UKC

Link to last week’s thread: http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=632761
For those wanting to find out more about training for climbing a number of physical training articles are linked here: http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=274502

The following training article by Alex Barrows gives an excellent breakdown on training the four main "energy systems" specific to climbing: http://alexbarrowsclimbing.blogspot.com.es/2014/02/training-for-sport-climb...

A new thread is posted each week on Sunday for anyone to jot down their previous week's activity. UKC fitclub is a rich community with posters sharing their goals, noting successes and failures and offering support to those struggling to maintain motivation.
Anyone interested in starting is very welcome to join, but to get the most of UKC fit club you should aim to post each week, every week, however little or much you have done. By making such a regular public record of your activities and by restating your goals every week this new habit will hopefully improve your training habits and drive you towards achieving your goals whatever the level of your chosen activity.

Psyche video of the week: if vimeo.com/152007678 doesn't want to make you go to the desert, what will?

Posters:
AJM
spenser - slowly grinding away at the roof problem - more progress this week? Hows the wrist this week?
Si dH - hows the shoulder going? When you say youre locking off on the good crimps, is that the middle row 4-finger pockets at the outer edges?
Emily - I've done Brean in the cold before and it just isn't fun! Sounds like a pretty good wall session on Sunday, progress on many fronts.
hms - hows the core going? If you can do 8 reps at +15kg on your fingerboard then you can probably up the weight a bit for true max efforts?
biscuit - I've had the work stresses this week, which is why my report is going to be so uninspiring. Sometimes you just have to roll with it - not everyone can use training as a way to work off stress, I certainly can't. Sounds like youre going well on circuits though?
The Ex-Engineer - that is a fantastic week! How was this one?
Nick Russell - those are definitely solid times! Definitely agree with your verdict on the wall - those are some solid performances this week.
James Moyle - Alps trip sorted?
flopsicle - beasted by the little one! And your Saturday & Sunday sessions sound immense - ticking multiple V6+ problems in a session is a strong performance!
Robin Brooke - start of a new plan. Big aerocap miles there. Like the BHAGs, some inspiring stuff there.
Joughton - sounds like everyone has had cold wall sessions this week!
Tyler - welcome back. Any more progress on the Moon board? 7A as a LTG on it?
mattrm - congratulations - thats been a big old job for you hasnt it!
Ian Bell - interesting feedback from the coach, I'd have gone for fast and accurate feet being key! We went to Orpierre, but didn't stay for very long so I don't have anything to recommend I'm afraid.
hokkyokusei - must have been good walking conditions the weekend. I'm not going to mention health in case I scare it off.
Dandan82 - good news on the climbing session. Any more progress this week?
stevemarkperry - that does look like a cool and varied week.
Dandelion - its taken my a half hour to get down to your post in the thread, and I'm nearly done from there as it becomes more chit-chat. I have had a lot of practice at it though - I've started the thread for several years cumulatively now. Is that an inversion you mention in your post?
TonyB - very productive weekend, nice job. Alicia is fun isn't it.
Humperdink - most of your days in there say you felt ill on them, and you still ran 56 miles! That can't be a bad effort by anyones standards
Just Tintin - nagnagnaggoalsgoalsgoals
alexm198 - another last minute job! Sounds like a good few days on the slopes...

Lurkers:
Ally Smith
cha1n

In reply to AJM:

HELP REQUEST:

I don't know if I'll have WiFi next weekend, so is someone else able to do the stats...

In reply to AJM:
Hi Andy, yes those are the holds I mean.
Shoulder not right yet but didn't stop anything earlier in the week and ive been resting since, booked a physio for Friday coming.
Will post properly later on.

I'll do the stats for a week.

Si

In reply to Si dH:


Cool thanks.

In reply to AJM:

Ps have a good time in Albàcarrin, and don't go too hard on the first day - always my mistake on a bouldering trip!

In reply to Si dH:

Cheers. Itll probably be lunchtime or early afternoon on day 1 by the time we start climbing (definitely more 3.5 days than 4) which hopefully will act as a natural restraint to going off too hard!

In reply to AJM:
Have a great trip Andy!

Quick request for advice from collective wisdom on here... planning to go sport climbing in Spain for a week in March (dates will depend on availability of flights and accommodation). Where is good?

I'm looking for mid 7s, Emily low-mid 6s (a strong preference against slabs). A good concentration of both on the same crag is obviously ideal, but not necessary; we can alternate days or come to some other arrangement.

In reply to Si dH:
Posting now as the rest of today will just be rest.

Goals:
- Maintain a weight of around 11 stone measured Sunday night
- Jan/Feb: Jerry's Traverse (Cratcliffe) and at least 3 other grit 7Bs. [so far T Crack and A Case of Mistaken Identity.]
March: Do Crazy Horse (7B) and either Magic Bus or La Barre Fixe (7B+) in Font. After Font, do Moffatrocity if it's dry, or Wright's Traverse (7B) if Moff is still wet.
April: Moffatrocity if not done in March, then Eastwood Traverse (7B+). Start doing some limestone or Churnet bouldering in the evenings again once the clocks change.
May/June/July: Do a few more Font 7Bs on limestone or sandstone, and do Arch Enemies (F7c+)
August: Continue bouldering (more limestone F7B/+s) and, if Arch Enemies went well, get on an F8a.
September: Do the F8a.
October: Once finished (for good or bad) with the F8a, try Paint it Black (Ft7C) at Blackwell Dale.
November/December: Finish off Paint it Black if it feels doable and stays dry for long enough. Then get on the grit, goals being a Ft7B+ and maybe try Tetris (Ft7C).

As per last week, due to a dodgy shoulder my plan for this week was just to rest and do core exercises unless I felt particularly psyched.

M: rest
T: felt psyched! Conditions looked perfect and it was set to rain from Wednesday, so I drove out for a lantern session on Flatworld after work. Felt really good on it and did the starting moves (crux) about 7-8 times. The first 5-6 of those I fell off trying to bring my left hand up on to the arete (which shouldn't be too hard - frustrating) then I worked out how to do it, but the next go as I tried to get my left foot high (from which point you just reach the top) my body blocked the light from the lantern and I couldn't see the foothold at all. Eventually I found it but at literally that moment the right hand side pull tore a big hole through my ring finger and I fell off with a big flapper. I taped up, had a rest, tried again and promptly tore a flapper in my index finger too. Bit gutted not to do it, but overall felt like a really positive evening - in those conditions, I felt quite solid on the crux of a problem that last year I was nowhere near. Much better than the previous session on Sunday.
W: rest
T: Core workout as follows: (1) 30 straight leg raises (legs together), (2) 30 seconds side plank on both sides, (3) 20 straight leg raises (legs wide apart), (4) 60 seconds plank with toes on a big gym ball, (5) 40 seconds bridge (upwards facing plank) with heels on a chair. So far with no rest. Then rest for 1-2 minutes and then repeat. Did 4 sets.
F: Core as above but only 3 sets (ran out of time)
S: rest. Over-eating fest for birthday meal out with parents but did at least do 9-10 miles walking to try and get rid of it.
S: Core as per Thursday again (4 sets).

Weight last Sunday night was 11st 2lbs.

Plan for the next 5 days is to continue growing skin back and resting my shoulder, just focussing on core exercises. I've booked a physio appointment to look at the shoulder on Friday evening. Unless that gives me really bad news or my skin is still too thin, I'll aim to get back on it outside next Sunday probably, and resume normal service from there.
I would be interested in peoples' thoughts on the core workout above. What muscles am I not working with those exercises? How does it compare to what you do? And is there an easy way to make side planks harder other than just holding for longer (these are the bits I definitely find easiest of the above)? Note that I need to avoid anything that is 'hanging' or otherwise puts stress on the shoulders. I also prefer to avoid press-up type positions for too long at once as my wrists are f*cked after doing too many pres-ups in my twenties...

Thanks,
Si

In reply to Si dH:

small thought re: side planks. 1 set on one side could include:
- hold for 30secs as normal,
- then immediately after continue to hold side plank and add 20 reps of free arm raised high then thread down and under the arm-pit of supporting arm (adds a twisting motion in core)
- then if you still want more, keep holding side plank and then add 10 hip dips whilst in side plank

In reply to Si dH:

Have you thought about getting some of those things you can put on the floor (or one of those camming pullup bars, which has the same thing) so that you can do press up style positions with your wrist straight and knuckles towards the floor rather than palms flat on the floor?

I found pikes with feet in a trx gives a decent workout. Or other way up, lying on floor in an L with feet above hips in a trx, then straighten so you have your torso off the ground (barring shoulders) and have your legs straight out

In reply to AJM:

Whats a trx?

In reply to robbiebrookie:

Quite like the twisting idea, will try that

In reply to Si dH:

https://www.trxtraining.com - although there are millions of less ridiculously priced alternatives out there. Or make one with some rope.

In reply to AJM:


Nice desert psyche video AJM - I've got to go to Utah one day soon.

Periodized training, week 2 of 16 (currently in endurance phase) Another good week, increased to 3 days of aero cap and 3 swims, and 1 strength/core, feeling a little lighter and fitter. Weight down from 77.6kg (mid-Dec) to 74.2kg. Also been trying to improve diet, less carb more veg, fruit, fish, nuts - chocolate is staying tho!

