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OK, this might seem an odd place to post this, but I'd appreciate this group of people's advice. By way of background, I got into winter climbing a couple of years ago (having done a fair bit of hillwalking) and got my first proper season last winter, having an amazing time on a variety of routes across the II - V range. After that first bit of winter climbing a couple of years back, I decided I might as well use all the nice gear I'd bought to get into rock climbing too and have enjoyed that over the last couple of years at the easy end of the grade spectrum. (This summer led a couple of VSs for the first time, seconded and then led an HVS and just about managed to second an E1 - albeit just very long, sustained and at times poorly protected 5a, so more E1 from the leader's point of view.)
Anyway, having previously thought of rock climbing as a wee bit on the side, I've now decided for various reasons that I'd like to get into it properly, so have in the last few months been trying to get into indoor climbing in an effort to improve. Thus far, I'm climbing at predictably low grades, given my level on actual rock: once fluked a 6a lead onsight, worked a couple of others, top-rope onsight successes of some 6a's but even failing on the odd 5+ etc. Essentially I'm crap at rock climbing and badly need to improve! This is where, I'm told, bouldering is supposed to come in. However, I find that as soon as I'm more than halfway up the wall, if I feel there's a significant chance I might come off (which is the case on all but the very easiest of problems) I'm generally too scared to go on - unless in the company of a partner to egg me on, but then we'd be doing some roped climbing together! Of course, given that I'm happy climbing on sketchy placements well above gear in winter, and have the scars to prove that I'm willing enough to take the odd substantial lead fall on rock, this doesn't make a lot of sense. I think what it is though is a kind of risk/benefit thing: I don't mind risking a wee bit of an injury for the sake of an amazing winter line on the hallowed ground of the Scottish winter mountains - or even on a single pitch quarry crag - but it just doesn't seem worth putting up with the fear every few minutes for the sake of getting to the top of a few metres of plastic in the vague hope of some future improvement.
Am I just really weird? Can anyone else out there understand this? What can I do to fix this? Should I even be trying to fix it?!
Anyway, having previously thought of rock climbing as a wee bit on the side, I've now decided for various reasons that I'd like to get into it properly, so have in the last few months been trying to get into indoor climbing in an effort to improve. Thus far, I'm climbing at predictably low grades, given my level on actual rock: once fluked a 6a lead onsight, worked a couple of others, top-rope onsight successes of some 6a's but even failing on the odd 5+ etc. Essentially I'm crap at rock climbing and badly need to improve! This is where, I'm told, bouldering is supposed to come in. However, I find that as soon as I'm more than halfway up the wall, if I feel there's a significant chance I might come off (which is the case on all but the very easiest of problems) I'm generally too scared to go on - unless in the company of a partner to egg me on, but then we'd be doing some roped climbing together! Of course, given that I'm happy climbing on sketchy placements well above gear in winter, and have the scars to prove that I'm willing enough to take the odd substantial lead fall on rock, this doesn't make a lot of sense. I think what it is though is a kind of risk/benefit thing: I don't mind risking a wee bit of an injury for the sake of an amazing winter line on the hallowed ground of the Scottish winter mountains - or even on a single pitch quarry crag - but it just doesn't seem worth putting up with the fear every few minutes for the sake of getting to the top of a few metres of plastic in the vague hope of some future improvement.
Am I just really weird? Can anyone else out there understand this? What can I do to fix this? Should I even be trying to fix it?!
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In reply to Tricadam:
I'm assuming your wall has a nice padded floor in the bouldering area? If so, stop being a pussey! :-P
The only time I've really hurt myself bouldering at an indoor wall, was just stepping off the wall and slipping down the gap between the mats.
Try jumping from higher and higher on the wall, just to get used to it. I personally try to down climb as much as possible when bouldering at the wall. If for no other reason than to improve stamina.
I'm assuming your wall has a nice padded floor in the bouldering area? If so, stop being a pussey! :-P
The only time I've really hurt myself bouldering at an indoor wall, was just stepping off the wall and slipping down the gap between the mats.
Try jumping from higher and higher on the wall, just to get used to it. I personally try to down climb as much as possible when bouldering at the wall. If for no other reason than to improve stamina.
