UKC

Hello,

European climber here, but I've climbed in the Cairngorms previously (only 2/3 days though).

We're planning to go back, January 26th to Fabruary 4th. I have some questions if you guys don't mind!

1) I found these maps, 1/25000 is the magnitude I use in the Alps as well, but I'm wondering, are these winter or summer maps or does that not make a difference in Scotland? In the Alps (let's say Chamonix for example) I just buy whatever map of the region (usually summer maps, they're a lot more common) and if you're there in Winter you just now the region will be a lot more snowwy than the map suggests. In Austria or the likes, for winter touring, they have winter maps, which are a lot more white than the summer maps which is useful because it helps you plan tours (is that col at 1600m usually completely covered in snow or not? - questions). So, long question short, is this map (http://www.cordee.co.uk/Aviemore-Andamp%3B-Central-Cairngorms-AA-Map-No-28-... the kind of map I can use for winter technical climbing and mountaineering in the Aviemore region? Or is it more for summer hikers?

2) I was planning on camping out with the tent. I've camped in my tent for climbing lots of times in the Alps (Vallee Blanche, Tour Glacier, Combe Maudite, ...) and I've snowholed before, and I would prefer staying in my tent because I find it more comfortable than a snowhole (less wet and less fatiguing to build). But I've been warned about the crazy Cairngorm winds (and I've kind of experienced them for myself last winter). However, I have a strong tent (TNF VE25) and I somewhat find it hard to believe that regular wind conditions in the Cairngorms could really trash my tent. But I've heard so many warnings about the winds (and tents in those winds) that I'd like to ask. Is camping out with my tent a bad idea (for other reasons than not having a place to dry my boots/gloves, ... - I don't mind that). Where would you advise us camping? What wind speeds would you consider "not-regular", i.e. "tent-trashing"? I know, kind of random question because how you put up the tent and how sheltered it might be by snowy walls/big boulders makes all the difference, but you know, as a guideline? If you think camping out there is a bad idea, where would you suggest we should camp?

3) The BMC winter meet is 24 to 31 january (I was actually one of the two Belgian climbers to go to the meet, but since a lot of climbers applied, Belgium was restricted to one climber now and I'm not going to the meet anymore). Anyways, my question: how crowded will the Cairngorms, the Ben and Glen Coe during the winter meet be? Will it be VERY crowded, or just a but busier than usual and not really a problem? I was actually planning of going over the goat track in the Cairngorms the first few days and camping in the tent down in the valley at the base of Carn Etchachan. We'll be a bit further away from a lot of crowds that way (who I think, will either do shorter walk-ins to An t Sneachda or An Lochain, or go over the goat track as well but we'll be on the route we'd like to do first because we're camping).

Thanks in advance!

Denis

In reply to HosteDenis:
Hi Denis,

1) Maps aren't summer or winter in particular. It's partly personal taste but I find 1:50,000 perfectly adequate for most of Scotland (the ground is less complex than the Alps). Ordnance Survey No. 36 would do the job for the Cairngorms.

2) It would be unusual for winds to be really terrible above Loch Avon (as opposed to, say, on the plateau) but the main thing obviously is to check the forecast. You'll know yourself what constitutes good and bad weather and if it's not the sort of conditions you want to be climbing in, chances are you won't want to be camping either!

3) Whether it's busy or not is mainly down to weather, conditions and venue. Basically unless it's the Northern Corries of Cairngorm at a weekend you should be fine for getting on a route without having to queue.

Have a good trip!

In reply to HosteDenis:
Hi Denis, the BMC Cairngorm map is the one I use . It's 1: 40 000, made from water resistant paper and has the main climbing crags marked on it. It's got other stuff on the back that you can read if you are stuck in your tent !
Camping by Loch Avon could be great or horrendous ! There is a bivi ( known as a howff here) under a big boulder called the Shelter Stone there too.

Hope you have a good trip,

Dave

In reply to HosteDenis:

I think others have 1) and 3) covered.

Regarding 2):
- there are bothies that are convenient for some winter climbing in the Cairngorms. They cope with wind better than tents.
- if you are planning to rent a car then bunkhouses and early starts walking to the crag might be preferable to camping especially for drying wet kit in the evening

Have fun!

In reply to Nemo9:
Hi everyone,

Thanks so far for the replies!

I've heard about the Shelter Stone when I was there last year, but a tent to me sounds quite a bit nicer. But, if I can locate it, the Stone might be a nice emergency shelter but off course, I plan not to use it. Although I think (will first have to buy a map to check this) that Lochnagar bothy will be a better emergency bothy than the Shelter Stone, if it's not to far from where we'll be camping (this will become clear to me once I have my map).

We will not rent a car but I'll drive my climbing van down there myself (and take a ferry from Duinkerke to Dover) so we'll have wheels. It sleeps four and is as good at drying gear as our tent, so we'll just sleep in the tent unless we move from/to Aviemore/Fort William.

We plan to not sleep in a bunkhouse or campsite if possible, we're on a very tight budget because we go on way too much climbing trips and have way too much climbing gear to save any money! I'm definitely not against them, I had a lovely two nights stay in the Aviemore bunkhouse last year, it's just that for us they're expensive. Need to have some money left to try some of your whiskies

In reply to HosteDenis:

if your only planning on climbing in the northern corries you are far better sleeping in your van in the ski centre car park, its only about 45 min walk in so your not saving much time and it will be much more pleasant. there is very little flat ground to pitch a tent on in the corries and no shelter. the wind often gets funnelled down into the base of the corrie, so there may be little wind on a given climb but its so windy its hard to stand up straight at the bottom! trying to camp on the plateau in winter would likely be suicide (winds in excess of 130mph are not uncommon up there!)!

if your planning on climbing at a more remote crag then camping may well make sense, especially if its good weather. im sure you can find flat ground and shelter in the deeper valleys

In reply to HosteDenis:

Just to add to what others have said regarding camping: If you do decide to camp high up (above the snow line), you could always build a snow wall around your tent to protect it from the wind.

As others have said, there aren't any summer/winter specific maps, they're all mapped in snow-less conditions (because snow conditions can be so variable in Scotland!). What scale you go for really is personal taste. I use 1:25 and 1:50 OS maps and the 1:40 Harvey's maps and they all have their advantages. The 1:25 OS maps you linked to are the most detailed (and they are very detailed compared to a lot of other maps) but the big downfall (in my opinion) is the detail (crags, boulders etc) obscuring the contour lines.