M: aero cap 3 sets of 25mins. 6a+/6b autobelay no touching the floor climb up&down on slight overhang. Third set felt hard today, good I stayed on overhang, it should feel hard. Also need to think about skin management…

T: outdoor swim 1.5km felt weary today but blue sky day!

W: aero cap 3 sets of 25mins. 6a+/6b autobelay no touching floor climb up&down. 2 sets on slight overhang, 1 on vertical, on latter stayed on harder route. Number of reps significantly higher as climbing really fast now - routes dialled. Last set felt hard again today.

Th: outdoor swim 1.8km felt good today and blue sky again + sun on my back!

F: aero cap 3 sets of 25mins. Christ it was cold to start with in the wells, got warm quick tho! 6a+/6b autobelay no touching floor climb up&down. All on slight overhang. Number of reps significantly higher as climbing fast. Felt good today all three sets feeling strong. Next week is third and final of the endurance phase, so need to push up the difficulty or intensity either grades or durations...probably won't thank myself come Monday...

S: strength & core work out 60mins. This is two super-sets of (arnold press squats with dumbbells, lunge twists, squat thrusts, push up drop set, sit-up twist set, pull-up set, swiss ball back-raises, tricep dips, swiss ball passes, robots then front plank, side plank rotations then static, balance on swiss ball, lock-off tucks).

Su: outdoor swim 1.8km took a while to get rhythm going today, felt good once settled (half way through).

Need to plan next week (last endurance week), and think ahead to strength phase starting thereafter. Strength phase will be 3 weeks, and will include hangboard repeaters, strength and core, and might keep swimming as active r&r.

STG:
Stick to 16 week periodized training plan
Consolidating indoor 7a and 7a+ indoor RP's during fun sessions
Get my Girlfriend recovered from her Achilles tendon injury asap! Airboot came off on 31/12, walking swimming and bi-weekly physio now, light jogging by end of Jan, get her into climbing shoes sometime in mid/late Feb.

MTG:
Lots of 7a & 7a+ RP outdoor in 2016
E2 & E3 HP's in 2016, including AS MANY AS POSS crack climbs (fingers and hands)
Long Euro road-trip starts in April (leave job, leave country, climb lots)

BHAG's
Some current ambitions for future epics, which are a way off in terms of ability, endurance, courage, fitness, but I'd love to get there one day.
La Fete des Nerfs, 300m, 7a+
Mescalito, Paroi Rouge, 250m, 7c
The Nose, 900m, 5.9 / C2
Freerider, 900m, 7c (probably following someone better than me!)

In reply to AJM:

STG (in the next month):
7b or 7b+ in El Chorro this week.
Keep weight moving downwards (nearly 68kg post-xmas, currently 64.5kg ish, aiming for 62kg by end Feb).
Maintain 3x wall sessions per week.
Sort out training plan.

MTG (this year):
Lost Decade, climb harder than 4+ in Font.
Finish some of the perma-projects: Realm of Chaos, Hall of Mirrors, Road Rage.
7c abroad if suitable trip happens.
Do some scrambling and mountain trad, ??? try the Cuillin Ridge.
Find a new job, learn to drive.

LTG:
Consolidate at 7c in UK, Fighting Torque, euro 8a.

This week:
Mon - Rest.
Tues - Rest.
Wedns - Rest.
Thurs - Boulder. Flashed a V4, did a few other problems. Wall busy, didn't stay long.
Fri - Rest.
Sat - Boulder. Productive session, loads done, got a bit carried away and wore skin to shreds. Good to be enjoying climbing, the last few months have been pretty rubbish.
Sun - Boulder. Tired from yesterday but got a few problems done. Took dog for a very long walk in hopes of wearing him out and getting a peaceful afternoon. Doesn't seem to have worked....

In reply to AJM:


Thanks. I think the one earlier in the week was really what helped me get back into it. The combination of 1) lots of routes that I knew I could do, 2) repeating them, and 3) jumping off a lot was a good confidence-builder. Not sure why immediately repeating a route helps so much with my attitude/fear, but it really does.

This week wasn't as fun - hampered mainly by a conference in Berlin.

Monday - nothing, blood donation
Tuesday - nothing, sat on some planes
Wednesday - hotel room core (mainly leg raises, planks, pressups, back hypers, twisty things that I call apple-picking but that might have been a name my swimming coach invented years ago). Also walked around Berlin for a couple of hours before sitting in the conference
Thursday - more hotel room core. Too much sitting in the conference
Friday - more hotel room core. More sitting, conference and plane
Saturday - running. 6.1km as: 10 min easy warmup; 10 min steady build from ~6:00/km pace to ~4:15/km pace; 15 min easy cool down
Sunday - climbing at UCR. Flashed a 6a+ and a 6b, and got a (probably overgraded) 6b+ second go. Definitely feeling closer to where I was at before leaving for America than I was a few weeks ago, which is good!

In reply to Curious Yellow:


I've got designs on 2 of those and plenty of ambitions neighbouring the third, so keep me posted if you want to get on them...

In reply to Si dH:

I normally group antagonist exercises in with 'core', so will do press ups, tricep curls, dips, etc. at the same time. A lot of these work your trunk muscles too, press ups being obviously quite similar to a plank. At the moment I quite like the overhead tricep curls: take a 10kg plate (in both hands) and start with it high above your head, then lower behind you, keeping your body straight rather than arching your back.


Lift the upper leg! So when you're on the left arm with and left leg, maintain the plank position but lift the right leg as high as you can to the side. I find this adds quite a lot to the difficulty.


My solution to this problem while I was having wrist problems this summer was to do press ups on fists. Part of the idea here was to strengthen the stabilising muscles around the wrist, but it also allowed me to go deeper into press ups, which is probably a good thing!

In reply to Si dH:

I keep meaning to ask... any reason for choosing Sunday night as your benchmark? I've been measuring my weight (quite obsessively) since late August, and find that first thing in the morning is more stable than evening. Also weekends tend to fluctuate a bit more - more likely I'll have a big meal with friends/pint or two of beer/etc. - but the effect of this is pretty short-lived so by the middle of the week it's smoothed out again.

I also keep meaning to do a bit more analysis on my data/put it online somewhere, but that stuff's all too similar to my real work...

In reply to Nick Russell:


I'm going to guess closest correlation with weekend climbing performance, but I'm just guessing.

STG - Easter
- V6/7 (7A/+) in Albarracin (not been yet), Bishop (not been yet) and at home (1x 7A). Try a local V8
- short trip 8a send (Mediterraneo (8a)?)
- local things to look at - Hall of Mirrors (7c), Nightmare Scenario (7c), maybe Fighting Torque (8a)
- get the regular weight logging back on track and manage the weight back down

MTG - 2016
- get on Infinite Gravity (8a+). Also try Fuel My Fire (8a+), The Cider Soak (8a), and some harder west coast 7s (Tennessee (7c), Saskatchewan Uranium Miner (7c) etc)
- maybe some onsighting if I can get a trip together
- get trad mojo back, get more E4s done, try to break into E5
- another adventure trip, back to wendenstock perhaps
- build on dws - swanage and Devon classics, push the boat out at lulworth.
- buy a house, do the Dragon Tour, other non climbing goals.

BHAG
- its been in the back of my mind for a while, and its a monstrous step from where I am now, but Tom Et Je Ris (8b+). Its probably even further away than 8a was when I started thinking about 8a, but you gotta try, right?
- single pitch E6, big adventure E5s and all the adventures that would bring (alps etc)

18/1-20/1 - nada
21/1 - wall. Felt strong, climbed a board project, some progress on other problems. Continuity
22/1 - friend visiting so nothing
23/1 - couple of hours walking round Swanage and Studland
24/1 - wall. Ticked second board project. Psyched! Did some continuity too but not a full set. Got a 7:3 still on my list to do later on.

Stressy start to the week so not much done. However, I did manage to keep weight stable which is good as usually I resort to chocolate when faced with stress - down another 0.5kg this week on the rolling average. I'm not going to go to Albarracin feather-lite, but a bit more discipline will see me slip back under 73kg, which given my current level of performance at >73kg is quite good will do me. Keep pushing it down over Feb and March and aim for Bishop crushage.....

Psyched with board project ticking. Both 2-3 session projects, a lot of it seems to come down to learning the knack particularly if throwing for things - throwing far enough to catch the hold but not too far that you cut and/or the swing is uncontrollable. And maybe resting makes me strong.....

In reply to Si dH:

Morning Camper,

Try doing the side planks with your elbow on a gym ball, that's a hoot. 30 or 40s each side should do it. The further your elbow is from your feet the harder it is and keeping your spare arm running down your side is tough too.

Love from,
Joyce,
XXXX

In reply to AJM:

Thanks for the thread AJM, more good wall sessions this week!

