UKC

Hey all, I have an issue that I am dealing with at the moment whilst arranging a remortgage. I have gone so far down the line with a mortgage provider for a good rate. I gave my valuation which allowed me to get a good rate but the mortgager's valuers have come back a whopping £40k under it which has pushed me into another bracket and as such will cost me a lot more.

I have contested this with the bank and the surveyors, Countrywide, which seems to have a habit of undervaluing according to the interweb. I have since sought independent advice from the Office of National Statistics and also a local surveyor and whilst my initial valuation was probably a bit on the high side, the independent advice suggests that I was £10-15k over which still gives me the rate that I want, and that Countrywide was way off the mark.

Problem is, I want to know how and why they have made this massive error. I have asked Countrywide and they have refused to give me any information, saying that I need to take it up with the mortgage company for whom the drive-by report was commissioned. I have done this and they say that they can only deal with the information provided. I can of course ask for an internal and more thorough report but this will cost me hundreds which I dont think I should have to pay for on the basis of someone's bad practice or ineptitude.

So here's the question. If the surveyors commission a report for the lender which is specifically related to me and has a very specific impact on me do I have a right to view that data.

Wikipedia here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Protection_Act_1998#Personal_data seems to suggest that the first three points regarding personal data are satisfied and that I have recourse.

Does anyone have any experience of the DPA1988 and specifically in relation to undervaluing and incompetent mortgage valuers.

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

You might get lucky if you go down that route if you get someone who doesn't know the law well, however the data you are after is not really personal data. It's data on a property (and a property that isn't even yours...yet).

In reply to balmybaldwin:

OK, fair point.

As the person responsible for the property and that the decision is affecting me both financially and also with stress are we not connected in some way? That is to say that the record will be under: Mr J Bloggs of 100 Jo Bloggs Street so whilst the detail will be property specific, the information will be filed under my name.

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

The contract is between the mortgage provider and the surveyor, so they are correct in that you have to approach your mortgage company. As to whether the mortgage company has to provide you with a copy I have not encountered such a request. I suspect it is a grey area but worth trying for £2.

You could ask the mortgage co if they have any other surveyors on their valuation panel, then ask they instruct one of them with a requirement that they undertake a full inspection and not a drive by / desk top.

I would not hold much stead in the ONS / Land Registry or whatever. It's a pretty blunt instrument and not sufficiently accurate to be of any use.

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

The cynic in me would say that Countrywide are paid to undervalue properties so that the mortgage provider is "forced" to offer you the deal that will cost you more and make more money for the mortgage provider. Since you are already very committed, you have no choice. But then you could always go elsewhere I guess. If it seems too good to be true - it probably is, as you are finding.

Care to name and shame?

PS Drive-by-valuation? Is that anything to do with Google Streetview?

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
This happened to me when I was selling a house in London. Foxtons valued it at an eye watering price (to me) so I stuck it on the market (not with Foxtons, their fees are a joke) and when A buyer offered the asking price, their mortgage valuer (countrywide) downgraded the price by £50k. It made no difference to me fortunately because the buyer was virtually all cash and wanted the property. Otherwise they could have re adjusted their offer.

At the time some of the feedback I was getting was that Countrywide and others were on a remit to try and keep a lid on the Foxtons of this world over valuing property to bulk up their own profits. Not much help, but could you ask your mortgage provider if you can supply your own survey to contest it?

Incidentally, Countrywide came in the house and did a full survey...tape measures, damp meters the works!

In reply to ByEek:



The BSociety is Yorkshire Building Society and they have actually been quite good to be fair and very accommodating of my frustration. Problem is, all of the good rates at 65% LTV which is the threshold I'm at seem to be part of the same group e.g. Chelsea and Barnsley BS's

The valuer is Countrywide and a quick Google suggests that they are a big player in the field but are commonly criticised for bad service and undervaluing.


This didnt occur to me as it happens. I wonder if this is the approach used by them for cheap, mortgage valuations as they can be done from the comfort of a chair. My house is somewhat set back from the road, in fact, from the road it is impossoble to set my property so I wonder if they have used this method and guessed. They are so far under it wouldnt surprise me.

R

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:


I would be really surprised if they did send anyone out. Imagine you had to do 1000 valuations a month all over the UK. That is a lot of mileage! If you live in a non-standard property that hasn't been bought or sold recently, I would imagine valuing it is very difficult if you don't know the local market.

Could you get a number of "official" valuations from local agents who Yorkshire Bank will recognise?

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

The data however is about the property and not about you? That would place it outside the DPA. In terms of the valuation there is nothing about you or your data involved and I believe the fact that said information then has relevance to you in no way makes it data about you. Happy to be proved wrong - this is based on my lay persons understanding.

Otherwise if you push it they would likely cite the data as important to their commercial operations and not release it - they have solid grounds to do this - and you'd have appeal, then likely go to tribunal. They'd basically have to give away their methodology to answer your question, and that is presumably a private method key to judging risks and there primary business.

A lot of properties are not shifting anywhere near their sale prices, presumably based on valuations. It wouldn't surprise me if the mortgage companies - rightly - use a value based on what things will rapidly shift at, likely to be a good 20% lower than what you might put it on the market at.

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

Had similar when we tried to re-mortgage with Santander via a broker. The valuer turned up, had a good look around and submitted valuation £x, which was a chunk, but not a massive chunk, below the threshold we needed to get the offer we wanted.

We contested it and were told he wasn't going to reconsider, because doing so would be an admission of error by him and therefore damaging to his reputation.

So, we went direct to Nationwide, who valued the house at more than we needed without sending anyone round and we did it all online.

In hindsight, perhaps I should have dropped a less than subtle hint about what we needed it to be valued at to get what we wanted when he was round.

In reply to ByEek:

As I understand it Countrywide are agency based, so the valuers will cover a local patch, rather than nationally. As you say, the local market knowledge is important, especially for anything non-standard.

The need to inspect will depend on the contract they have with the lender. At a minimum there must be an external inspection. I would be very surprised at any lender that accepts a desk top only unless there are particular constraints, such as urgent / restricted timescale. If it is a formal valuation , which is most probably is, then it will need to satisfy a raft of RICS requirements, which for a full valuation are very extensive and very onerous.

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

You have a right to appeal and what would help is if you can find at least two comparable properties nearby that have gone for the amount you're looking for. Rightmove has a Sold Prices section where you can search via street name / postcode.

In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:

Surely what you want - "how and why they have made this massive error" - is because they're incompetent! However in a survey you (or your bank) pays for an expert opinion, and now they've got it - the surveyor would argue that the fact that you disagree with that opinion is not their problem.

Your bank probably isn't going to pay for a second opinion because you disagree with the first, which leaves you with only one option I can think of - asking if the bank can send round a second surveyor, for which you will pay. This sucks, but any other way is just your word against theirs.

As an aside, we got our survey (from Nationwide) as a matter of course during the house buying process. Valuation surveys don't tend to have anything particularly enlightening in them, though. "The house exists, we don't think it's going to subside, this is the value."

In reply to MonkeyPuzzle:


Ive looked at this and this gets to the heart of the issue in that my home is completely unique to the extent that you wont find another one just the same. It was purpose built by a builder for his own home to his design and so it is very different to anything local. This, combined with the location which is totally private yet in the middle of the village.

I have a feeling I might be in head-wall-bang territory and might have to suck this up.