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Following on from this thread
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=628274
In which I said:
"Cycling along, I passed a random cyclist who was pootling gently along at low speed minding their own business. I was probably doing twice the speed they were.
They showed no sign of speeding up/trying to get onto my tail or anything like that.
A bit further up the road I came to a halt at a red light (yes, I stop for them) at the front edge of the "Bike box" painted on the road.
A short while later, the aforementioned cyclist appeared at the junction, rode around me & came to a halt directly in front of me. When the lights went green, they set off gently on their way, so I had to ride round them again.
The concept of stopping behind me as they were:
a: second to arrive
b: clearly slower
had apparently never entered their mind."
It happened again this morning, at an even more unlikely spot. Previously it has happened at the type of box that goes the full width of the lane. Not this time.
Google street view of the place in question.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.9387788,-1.159857,3a,41.2y,264.05h,77.41t...
To clarify the view.
All 3 lanes are going the same way.
Left lane - traffic goes straight on, towards the white building
Centre lane - bikes go straight on, then immediately turn right between the dark car & white van. The cycle lane is no more than a metre wide.
Right lane - traffic turns right, in front of the dark car.
This morning, I was waiting at the front of the box (I was the only cyclist there) some random slow cyclist I'd cycled past a couple of minutes previously appeared at my right side, squeezed between me & the car in the right hand lane, came to a halt directly in front of me & pootled gently away when the lights turned green.
The mind boggles. It really does.
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=628274
In which I said:
"Cycling along, I passed a random cyclist who was pootling gently along at low speed minding their own business. I was probably doing twice the speed they were.
They showed no sign of speeding up/trying to get onto my tail or anything like that.
A bit further up the road I came to a halt at a red light (yes, I stop for them) at the front edge of the "Bike box" painted on the road.
A short while later, the aforementioned cyclist appeared at the junction, rode around me & came to a halt directly in front of me. When the lights went green, they set off gently on their way, so I had to ride round them again.
The concept of stopping behind me as they were:
a: second to arrive
b: clearly slower
had apparently never entered their mind."
It happened again this morning, at an even more unlikely spot. Previously it has happened at the type of box that goes the full width of the lane. Not this time.
Google street view of the place in question.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.9387788,-1.159857,3a,41.2y,264.05h,77.41t...
To clarify the view.
All 3 lanes are going the same way.
Left lane - traffic goes straight on, towards the white building
Centre lane - bikes go straight on, then immediately turn right between the dark car & white van. The cycle lane is no more than a metre wide.
Right lane - traffic turns right, in front of the dark car.
This morning, I was waiting at the front of the box (I was the only cyclist there) some random slow cyclist I'd cycled past a couple of minutes previously appeared at my right side, squeezed between me & the car in the right hand lane, came to a halt directly in front of me & pootled gently away when the lights turned green.
The mind boggles. It really does.
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In reply to Chris Harris:
Sounds like going ' fast', is not actually any faster than going 'slow' on that route.
Classic tortoise and the hare. ( most annoying I'm sure)
Sounds like going ' fast', is not actually any faster than going 'slow' on that route.
Classic tortoise and the hare. ( most annoying I'm sure)
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In reply to Chris Harris:
I'm sure its a quirk of Google maps, but looks very much like the nice Aston martin is jumping the lights (as yours is green!
I'm sure its a quirk of Google maps, but looks very much like the nice Aston martin is jumping the lights (as yours is green!
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In reply to Chris Harris:
It happened to me this morning too. I was on the verge of giving up this morning as the tally of incidents made it the worst ride in for a long time. I had:
- full on emergency stop to avoid someone turning right across my front-
- run off the road by a car that decided it was not going to give way at a traffic-calming narrowing (my right off way)
- left hook at c 24 mph. Fortunately I had enough space to turn left too.
- half left hook - nearly did and then thought better of it, just in time.
- punishment pass and pull in by another ******** Addison Lee cab
On the plus side, I worked out that I had enough room to get some little chemical warmers inside my overshoes and over the top of my toes. Toasty toes -
It happened to me this morning too. I was on the verge of giving up this morning as the tally of incidents made it the worst ride in for a long time. I had:
- full on emergency stop to avoid someone turning right across my front-
- run off the road by a car that decided it was not going to give way at a traffic-calming narrowing (my right off way)
- left hook at c 24 mph. Fortunately I had enough space to turn left too.