M - Rest day (blood donation)
T - 9km run (I think I was feeling the lack of blood...). Fingerboard, repeaters. Felt like I got the intensity spot on this time.
W - UCR with hms. Had a go on pink+black 7b, horrible slopers at the top. Three goes up, then failed on progressively easier routes, culminating in nearly falling off a 6b. Core.
T - Redpoint. Couldn't get on the mint 7b+, had a go at a yellow one next door instead. Big moves! Hopefully I'll get back there, either of those 7b+s could go, but I expect they'll be resetting that wall soon. Core.
F - Rest day
S - 10km run. Hard work, but felt like I got into it by the end.
S -UCR. Ticked cimpy yellow 7a, then the pink+black 7b! (just needed my foot lower on the crux). Got on the mint 7b, went second go, then flashed a mint 7a in the near-vertical bay. Feeling strong! Core.

STG - build some strength/fitness

14 climbing sessions by end of Jan (average 2 per week, indoor or out, routes or bouldering. Just keep doing some climbing!) 13/14

7 fingerboard sessions by end of Jan (average 1 per week) 6/7

Core set after every indoor climbing session 13/13, 100%

70km running by end of Jan (average 10km per week) Tick: 76/70

Weight below 66kg again by end of Jan. 65.7 this week. Let's see if it can stay around there...

MTG

spring: keep the pressure on the E4s. Still have to get on Central Wall (E4 6a), Star Wars (E4 5c), Mother Africa (E4 6a), Pacemaker (E5 6a), ...

summer/autumn sport trip: Ceuse or Frankenjura? Route objectives TBC when I actually plan something.

Sub-90 half marathon (Bristol half, September). Benchmark 10k (Bristol, May, would be a good bet).

LTG

varied E5 onsights

Snowdonia marathon I'll be up at midnight next New Year!

BHAG

The Long Hope Route

In reply to AJM:

Still not got anything concrete organised for the Alps but definitely got somewhere collecting more information.

MON - CYCLE - 16.5km, 360m ascent - a right palaver, having to fix a puncture before going out
TUES - CYCLE - 19.1km, 520m ascent - cold and roads were icing up
WED - Nothing
THURS - RUN - 8.5 km, 190m ascent
FRI - CYCLE to TCA and return (36km, 330m ascent) and BOULDER - did the entire black circuit as quickly as possible. Then did about half the blue circuit a little more leisurely.
SAT & SUN - Nothing

Weight - lost 3.5lb. Now down to 12st 8lb

Definitely feeling fitter as a result of both more exercise and losing the weight. Looking forward to North Wales next weekend for some mountains.

In reply to AJM: Thankfully it warmed up this week! Not an amazing week at all, but still managed to squeeze a couple of sessions in.

Mon - Thurs - too much stuff on, literally didn't have the time. Got my results though, passed not with particularly flying colours but not too bad.

Fri - Climb Newcastle WBS. Felt rubbish to start with, not sure if I was struggling to warm up or just wasnt in the zone. Made silly mistakes on three problems which should have been flashed but managed to rally at the end to score 256/300 so we'll see how I placed I a few days - definitely not 1st this time though ah well.

Sun - fun bouldering session. Worked through the 6c-7c circuit and got a decent number done, some stuff flashed but not much. Glad I enjoyed it though because psyche was feeling very low earlier in the week.

Cheers, Jake

In reply to AJM:
Cheers AJM!
Everyone seems super psyched at the moment, a lot of this 'training' malarkey going around...


Very good news indeed, and more progress this week too!

M: Cardio circuit 20 mins of strict 40 second cycles with no breaks, absolutely killer and shows how many sneaky little rests I use when i'm not on a timer.
T: Insta-lurgy
W: Insta-lurgy was suitably brief so went climbing, 12 routes up to 6a+ no issues!
T: Flexibility, trying to beat hell out of my calves
F: nothing
S: Climb 13 routes up to 6a, no issues!
S: Exercise ball core

Oh lordy, 4 proper sessions in one week?! Been a while since that happened, it's just nice to be able to do it!
Elbows feel better every time I climb, still nowhere near fixed but it's all going the right way at the moment. General daily tasks are becoming less and less of an issue too, along with the antagonist/cardio/other training which I can now confidently crack on with knowing it won't cause a problem.
The flexibility stuff is quite fun but ive still got a lot of work to do on my calves, they are mega mega tight, although I can now almost do a downward dog which I couldnt come close to last week.
More of the same this coming week, plus i'm going to do some research after Joyce's lengthy treatise on training methods, I've a lot I could be learning.

STG:
Touch my toes by the end of the week
2 more climbing sessions, 12+ routes up to 6a+

MTG:
I don't want to get ahead of myself...

In reply to Nick Russell:

I already do quite a few antagonists etc in a normal week, and this week im protecting my shoulders, so wouldn't want to combine them but appreciate the suggestion.

Re: Sunday night, there's nothing scientific about it, it's just important I find to measure it at a consistent time each week. There is always some fluctuation, but I don't think more on a Sunday than any other day for me. Doing it before bed rather than when getting up just felt more 'honest' to me when I started recording it - and definitely closer to my actual (fed) climbing weight than when i first get up. (I do weigh myself fairly obsessively throughout the week but only write it down once.)

Leg raises in side plank sounds good. Joyce, that gym ball idea is a good one, using it for front planks certainly makes them way harder.

In reply to Nick Russell:
Good effort by the way to motivate yourself to do a core session at the end of an indoor session... I would definitely struggle to do that!
(or maybe your indoor session isn't hard enough?! )

In reply to AJM:
Cheers for the thread AJM! It's appreciated.

" beasted by the little one! And your Saturday & Sunday sessions sound immense - ticking multiple V6+ "
Beasted again this week - little bogger!

Mon - 2 mile hilly run

Tues - 2 mile hilly run + cycle to work

Weds - 2 mile run, 2.5hrs climbing (completed my the f6b made harder by just feature for feet, started trying to work the f6c I got but with just features for feet), can't remember what else I did climbing on weds, just that I was knackered. 1 hr circuit training including 'Sally up, Sally down squats to kick off and Sally up Sally down leg raises (down one inch off the floor) to finish! OWWWWWW!!!!

Thurs - 2 mile hilly run, bike to work.

Fri - Bouldering at Depot. Did most of the blue circuit - not very high graded, can't remember exact but most are over hanging and that has my grade plummeting. Kept to what I wanted to do, careful attempts to route read, trying to reduce flappage at the top! Did 3 more comp problems but wasted some attempts because I'd got quite tired. Got my best score yet though!

Sat - 20 suspension trainer and did Sally up leg raises after. My new goal is to be able to do the whole thing in one go and in good form. Currently all style disappears at about 1.5 minutes! 1 hr climbing - easy going aside from 3 attempts at new project.

Sun - 30 climbing, got my 4th of the V6-11 (blacks) circuit. 45 mins of PIYO strength (abs... arghhhhhh.... eeeeep... owwww), 45 mins overhangs - ran out of steam, done!

**As a disclaimer, I can't get any of this circuit on the plain walls off corners, just succeeded on the feature wall and corners - gives me more opportunity to think round grunty moves. I think they just are easier on the feature wall. I am not getting V11s!**

So goals:

Roped F7a
Sally up Sally down leg raises - start to stop.

In reply to Nick Russell:


Siurana and its neighbours perhaps. It'll be rather hot in some places (Montsant has good steep low 6s, but will be rather warm, for example) but plenty of stuff around there to go at.

Or in France places like Chateauvert would work very well combining your grade ranges.

Chorro will be rather hot.

Chulilla lacks the low end 6s in serious quantity (or at least, the quality of them is no better than in many other areas).

I didn't go to many places for mixed grades in the Lleida guide but then Ali was injured then so we had less need to look. Collegats? Bound to be some.

Not really done much in Costa blanca.

In reply to AJM:

It's depressingly taken me approximately two years to finish. However, the bulk of the job took around a year. The finishing has taken an age as I'm lazy.

STG - Keep doing some climbing

Weight - 12st 12lbs

M - 25 routes at the rec
T - S - Rest
S - 100 dish tucks

Pretty lazy week really. Booked into the Rec again tomorrow. Aim to hit 30 routes this week. Then I'll start upping it to 30 6as (mostly routes at the 4+ to 5+ range, with the odd 6a thrown in)

Just to talk a bit more about DIY Club (we're not here for climbing are we?). A full list of the jobs done is:

Make 4 custom kitchen worktops from scratch
Make 5 kitchen cabinets (two were done by a mate who's a joiner)
Make two wall cabinets
Make one shelving unit for the alcove
Make plate rack
Paint whole room (twice, don't ask...)
Fit blinds
Fit (including drilling 6" holes for ducting) extractor fan (sparky did the electrical stuff tho)

At the same time, I also insulated and lined my workshop, laid a patio and built a deck and pergola. As well as a bunch of misc other jobs. So when you put it like that 2 years isn't so bad. Anyway, I'm dead happy it's done now.

In reply to AJM:


Thanks Andy, have a good trip to Albaracin. Alicia was fun. When I was lowering off it, a group came and spent awhile projecting it. It was really interesting to see that they had a completely different sequence through the crux. I had made quite a big deadpoint, whilst they had a nice sequence using intermediate holds. I was quite tempted to get back on it and try their beta. They also seemed to have discovered all sorts of rests. I decided to just climb quickly and only have a couple of shakes per arm. It was pretty good to see the different tactics.