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In reply to Tricadam:
I am in a similar but less acute situation and I think you have your comment about risk benefit sums it up quite nicely. I started indoor bouldering for exactly the same reasons as you. I loved trad climbing but I was a rubbish climber. Eventually I realised that I had to boulder to improve. I went through a phase where I did not want to fall off onto the mats and I found the climbing hard work. In time though I gained the strength and technique I needed fell off a lot and built my bouldering confidence. Now I love it and I hardly do anything else. I still often do not go for the top hold if I think that I have cracked the problem because I don't want to take the risk of a fall from the top if I think I have already had the benefit of the problem. Another comment I would make is that when I started I found I was very weak and I only really started to benefit from bouldering when I decided to to train on and nail the lower grade circuits and ignore anything hard. In this way I made slow but consistent and most importantly rewarding progress. I found that jumping onto the hard circuits before you are ready gives no training benefit as you don't get up anything and destroys confidence. Hope some of that helps
I am in a similar but less acute situation and I think you have your comment about risk benefit sums it up quite nicely. I started indoor bouldering for exactly the same reasons as you. I loved trad climbing but I was a rubbish climber. Eventually I realised that I had to boulder to improve. I went through a phase where I did not want to fall off onto the mats and I found the climbing hard work. In time though I gained the strength and technique I needed fell off a lot and built my bouldering confidence. Now I love it and I hardly do anything else. I still often do not go for the top hold if I think that I have cracked the problem because I don't want to take the risk of a fall from the top if I think I have already had the benefit of the problem. Another comment I would make is that when I started I found I was very weak and I only really started to benefit from bouldering when I decided to to train on and nail the lower grade circuits and ignore anything hard. In this way I made slow but consistent and most importantly rewarding progress. I found that jumping onto the hard circuits before you are ready gives no training benefit as you don't get up anything and destroys confidence. Hope some of that helps
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In reply to Tricadam:
Possibly not...
The statistics suggest that in terms of injuries indoor bouldering is actually not that safe (lots of broken ankles, busted knees etc.) so a fair degree of trepidation is not unreasonable. So, you are definitely not being completely paranoid.
My main message would be, don't worry too much about it, especially in the short term. I've been climbing twenty years and I'm still hesitant about doing hard, tenuous last moves high on indoor bouldering walls.
However you do want to develop good technique and being relaxed about small falls and jumping off under control is something you should learn. So it is well worth persevering with easy bouldering so you can at least get to the top of the wall, down climb perhaps two moves and jump off perfectly happily. Then it is just a question of plugging away at it on slightly harder routes.
Hopefully you should get to a happy medium where you may occasionally back off the last move or two on some harder problems but you'll be perfectly fine the rest of the time.
HTH
> Should I even be trying to fix it?!
Possibly not...
The statistics suggest that in terms of injuries indoor bouldering is actually not that safe (lots of broken ankles, busted knees etc.) so a fair degree of trepidation is not unreasonable. So, you are definitely not being completely paranoid.
My main message would be, don't worry too much about it, especially in the short term. I've been climbing twenty years and I'm still hesitant about doing hard, tenuous last moves high on indoor bouldering walls.
However you do want to develop good technique and being relaxed about small falls and jumping off under control is something you should learn. So it is well worth persevering with easy bouldering so you can at least get to the top of the wall, down climb perhaps two moves and jump off perfectly happily. Then it is just a question of plugging away at it on slightly harder routes.
Hopefully you should get to a happy medium where you may occasionally back off the last move or two on some harder problems but you'll be perfectly fine the rest of the time.
HTH
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In reply to Tricadam:
It's just normal, bouldering walls are high enough so your mind knows you could get hurt coming off and it doesn't trust the mats yet so you get scared. All you need to do is stick at it until your brain starts to trust your ability to come off without getting hurt.
You could try traversing in the top half of the wall, just using any convenient hold and doing lots of moves so you get used to it.
It's just normal, bouldering walls are high enough so your mind knows you could get hurt coming off and it doesn't trust the mats yet so you get scared. All you need to do is stick at it until your brain starts to trust your ability to come off without getting hurt.
You could try traversing in the top half of the wall, just using any convenient hold and doing lots of moves so you get used to it.
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In reply to Tricadam:
Sounds to me that you're caught up in the numbers/achieving game too much as a measure of how good a climber you are. Try, instead, to view being in control of your climbing as success.
One mentality I use when teaching at low grades is that you should always climb down rather than jump off- based on the old adage that most climbers grew up with (before indoor walls). If you can't then go down the grades until you can remain in control. Most people struggling with this up to about F6a have fundamental lack of techniques, especially footwork. One session with a good instructor will often give enough analysis & pointers to work on for weeks.