- half left hook - nearly did and then thought better of it, just in time.
- punishment pass and pull in by another ******** Addison Lee cab
On the plus side, I worked out that I had enough room to get some little chemical warmers inside my overshoes and over the top of my toes. Toasty toes -
Post edited at 09:37
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In reply to nniff:
Incidents like these seem to hunt in packs. I've a suspicion that as soon as something bollocks happens we, unconsciously, get more aggressive and create the conditions for the others that follow.
Blame the f*cking victim, I know, but we all ride like c*nts sometimes.
> It happened to me this morning too. I was on the verge of giving up this morning as the tally of incidents made it the worst ride in for a long time. I had:
Incidents like these seem to hunt in packs. I've a suspicion that as soon as something bollocks happens we, unconsciously, get more aggressive and create the conditions for the others that follow.
Blame the f*cking victim, I know, but we all ride like c*nts sometimes.
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In reply to Mike Highbury:
There might be something to do with body language and cues we give off which may affect how people drive around us when we're in traffic, but I sometimes think you just get days where everybody seems p*ssed off, too, that perhaps due to the air pressure or something, in the way that just before it rains people and animals can feel more on edge due to the change in pressure.
Whatever it is, I think different moods can sometimes be at large. When often cycling home through Sheffield a fair while ago, I'd sometimes cycle past a few irate drivers (at other drivers) in the space of five mins. a hot mid summer afternoon late in the week wasn't a good time to commute it could seem.
There might be something to do with body language and cues we give off which may affect how people drive around us when we're in traffic, but I sometimes think you just get days where everybody seems p*ssed off, too, that perhaps due to the air pressure or something, in the way that just before it rains people and animals can feel more on edge due to the change in pressure.
Whatever it is, I think different moods can sometimes be at large. When often cycling home through Sheffield a fair while ago, I'd sometimes cycle past a few irate drivers (at other drivers) in the space of five mins. a hot mid summer afternoon late in the week wasn't a good time to commute it could seem.
Post edited at 16:42
In reply to Chris Harris:
Not the same, but I had an interesting experience earlier this week in the "tortoise and hare" mould.
Riding along the A34 towards Brum from Shirley (I know, the glamour...) and spotted a bloke riding along the pavement to my left.
He was on his way home from work - crap Halfordy-looking bike, work clothes, hi-viz vest, no lights. Pootling along, and slowed right down when he came across pedestrians. I was on my single speed riding in traffic, stopping for red lights etc, and in parts unable to filter as the road's quite narrow and busy with parked cars.
And every time I stopped this bloke bimbled along, passed me and then carried on across the junction or whatever.
I reckon after about three miles he had not only kept up, but had actually got where he was going quicker than me.
So - best to ride on the pavement!!
Not the same, but I had an interesting experience earlier this week in the "tortoise and hare" mould.
Riding along the A34 towards Brum from Shirley (I know, the glamour...) and spotted a bloke riding along the pavement to my left.
He was on his way home from work - crap Halfordy-looking bike, work clothes, hi-viz vest, no lights. Pootling along, and slowed right down when he came across pedestrians. I was on my single speed riding in traffic, stopping for red lights etc, and in parts unable to filter as the road's quite narrow and busy with parked cars.
And every time I stopped this bloke bimbled along, passed me and then carried on across the junction or whatever.
I reckon after about three miles he had not only kept up, but had actually got where he was going quicker than me.
So - best to ride on the pavement!!
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In reply to Chris Harris:
next time stay behind him , wait until he stops at the light and then go past and stop in front of him
next time stay behind him , wait until he stops at the light and then go past and stop in front of him
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In reply to andy:
What does this bit of bike snobbery add to your point-of-view?
> He was on his way home from work - crap Halfordy-looking bike,
What does this bit of bike snobbery add to your point-of-view?