This week has been busy with work, so since coming back from Chorro I've only had two sessions. It was scheduled as a rest week so all is well. Friday (double 7a laps) started well, but I finished really badly. I was training in the afternoon and had had fish and chips for lunch. I only eat greasy fish and chips once or twice a year, but was with colleagues over lunch. Silly though it sounds I don't think it was sufficient to maintain a hard session, and I will give more thought to what I eat before training next time! Today was routes at Awesome walls in Sheffield. 7a feels reasonably OK, that I stand a chance at onsighting but the 7b's feel really hard, harder than outside. I really enjoyed trying some today, so strange though it sounds climbing 7b on the steeper walls at awesome rock would be a good STG.

Goals for this week, same Monday, Tuesday sessions and progress on both. Start recording fingerboard work, and with the aim of recording progress.

In reply to Nick Russell:
A mix-up of Siurana and Margalef should fit the bill, with the options of doing some multi-pitch at Montserrat on the airport day if you have a late flight (i can email you a topo for a good looking 6b+ MP)

In reply to Ally Smith, AJM:

Thanks, we were just looking at the Siurana Margalef option online! It's good to have a recommendation Sure, send the topo over, the flight back is quite late.

In reply to Si dH:



It's even more impressive that at least half the time he manages to do it in the face of my whinging that I'm tiiired and hungryyyy and want to go home noooow!

In reply to Ally Smith:

Does anyone have a copy of the Tarragona climbs guidebook I could borrow to browse before going?

In reply to AJM: Not quite as good a week, but bagged a gem of a water ice V and got out yesterday and today despite the warm wet conditions.

M - teaching day and recce at Geal Charn (Drumochter). Repeated Knickerbocker Glory (III) in VG nick.
T - rest day
W - Back to tick The Hex Factor (V 4) @ Geal Charn (Drumochter)
T - Fingers Ridge (IV 5) @ Cairn Gorm - Stob Coire an t-Sneachda
F - SAIS Avalanche course
S - Good Friday Climb (III) and South Gully (III) @ Ben Nevis
S - Tower Ridge (IV 3) @ Ben Nevis

In reply to Nick Russell:

You cannot go wrong with Siurana, plenty of variety, plenty of accommodation, loads of different aspects and nice countryside. Easy drive from airport. Margalef is day trip-able but I've never found it much cop in the sixes.

In reply to AJM:

I think you must misunderstand the nature of this board and of my abilities

This week I've continued my quest for knackered elbows, I notice that with DIY is you get climbing like strains with none of the training benefit.
M: Boulder UK new set, usual shite
T: Rest
W: Moonboard, no progress
T: Sent off for a training plan, it's not my first by a long way but I hope by paying for one I may stick at it for more than a week
F: Forced rest
S: DIY and quick session on Moonboard, there may have been some incremental improvement but not enough that anyone but me would have noticed.
S: DIY and quick session at Depot.

Weight is staying on, keeping my fingers crossed whilst stuffing chocolate is no substitute for diet it seems

In reply to Nick Russell:

Yes. Got all sorts of guides for round there. Mail me and I can put something in the post or something like that.

In reply to AJM:

STG = 2x swimming and 2x climbing this week. 2x15 mins yoga.
MTG = 7a+ by end of Easter France trip (either France or UK)
LTG = 7b+ pyramid, 3x7a+, 2x7b, 1x7b+ in 2016
BHAG = 8a by 40

Previous STG = 2x swimming and 2x climbing this week. Elbow rehab. 3x15 min yoga in the week. Physio on Weds. 90% DONE – only 2x yoga but otherwise done.

Mon – 1,500m swim
Tues – WW climb. 8x6a & below. 2x6b+ - 1 OS. Continued with the silent feet and climbing slower. Seem to get a lot less out of breath on harder routes now, think it helps me keep breathing climbing a bit slower, and maybe cause I'm doing easy routes.
Wed – Physio. Pretty positive, elbows are doing OK. Some new exercises to do but also told I can probably do a bit more at the wall than I am at present.
Thurs – 1,500m swim. Quicker this time and it’s starting too not feel too far. Maybe more next time.
Sat - 15 mins yoga
Sun - 15 mins yoga. Hungover WW routes, 3x6b+, 2x6a, 2x6a+. Elbows continuing to improve.

Good to see lots of efforts on the thread and Dandan good to see you're coming through your (much worse) elbow trials as well.

Continued with the slow feet again. I think quick and accurate is the end goal, the slow bit is just temporary to try and make me think of the accurate a bit more.

In reply to AJM:

dont fancy going heavier than +15kg as I don't want to risk serious finger injury. As a proportion of my body weight it seemed quite substantial.

not the best week ever as I hurt my back jumping from the top of something last Sunday at TCA. Felt wrong at the time but wasn't until that night that I was woken by the pain. And the next night, and the next, and the next.

M - cycle commute. fingerboard straight repeaters 6/4/6/2, hoping that it would straighten the back out a bit.
T - cycle commute. stretching.
W - cycle commute. evening UCR session with Nick. Progress on the blobby mint 7b in that the top section went from uh? to ah! but still a long long way from a tick.
T - cycle commute, cycle on to UCR, bulk routes in 3s with Max a psychocoach. Plus 4 iterations of 45sec deadhang, 6b route. Felt tough.
F - 4+ miles urban walking. Tom core session. Swiss ball week2 core session. Lots of stretching.
S - 2 miles urban walking. Bloc circuits. Not as good as last week as I wasn't happy really going for stuff cos I didn't want to fall with the dodgy back. Mileage non the less.
S - fingerboard, warmup repeaters then working up to 15kg, then 6 10sec hangs with probably about a minute gap. Swiss ball core session week 2. Stretching.

In reply to AJM:

Thanks for doing the stats.


Last weekend was just great, very deep snow in places.

m: 2 hours drills, plyometrics, core & circuits
t: 10km off road run 6:35/km
w: rest
t: 10km off road run 6:25/km, new PR on my mate's favourite segment, very satisfying
f: boozing
s: hang over
s: Peco XC #4 about 7km at Golden Acre Park 5:51/km

Weight 82.9kg

I'm still definitely on the mend, though not back to my best.

In reply to hms:

But then you go and say you're doing 6x 10s hangs with +15kg and only a minute rest in between; the relatively short rest interval means you won't be recovering completely, and hence +15kg is probably no where near you max hang.

Your whippet physique = 55kg(?) + 15kg = 1.27x bodyweight
My "under-healthy"physique (As AJM described me) = 76kg + 42kg = 1.56x bodyweight

And I've witnessed you pull on some dirty little crimps at Trym Valley - so i think you can safely go above +15kg.

The key is to do it gradually!!

+10% per week is a good figure to be working with, e.g. 16.5kg this week, 18kg the week after, 20kg the week after that, 22kg, 24kg, 25.5kg, etc...

In a perfect world, you'd do a 6 week cycle, then take a couple of weeks off, before starting afresh (probably back down at 20kg odd) and gradually increasing the load again until your PB is at a level you can barely imagine now, like +30kg!

However, given that there's a CB trip just around the corner, stick with 15kg, and reduce the rest interval and make it into a little An-Pow exercise.

(Then do the progressive stuff in that generally damp March-May period before Cheddar/Anstey's/Shipwreck dry out)

f8a ain't gonna climb itself now, is it?

In reply to AJM:

Hi All,

Can anyone recommend antagonistic exercises for wrist and separately elbow.

I've been doing Shoulder antagonistic ex's now for a month and its been great helping with some irritation, so I'd like to broaden to cover other joints as preventative measure. thanks in advance

In reply to robbiebrookie:




Reverse wrist curls
Reverse bicep curl (i.e. a bicep curl with you hand facing upwards)

Elbows? Depends what bits sore when prodded - take a looks at this article http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=6156

In reply to robbiebrookie:

Looking after the muscles in the forearm should keep both wrists and elbows happy, although the elbows are also affected by the muscles in the upper arm, so it's worth looking at those too.
Upper Arm: If you are climbing regularly you should be giving your biceps plenty of exercise, so you need to make sure your triceps are strong to match. Dips, narrow grip press ups (also good for a bit of pectoral exercise), or bent over dumbbell extensions once or twice a week, 3 sets of a weight that you can do 10-12 reps of. I do them along with a bunch of other exercises across the body, its my general 'strength and conditioning' workout.

Forearm: Now I'm a bit sceptical of the best route here, as I'm reasonably sure that overdoing it with Lateral (tennis)/Medial (golfers) epicondyle elbow exercises with a Flexbar actually CAUSED an imbalance and gave me tennis elbow!
When you have an elbow issue, one exercise that is recommended is to put a weight on the end of a stick, hold the other end of the stick and hold it vertically with the weight at the top. Sit down, put your elbow on your thigh and rotate your wrist towards your other arm (for tennis elbow) or away from your other arm (for golfers elbow). Use the other arm to help raise the stick back to the starting position and repeat.
If you don't have an issue I guess you can do this eccentric phase and also the concentric phase (raising it back up to the starting position), do both versions for balance, but again I've only seen this exercise in reference to rehab and not prehab

A similar exercise for tennis elbow with less equipment is to straighten one arm in front of you, palm down and wrist cocked back (like iron man about to fire his palm weapon thing) and push the wrist down with the other hand. I'm not sure what the golfers equivalent of this one is, possibly just put your hand palm-up, but that might be difficult to push against without a dumbbell.

