UKC

Couldn't find a thread so apologies if it's already been started.

Heading out tomorrow can anyone give a report on the conditions in the Scafell massif? I suspect it needs another week or two before anything comes in so please, please let this not turn into a bout of abuse at either me or anyone else!

Current forecasts show some good freeze thaw over the next week so perhaps next week might be better.

Any reports most welcome!

In reply to Chris Huntington:
Well done Chris, a few pics would be nice as well if possible. Enjoy your walk/climb.

In reply to paulh.0776:

Failing any feedback tonight I'll give a full report tomorrow

In reply to Chris Huntington:

Yep, suspect it needs longer, but forecast is a bit colder for the next few days. Quite a bit of snow fell higher up yesterday, but doubt that it has consolidated or firmed up yet. Likewise, suspect that turf not particularly frozen yet either.

Hope I'm proved wrong - have a good day

In reply to Chris Huntington:

Went for walk up Helvellyn via brown cove, ice and rime forming on summit (that's summit!) Looked at head of Brown Crag Cove Gullies, lots of new snow, cornicing with interesting cracks showing. Couldn't / wouldn't look at top of No 2 gulley red Tarn face but suspect, large unstable cornice. Glad to be above it all, nothing fills me with an urge to climb it but will be good later...much later..hope this helps

In reply to midweekjolly2:

That's great and as suspected- thanks for th report.

In reply to Chris Huntington:

It's a beautiful morning out there - clear blue skies, decent frost in Cockermouth so hope you have a good day out!

In reply to Chris Huntington:
Today
https://m.facebook.com/NTLakescampsites/photos/a.211203592234751.54016.2112...

In reply to Chris Huntington:

Anyone out today on Great End ?? - any reports ??
Doubt anything will be in yet judging by the conditions on Helvellyn today but.... a bit of wishful thinking

In reply to Jim Haydock:

Hi Jim. I had a day out today. We had a look at Great End - we checked all three gullys and none were anywhere near being in. There were patches of neve but the majority was deep windslab and therefore a real slog just to check the gullys out. No ice though time was starting to form in the rocks. Further, there was Avalanche debris at the bottom of and inside central gully.
We abandoned it and headed up Scafell pike. It was an absolutely incredible day however. Given the forecast over the next few days hopefully next week it should improve!

In reply to Chris Huntington:

Thanks for that Chris, just as I thought so plan B now for tomorrow - another good forecast so should be another corker
JH.

In reply to Chris Huntington:
You don't know each other, but you are both booked onto my cic meet!! ( Chris & Jim that is) Small world.

Not only that but I was staying at the Lyzzick Hall Hotel with my missus, gaining Brownie points for the aforementioned meet. So I went up Hellvelyn yesterday and descended via Brown Cove.
I did wonder if Jogebar might be in today as with facing south there would be more freeze thaw on it due to the sunshine.
Jeff B

In reply to Root1:
It was 6 deg at 900 feet here in N Lakes today - a bit on the warm side and the temperature projections from earlier in the day have been raised by various weather sites.
DC

In reply to Root1:

That's crazy! Look forward to meeting you chaps at the end of the month.

In reply to Dave Cumberland:

It wasn't 6 degrees at 900m today in the Lakes because I was out on Helvellyn and it was freezing on the top. The ice was bullet hard on the top. I didn't climb as I had the dog with me but people were on the Red Tarn gullies and said they fine.

In reply to Gael Force:

There can be quite a difference between fells in east lakes and west lakes, similarly between am and pm so you could both be right

In reply to Chris Huntington:
lots of people on ground conditions on fb claiming the gullies of red tarn face and browncove were in today? Which I could very well believe judging off the amount of neve I came across on Wetherlam while walking yesterday. But went up red screes last night and for a fell the same height as Wetherlam it was practically stripped in comparison. The snow that was left on red screes (only the plateau) was frozen hard. This is quite unusual as the east usually hold the snow for longer. https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10205722746964698&id=1136236859&set=a...

In reply to Gael Force:

I note Dave is operating pre-decimisation, he is talking about 900 feet (270m), you are talking about 900m (3000 feet).

In reply to The New NickB:

Ah that explains it then, both right, hurrah

In reply to Chris Huntington:

Had a quick trip over to Helvellyn and Red Tarn Cove today to have a look at the conditions, there's plenty of snow that starts well below Red Tarn, No.1 and 2 gullies are full with no significant cornices at the top, the face and the buttresses don't have any ice build up on them or any frozen turf yet.and aren't really in condition yet. Climbed no.1 gully which was stepped out in firm(ish) snow and would guess no.2 gully will be the same. I suspect the gullies on Brown Cove Crags will be similar. topped out just as the cloud came down...again

In reply to paulh.0776:

Has anyone been over great end way?