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In reply to Rampikino:
isnt the key in the final sentence " reckon after about three miles he had not only kept up, but had actually got where he was going quicker than me. "
I dont think he's being a bike snob, just saying "there I was, state of the art bike, giving it max on the pedals, made no difference whatsoever coz in city traffic I didnt get there any faster than the bloke on the bog standard bike taking his time"
isnt the key in the final sentence " reckon after about three miles he had not only kept up, but had actually got where he was going quicker than me. "
I dont think he's being a bike snob, just saying "there I was, state of the art bike, giving it max on the pedals, made no difference whatsoever coz in city traffic I didnt get there any faster than the bloke on the bog standard bike taking his time"
In reply to Rampikino:
It paints a picture - I know exactly the sort of cyclist he means. No snobbery involved. There are many other cycle-commuting types.
It paints a picture - I know exactly the sort of cyclist he means. No snobbery involved. There are many other cycle-commuting types.
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In reply to Rampikino:
I was on my shagged out single speed commuter - no bike snobbery at all - and certainly no suggestion I was going quickly - I don't go very fast cos I'm (a) fat and (b) riding in normal clothes so try not to get sweaty.
Folks who commute round Brum and Leeds will recognise the sort of bloke (don't seem to see them in London, but I only ride in the centre) - and a crap Carrera or whatever bikes are usually what they're on. And I think it's brilliant - exactly what Boardman is on about when he talks about cycling as an everyday means of transport.
I was just intrigued that it was arguably quicker to ride carefully along the pavement than to ride on the road.
I was on my shagged out single speed commuter - no bike snobbery at all - and certainly no suggestion I was going quickly - I don't go very fast cos I'm (a) fat and (b) riding in normal clothes so try not to get sweaty.
Folks who commute round Brum and Leeds will recognise the sort of bloke (don't seem to see them in London, but I only ride in the centre) - and a crap Carrera or whatever bikes are usually what they're on. And I think it's brilliant - exactly what Boardman is on about when he talks about cycling as an everyday means of transport.
I was just intrigued that it was arguably quicker to ride carefully along the pavement than to ride on the road.
In reply to Mike Highbury:
True. If I've just given someone the finger, I make sure to thank the next driver past for overtaking courteously
> Incidents like these seem to hunt in packs. I've a suspicion that as soon as something bollocks happens we, unconsciously, get more aggressive and create the conditions for the others that follow.
> Blame the f*cking victim, I know, but we all ride like c*nts sometimes.
True. If I've just given someone the finger, I make sure to thank the next driver past for overtaking courteously
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In reply to Chris Harris:
Could be he's not that confident in traffic, wants a buffer?
It can be infuriating having to wait for the first car to pass to then pull out and overtake again. These days at the wide cycle boxes, I tend to park myself somewhere right of centre so I've got plenty of space pulling away.
Could be he's not that confident in traffic, wants a buffer?
It can be infuriating having to wait for the first car to pass to then pull out and overtake again. These days at the wide cycle boxes, I tend to park myself somewhere right of centre so I've got plenty of space pulling away.
In reply to nniff:
I thought for a minute you must live in Edinburgh. Their idea of bike friendly is to stop the cycle lane some way short of a narrowing and position it just where there is a crumbling potholed drain to make absolutely sure you are forced out into the path of whatever lunatic decides to try and squeeze past.
> - run off the road by a car that decided it was not going to give way at a traffic-calming narrowing (my right off way)
I thought for a minute you must live in Edinburgh. Their idea of bike friendly is to stop the cycle lane some way short of a narrowing and position it just where there is a crumbling potholed drain to make absolutely sure you are forced out into the path of whatever lunatic decides to try and squeeze past.
In reply to Chris Harris:
There are just some odd people about. Try not to understand them.
I caught the train yesterday. The platform was practically deserted. A guy came and stood right in front of me between me and the edge of the platform.
I moved along a bit but he stayed where he was.
Someone mentioned shoaling.
I think something similar happens in empty car parks. The brain just pulls you to park near other cars, it's not a concious decision.
There are just some odd people about. Try not to understand them.
I caught the train yesterday. The platform was practically deserted. A guy came and stood right in front of me between me and the edge of the platform.
I moved along a bit but he stayed where he was.
Someone mentioned shoaling.
I think something similar happens in empty car parks. The brain just pulls you to park near other cars, it's not a concious decision.