Some people swear by putting a thick elastic band around all five fingers and flexing them outwards, you can buy a product to do this called powerfingers which is a graded series of sticky rubber bands basically. This is a directly antagonistic movement to all the gripping you do when climbing and is often mentioned as a prehab exercise, some people do it after every session.

Another variation is to tie a cord to the centre of a short bar, put a weight on the end of the cord and then with both hands on the bar, twist your wrists alternately to wind the cord up. Do this with palms face up and face down to work medial and lateral. (This one is harder than it sounds!)

That's my two pence-worth, I can't personally swear by any of the methods listed but they are all advocated by some. I've omitted the Flexbar exercises as I personally feel a bit bitter towards them (!) but I'm sure its a useful tool when used correctly, it's like a static version of the cord winding exercise.
With prehab stuff I think the general consensus is little and often, or light and often, it would be pretty stupid getting an injury by pushing the prehab exercises too hard. (ahem)

In reply to Ally Smith:

I think dangling +42kg off myself would tear me in half!

I sort of assume that when I did Latido I was fairly light - I look slightly "less healthy" than I probably do now in the pics of me on it - but probably also significantly down on recruitment from where I'm at now given I had done 2 months of spanish jug hauling and no fingerboarding. I can't imagine I'd have been on more than 130%.

In reply to Dandan:
Thanks both. Plenty there, I'll look to add (a subset of) these to my shoulder Theraband routine as preventative work.

Plus I've learnt a new word - Prehab!

In reply to AJM:

90% body weight one handed hang is Tom's bench-mark for red-pointing f8a, but i guess you can get away with much less for a pure euro-stamina route like El Latido.

How that relates to a double handed hang of longer duration is a matter of some conjecture, but i'd happily stick with my hypothesis that hms (& you!) could up their finger strength, and that the weight added to double handed hang is a useful yard-stick to use.

In reply to Si dH:


<snip>


For the side planks, there are two variations we have used in my gym group. The first is to raise and lower your upper most leg in, as in a pair of scissors, the other is to slightly raise your upper leg and then bend your knee bringing your leg toward your chest. There's also high side planks with arm fully extended, but that means your weight is on your hand/wrist rather than your hand/forearm/elbow.

In reply to Ally Smith:

I was listening to The Training Beta podcast with Tom last night and I was astonish when he said that (and in fairness he was being very non specific) he thought 80% for the average V5 climber. I've not tried one arm hangs (anyone know where to get a big pulley from quick? I've seen some 50mm ones on eBay but they come from China so long delivery) but that's the equivalent of a two arm hang +40kg for someone of my weight (assuming I've got my maths correct, I'm 67kg) which seems crazy high

EDIT: isn't 8a the equivalent of V5 for Euro plodders anyway?

In reply to Ally Smith:

I'm all too horribly aware that 8a isn't going to climb itself. Hence the number of sessions I've been packing in over the last few weeks. Main thing I'm finding is that I get a feeling of lack of achievement though, esp as the indoor routes don't feel any easier than they ever did! Will try gently upping the weight a bit. And will persevere on the 7b mint which is very much my anti-style.

I'm looking forward to Armistice drying out (may?) so I can see how the dirty little crimps feel!

In reply to Ally Smith:

Well, Tom said I needed to be a few kilos up to get into his 8a+ range. I was still at 90% in September because I hadn't done much finger training in spring and summer given the Pulley injury.

So yes, but probably not by a massive amount.

My 19mm edge pure hang I've not measured, but the double pullup weight was probably about 125%-130%-ish and I can dangle a lot better than I can pull given my weedy biceps.

In reply to Ally Smith:

I assume that relates to forcing a half crimp rather than letting it turn intoma drag, and holding it for 10 seconds? And on an 18mm edge?

(Was reading the recent ukb thread discussion on benchmarks recently but there is lots of confusion over how you are allowed to hold things I think.)

In reply to Tyler:


13-14kg on a counterweight is quite a lot, given thats 20% of 67kg.


My solitary 8a had a V5-ish crux. You just need to be able to shake out on jugs for a bit before you get there.

In reply to Si dH:

5 seconds, choose a grip position and stick to it (i.e. if you start half crimp your time stops when it starts to flatten out into drag, not when you finally let go).

In reply to hms:


Do remember to rest.

Get on an assisted 1-arm hang and use the Randall benchmark, then you can be slightly more sure than all this internet pontificating about whether your fingers are up to it. If anyone has the data then he does and Ally has told you the benchmark for where you want to be.


If you've got 9/10 climbers, or want to borrow it, might be worth looking at the sections about whether sessions are training or performing. Lack of achievement when training should be fairly common, although I appreciate that the psychological aspect of managing that doesn't just go away when you get told so!

In reply to hms:

Don't forget to taper before we go away! Half sessions (Half volume, not half intensity) only for the 2 weeks before Costa Blanca.


Indoor routes are a really bad benchmark! Being able to lap Stockport 7b+ and RP 7c+ has been shown to correlate to 8c outdoor performance in one notable waif (7b laps/7c RP/8b outdoor for a less notable fatty...)

If UCR grades are comparable (I'm guessing they are, the arches section is about the same height/angle as the Mammut wall at Awful walls, and both centres have willy waving route setters) then 7a laps/7b RP indoors should be getting you up 8a outside!

Take heart; all is not lost!

In reply to AJM:

Yep it wasn't bad actually. Mostly bike this week but feeling good especially after seeing some progress on the Sunday trail ride.

STGs:
Scottish winter trip prep. Get on a rope a few times before hand.
BJJ 1-3x per week including 1x nogi.
Climbing 1-3 per week.
Complete first XC race of season, 28 Feb.
Black V3 in cave. -- Done!
Black 6a in cave.

M: Rest
T: 1hr turbo sweetspot intervals.
W: Rest
T: 45mins turbo race move intervals.
F: 4.5hr walk around Kinder Scout. Downfall in good standing today (blowing upwards).
S: Rest
S: 2hr MTB Cannock Chase. Feeling good, loads of PRs.

Plus an hour walking the dog most days, longer at the weekend.

In reply to Ally Smith:

Too true. On my only indoor routes session for the last few years, I failed to RP two different 7as within three goes apiece. A couple of months previously at St Leger, I had ticked multiple 7c+s within two goes (and did a soft 8a within a day) - and a few months before that did Zoolook and Soft Option - being quite good at resting doesn't seem to help indoors!

Not sure what my figures would be for all these "benchmarks for an 8a" climber, although suspect I would be severely lacking on nearly all of them. But, by way of comparison, on my Transgression board, I am currently doing 10s hangs, 3 mins apart, from a 14mm edge, with +20kg (my max duration for that hold and weight is around 13s).

I'm planning on switching to an 18mm edge for the next phase of the regime - just have to cobble together some means of supplementing my 20kg vest - but if I had to guess, I reckon around +25-30kg would be the most I could cope with for 13s on a bigger hold (and then use for repeated 10s hangs during my sessions).

In reply to AJM: hi, I am an absentee, just-life hectic but hanging on in there with training-
WK 561
3 bouldering sessions at TCA-slowly working through the F6a-6b+ circuit, been feeling very stiff, sat down doing a lot of writing and talking.
1 Fingerboard session-clear improvements in finger strength and general pull up power-what I do needs more thought though
1 run-sticking too canal at minute-5 miles.

Wk 562
Would be the same but whilst warming up, decided to use a heel hook to skip most the holds and tore something high up in my buttock-I sensibly decided to persist on the rational that.....well none really
So one good TCA session down to five problems two of which will probably go.
One circuits sessions at TCA, miserable and hard, not really surprising
One Bloc session, much higher, managed a couple of blues ((F6a and up a bit ?) extra height adds spice but think all the problems would be a grade easier of holds were cleaner.
One fingerboard-no run.

So managing to maintain gains if not progress much-there is some light at the end of the tunnel but...going to persist with fit club, may need advice and cheering on as well as finding other peoples posts, useful and inspiring.

Rich

In reply to AJM:

Morning Campers,

Enjoy the Albarracin, Mr M, it'll be ace!