In reply to Chris Huntington:
I was up on Blencathra this evening, the conditions varied a lot across the mountain. On Halls Fell ridge there was a reasonable amount of snow, a little too soft to be fully confident with foot placements, but it was ok.

Then I dropped down towards the start of Sharp Edge, the face above the tarn looked decently white, but that's all I could tell as it was getting dark. The edge itself was ok, snow was a little thin and soft and the small patches of turf were barely frozen, hence the walking axe wasn't so useful.

Coming down off the SW shoulder I was surprised to see that the ground had been stripped bare of snow, even at 800m, what a difference from the Eastern side. All in all an enjoyable scramble, I can recommend it for the next few days at least.

In reply to The New NickB:
Decimalisation for pennies was 1971, I believe air traffic and airlines etc operate in feet. A very useful measurement. Not to be confused!
Milder this morning, plus 2 (Centigrade, not Fahrenheit) at 900 ft (not metres).
DC

In reply to Chris Huntington:

Help please! Just seen the A591 is closed where I was hoping to park for Helvellyn coming from Grassmere. Can you get to the usual parking coming from the North?

Many thanks

In reply to footwork:
The road is closed just past the summit of dunmail from grasmere and at swirls from the north. From the north you can use the layby just before swirls car park

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

Thanks a lot

In reply to Dave Cumberland:
indeed O/S 1:25,000 outdoor leisure maps were marked still in feet into the 80s at least.


ps at decimalisation a quarter of sherbert lemons was 5p and a somewhat larger Mars bar than the present offering went from 5d to 2p, so you could have a good time and still have change from sixpence!

In reply to Chris Huntington:
Heading up to Scafell/Great end area tomorrow.

Hoping to climb some gully/mixed routes but equally keen for snowy scrambles.

Anyone been out in the fells today that a could give an update on current conditions?

Thanks,
Luke

In reply to Lh88:

Turf not completely frozen at brown cove. Some ice kicking around, gullies not really in. Some slab starting to form in places. Tops scoured with ice under very thin snow. Stronger winds than forecast. Snow line similar at start or end of the day. Light snow showers seen.

In reply to dunnyg:

Unfortunately none of that news will stop anybody hacking up things when they should know better......

In reply to dunnyg:

Thanks! Hope you had a good day out. Might be a wintery walk then tomorrow.
L

In reply to Lh88:

For what it's worth,
Ran over The Knott and Rest Dodd today and this is what I found/ saw. Snow starts at 2000 feet and yesterday's warmer than forecast temps thawed this and it then re-freezed (re-froze?) overnight so some consolidation. Ground starting to freeze where scoured of snow but not under snow at all. Not a great depth of snow even at summits in the east.

Cloudy day but could see over into Deepdale - snow level above base of Greenhow End so Step Gully and Greenhow Gully not in. Scrubby looked more wintery but doubt turf would be frozen for Pendulum Ridge and Gully. I would guess this snow level would rule out Tarn and Falcon Crags on Dollywaggon too but couldn't see them. Lake District Weatherline reports are of soft unstable snow too. Was going to go out tomorrow but not so sure now.

Cheers
Davie

In reply to Chris Huntington:

I'm toying with heading up for some ski touring around Helvellyn and Raise. How's the snow cover holding up for skiing. Heading up Monday as likley as not.

Any cover backk to Stanah or better to park on the Mines side of the hill ?

In reply to david000:

Saw several skiers ( all tourers) out today, all between Greenside and Red Tarn, though the useful snow cover was not far below the ridge coming down from Catstycam. One skier skinned up as far as the col between Catstycam and Swirral Edge. Also some coming down on foot above Greenside as if they had been on the Raise slope. Not sure what other side is like as whiteout conditions on H summit. Variable snow cover depending on where its been blown, plenty of rocks at all levels, but also areas of pure white, meant to snow on and off over next few days, have a good one.

In reply to Chris Huntington:

Someone did no 1 gully on headwall helvellyn today- I'm awaiting a full report. Im looking to head over Monday or Tuesday which I think this winter may give the best chance of routes being in decent condition. If anyone fancies climbing- let me know, I'm currently going to be soloing something.