The worry about falling & hurting is justified- indoor walls are far steeper and unforgiving than real routes that you sound to have been on so far even if the surroundings are infinitely safer. I don't know the stats on injuries but I do know indoor wall liability insurance is silly expensive compared to insuring an instructor to work in the mountains.
Learning control over your climbing indoors will certainly benefit the outdoor stuff too. Good luck!
Sounds to me that you're caught up in the numbers/achieving game too much as a measure of how good a climber you are. Try, instead, to view being in control of your climbing as success.
One mentality I use when teaching at low grades is that you should always climb down rather than jump off- based on the old adage that most climbers grew up with (before indoor walls). If you can't then go down the grades until you can remain in control. Most people struggling with this up to about F6a have fundamental lack of techniques, especially footwork. One session with a good instructor will often give enough analysis & pointers to work on for weeks.
The worry about falling & hurting is justified- indoor walls are far steeper and unforgiving than real routes that you sound to have been on so far even if the surroundings are infinitely safer. I don't know the stats on injuries but I do know indoor wall liability insurance is silly expensive compared to insuring an instructor to work in the mountains.
Learning control over your climbing indoors will certainly benefit the outdoor stuff too. Good luck!
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In reply to Tricadam:
Interesting. I can see where you're coming from.
I'd say outdoor bouldering, particularly on your own, is relatively dangerous for mild to moderate injuries such as sprained ankles and even broken legs. You can miss the mat or there could be a rock under the mat or you could just land badly.
Indoors however the risk is significantly lower, though it's still there. You're unlikely to miss the mat, which will be nice and thick with a level surface underneath. You can still land badly though. So what you've got to do is learn to land well and get used to falling. Try bouldering with a friend or two who can act as spotters (sometimes advisable in any case even indoors). Also, practice controlled falls, starting half way up the wall and working upwards. It's also a good idea to watch experienced boulderers and how they control their falls.
You will find that most falls can actually be controlled. There will be a few wild swings off dynamic moves and awkward sideways or back first falls off steep moves but you can leave those types of problems until you've got more confidence and experience.
It's a good idea to hang out with people who are better and can give you tips on technique. Bouldering is ideal for that because people can show you moves and can also easily see what you're doing wrong. That's not so easy when you're half way up a route.
By the way, you say you don't mind a wee bit of an injury for the sake of a winter line. Bear in mind that, unless you're on a well protected mixed route, a fall in winter could easily result in a very nasty injury...
Interesting. I can see where you're coming from.
I'd say outdoor bouldering, particularly on your own, is relatively dangerous for mild to moderate injuries such as sprained ankles and even broken legs. You can miss the mat or there could be a rock under the mat or you could just land badly.
Indoors however the risk is significantly lower, though it's still there. You're unlikely to miss the mat, which will be nice and thick with a level surface underneath. You can still land badly though. So what you've got to do is learn to land well and get used to falling. Try bouldering with a friend or two who can act as spotters (sometimes advisable in any case even indoors). Also, practice controlled falls, starting half way up the wall and working upwards. It's also a good idea to watch experienced boulderers and how they control their falls.
You will find that most falls can actually be controlled. There will be a few wild swings off dynamic moves and awkward sideways or back first falls off steep moves but you can leave those types of problems until you've got more confidence and experience.
It's a good idea to hang out with people who are better and can give you tips on technique. Bouldering is ideal for that because people can show you moves and can also easily see what you're doing wrong. That's not so easy when you're half way up a route.
By the way, you say you don't mind a wee bit of an injury for the sake of a winter line. Bear in mind that, unless you're on a well protected mixed route, a fall in winter could easily result in a very nasty injury...
2
In be careful bouldering, last year a guy jumped off the top of a route and landed in front of me with the loudest crack I've ever heard. ...next thing he's screaming and I'm nearly puking because his shin bone is sticking out of his trousers and his foot is pointing the wrong way! Changed my view on it forever. Auto belay for me and when I do boulder I'm very careful. Not worth the risk in my books !
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In reply to Tricadam:
I have a similar problem.
We have a new bouldering wall near me which I really enjoy, but I am always fearful of making that last move if at my limit. But I have previously destroyed by ankle landing on the edge of a bouldering mat, and fracture my elbow last year falling awkwardly in a fully padded climbing gym.