Training Diary WC 18/01/16
Shed Walls Episode 4: A New Hope
In a shed, far far away (at the end of the garden) a rebel climber has started to use top secret training plan in the battle against the evil empire and its leader, Darth Gravity!
Monday – First day back at work after paternity leave - zzz.
Tuesday – Calibrating for max hangs based on a blend of Steve Maisch and Eva Lopez’s ideas and research. 3 grips for Max Strength fingerboard training. Will train at 80% of ‘max’ max hang so results are as follows: 4 finger half crimp (on 18mm (ish) edge) = body weight + 17.5kg; mid 2 finger drag on 18mm pocket = body weight - 7.5kg; 35&#730; sloper = body weight + 10kg.
Wednesday – Daddage.
Thursday – Aero-Pow on pink 6b+/6c circuit in Supershed: 40 mins of 1 on, 1 off. Hard on the shoulders etc. as big moves but didn’t feel really pumped so reduced the rests a little which helped – will tweak the circuit to make it pumpier! DanDan’s Core Workout Wk 4.2 – less hard. Did some more Steve Maisch bench marking from his ‘economics of climbing’ page: 11 pull ups (on deep BM2000 4 finger pockets) – benchmark = 20; 41 press ups – benchmark = 40; 3m 1s plank, benchmark = 2 mins. This tells me that being able to do more pull ups would be useful (but not to train just to do more but to be able to do more as my training makes me stronger), I’m alright for press ups so those kind of mantel type moves should be OK (need to improve mantelling technique then) and planking is above and beyond (should use my time to work on other aspects of my core strength e.g. getting feet to hands, lateral stuff e.g. windscreen wipers, L hangs and front levers (but keep some of DanDan’s stability exercises as they’re well useful).
Friday – Run: extended ‘Strava’ segment intervals. 8.3K in 36.15 at 4:19m/km overall. GAP 4:14m/km as 111m of ascent. Hard. Did 5 intervals of approx 0.5K to 1K each. First head torch free run of the year after 5PM – woo hoo!
Saturday – Strength session: max hangs on fingerboard based on calibration from earlier in the week. Weakest grip first: 2 finger open hand (18mm pocket) – hang 1 body weight (BW)– 7.5kg for full 10s (felt too easy so dropped assistance to 5kg for next 3 hangs. Hangs 2 to 4 all BW -5kg for 10s. Starting to struggle at end of each one. Grip 2: 35&#730; sloper: hang 1 BW +10kg for 10s. Again felt a touch easy so hangs 2 to 4 at BW +12.5kg. Hard on last one. Finally, grip 3: 4 finger half crimp on 18mm edge: hangs 1 to 3 at BW + 17.5kg for 10s. Hang 4 at BW+17.5kg for 7s. Following a nappy change, it was off to Supershed for an hour of limit bouldering on the 35&#730; panel. Each go was up to 6 or 7 moves on various holds with lots of body tension (poor feet) and cutting loose – 3 to 4 minute rests between goes – absolutely brilliant fun. Pretty wasted afterwards!
Sunday – Threshold Run (just): went for a 10K PB and missed by 20s. Still, felt solid at the end and pace was consistent throughout (although I eased off a touch on KMs 6 and 7). 10.1K in 40:32 (10K in 39:45) at 3:59m/km pace. GAP 3:56m/km as 82m of ascent. Could definitely feel Friday’s intervals in my legs still, should’ve gone steady! I went out for a stroll with the bambino in the afternoon and my legs were letting me know that they were there – will recover for a couple of days, methinks.
Short Term Goals
Be awesome bambino and good lady wife support crew. Other than that, slip in short bursts of climbing/running/ while we’re all asleep – hitting a rhythm here!
Up the difficulty on the ol’ Aero Pow intervals to 6c/6c+ - will do once the circuit is tweaked but on its way.
Slopers, slopers, slopers, heel hooks, heel to hand matches, getting feet up and onto hand holds following a cut loose on overhangs (and other weaknesses) – slopers done. Need to set/force/practise other move types.
Do more routes outside or inside to fix lack temporary lack of rope clipping ability - nope.
Keep up with the antagonistic stuff - nope. At least one fingerboard session a week – yup, 2. Core stuff: 3 core sessions – nope, 2.
Write a new training plan.
Medium Term Goals
Climb The Loop from the ‘horn’ (nope – more interested in ‘The Poop’ than ‘The Loop’ just now).
Climb Underhand (7B+) at Almscliff in February Half Term.
Implement and stick to the new training plan.
Weight = 69.7kg

Dandan, there's lots of ideas out there for how best to train including different methods for periodisation and then training the different energy systems, I found/find it all a bit confusing and conflicting. However, I was recently advised to treat it all as 'alternative' advice, rather than 'conflicting' advice and suddenly I felt empowered to pick the methods that felt like it would best suit my needs and situation which has sent my psyche through the roof and seems to be going well so far too (although I am only one week in!).

Robin, regarding your strength phase of what which you're getting going on. Something that I realised tonight is that ample recovery time is really important. After a max hang session last night (and because you don't get pumped, you don't really feel like you've done much, you just couldn't hold on at the end), tonight I tried to do some 'strength/limit' bouldering in Supershed and was absolutely nowhere as my forearms were still recovering from last night. I switched to doing some endurance circuits (Aero Pow 1 on, 1 off) and got a quality 40 mins in. I guess what I'm saying is that I've found that, even though it doesn't feel like I've done much, I've given it the beans and need an easier follow up session or a proper rest to maximise strength gains.

Love from,
Joyce,
XXXX

In reply to AJM:

I didn't manage to make any progress on the roof problem this week as I ended up having several social engagements, it was a really good week in general but crap training wise. I managed to cruise through a heel hook traverse along the lip of a roof which I'd been trying for a couple of weeks first go of the session though so pleased with that. I'm doing a workshop skills course at the minute and am having to do quite a bit of work outside it so I need to organise myself better this week.
Monday: Climbing unit, mix of bouldering and physio for 3 hours
Tuesday-Friday: Cycling to work and physio
Saturday: 1200m breast stroke
Sunday: Drove to stanage, did Grotto Slab and The Christiana Swing (both piss wet through, had to aid the 4b move on the latter as I didn't feel confident in the friction) First time doing trad since I broke my ankle, I think it's going to take me a while to really get my head back although I think most of my discomfort was due to the present of big old ledges to prang my ankle on if I slid off the routes!

Next week:
Monday: Wall after work
Tuesday: Swimming before work
Wednesday: Swimming before work
Thursday: Physio
Friday: Swimming
Saturday: Bouldering in Yorkshire somewhere if the weather's dry
Sunday: Maybe bouldering at the unit if I leave Newcastle early enough (depends how wild my friend's party gets really!)

Short Term Goal (Next 2 months): Complete 2 roof projects at the climbing unit, Lead VS onsight again (this is absolutely at the whim of the weather), climb font 6B outdoors again (again weather), continue recovery
Medium Term Goal (Next 6 months): Lead E2 onsight again (I need to be hitting the circuit board for this probably as fitness is rubbish right now)
Long Term Goal (9 Months time): Lead E4 (Head Point), have a fully functional ankle with no signs of injury (seems achievable, will be approximately 1 year after the original incident, this seems to be consistent with various things I've read in terms of times to complete recovery)
Longer Term Goal (12 months time): Lead E4 onsight

My goals have shifted back somewhat due to realising that my recovery is not going quite as quickly as I had hoped. I've been a bit more disciplined with my training this week in terms of organising myself.

In reply to Joyce:





+1; 100% agree with both these pieces of advice. Find something that works for you, (try really hard every session), then rest enough.

In reply to AJM:

Suffering from a serious psyche deficit but things starting to pick up. Seeing what other people are getting up to on Fit Club is inspiring me to pull my finger out, so to speak. In the last few days my hand seems to have improved a fair bit, after initially being worse since the operation than it was before. Some highlights from the last couple of weeks -

Sat 16th. Walked into the Triple Buttresses of Beinn Eighe. Always spectacular. Resisted the temptation to solo something and just took a few photos and walked out. (https://www.instagram.com/p/BAm0cpztMxo/?taken-by=planetmarshall)
Sun 17th. First Ski lesson, at Cairngorm Mountain. Progressed to snowplough turns and traversing, and went down a few green slopes on my own. Long way from skiing into routes in the Alps next Winter but you have to start somewhere. Booked myself a weekend in Lillehammer in Feb for more lessons and a bit more practice.
Last week Miscellaneous hand rehab. Tried some isometric axe hangs which don't cause me too much trouble.
Sun 24th. Routes at AW Sheffield. Just trying the hand out. Feel as weak as a non-climbing kitten.

In reply to AJM:
I've had a glance at Barrows' PDF and has anyone that's followed it found that the two base phases (16 weeks total) contain too much strength work and that they end up getting injured?

I've recently decided to drop the level of structured training that I do but I think I could manage the Barrows one as it contains so much strength work, so I can essentially just go bouldering loads and do a little AnCap for 16 weeks. Sounds good.

Thanks for any info/opinions.

In reply to cha1n:

Barrows' plan is an adaption of the exact philosophy Tom uses. To some extent any excess of strength training in it reflects how weak he is.

Toms training plan is an adaption of Toms training philosophy to you.

Convincing yourself that you're training in a structured way by finding a plan which allows you to spend most of your time having fun, addressing your strengths and ignoring what Ally seems to suggest are gaping weaknesses is kidding yourself. There isn't a magic bullet of strength training that will somehow make you fitter.

If you want to just go to the wall and go bouldering then that's fine but make sure you recognise that's what you're doing!

In reply to AJM:
Cheers for the feedback Andy.

I was planning to mainly boulder in styles that I'm not very good at (basic style - no trickery available) as I find it much easier to get motivated for bouldering (as opposed to fingerboarding), even if it isn't my style. So definitely planning to attack my weaknesses on that front.

In terms of fitness, I'm not overly sure how to go about getting better at that but Barrows seems to advocate mainly AnCap for the base phases. Are you saying that following the structure he suggests in his document won't help my endurance because I need to do more of something else because of my specific weaknesses?

I think that so long as I get to have a fairly social set of sessions doing some bouldering, I could deal with a few sessions of AnCap dictated by a stop watch. I'm not stopping training with Tom because I don't approve of his methodology, I just can't be assed/don't have the lifestyle to follow such a structured program and I'm of the opinion that if I'm not going to follow it at least 90% of the time, then there's no point doing it.