In reply to david000:
Hi David ,
Going up from stannah There is just enough snow to skin up from just beyond the shoulder above the sheepfold along the path to sticks pass and up to the summit of raise and probably beyond . Earlyish yesterday visibility was somewhat sub optimal so being short on time and having sudden onset man flu and I turned around and headed back from the col between raise and white side bank. The ski back was lakes combat skiing at its best (or worst depending on ones sense of humour ) . The snow on the runs at raise was top draw on Wednesday but I didn't fancy it in at times almost zero visibility. Looks like today will be a better day . I reckon with good visibility it will be possible to pick a line to ski between between the rocks . Hth .

In reply to mike123:

Cheers all. I'll make a decision tonight and go from there. My other choice is Snowdonia which would be new territory for me, but a little closer.

Update Sun/AM.

Ran up Wetherlam early this morning (fine sunrise) - up Hen Crag North Gully, down South Gully, up the next easy gully southwards then down Steel Edge. Similar to other reports, there's recent windblown snow on top of older stuff making these easy gullies OK but thin in places. No ice nor properly frozen turf (so Hen Crag Buttress not viable). Perfect day for a walk/run though.

DSM

In reply to Chris Huntington:

yesterday (sat) I went up an unlisted gully near top of fairfield. had a look at pendulum gully but it was completely stripped at the bottom. today I went to dove crag to do south gully but again no snow at all at the bottom. turf not frozen, soft snow. quite poor climbing conditions.

In reply to Chris Huntington:
went and did Original route on Rampsgill head today. Not bad condition at all really. 6 inch wind blown on top of some good firm snow. Strong north winds blowing spindrift upwards. Turf frozen ice forming and snow consolidating. Best conditions so far this year much better than on south gully Wetherlam yesterday. Great day actually white out on top and bitterly cold didn't get above 2.5 all day in the valleys and minus 4 on top . Snowing most of the day too in the far eastern fells even down to about 100m on the descent. Good hard frost last night ground frozen from valley upwards all puddles frozen solid and even running water apart from the gills obviously. First time placements and a fantastic day out. Only one other team out on the crag enjoying the good conditions a couple from Glenridding Charlie out from off here.

In reply to Lh88:
Went to climb Pinnacle Ridge (III) on Gable crag today. Backed off shortly after starting as the turf was nowhere near frozen enough. Most of the crag was nicely rimed but no consolidated snow or frozen turf to speak of.

In reply to Matt1234:
Indeed, that is the state of play also on Gt End - soft and wet underneath, not in nick and rather too much cruddy snow. Appearances are deceptive. DC.

In reply to Chris Huntington:

You want somewhere between 600m to 750m with a W aspect...

NMM

In reply to Chris Huntington:

Where's my best bet for a climb tomorrow? Ideally wanting to climb grade III mixed. Is anywhere in condition or do I just need to stick to something like striding edge?

Thanks.

In reply to Dave Heaton:
st sunday crag, Rampsgill head might be best bet, it seems like nw to west is the most frozen at the moment, considering most of the winds throughout this cold spell have come from the nw and lower than 800m got some freeze thaw with last weeks warmer days and colder nights. Just my opinion, Rampsgill wasn't too bad on Sunday best I have seen this season (which dosnt take much admittedly) and heard most routes that don't rely on ice on st Sunday crag on Saturday wasn't too bad either. Great end is supposed to be ok too according to ground conditions on fb.

In reply to Dave Heaton: pinnacle ridge St Sunday Crag?

In reply to Dave Heaton:

On Saturday, we went up Central Gully Left Hand on Great End - found unexpectedly good conditions and good neve where the ice pitch usually is (don't expect any gear though!). That would give you a good pitch of III, but wouldn't advise the right hand finish as the top bowl looked loaded with windslab which could be tricky to negotiate.

Here's a quick video I put together
vimeo.com/155424350

Cheers,
Joe

In reply to Chris Huntington:

I was on Gt Gable N Face yesterday and with the cold NE wind blasting the face for last 2 days -its thin but iced up.
I soloed Clark Gable and finished up something else and felt a tad stretchy and technically hard for the given grade. But then everything for me is Vdiff and I know nothing about modern technical grades. More snow due today and some freeze thaw expected next few days which may thicken up the ice. I am posting shortly a zoomable wide angle shot of the face high resolution which shows all the routes.

In reply to Chris Huntington:

I did get up for some ski touring on Monday. Good fun. Short video showing the conditions here from Mark H, a local guide.

youtube.com/watch?v=cEp7ybzMWDA&

In reply to Chris Huntington:

I was thinking of soloing gully 2 in helvellyn tomorrow? Has anyone been up the headwall? I don't want to get bollocked for harming rare plants but saw that people have been up central gully on Great End so suspect there must be adequate snow coverage.