There are some good videos on you tube on how to fall, especially when landing on your back or side.
Its definitely a skill worth practicing, but it is also sensible to be aware of the danger. It certainly isnt a totally safe environment.
I have a similar problem.
We have a new bouldering wall near me which I really enjoy, but I am always fearful of making that last move if at my limit. But I have previously destroyed by ankle landing on the edge of a bouldering mat, and fracture my elbow last year falling awkwardly in a fully padded climbing gym.
There are some good videos on you tube on how to fall, especially when landing on your back or side.
Its definitely a skill worth practicing, but it is also sensible to be aware of the danger. It certainly isnt a totally safe environment.
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In reply to Tricadam:
I generally avoid anything where I'm very likely to fall at the top of the wall as I've got a dodgy knee, and also because even without that it's very easy to break or badly sprain a limb or joint, which if you're 18 with no responsibilities is no big deal, but a major problem if you're middle-aged and need full mobility to earn a living. So, if I'm looking to get stronger, I usually work a section of one of the harder traverses (a couple of grades above what i can get clean) on the circuit board where the hard moves are low-down. For endurance, again on the circuit board, I pick a lower grade route avoiding anything with awkward fall-offable-if-pumped moves high up, and do laps on that. If there is a dodgy move high up, I might make something up to get around it. Also, with boulder problems, as you climb more you get a sense of what you can fall off reasonably safely, and what you can't, and you can always work a problem in sections to get confidence that each move is doable. So, there's plenty you can do to improve without continually falling off from the top.
I generally avoid anything where I'm very likely to fall at the top of the wall as I've got a dodgy knee, and also because even without that it's very easy to break or badly sprain a limb or joint, which if you're 18 with no responsibilities is no big deal, but a major problem if you're middle-aged and need full mobility to earn a living. So, if I'm looking to get stronger, I usually work a section of one of the harder traverses (a couple of grades above what i can get clean) on the circuit board where the hard moves are low-down. For endurance, again on the circuit board, I pick a lower grade route avoiding anything with awkward fall-offable-if-pumped moves high up, and do laps on that. If there is a dodgy move high up, I might make something up to get around it. Also, with boulder problems, as you climb more you get a sense of what you can fall off reasonably safely, and what you can't, and you can always work a problem in sections to get confidence that each move is doable. So, there's plenty you can do to improve without continually falling off from the top.
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In reply to Misha:
I disagree with your risk analysis. I think we naturally adapt to the apparent risk in the circumstances. I have witnessed proportionately far more accidents indoor bouldering than anywhere; way more than on busy trad or bouldering days at Stanage (most are things like ankle and wrist sprains but some breaks and some even nastier where people rotate and land head first). The rate in my experience seems to have increased as the mats have got better. I think The Ex-Engineer is spot on. I'd also support the advice Mike Lates offers... learn to climb down... a very useful transferable skill and it builds stamina and saves the knees in later life.
I disagree with your risk analysis. I think we naturally adapt to the apparent risk in the circumstances. I have witnessed proportionately far more accidents indoor bouldering than anywhere; way more than on busy trad or bouldering days at Stanage (most are things like ankle and wrist sprains but some breaks and some even nastier where people rotate and land head first). The rate in my experience seems to have increased as the mats have got better. I think The Ex-Engineer is spot on. I'd also support the advice Mike Lates offers... learn to climb down... a very useful transferable skill and it builds stamina and saves the knees in later life.
Post edited at 11:47
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In reply to Tricadam:
It seems like you are ahead of many other climbers. Just not in one discipline. Just keep trying, you'll get eventually better at it. Even if you climb easy stuff until you can't hold on any more, you will potentially fall off in a controlled way from higher and higher. I landed face and elbows first off the top of the problem and I got away, without any bruises or anything like that.
I can't boulder outside as I get far too scared while I have soloed some stuff, probably harder than the boulder problems I was scared on. I can scramble quite exposed stuff, but if I do it just before/after a long trad multi pitch, I get really scared. I had a c. 30m run out on a 16 pitch route in Dolomites this summer and I didn't feel scared at all. It was easy pitch (more like a scramble with UIAA III "crux") though. It's all in my head, I know what I am capable of and where I get a little bit over confident.
