UKC

Hi. I am looking at walking up snowdon. I don't have crampons and axes as I don't do winter climbing. At present would walking poles and slip over shoe spikes get me up it? I have been up about 10 times and in v. Bad weather but not snow. I know the steep section of miners track that gee upto Llanberis path and cairn.

In reply to tonanf:

Walk up the Llanberis track if you haven't got crampons. If you haven't done the steep bit of the miner's track in snow then you don't know how scary it can be. Fast track to winter competence is a course at Plas y Brenin.

In reply to tonanf:

Even the Llanberis path can be dangerous in icy conditions. http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=1653

Get the right kit, learn how to use it, and have a brilliant day out.

In reply to Snoweider:

Thanks for your replies. I think the steep section of miners track will probably be too steep it snow on. I am thinking if I get to the killer convex and I cant see the outer of the tin track, I will retreat. If I can see the route of the train track I will walk along it. Sound REASONABLE?

In reply to tonanf:

It depends when you plan to go?

If the snow hasn't consolidated (freeze, melt, freeze etc.,) and the temperature is similiar to now then the snow is going to be pretty soft.

Who knows what the weather will be like in a few days or weeks etc.,

Personally I would walk up. If you encounter unsafe snow slopes which you cannot walk up or over without slipping or making footprints in then I'd simply think about retreating. But why Snowdon? There's plenty more hills?

In reply to tonanf:

After seeing some people summitting the Ben Nevis last week, I guess you'll be alright. Most of those guys had no idea what they were doing and had no suitable equipment either (jeans being the most popular leg wear, obviously). Few of them said that they thought it's going to be a tourist path. They really appreciated some hot tea I made in the summit shelter.

However, I would advise against getting up the hill without the preparation. Things go wrong occasionally and you don't want to be that person who required a mountain rescue just because he/she was ill-prepared. If you really feel the need to go, bring someone who knows what they are doing and they would assist you in case you get in a trouble.

In reply to tonanf:

Tanks again. I am going on Monday. Snowdon because it is beautiful. I have lots of climbing experience so know all about not over committing on unsafe ground. I have thermal Base layer, air entrapping mid layer, outer later and w.p. shell. Good boots, gloves, hat, flask, head torch, spare torch, w.p rucksack, hivis ruck sack cover.
I have been up Glen coe in a proper whiteout so know to get off quick if any chance of that happening!

In reply to tonanf:

I find the Ranger path to be the least problem in snowy weather.

The zig-zags on miners/pig tracks tend to get very icy, especially when there has been slushy snow and freeze-thaw cycles like at the moment, so you can need crampons despite (or because of) the man made path.

The exposed section of the Llanberis path/railway just above Cloggy station slopes steeply both sides so if you get blown off course you may need an ice axe arrest although that's less likely on the new powdery snow that's there at the moment than on consolidated snow with a firm surface. Similarly with the next section - the notorious 'killer convex' above Clogwyn Coch.

The Ranger path is still not completely "safe", but the slopes are more even gradient and without major cliffs below.

In reply to tonanf:

I think your best bet is to buy a hill-walking ice axe and crampons. It would be a great investment, because winter hillwalking is great fun if you've got the right gear, but can be very scary and dangerous on hard névé /ice, even on quit a gentle slope, if you haven't.

In reply to tonanf:
Don't walk along the railway track, that is not the Llanberis Path. On the way down do not use the railway as the more visible option but continue straight for longer than you might think to be sure you are on the Llanberis Path.

In reply to mysterion:

Why not use the railway though? It's often the easier option with the nice flat cut out section past Clogwyn Coch. Lots of people do!

In reply to tonanf:


This is a non sequitur if ever I heard one. It is unfortunately a widespread misapprehension that walkers don't need these things. Perhaps a fear of looking over-equipped has something to do with it. As others have said, get the kit. Personally, I think you should get crampons as the first priority. I don't think an ice axe is really necessary for most winter walking. You won't slip if you have crampons so ice axe arrest is unlikely to be needed and walking poles are probably just as useful for most winter walking. If you do find yourself wanting to do more obviously hazardous stuff like Crib Goch, Sharp Edge, etc. then an ice axe will be necessary. I have no time for so-called walking axes as if the ground is steep enough to need an axe you'll find the shaft much too long to use easily. So if you want a walking stick, use one, not a walking axe. For most average sized people (below 6 ft) a 50 cm axe, which would be called a climbing axe by most people, is fine for these purposes, and when (if) you get into winter climbing then you won't have to throw it away and start again.

In reply to Ron Rees Davies:


Because that is where the danger is. An icy descending shelf cut into a steep slope over some cliffs - what could possibly go wrong.

In reply to tonanf:

People shouldn't be going above the snow line without axes and crampons. Temps are dropping.....

In reply to mysterion:

Yesssss..... But the Llanberis path just goes across the same slope above the same cliffs without the benefit of the cut-out. I don't really think there's much difference.

In reply to Ron Rees Davies:

No it doesn't, the Llanberis Path is nowhere near at that point.

http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=1653

This article shows how it is following the railway that is dangerous.

In reply to tonanf:
Above the snow line or on icy ground you need experience of winter walking to know when to put crampons on and when you would be ok without them. If you don't have that experience and don't have crampons in the first place, you could end up in a right pickle. Walking crampons and an axe aren't that expensive and will be a great investment which will open up winter walking for you (you'd also need the knowledge to use them, go with someone experienced or take a course).

In reply to tonanf:

would walking poles and slip over shoe spikes get me up it?

in snow ? no don't be silly and you have not said how you propose to get down?

keep safe and go prepared