebooks.co.uk/9780901516503/Karwendel-Climbers-Guide-Alpine-Gui...

I can't really comment on MG's suggestion of the need for caution, not knowing what actual events or knowledge might lie behind it. I can't recall, though, ever hearing of such a general complaint about West Col's output, and it was certainly never my experience with their few UK and Alpine guides that I've used; maybe the reference was only to the latter. Most of the editions that I've highlighted were produced forty or more years ago at a time when - compared to nowadays - inaccuracy in guidebooks generally was not uncommon, particularly in those to overseas areas; I can certainly recall occasions when the written description bore little resemblance to the ground actually being covered, and simply figuring it all out was part of the challenge! It goes wjthout saying that, in respect of information that is liable to change over time, any old guide is going to be somewhat out of date; in the absence of the availability of anything more current, however - in this instance the specific preference for something written in English - an old edition can still be of use for things like area layout, mountain topography, what the main routes are and where they go (however accurately or not they may be described in detail), etc.

I do, however, find the point about "being written in the author's holidays" hard to understand. The fact that since the early 1970s neither the original publisher/authors nor anybody else appears to have stepped in to "fill the gap in the market" by producing English-language guidebooks to this area (and probably several others) suggests that the whole procedure was never much of a money-spinner and was therefore unlikely to be able to afford professional guidebook writers. I've no idea what remuneration might have been possible but I suspect that most overseas guides of the time would have been written by people who were essentially "on holiday", and probably over the course of several. (Ironically, of course, the author of many West Col and Alpine Club titles - Robin Collomb - may indeed, in his guise as West Col's proprietor, be regarded as having been more "professionally engaged" than most other such writers!) So it seems a bit odd to flag this up as a criticism. With today's much easier transport and communication, though, together with an expanding market, this whole commercial situation seems to be changing; Rockfax's various overseas successes would appear to confirm this. Maybe they should cast an eye at the various rock-climbing areas of The Tirol - assuming they're not already doing so. As a product of one of the generations brought up on "Nanga Parbat Pilgrimage" I'd probably buy a copy purely out of interest - and would certainly do so if ever climbing there again.
 MG 08 Jan 2016
In reply to Ian Parsons:
>I can't recall, though, ever hearing of such a general complaint about West Col's output, and it was certainly never >my experience with their few UK and Alpine guides
>I can certainly recall occasions when the written description bore little resemblance to the ground actually being >covered,

I am not sure how both the above statements can be true! But basically the latter is my experience at times with West Col guides, which I think is worth flagging up to people who may be planning to use them. My suggestion that the reason is they might have been written in holidays, rather than fully researched, was based in part on the text in the introduction of some of the guides.
Post edited at 15:01
 IPPurewater 08 Jan 2016
In reply to MG:

I too have found the old West Col guides to have big inaccuracies. Be warned !

I'd get the newer ones possibly from this publisher
http://www.panico.de/buecher/alpin-kletterfuehrer.html
 Ian Parsons 08 Jan 2016
In reply to MG:


> I am not sure how both the above statements can be true! But basically the latter is my experience at times with West Col guides, which I think is worth flagging up to people who may be planning to use them. My suggestion that the reason is they might have been written in holidays, rather than fully researched, was based in part on the text in the introduction of some of the guides.>

Yes - perhaps I was a little unclear. They can be true, and indeed are, because the second quoted sentence didn't refer to routes in West Col guides. But I agree; it probably didn't contribute much to trot out the "not a complaint I've heard before" comment, which could simply be due to a sheltered existence! My point, though - if a little obscured by enveloping rambling - was that the guides in question were written at a time when guidebook inaccuracy was not unheard of, across the board - West Col, Alpine Club, whoever; so any caution would more fairly cite old editions in general rather than any one publisher in particular. There is, of course, less reason to be using an old AC guide nowadays - at least to popular areas, which they mostly are; there's normally a much more recent version available, wherein the inaccuracies of earlier editions will have been rectified. This tends not to apply with West Col; in some cases their original edition or an early second edition remain the only climbing guidebooks to that area ever to have been published in English - so if that's what you're looking for it's probably your only option, hopefully supplemented by a modern locally-produced topo publication in its home language. In short - warning against an old guidebook because it happens to be from West Col appears somewhat unfair; any inaccuracy is quite likely to simply be due to its age.

I don't know whether the paragraph in the introduction to a 1969 edition matches any to which you refer, or indeed in any of the Tirol volumes that I've sourced:

"The author has spent several seasons in the area, doing most of the walks, classic routes and a number of extreme climbs. When it has not been possible to acquire personal knowledge, several local experts have been consulted for their views and opinions."

This seems pretty reasonable to me, and I would imagine was how most guidebook writers went about their task at the time. I don't, for instance, think it realistic to suggest that the writer should himself have climbed every route. In the introduction to his 1970 AC Dolomites editions John Brailsford acknowledged input from several other people, including heavy reliance on translations from Italian and German guidebooks. He also mentioned the 1968 ACG Bulletin containing a list of corrections to an earlier 1963 guide that had been sent in by climbers in the interim. That's very much a factor; guides tend to improve over the years with feedback and subsequent editions, and when visiting a less mainstream area it goes without saying that it's unlikely to be as well served with guidebooks - whether with respect to accuracy or mere availability - as somewhere with a higher demand. Modern first editions have, among other things, the example of a generally high current guidebook standard to live up to, so tend to be better than they might have been if produced several decades ago.

And, of course, you and Mr Purewater are quite right; it's certainly worth reminding people that an old guide to an area is probably not as reliable as a recent one - whatever language that might involve.


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