In reply to Chris Huntington:
more than adequate coverage last week and on Monday - don't know what as happened up there since. I came down No 2 from close to the summit trending towards No 2 from above the No1 headwall - was an easy descent, pretty well walking at some points but at others taking care to skirt deeper and possibly less stable areas. At some points I turned in to use front points where the snow was safer that way. Used a single alpine axe so you can see it was quite straightforward, but I was always wary . Below the narrows I treated myself to a small slide. As I say, don't know what has happened since

In reply to Chris Huntington:
http://www.lakedistrictweatherline.co.uk/home

In reply to wercat:

I went up gully 2 today. Was good. There's Av debris at the bottom of the fully including a Huge chunk of cornice. This may have been dislodged by climbers however.

Other than that, great fun! Not much neve and some fattish ice is starting to form but I've seen a lot more in there in previous years.

In reply to Chris Huntington:

Good to know it was OK. I climbed an easy gully R of centre behind Scales Tarn on Blencathra today - not perfect condition but OK and gives a unique viewpoint you don't get from the normal path or Sharp Edge. Delicate work at the top though as snow not too solid.

Small icefalls behind the Tarn, played a while but they were thawing, need to be there early in the day after a cold night!

In reply to Chris Huntington:

Plastic ice and perfect neve away from the honeypots today. 150 m of climbing over two routes of which probably 40m grade II/III ice in two 20m pitches. Beautiful calm conditions too.

A good day for not going too high where deeper snow inhibits ice formation.

Sadly rain is on the way just as conditions come in.

In reply to Chris Huntington:
Bit of everything today but I didn't find that plastic ice. Did a gully on High Crag Ruthwaite Cove which was easy enough apart from the crux to get over the little chockstone. A flailing technique won the day on vertical powder, being very careful when pulling over as I was soloing (not a good place to solo). Then went down E Ridge of Nethermost and up nethermost Gully Chimney variation and down striding edge. More soft snow on the chimney but far easier. An excellent day out

Pictures at https://johnfleetwood.smugmug.com/Mountainsfolder/LakeDistrict/Helvellyn/Ru...

In reply to Full moon addict:

Great conditions on Great End today. Which made the walk in from ODG Worthwhile. Did CG LB Which had a little avalanche debris at the bottom but looked like it had come down the night before, the ice pitch was a combination of hard neve and patches of ice, and steeper than i remembered, no problems with the exit though wind blown snow was starting too accumilate. The whole crag looked to be in good condition and id gusess most routes would be ok, even the mixed turfy ice lines on the left side like aspirant ect. Shame temps will rise tomorrow, but id think some stuff may survive for when it cools down again later on sunday. HTH

In reply to Chris Huntington:
Fantastic conditions with frozen turf, great ice and a good frozen crust on the snow for Buttress Gully last night. Beautiful night to be out with amazing conditions

In reply to Chris Huntington:
Still loads of snow left in Browncove crags area today, snow line now at about 650m the snow pack is saturated and very soft will be brilliant when it refreezes. Major avalanches at the bottom of every gully. Buttresses still have plenty of snow on them too. Amazingly a team gearing up and heading up Broad Gully ???

If anyone fancies getting out this week for a climb in the lakes give me a shout, i'm up for anything trad, bouldering or if the conditions change something a bit more wintery... I've got gear and more than happy to drive! Tuesday looks like it could be reasonable

In reply to Wesley Orvis:
I was in Ruthwaite Cove today. lots of ice on the terrace of Nethermost south face but when we got up to it we found it was melting and was not attached to the rock. The snow was soft and the turf underneath was not frozen. However the exposed turf was frozen in more exposed areas. Jogebar gully looked in good nick from a distance but it was much the same as the terrace. So we walked up to nethermost pike then Helvellyn and down striding edge. If it gets cold again which I think it will early next week I think this venue will be worth a visit.

In reply to Chris Huntington:

Hoping to go to Great End tomorrow (Wed), any info on todays conditions after the drop in temps would be a great help

In reply to Chris Huntington:

Was thinking of a moonlit trip out this evening. Anyone been anywhere near the Dollywaggon and Nethermost crags since the weekend? Specifically thinking of Jogebar Gully and assuming that Tarn and Falcon Crags are stripped.

Cheers
Davie

In reply to DR:

I haven't been since the weekend but last week when there was a decent amount of snow it only looked just about in. I doubt whether it is after the thaw but I could be wrong!

In reply to Chris Huntington:

Anyone up for an afternoon/evening scratch around tomorrow I'm up for a climb ?
Spoke to Wes (Orvis) earlier and, although a lot of snow has gone from the lower fells he was on Helvellyn today and reported great conditions and neve (rock hard).

