UKC

All

Just realized the way I phrased my last post was incorrect.

The question to all experienced alpinists I ask is this:

'During the week before you go alpine climbing, what do you do to narrow down your choice of route? What measures do you take? Do you have a method of doing this?'

Preparing is different to choosing, but 'choosing' was what I had in mind. The scenario involves a fit, kitted out climber with a good level of mountain fitness who knows basic rope-work, crevasse rescue, and can navigate.

Thanks in advance

H.

In reply to Hans:


Decide I want to do route A. Become aware partner wants to do route B. Casually highlight the problems with B, how it is out of condition/busy/too hard/too easy. Listen to partner doing the reverse. Suggest route C as a feint while partner suggests route D as a distraction. Check weather. Find a different, more favourable weather forecast. Find hut is full. Both realize route E looks possible and go and do that instead.

In reply to Hans:

By matching it to your alpine ability and experience, not just aspirations.

In reply to Hans:
Practice short roping wherever you can and learn how to manipulate a rope efficiently without standing on it in your crampons. Beg borrow or steal every guide book you can for the area you choose and read them in the loo and get inspired., Look at al the other picture books you can ditto and decide what looks reasonable for your level and learn by heart the description, approach and descent and carry a copy of it with you. Look carefully at the time it should take and probably add 50% as a beginner: if it takes you less then you are getting there. Sort your gear carefully before you leave the valley and keep it to a minimum rather than as for a British rock climb. Make sure it is properly organized the evening before you leave the hut and don't fart around finding your torch etc in the morning. Don't leave too early or too late. Note carefully landmarks on your approach to the mountain so you can identify them in return even if the descent is by another route in case you have to retreat.Rope up on glaciers, even if they look straightforward. And then just get on with it and enjoy it.

In reply to Hans:

Get into the "zone". Get to the area. Use your eyes, ears, and other senses to get a "feel" for current conditions. Watch wx: in particular snow, rain and wind. Look for a good window. (These days: read reports of others.) Choose. Go. And if you are unsure, or generally, just want to stay alive, be conservative.

I started out in quite a small mountaineering community and was lucky enough to know and occasionally climb with a few mega experienced and even "famous" people. I asked one what was the key to climbing Everest and K2 and the like and coming back alive when so many didn't. They said: Get Into The "Zone".

Have fun.

In reply to Hans:

Get pissed up in a pub with your mate and agree on something too hard and beyond you.

In reply to ro8x:

.... have an epic, rinse, repeat.

Good judgement comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgement!

CB

In reply to cb294:



That is possibly the best piece of 'real world' alpine advice I've seen on here.

It's just so true

In reply to cb294:

Too true, but not UKC PC

In reply to jcw:

useful advice given to me. climb something easy then increase either altitude, difficulty or length.

These days camp to camp, the OHM, chamounaird, or UKC can give you allmost real time info in most classics. Alpine climbing has never been easier!

In reply to alasdair19:
Well that advice is obvious. But your statement that Alpine climbing has never been easier does not seem to have resulted in the general level of British alpine climbing responding. Just look at the Alpine and expedition interest on UKC and the routes done.

In reply to jcw:

Please don't start some stupid nonsense on an otherwise excellent thread. There's always one isn't there...

Best

H.

In reply to Hans:

Or to be more polite (that reply was a bit OTT) my reaction was due to the following:

Alpinists have more hurdles to overcome in terms of reacting to changing conditions, and in terms of searching through the constantly evolving list of equipment needed.

There is a lot more option and choice than ever before, certainly. But I think that has made it more complicated and therefore takes longer to reach a high standard.

The best Alpinists, from my armchair, seem to be guides, sponsored athletes, and the seriously dedicated. Like any other sport really.

In reply to jcw:

Bednights in SAC huts have declined since the 1980s despite more beds, which suggests a general (slight) loss of interest in alpinism overall However, I think the reverse is true of honeypot huts like the Monte Rosa

In reply to Hans:


Nonsense.


Complete Nonsense.


No shit sherlock!

In reply to Goucho:

Thanks Goucho!

Good to see there's more than 'one'...

Best

H.

In reply to Hans:
What equipment list changes.have there been in the last 60years would you say, then?

In reply to Hans:
Find a hut (or huts I can get between) with a number of routes within my and my partner's ability. Aim to go high for a week or till weather seriously breaks. Speak with guardian about conditions and listen to their thoughts. Make final decisions night before. Spend second week in valley , mtn biking, via Ferratas p, walking , drinking and generally chilling.

In reply to MG:


No respectable Alpinist would step onto a glacier now days without his GoPro Hero 4!!

In reply to Hans:





Just a small piece of advice - don't wear your ignorance like a badge of honour.

In reply to Hans:
This
"Find a hut (or huts I can get between) with a number of routes within my and my partner's ability. Aim to go high for a week or till weather seriously breaks. Speak with guardian about conditions and listen to their thoughts. Make final decisions night before."

Also recce the start of the route the day before in daylight.

You probably are being a bit too detail focused. It's your first route. Enjoy it.

In reply to Hans:

So if I am going to a new area I will have a list of objectives ( that i would have researched for most of the year ) that scale in length and difficulty and I will generally start easy so I can blow away the cobwebs and understand the area and logistics. The quite earlier about experience being formed from bad judgement is very true in the alpine game .

I remember one week bregalia where we had decided before hand to tent it and walk into everything . We spent most of the holiday hiking up to stuff and running out of time on climbs , we should have stayed in huts .

Nowadays I get to know the logistics well, have back up plans and ease my self into it . I have repeatedly climbed in bregalia , dolomites and chamonix because of have a better understanding of how things work there built up over multiple trips.

In reply to Hans:

I would consider :

1) the nature of the area (lots of mechanical uplift, very little, mainly big mountains or principally technical rock routes, etc)
2) what my and my partner's objectives are (i.e. are there any 4000m peaks I haven't climbed there, and how can I persuade/fool/bully my partner into thinking that they want to climb them as well)
3) specific routes, including descent/escape routes/other bail-out options
4) competence/experience/fitness/aclimitisation for routes/area
5) weather/conditions leading up to the trip, also those forecast for the trip time

Important principle - do NOT get too route or peak fixated. If something just isn't there, don't try to desperately force it, that way lies coming away with nothing or getting into a desperate epic, or both. If you can't do what you want, want to do what you can, and enjoy it as a good day out in the mountains or even valley cragging.

Lots of sources of information these days, from webcams, weather forecasts (obviously), websites like CampToCamp, etc. CampToCamp is especially good as it contains recent descriptions of the route, from people who have done it. If anyone puts a description in of course, so it is worth making the effort to do that for a route you have done, to help someone else. Still look at guidebooks of course, which are mostly MUCH better than they used to be. Get advice if you can, e.g. ask about specific routes/areas here beforehand. Phrase your request right and people will be very helpful, sound like a smartarse and you will probably get some offhand responses.

In reply to MG:

That probably has quite a lot to do with the way the CH FR has gone ballistic over recent years. Parts of Switzerland seem almost deserted at formerly busy times, which is probably why the valleys are starting to offer free lifts.

(Frankly I expect the same for French ski-resorts very soon).