In reply to gd303uk:
Yes, I have this apparently irrational fear of being run over.
> You actually stopped at a red light!
Yes, I have this apparently irrational fear of being run over.
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In reply to Chris Harris:
Crazy
As mentioned above this shoaling malarkey is quite common , after hearing that term for the first time, I looked it up,
There are some interesting blogs etc. out there.
http://www.citylab.com/navigator/2014/08/cyclists-lets-talk-about-shoaling/...
Crazy
As mentioned above this shoaling malarkey is quite common , after hearing that term for the first time, I looked it up,
There are some interesting blogs etc. out there.
http://www.citylab.com/navigator/2014/08/cyclists-lets-talk-about-shoaling/...
In reply to DancingOnRock:
Seems to be more a term aimed at the more competitive rider wanting to get a quick start from what I gather.
Same in camp sites. Acres to choose from - pitch up right next to me. And start snoring.
Some people have suggested that this is conscious, agenda-driven action, such as wanting a buffer, lack of confidence etc.
I genuinely don't think this is the case, and these people are simply in a world of their own, drifting along with their heads in the clouds, largely unaware of their own actions.
> Someone mentioned shoaling.
Seems to be more a term aimed at the more competitive rider wanting to get a quick start from what I gather.
> I think something similar happens in empty car parks. The brain just pulls you to park near other cars, it's not a concious decision.
Same in camp sites. Acres to choose from - pitch up right next to me. And start snoring.
Some people have suggested that this is conscious, agenda-driven action, such as wanting a buffer, lack of confidence etc.
I genuinely don't think this is the case, and these people are simply in a world of their own, drifting along with their heads in the clouds, largely unaware of their own actions.
In reply to Chris Harris:
Next time you feel it might happen, why not stop a bit in front of the line/box. Then if the other guy wants to park in front - he risks getting tw*tted by the traffic ; )
Next time you feel it might happen, why not stop a bit in front of the line/box. Then if the other guy wants to park in front - he risks getting tw*tted by the traffic ; )
Post edited at 14:28
In reply to Chris Harris:
The trouble is, it's not - it tends to be the slow crawler, behind whom you then get stuck as the motor traffic takes off. This morning I was stopped at the bike traffic lights on CS7 - the lane is two bikes wide and bounded by kerbs. I and one other were at the front, and as they changed and I started to move off, someone tries to roll through the micro-gap that isn't there. Never saw him again, but what was he thinking of?
Later on - at a cross roads near Liverpool Street, and I'm stopped on red, in primary position. A van and a cab are stranded across the junction, trying to turn right and coming from my left. The lights change and I move forwards a bit, sort of aiming for the gap between the two, who may or may not move. Then a tipper comes from my right (red lights don't count for tippers), the cab squeezes up a bit and I decide it's best to move left a bit and go around the back of the cab, this being the only remaining viable course. I then brush my left shoulder with a cyclist who is riding from behind me towards the diminishing gap (now moving to my right) which is also being closed down by the tipper. Apparently , I should ******* look. Yeah, right. He nearly got turned into a 'plasticine hand-roll' just up the road too.
> Seems to be more a term aimed at the more competitive rider wanting to get a quick start from what I gather.
The trouble is, it's not - it tends to be the slow crawler, behind whom you then get stuck as the motor traffic takes off. This morning I was stopped at the bike traffic lights on CS7 - the lane is two bikes wide and bounded by kerbs. I and one other were at the front, and as they changed and I started to move off, someone tries to roll through the micro-gap that isn't there. Never saw him again, but what was he thinking of?
Later on - at a cross roads near Liverpool Street, and I'm stopped on red, in primary position. A van and a cab are stranded across the junction, trying to turn right and coming from my left. The lights change and I move forwards a bit, sort of aiming for the gap between the two, who may or may not move. Then a tipper comes from my right (red lights don't count for tippers), the cab squeezes up a bit and I decide it's best to move left a bit and go around the back of the cab, this being the only remaining viable course. I then brush my left shoulder with a cyclist who is riding from behind me towards the diminishing gap (now moving to my right) which is also being closed down by the tipper. Apparently , I should ******* look. Yeah, right. He nearly got turned into a 'plasticine hand-roll' just up the road too.
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