I'm thinking of Tarn crag or Nethermost areas as the gullies sound bomber

email if interested.

JH.

In reply to Chris Huntington:
bomber neve on the Helvellyn range today. Did catsycam gully gully no.2 and down striding edge. The snow is perfect neve and the top outs only taking front points it's that hard can't even kick a step. Turf and ice climbable but not quite there but the snow really is in fantastic condition making the grade 1 gullies feel very serious. Solo catsycam gully but roped up for gully no.2 and was really glad of it with the bullet hard neve large cornice and steep head wall soloed it many times but today it really did feel serious including catsycam gully where the avalalanche debris gave an extra 100 m of neve to the gully. Fantastic day out and although repeating routes they felt very new with the current bomber neve and steep exits. https://m.facebook.com/wesley.orvis/posts/pcb.10205811194375828/?photo_id=1...

In reply to paulh.0776:

did you manage to get to great end today? what were conditions like? hoping to get there on friday.

In reply to hikerman:

Just got back in from Great End, had a great day, climbed Central gully Left Branch, good solid neve all the way, its in good nick, no cornice to negotiate at the top. The ice hasn't bonded to the rocks so any ice routes aren't really in. SE gully isn't complete, the narrow mid section is bare of ice, but has some snow patches. Didn't look into Window Gully but would imagine that the ice fall finish isn't in, but would still be climbable to the left side.

In reply to Chris Huntington:

Been on the Red Tarn face today - V Groove. Conditions are excellent for gullies. The neve is superb. Ice is not bonded to rock but turf is good.

In reply to Chris Huntington:

Does anybody know if you can still park at dunmail raise? I haven't been up that way since the floods and don't know exactly where the road is closed. Anybody help?

In reply to Paluchi:

hi , was there last week you have to come in from Keswick if you want to access Brown Cove and park in the layby near Thirlspot, not sure how far you can get up Dunmail from Grasmere, sorry

In reply to Paluchi:

Yes in the layby just down the road from the normal car park

In reply to Root1:

Thanks for the responses guys, however I should of made my post abit clearer. I was referring to the Grasmere side. Hoping to park in the usual layby on the right near the top of the pass and then head up to Grizedale Tarn / Dollywagon

In reply to Paluchi: no problem the whole road can be a car park now I just parked in the over taking lane on the main road a few weeks back.

In reply to Chris Huntington:

Went up to brown cove crags yesterday, there where quite a few teams gearing up. Did the gully to the left of central gully, never was rock hard to the top, water ice had formed in places and the turf lower down was frozen early on.

Massive cornice on the exit which we avoided by heading up and to the left.

Had a great day out

In reply to Chris Huntington:

Out on Fairfield today. Very little snow at low levels, but some brilliant neve in places. The Cofa Pike route on to Fairfield is in full winter condition with very hard neve. The routes on Tarn Crags and the combe round to the right may still be in good nick. I'll post a photo in a minute.

In reply to Chris Huntington:
Great End was great today. Central Gully LH looked dodgy with gaps in the neve but went OK with care plenty of secure ice when I did it if you take care - at least two people came up after I did and the middle way was done as well - RH looked dodgy. Central was also a bit thin in places below the amphitheatre but everyone just took extra care.

Window was straightforward if thin but with reasonable ice up to the windowed amphitheatre - RH alternative not really in, undercut slab with lots of water running. Normal finish was the dodgiest moment of the day, very very hollow - very delicate in places, not much good ice.

In reply to wercat:

Has anyone been around Hart crag lately? Just wondering if the ice falls are in.

In reply to machine:

I walked around there earlier in the week, based on what I saw on the side of dove crag from the path I'd say maybe by now, but they might be thin. For anyone who's wondering, inaccessible gully is nowhere near.

In reply to Chris Huntington:

Up on great end last night central LH and window gulley both thin in places but turf solid good condition great evening out surprised to see so few people why do so few folk go out at night ? Conditions are loads better and quiet. Itll be a scrum come saturday !

In reply to machine:

No but the gullies at the top of Deepdale were looking good yesterday (picture on the way)

In reply to Rog Wilko:
There is a thin fresh cover of snow in head of Langdale this am, won't add much to the climbing but looks the part

alternatively

https://www.facebook.com/NTLakescampsites/photos/a.211203592234751.54016.21...

In reply to John Kelly:

Superb picture - guidebook material.
Great rock architecture and good timing.
DC

In reply to Dave Cumberland:

Cheers - unfortunately almost all too steep for me - just the bits in shadow give any hope

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Did Nethermost Gully yesterday, superb neve and some ice (and a big cornice with a pre dug hole courtesy of "Elastic Jones"). Striding Edge also very icy and great fun.