If you want to read some books, "9 out of 10" by Dave Macleod, some Andy Kirkpatrick's books or the new "Alone on the Wall" about Alex Honnold can help you identify the problems and solve them. I can't remember which Andy's book mentioned (paraphrasing) "some of the best climbers are too scared on approach scrambles", but his books are (IMHO) must to read anyway.
Just keep trying. That's that I like about climbing, there's always so much room for improvement that we can't even decide who's the best climber in the world.
It seems like you are ahead of many other climbers. Just not in one discipline. Just keep trying, you'll get eventually better at it. Even if you climb easy stuff until you can't hold on any more, you will potentially fall off in a controlled way from higher and higher. I landed face and elbows first off the top of the problem and I got away, without any bruises or anything like that.
I can't boulder outside as I get far too scared while I have soloed some stuff, probably harder than the boulder problems I was scared on. I can scramble quite exposed stuff, but if I do it just before/after a long trad multi pitch, I get really scared. I had a c. 30m run out on a 16 pitch route in Dolomites this summer and I didn't feel scared at all. It was easy pitch (more like a scramble with UIAA III "crux") though. It's all in my head, I know what I am capable of and where I get a little bit over confident.
If you want to read some books, "9 out of 10" by Dave Macleod, some Andy Kirkpatrick's books or the new "Alone on the Wall" about Alex Honnold can help you identify the problems and solve them. I can't remember which Andy's book mentioned (paraphrasing) "some of the best climbers are too scared on approach scrambles", but his books are (IMHO) must to read anyway.
Just keep trying. That's that I like about climbing, there's always so much room for improvement that we can't even decide who's the best climber in the world.
1
In reply to Tricadam:
I'm not scared of bouldering indoors as I'm rubbish and fall off all the moves.
So be more rubbish and fall off lots!
I'm not scared of bouldering indoors as I'm rubbish and fall off all the moves.
So be more rubbish and fall off lots!
1
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In reply to Tricadam:
It's not woossy to be cautious about falling anywhere. Always have half an eye on your potential landing spot.
Many people have a cavalier attitude at bouldering walls - both climbing and hanging around. Boulderers often assume i) people on the ground know you're up there and ii) they're going to get out of the way if you fall. Often neither are true.
Downclimbing is not only safer and good technique, but it improves your upwards confidence too - if you are confident you can downclimb something it is easier to commit to it.
It's not woossy to be cautious about falling anywhere. Always have half an eye on your potential landing spot.
Many people have a cavalier attitude at bouldering walls - both climbing and hanging around. Boulderers often assume i) people on the ground know you're up there and ii) they're going to get out of the way if you fall. Often neither are true.
Downclimbing is not only safer and good technique, but it improves your upwards confidence too - if you are confident you can downclimb something it is easier to commit to it.
1
In reply to david100:
I think your spot on about doing the lower grade circuits, sometimes your ego tells you to do hard problems, then leaves you deflated when you fail every time.
To the op :
Remember getting better is a personal journey,don't worry what Dave or terry can do, or why that chubby 50 year old climbs v12 when you can't. Before you start a problem really look at it and try to figure it out, if you fail it ask yourself why ? Watch other people climb it, watch there sequence,how close is there body to the wall,did they flag on a certain move,did they drop a knee. Technique is so much more important than strength, sure if your strong you might be able to make it to the top but you'll never feel in control,or enjoy it for that matter, I know this from personal experience. Good luck hope this helps
I think your spot on about doing the lower grade circuits, sometimes your ego tells you to do hard problems, then leaves you deflated when you fail every time.
To the op :
Remember getting better is a personal journey,don't worry what Dave or terry can do, or why that chubby 50 year old climbs v12 when you can't. Before you start a problem really look at it and try to figure it out, if you fail it ask yourself why ? Watch other people climb it, watch there sequence,how close is there body to the wall,did they flag on a certain move,did they drop a knee. Technique is so much more important than strength, sure if your strong you might be able to make it to the top but you'll never feel in control,or enjoy it for that matter, I know this from personal experience. Good luck hope this helps
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In reply to Tricadam:
No, you are not being weird.
And comments about nice soft pads are not helpful.
Get a good bouldering partner: someone you trust - preferably someone who is already experienced as a spotter. Knowing that they're watching your back will give you some confidence. Their job is not to catch you if you fall off, but to direct your fall, make sure you don't hit your head, etc.
Start by jumping off from a low height, then gradually increase the height.