In reply to cha1n:

Alex advocates An-cap for the base-phase for a climber that already has well balanced energy systems, but wants to progress to the next level.

You blatantly don't have balanced energy systems if you're climbing V9 and getting burnt off by nuubies on the circuit board.

Ignoring the aerobic work will only result in you getting even more imbalanced.


This is fine (and i've made a similar decision, for different reasons recently) just accept that you're limiting the progress you'll make by ignoring your weaknesses, and in turn, limiting the type of routes you can get on to short bouldery routes. (4-door will still benefit from some aerobic capacity work!)

These type of routes also the kind of routes that are likely to cause you further finger injuries; just saying....

In reply to cha1n:
It's been a while since I read it but doesn't he also have 8 weeks of aerobic stuff in there.

Ally's point about it being for someone already in balance is a sound one.

This:

Is working weaknesses if you want to boulder; its working a lesser strength if you want to be a route climber

In reply to Ally Smith:

I definitely don't have a balanced energy system! What's the best route to go about doing that? My current plan was to make sure I do aerocap a few times a week (warm-ups/downs) and carry on doing say 2 strength (bouldering), 2 AnCap (long boulders/mini circuits) per week and then leave the *Pow stuff until closer to the routes are in condition.

I'd like to be fit enough for 25m (max) UK Lime and I can deal with being bad at euro lime as I'll be climbing on it so rarely, even if it is good fun!

Regarding injuries, my problems in the past have been mainly caused by fully crimping (with thumb) every hold I grab. I'm now very strict about my grip and would rather fail but stick to half-crimped than succeed by wrapping the thumb over. The only reason I got injured again recently was because I went from not crimping (even half-crimp) for 9 months to sieging a crimpy UK 8a! I'm confident that I can avoid injuries in the future by mixing up hold types and climbing styles a bit.

In reply to cha1n:


Lots and lots of aerocap is my guess. Youve got a massive hole where your aerobic energy systen should be, from the sounds of it, and the way to fill that is to do a lot of aerobic training. Mixture of the low end continuity style stuff and the high end 1:1 or 1:2 sorts of things.

In reply to AJM:

Cheers Andy, I think I managed to be sensible and keep my fitness level without making things worse....

M: Easy 40mins 5/6M
Tu: still not great and had loads of traveling/ work so didn't manage to get anything done
W: pm - 54:51 easy, 7/8M felt really tired and still got cough/cold -bah!
Th: pm - 10/11M in 68:25, felt better, going ok
F: am 4/5M to work in 29:05, pm = 4/5M home in 29:55 then 3 hours driving
Sa: am Road session (first in a while!) 3 x (3min hard, 60seconds jog, 6min hard), 2mins jog between sets. Then 5min jog followed by 5 x 30seconds with 90seconds jog recovery. Did it but it felt tough 11/12M total. pm - 4/5M easy in 32mins, quads and hamstrings sore from first session in a while. Another 4 hrs in the car!
Su: 3 hours in the car home then 12/13M in 1:35:20 - felt tired from all the driving.

Total : 60M another ok total considering still not 100%. At least it seems to just be a cold/cough now which is encouraging. Session on Sat was ok but everything a bit sore after it. Hopefully thats because I haven't done a session in 10 days rather than I'm coming down with something! Next Saturday is the South of England champs so hoping I'm fully fit by Saturday!

In reply to AJM:

Hey AJM

Posting a little earlier this week!

Rubbish week last week as I only got back from skiing early on Tuesday morning and left for Stockholm on Friday night.

M: 6hrs skiing. More reds, wanted to try a black but didn't have time in the end
T,W,T,F,S,S: Nuttin. Walked like 25km over the weekend in Stockholm, that'll have to do!

Slowly getting back on the wagon this week. Only got back from Sweden yesterday morning.

STG (this week): Climb Njupeskar (technically this is ticked already haha, did it on Monday), 1 workout, 1 run, go to Scotland if the weather looks good this weekend.

In reply to AJM:

Cheers Andy. May have a solution for making AeroCap entertaining. Easy trad. Seems like all the wads I know spent several years easy plodding on trad when they started out.

In reply to Ally Smith:


Smashed some PBs for the double pull-ups this evening.

First session of these post Chulilla I was pulling 94.2 total weight (most of that was blubber).
This evening I topped out with a double pullup at total weight 100.2kg. Boom! Less of your weak fingers nonsense!

According to Fit Club the first session was +18.5kg whilst tonights was at +26.7kg so conclusive proof of blubber reduction as well.

Progress is a wonderful thing. I just wish I was set up to do the assisted one-arm hangs on this edge to track progress on the Randall Benchmark too

Got a few more of these before Sella and Bishop so have to keep on tracking it. Adding the extra weight is definitely going to require a harness rather than a dumbbell soon.

In reply to AJM:

Psyching up to post. Just to warn you all that significant whining and wallowing to follow for several weeks. I've broken my ankle pinging off a problem while trying to protect my injured finger. I was due to go skiing in Colorado in 2 weeks...here's hoping the fracture clinic gives me a special flying boot?!

So f***ing stupid.
Aaaaaaaargh.

In reply to Just Tintin:

Nightmare! I hope the recovery is brief, if it's any help, Mrs Dandan turned her ankle in Font and it took a good few months before it was right again, the doctor said she would have been better off breaking it, it would have fixed faster...

In reply to AJM:

Have a good trip to Alba - sorry i'm not joining you - i'm still waiting for the US scan on the mangled shoulder.

The data shows a good increase in finger strength; just don't pop a tendon bouldering in Alba!

P.S. I still haven't sorted a spreadsheet for who owes who what for the Autumn trip to Chulilla - hms is probably the most out of pocket for your flight....

In reply to Ally Smith:

Cheers. I intend to dangle under roofs on jugs wherever possible - I'm not very good at roof climbing but I do find it fun.

Yes I had assumed that had been pushed into the long grass and was just going to pay hms next weekend...

Hope you see progress with the shoulder diagnosis soon.

In reply to Just Tintin:
That's shite, hope it mends quickly and well

In reply to AJM:

OK, so I had a dabble with AnCap yesterday. Did about 15 hardish moves and was suitably powered out, rested for roughly twice the climbing time, jumped back on and could only manage 9 moves before I was powered out again. What does one do in this situation? Pick an easier circuit, only concern is that I don't get powered out the first time around if I make it too easy? I don't really want to mess with the rest times too much as that's meant to be the important factor so I'm told.

I suppose the actual question is at what point are you meant to get hideously powered out? First time around, every time around? I worry that if it's the first time around that I won't have much chance of making it all the way around the next time I try it.

Thanks for any info.

In reply to cha1n:

Opinions differ. I've just started AnCap. My coach has prescribed 10 move problems. Repeat 4 times with 2x climbing time rest in between. That's one set. Don't mess with rest times, tinker with the difficulty of the problem. Work up to completing 4 sets with ten mins rest inbetween. This week i failed on set 4 rep 2, then again on rep 3 and stopped there. So just about right. So in short you should be getting powered out after a few reps/sets not after your first go.

In reply to Just Tintin:

That's just bad luck, whilst trying to do the sensible thing.

Best wishes for a speedy short term and long term recovery

In reply to biscuit:

Thanks for the info, looks like you found the perfect circuit to do it on! Seems like I'm going to have to find a really easy circuit to train ancap on then *sobs*.

In reply to AJM:

Well it was another week of lots of life stuff. I can honestly say i've never been this busy in my entire life. Not a bad week though.

I got an offer from Manchester Met for Physio starting in Sept. The plan is coming together. Still got a few others to hear from and my no 1 choice to interview.

Had first YCS with the kids i coach and they smashed it. They all had a great day, whether they won or not, and they know that doesn't matter as long as they tried their best. But i have to boast somewhere they won't see that out of 11 categories we won 4 and 11 out of 12 were on the podium

Had a full body MOT at a sports physio on Monday. My sore shoulder is a neck referall thing we'll sort out next month. He was much more interested in my lower body. To summarise my functional control of everything below my chest is pants. Really pants. Like at significant risk of injury pants. I have no core - i just use my hip flexors, lower back and hamstrings. When isolating parts of the core i failed miserably. I can hold planks etc for ages and can one leg front lever at the drop of a hat, never would have though it was weak. On the plus side i've got a really strong lower back and hamstrings

Biggest issue was my dead glutes. Both sides but left much worse. Hardly anything firing. That's why The Fox spotted i was reluctant to lead with my left foot on hard moves. John Kettle had also spotted a core engagement issue and isolated it to my glutes, clever guy!

So exercises to do and stop doing rings/core/fingerboard work until it's sorted. Back for assessment in middle Feb. On the plus side this could really sort out some long term pain (like 15 years of left hip pain) and give me a 'freebie' boost to my climbing movement.

Fingerboard X 1 - cancelled
Aero cap X 2 - 1 done, other cancelled due to setting so tried out An Cap session ready for next week.
Fun session x 1 probably steep bouldering - NOT DONE
Shoulder physio X 7 - cancelled, shoulders are fine
2 X rings sessions - cancelled
Easy core X 7 - cancelled
Physio x5 - 4 done + assessment
Lose 1 lb and .5% BF - DONE ish 154 and 19.6% last week. 153.9 and 18.9% this week. Happy to lose fat. I don't feel heavy at 5ft8in and 154lbs so dropping fat is good.