In reply to Iain Thow:
If never most gully had a big cornice does that mean gully 2 red tarn is likely too as well.
Thanks

In reply to Chris Huntington:
Fun morning on Great End. Good solid Neve and Ice all the way bar a few holes here and there. Central LH was good, as was Window Gully bar a couple of holes. All that rain certainly took its toll! I'll scramble some pictures together asap.

reply to Fatherof2:


Sssshhhhh! You will create scrums in the evenings.

In reply to Removed Userdmbishop:

At least one party did 2 Gully, apparently had great neve too, and a cornice. Not sure how big the latter was though.

In reply to Chris Huntington:

Request for injured climber on Great End.

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=635388

In reply to Removed Userdmbishop:

The cornice yesterday wasn't huge but given a bit of sunlight or other warming up and it will collapse. Some of it only looks like it'd need a breath of wind!. So basically, I should image you'd be able to find a way through with too much difficulty, but beware of the risk whilst under it. I spoke to a guy who had just soloed Gully *1* and had found a cornice-less way through at the top.

Disclaimer: This was my view from the top, I didn't actually climb anything.

In reply to Chris Huntington:
Beautiful day out today, rather busy. Bored with the idea of walking up to Red Tarn tried the big gully on Catstycam, far better way up, decent neve, occasionally thin in a stream bed but easily bypassed as there are expanses of neve to the top, just a little surface snow in places and cornice is tiny.

Then on to No 1 Gully which is in really excellent condition, much better ice, quite busy. Cup of tea then off to Nethermost which was in reasonable condition apart from some powdery snow which could mostly be avoided. There is a lovely and artistic tunnel through the fair sized and solid cornice, good neve at the top so no problem.

Down No 2 gully with a detour to climb the marvellous iced up slab immediately left of the narrows of No 2, was like glacier ice, very forgiving with reasonable topout.

Finished up V corner (one of them!) with an excursion onto iced rocks to the R of the gully bed. Pretty nice conditions today all round, lots of folk enjoying the fine weather

In reply to wercat:

8loody 'ell, mate, wish I were young again. Good effort.

In reply to wercat:

Short of V corner this is exactly my plan tomorrow! Me and 2,000 others I expect...

In reply to Chris Huntington:

Anyone been up Brown Cove Crags this week - wondering about conditions ? Thanks

In reply to Chris Huntington:

Nice little Video of Central Gully on Great End on Thursday: youtube.com/watch?v=KwRIFuRaJ74&

In reply to Stephen Reid - Needle Sports:

That looks Bonza! nice video.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

Would like it to be due to youth but, sadly, more like bloody mindedness on seeing such a lovely day and make the most of it or bust!

Quick sprint up to Great End Sat/afternoon from Wasdale via Skew Ghyll.
Fine approach - fell running shoes all the way to the crag & dry feet.
Soloed Custs, Branch, Window (RH exit) & Central LH.
Generally good neve everywhere & still plenty of it despite heavy traffic.
Best conditions for a while in my opinion, enjoy.

DSM

In reply to fatcat:

We descended down the central gully this afternoon and it was getting a bit sugary, the mixed climbs looked pretty bare to me. However Red tarn face gullies very good firm neve and some ice on the mixed climbs. Strangely Swirral Edge was the most serious climb (down) being banked out with hard snow. Saw a guy slip head first down it, fortunately he was roped and didn't go too far,

In reply to Chris Huntington: My day at Brown Cove Crag and Helvellyn

Take a look at @DaveSonic's Tweet: https://twitter.com/DaveSonic/status/704002767656976384?s=09

In reply to Mountain Llama:

Took a punt and went up to looknow at scrubby crag which was bare but to our surprise hart crag opposite was dripping in ice with some good steep pitches defiantly in. Definitely worth a look if conditions stay good

Another late afternoon outing - Sun/PM, Helvellyn.
Up CatstyeCam Gully, up V-Corner, down Gully 2, up Gully 3, down Nethermost Gully, back along Striding Edge.
Despite heavy traffic all these routes remain climbable with fine neve, frozen turf & cornices of varying sizes.
Still much fun to be had, enjoy yourselves.

DSM.

In reply to Chris Huntington:
Tried to avoided the crowds today by walking up Grisedale to nethermost cove and it worked. Great conditions out of the sun today on Swallow Rake variation on Swallow Scarth the variation was due to dodgy snow in the sun and then Nethermost Gully then down the east ridge of NP. Great neve, ice and frozen turf where the sun hadn't got to too much. In the sun mush with the traverse from striding edge to Nethermost horrendous but once in the gully fantastic.