Eventually with some practice and experience, you will get more confident. But there may still be situations when you'd rather not try certain moves... without a spotter / at that height / at all. Do not view that as a failure! Everyone has their limits - don't judge yourself against other people.
A winter of bouldering with my now husband had me confident to try the higher harder problems (still on the easier circuits, but hard by my standards). But then I got laid off with a dodgy elbow, and have never got back into it. A big part of that is that I lost the confidence I'd gained in trying harder moves at height, and as husband has been injured himself he hasn't been into bouldering so much.
But even if you don't actually boulder that hard, you will find it beneficial for routes in terms of technique.
Hope that helps!
No, you are not being weird.
And comments about nice soft pads are not helpful.
Get a good bouldering partner: someone you trust - preferably someone who is already experienced as a spotter. Knowing that they're watching your back will give you some confidence. Their job is not to catch you if you fall off, but to direct your fall, make sure you don't hit your head, etc.
Start by jumping off from a low height, then gradually increase the height.
Eventually with some practice and experience, you will get more confident. But there may still be situations when you'd rather not try certain moves... without a spotter / at that height / at all. Do not view that as a failure! Everyone has their limits - don't judge yourself against other people.
A winter of bouldering with my now husband had me confident to try the higher harder problems (still on the easier circuits, but hard by my standards). But then I got laid off with a dodgy elbow, and have never got back into it. A big part of that is that I lost the confidence I'd gained in trying harder moves at height, and as husband has been injured himself he hasn't been into bouldering so much.
But even if you don't actually boulder that hard, you will find it beneficial for routes in terms of technique.
Hope that helps!
1
In reply to Offwidth:
You might be right there, there could be more indoor than outdoor bouldering injuries but whether the injury rate per hour climbed is higher is another matter. Indoor bouldering tends to be more intensive for a start, I do more problems/attempts in two hours indoors than I would in a day outdoors (may be that's just me) and people go indoors more often (may be not in Sheffield!). Anyway, who knows, we don't have concrete data unfortunately. I agree trad probably has a lower injury rate though the potential for serious injuries is generally higher. Also agree re climbing down. That doesn't help with falling off when trying to do a move though... At the end of the day, like most climbing, it's "safe enough" if done safely and dangerous if it isn't.
You might be right there, there could be more indoor than outdoor bouldering injuries but whether the injury rate per hour climbed is higher is another matter. Indoor bouldering tends to be more intensive for a start, I do more problems/attempts in two hours indoors than I would in a day outdoors (may be that's just me) and people go indoors more often (may be not in Sheffield!). Anyway, who knows, we don't have concrete data unfortunately. I agree trad probably has a lower injury rate though the potential for serious injuries is generally higher. Also agree re climbing down. That doesn't help with falling off when trying to do a move though... At the end of the day, like most climbing, it's "safe enough" if done safely and dangerous if it isn't.
In reply to Tricadam:
I rarely climb to the top of an indoor bouldering wall if it's tenuous. I've been at the top of V6-7s with only a 5a move to finish and not done it as I don't see the point!
Wouldn't worry too much
I rarely climb to the top of an indoor bouldering wall if it's tenuous. I've been at the top of V6-7s with only a 5a move to finish and not done it as I don't see the point!
Wouldn't worry too much
Thanks everyone for your replies, pretty much all of which had something to offer! Really appreciate it!
(BTW should have said that I'm reasonably happy jumping off from the top of the wall - so long as it's in control, i.e. I'm going to land well.)
I think a significant part of my problem with bouldering has been that I'm seeing it as a means to an end rather than as something to be enjoyed for its own sake. I know that works for some folk, but I don't tend to be one of them, particularly if commitment/overcoming fear is involved. On my next visit I'm going to try to figure out ways of climbing on the boulders which I actually enjoy and then take it from there. If that road eventually leads to the top of harder problems, great. But if it leads somewhere else, that needs to be OK too! Definitely going to work more on my downclimbing too.
PS Don't worry, Misha, am as careful as I can be in winter and - by just being a lot better relative to my rock climbing - don't seem to fall off! Certainly have no intention of ever falling on a screw, particularly in Scotland!
Post edited at 22:58
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In reply to Tricadam:
Since you like winter, how about this. Go for steep routes (bouldering and leading) on largeish holds. That will train your core and big muscle groups, which is what you need for harder winter routes (as opposed to finger strength). It will still be a means to an end but you would be more motivated to train as it will be more winter specific. Also it's fun doing steep stuff.