STG's

Complete 2 x AnCap
Fun session x1 - routes now i think but it won't happen this week. Too much college work to catch up on
Physio x5
Lose 1lb and .5% fat

I'm not setting indoor route targets as its training not performance and while I'm on aero cap it may get worse.

Bringing in an cap in Feb then an pow in March for a small first cycle before Easter.

Mtg

Chulilla at Easter - 7a+/b on sight. Re-assess where I'm at then before assembling next training cycle to peak end of summer. 12% bf or lower

In reply to cha1n:

I'm on a steep 10 move V4 if that helps. I've actually changed the top to avoid a match on a too big hold and add two smaller holds and an extra move instead. It's not tweaky, is steep and about right. I think as you'll be working hard and possibly slapping for stuff the not tweaky is the best approach.

Just make one up that works for you.

AFAIK improvements will be rapid so i only expect to be on that problem for a couple of sessions before i need to adapt/change it.

In reply to biscuit:

Cheers, I think I have to change the intensity to suit my poor endurance. I was just doing the first half of a 7c circuit, so the moves weren't particularly hard anyway.

I quite like the idea of making one up though because you can vary the hold types, so you're not following a line of crimps! Plus, there's always people waiting to get on the circuit board which messes up the rest times. Training is awkward!

In reply to Just Tintin:
Nooooo. Hope you get well soon. Two of my mates did the same recently. The recovery takes a while sadly.

In reply to cha1n:

Think bouldering rather than circuits i think. The idea is to get powered out, not pumped out. I was feeling good but 'empty' when i started failing. No pump (due to the decent rest times i guess) just not able to make the moves as ATP based energy stores had been depleted. I was putting max effort in, just nothing left to give.

In reply to cha1n:

From what I recall Alex told me failure on ~25% of reps is about right.

Tom had me on 3 blocks of 4 with about 5 min rests between blocks and I think I used to fail on a few out of 4, 7, 8, 11, 12 and feel like that was about right.

Certainly failing on rep 2 feels too hard. I don't really know on what grade I'm doing it because there are no grades at the wall but when I've done it on specified problems of say long V4-5 at a guess which seems in line with biscuits experience.

In reply to mattrm:


+1 from me. Fingers crossed for speedy recovery

In reply to cha1n:

Bear in mind that 1:2 - 1:4 (varying difficulty to suit) should all be ancappy rest intervals although I'd suggest the biggest crossover to aerobic stuff which is your primary weakness is probably adjusting your difficulty down a bit to hit the 1:2 end of the spectrun rather than increasing the rest intervals to bring it nearer to pure strength work.

In reply to AJM:

Cheers I'll have a tinker with it. Looking at my session sheet, Tom recommended a problem 'slightly harder than your flash level' which I never got on with as I've flashed Font 7B! Though more regularly I'd flash in the upto 7A range.

I'm going to start off with something really easy and work my way up! If you're doing it at V4-5, i'll probably have to go much lower than that with my level of endurance!

In reply to biscuit:

Nice one on the offer!


Abs and the ilk are basically tiny muscles - most of "core" in terms of the climbing functionality you rely on it for is basically what you mention afaik?! Lower back holds ass up and feet on, hip flexors lift feet back onto rock, that sort of thing...

In reply to cha1n:

Again i think that highlights the lack of aero you seem to be admitting too

My present onsight/flash and worked levels are much closer than yours for both boulder and routes, indoors anyway, if your profile is correct. On the plus side it takes most people a long time to get as strong as you and base fitness builds relatively quickly. Bring that up to scratch, incorporate both systems with ancap/an pow and you should be flying.

SHort term pain for long term gain.

In reply to cha1n:

I'm terribly with guessing grades, so please take that with an appropriate pinch of salt.

But actually because I'm shit at bouldering if I do a 12-15 mover after 2-5 goes then its actually not too far off as a workable ancap circuit so his guidance works for me in that respect.

In reply to biscuit:
Ahem... I'm trying to work on that. Lots of AeroCap during warm ups/downs, hopefully that will suffice.
If only! Think I've just got good teckers or something or I'm quite strong on slopers, which is not really of use on limestone sport.

In reply to AJM:

Agree, I'm also bad at estimating indoor grades as I find them all hard. Especially when you're trying to work out the grade of a 10-15 move boulder as I haven't got on many (any?) of those types of boulders outdoors, so don't have many to compare it to.

In reply to cha1n:

Yes, on reflection at my peak of "wiredness" on Ames Low (V7 but i had ot unbelievably wired because it was a project and then the start of a linkup prokect - I could drop my bags when i arrived and just fire it off casual as) I still couldn't have used it for ancap - I'd maybe have managed half or slightly over of a session, guessing wildly. But I'd have been closer to 1 grade down than 3 grades down if that makes any sense. So for something I had that wired maybe higher than the ranges I specified.

But its so hard to say. Try out the "2-5 goes" as a different interpretation of "just above flash grade" and see how you get on maybe?

In reply to AJM:

Ah forgot about Ames Low. Don't think I could AnCap that.

I think I'll have to go easier than 2-5 goes as the first half of the 7c I was using yesterday was onsight up to move 15 (where I then became massively powered out) but I couldn't use it for a second rep as I hadn't recovered enough.

I'm thinking that I'm going to have to use something I can easily onsight.

In reply to cha1n:

When trying to work out my problem i flashed it. Not easily, but not total max.

You don't get up V9 without some basic oomph so you must have some muscles somewhere. Either way if you're getting up them with technique that's even better

In reply to cha1n:

I don't know of Ally is lurking and can confirm but I think he told me once that ancapping V7 would be about the sort of performance you might expect from a ~8b climber.

In reply to AJM:

Maybe even harder than that? I've done several Font 7A/+'s in a session before, say 3 or 4 but that was with decent rest. Doing it with minimal rest would be insane.

In reply to AJM:
Yep - friday afternoon tea-break lurking...

I was happily an-capping V7-9 chunks of Parisella's cave link-ups last winter when training for Fisheye. The "wiredness" factor does enter into the equation here too, and any correlation with indoor grades goes out the window owing to my atrocious ability on any steep indoor board that i can't use technique to cheat my way up.

Given Cha1n's obvious basic strength, I guess he should start looking for a problem of reasonable length in the V5 region to an-cap on, and then make it harder if he can complete the full 4 reps, 3 sets structure without feeling powered out by the end of the session. This would fit with his overly strong, and ridiculously un-fit approach to ticking 8a, where as someone less strong, but with more balanced energy systems might only need to do an-cap'ing at V3/4 to achieve the same RP grade.

The next session he could find a harder problem, swap to screw-on feet instead of holds, or do Three Nine's suggestion on UKB and mimic a clip or two to increase the difficulty.

Note too that if you're suing the same problems week in, week out, you'll get them wired, move more quickly, and thus you could start finding the session feeling easier due to having a higher proportion of rest, rather than any actual adaptation. In other words - swap your training problems regularly, or reduce the rest if you're unable to find/make up new problems.

In reply to AJM:

Thanks for taking over the thread on such a short notice a couple a weeks ago AJM and enjoy your time in Albarracin! I finally feel like I got life back on track to start posting again. So my STG is to start keeping track of stats and weight to join in next week. In the previous weeks I did pick up iceclimbing and led a couple of WI3's now, but unfortunately conditions are bad atm, so will maybe go to Rjukan in the course of february.

In reply to Just Tintin:

That's terrible. I'm really sorry to hear that. Hope you recover soon and are able to get some things done in the meanwhile.

In reply to AJM and Ally


Ancapping V7 sounds insane. But I imagine that climbing 8b must be pretty hard. Do you have a similar value for 8a? And when you say ancapping, what exactly do mean? 4x4's?

In reply to TonyB:

"Linked boulder" I think is what Tom and therefore maybe Ollie calls it.

Something along the lines of 3 sets of 4 reps, with 5 mins between sets and 2.5 mins between reps. 12-15 move sort of stuff. Longer rests than a 4x4 so harder (and probably longer) problem.

Well, somewhere between about V4 for biscuit, maybe V5 for me and perhaps V2 for cha1n (given his recovery issues seems to be about the right range given the examples so far!

More seriously I suspect long problems somewhere between V4 and easy V6 depending on style, how wired you have it, whether you are already strong at Ancap or not, is the more usual range.

In reply to AJM:


Ha! I'll do some experimenting this weekend if it's wet and report back for comedy value. Will probably quote in short route grades though, not these American/Portland 'V' grades.

In reply to AJM:

Thanks. I know exactly what you mean now.

In reply to AJM:

Tried this AnCap malarkey today. Made up a 14 move problem (big moves though) taking about 40 seconds to climb (deliberately fairly slowly). 2ish minutes between reps, 5 mins between sets (did 3 sets). I'd guess the problem was around 6B but who knows.

Ended up powering out on the last move on the last last rep of the last set. Perhaps a bit too easy? Think it was one of the hardest moves on the problem and a bit powerful/slapping.

Quite enjoyed the workout actually. Fairly fast and you can do it after having a short boulder session.