In reply to Wesley Orvis:
Climbed AB Buttress in Ruthwaite Cove yesterday, which was in decent nick with a reasonable covering of neve and well frozen turf.

Also, there were no people at all, unlike Brown Cove and Red Tarn, and yet the climbing was of similar quality...

In reply to LakesWinter:

And Jogebar Gully is not in, in case anyone was wondering...

In general the ice conditions in the Lakes are limited to the highest and most reliable stuff, from what I've seen this weekend and last wk when I was out. E.g. Helvellyn high up, Great End, Hart Crag.

In reply to Wesley Orvis:

Agreed, the traverse was not great in places on the thin melting snow on top of small piece scree, but at least Nethermost cove was not filled with people, which I assume Great End was. ( I found it difficult to determine which to go to yesterday). Plus there was the bonus of the aesthetically pleasing cornice tunnel at the top of the gully.

In reply to Chris Huntington:

Lost new shiny locking crab in left gully of brown cove crags. Tumbled down from near top, probably landed near bottom of the top icy pitch.

In reply to LakesWinter:

Seen you's on AB buttress we passed you on our way to dollywagon high crag, on descent into it we found unfrozen turf under sugary snow up to 10 inches deep and were bare it was not frozen so we headed back to red tarn cove and done 3 routes. Ice, turf and neve was awesome but you could feel, see and hear it beginning to thaw, reckon the freezing level was up around the summits. All after a walk in from swirls, we should have went straight to red tarn.

Can someone tell me exactly which route wall and ramp is, we climbed an ice fall on the left about 25-30m up to a belay and a long snow slope on the right with 2 short steep pitches in it 40m up to a spike belay both from the same stance at the bottom. wasn't sure which 1 was the route

Let's pray for more cold weather

In reply to wercat:


These things are all relative, of course. I can remember when I was late 50s my dear old mum referring to Debbie & me as "you young 'uns". Sad thing is I now realise she was right!

In reply to Chris Huntington:
Did Catstye Cam Gully yesterday morning and have a few photos of two chaps from near Leeds, if they check these forums and are interested. The full album is here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/50907229@N06/albums/72157662929554603

I've just posted a blog post about it as well: http://samharrison-ml.co.uk/blog/2016/02/catstye-cam-gully

Everyone else seems to have pretty much summed up the conditions correctly!

In reply to samharrison7:

Thanks Sam,
Yrs,
Two chaps from near Leeds

In reply to Ross McGibbon:

No worries, hope you enjoyed the rest of your day!

In reply to Chris Huntington:

For those wanting something a bit harder to play on Moss Ghyll was climbed over the weekend, Steep Ghyll was reported to look good, (although I don't know if it was climbed,) and Heirloom was climbed last week and over the weekend, but will probably need a little more snow to whiten up the top groove now. (It can be seen from the road using binoculars though.)

Having said this, if we get a bit of snow many mixed routes will come in as the turf, in my experience over the weekend, is bomber and there are quite a lot of ice weeps on crags.

In reply to Chris Huntington:

Anybody seen how bad the thaw was? I fear that a lot of the steeper ice hadn't made it through the fragile stage...

In reply to Exile:

I think the ice on the Collie Step will have gone in the summit temps of today as it was pretty thin to start with - it may now need longer to re form...

In reply to Chris Huntington:

Any feedback today and tomorrow for great end would be appreciated. I'm up on friday to hopefully climb that area.

In reply to Chris Huntington:

Has anyone been out in the Langdale area recently? what are things looking like in the Shelter crags - Bowfell area?

In reply to Chris Huntington:

I was planning to do Nethermost Gully at the weekend (the tunnel looks great!) but sadly from what I've read the avalanche risk from Wednesdays dump of snow looks too bad. Any feedback from anyone in the Hellvellyn gully areas appreciated.
Many thanks

In reply to Babika:

It will have had chance to settle down by the weekend hopefully.

In reply to Babika:

Fair bit of avalanche debris in Ruthwaite cove this afternoon. Snow very unstable and cornices looked ready to go

In reply to Babika:

Here's a few photos from today in Ruthwaite cove area: http://www.mountain-journeys.co.uk/blog/winter-conditions-lake-district

In reply to Kid Spatula:

Lots more snow due tonight and tomorrow morning. I wouldn't want to be anywhere near a gully this weekend.