Since you like winter, how about this. Go for steep routes (bouldering and leading) on largeish holds. That will train your core and big muscle groups, which is what you need for harder winter routes (as opposed to finger strength). It will still be a means to an end but you would be more motivated to train as it will be more winter specific. Also it's fun doing steep stuff.
In reply to Misha:
But he did say it was specifically to improve his rock climbing that made him start bouldering.
> Since you like winter, how about this. Go for steep routes (bouldering and leading) on largeish holds. That will train your core and big muscle groups, which is what you need for harder winter routes (as opposed to finger strength). It will still be a means to an end but you would be more motivated to train as it will be more winter specific. Also it's fun doing steep stuff.
But he did say it was specifically to improve his rock climbing that made him start bouldering.
In reply to DubyaJamesDubya and Misha:
You're actually both right! Doing more winter-relevant stuff will help with motivation, which'll hopefully transfer over into doing the fingery stuff. Have enjoyed learning about technique on overhanging routes lately.
You're actually both right! Doing more winter-relevant stuff will help with motivation, which'll hopefully transfer over into doing the fingery stuff. Have enjoyed learning about technique on overhanging routes lately.
In reply to Misha:
Your not making sense. Injury per hour would be even higher indoors if injury rates are higher as I suspect indoor sessions tend to be shorter. I think you mean injury rate per hard problem (even then I'm not sure, as much of the indoor volume is arguably part of the warm up and warm down you get walking in to the crag). The inexperienced tend to dominate the indoor fall injuries I've seen (ditto for indoor routes) but still complacency or bad luck catches the odd more experienced climbers.
Your not making sense. Injury per hour would be even higher indoors if injury rates are higher as I suspect indoor sessions tend to be shorter. I think you mean injury rate per hard problem (even then I'm not sure, as much of the indoor volume is arguably part of the warm up and warm down you get walking in to the crag). The inexperienced tend to dominate the indoor fall injuries I've seen (ditto for indoor routes) but still complacency or bad luck catches the odd more experienced climbers.
In reply to Offwidth:
You're right, I should have said injury per problem done/attempted. Might not be that much higher compared to outdoors but a lot more problems done means more injuries in absolute terms. You might be right though. At the end of the day, there are no stats available.
You're right, I should have said injury per problem done/attempted. Might not be that much higher compared to outdoors but a lot more problems done means more injuries in absolute terms. You might be right though. At the end of the day, there are no stats available.
In reply to Misha:
There is sampling evidence. The accident numbers I've noticed as a guidebook worker, longstanding student club official (dealing with an annual influx of large numbers of beginners for 20 odd years), a climbing internet addict and keen indoor boulderer are statistically significant.... modern indoor bouldering is risky for accidents, at least of the same order as the average outdoors, and is especially high risk for new climbers (cf indoors on ropes and outdoors: it must be better they roped climb and climb outdoors first if they are nervous of excess risk).
There is sampling evidence. The accident numbers I've noticed as a guidebook worker, longstanding student club official (dealing with an annual influx of large numbers of beginners for 20 odd years), a climbing internet addict and keen indoor boulderer are statistically significant.... modern indoor bouldering is risky for accidents, at least of the same order as the average outdoors, and is especially high risk for new climbers (cf indoors on ropes and outdoors: it must be better they roped climb and climb outdoors first if they are nervous of excess risk).
In reply to Tricadam:
I know this explanation may sound a bit daft, but one thing to try and remember is that, depending on your height, your eyes may be 1 3/4 meters higher from the mat than your feet. Given that it's your eyes which you use to gauge height, this will make you seem higher up than you are, given that your feet hit first. If you reach for the top of a 5m wall, you are only falling (assuming you land on your feet) around 2.5 meters (allowing for the height of your body and your arm length.
I did say it sounded daft.
I know this explanation may sound a bit daft, but one thing to try and remember is that, depending on your height, your eyes may be 1 3/4 meters higher from the mat than your feet. Given that it's your eyes which you use to gauge height, this will make you seem higher up than you are, given that your feet hit first. If you reach for the top of a 5m wall, you are only falling (assuming you land on your feet) around 2.5 meters (allowing for the height of your body and your arm length.
I did say it sounded daft.
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Winter Conditions
This Winter Conditions page gives a summary of what is being climbed at the moment, what is 'in' nick and what the prospects are...
23 Apr
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