In reply to Simon Caldwell:

Sadly that's the conclusion I'm coming to. Bugger. Was looking forward to that cornice tunnel on Nethermost Gully. Grrrrr.

In reply to Babika:

Forecast looks good for Sunday.
If you took people like Offwidth's etc. advice, nobody would ever go near a gully full of snow ever again!
I'd go if I could.

In reply to Lusk:

Yeah - you're right there are some doomongerers on UKC!!
And some who would rather we never went anywhere without a guide

I'll have a look and take a judgement. My first difficulty will be the M6 on a Friday in yet more snow....

In reply to Chris Huntington:

Anyone know how Scafell Crag is looking?

In reply to robgixer:

Its snowed in Kendal overnight so my guess is its covered in white wet snow......

In reply to Babika:

I went over Striding Edge yesterday - enough snow and rock not to use crampons as long as care was taken. Looked over from the summit to the exit slopes for No 1 and No 2 and they didn't seem much changed from Monday. Also Met a party who'd done Nethermost where the new snow had made some of it harder work. Therefore I descended No 2 safely - The iced up slab is still there and fatter, more ice around generally than Monday.

The new snow is not so deep you can't kick through to the base - the only difference was that I front pointed down instead of walking on neve with spikes down/sidewards as this felt less secure.

Looked into No 1 and it looked so nice I couldn't resist an ascent even though I didn't really have time. Went easily with a single axe, though it was necessary to choose the solid ice among a bit of more friable stuff.

So certainly not total doom yesterday at all, only wished I could have gone out today, though it is pretty windy

In reply to Lusk:

They were not at all full of snow, though some looser stuff at the bottom. Enough for a long series of slides to save effort on descent to the Tarn afterwards

In reply to Dark-Cloud:

I can see its snowed just wondered if anyone had been on it to know more accurate conditions.

In reply to wercat:

Thank you wercat! That is really helpful beta

In reply to Chris Huntington:

I'm thinking of heading up to N.Wales or the Lakes next weekend, anyone on the ground there prepared to make a conditions forecast?

In reply to Lusk:

A gully full of snow may or may not be dangerous, but is almost always hard work and unpleasant!

In reply to Chris Huntington:

Whats blencathra like?

In reply to Red Rover:

It's sort of like a big lump with grass on it and some rock.

In reply to Red Rover:

https://twitter.com/TheRealBrianSmi/status/705774963140268032

In reply to Mountain Llama:

Thanks

In reply to Red Rover:

It's like this , It's from about a week ago though !
youtube.com/watch?v=IdwIkz1Ayi0&

In reply to Chris Huntington:

Walked up to Great End on Friday in knee deep fresh snow. It was thawing heavily later in the day creating a nice avalanche risk. If it freezes ithasthe potential to be good.

In reply to Root1:

The lake district snow report says that slopes facing NE to S (on helvelyn) show signs of 'great instability', if it doesnt improve I'm guessing the southern ways up Blencathra (Halls fell, sharp edge etc) are a bad idea? Or are they ridgy enough to be safe?

Cheers

In reply to Red Rover:
The ridges will be fine, snow volumes on the northern fells are not too high. Historically, the main Avalanche risk associated with sharp edge is the approach up Mousethwaite Combe, but still very rare.

In reply to Red Rover:
In many ascents in different conditions I've always found Sharp Edge to be OK, though the same is not always true of the slopes above Scales Tarn which can be unstable near the top particularly. Haven't been out since Thursday so can't speak for current conditions but I often head for Striding Edge or Sharp Edge after fresh snow as you can have a nice outing away from many of the problems caused by fresh snow. Might be hard work breaking trail on the approach sometimes though!

In reply to Tom the tall:

OK thanks. Will the Halls fell ascent be OK as well?

In reply to Red Rover:

Safe I would say. There was only any depth of snow high up. It would take a lot of snow for the top of Sharp Edge to be a risk.

In reply to Red Rover:

I've always found Halls Fell ridge fine after snow...

In reply to davestevo:

Thanks everyone!

In reply to Chris Huntington:

It seems Window Gulley (Ice Fall Finish) on Great End got done today. Does anyone know what conditions were like?
Thanks in advance
M

In reply to Chris Huntington:

Went to Cock Cove Crag today and climbed Coco-Tara Direct and Central Route. Turf well frozen where exposed, but soggy elsewhere. Good fun. Descended via Striding Edge, good condition, fun end to the day. Didn't see any other climbers all day

In reply to dakidunn:
I did central gully right arête today. We swam up the snow for around the first 60 meters but after that the snow firmed up and was good but protection was scarce due to every thing being plastered. Warthogs came in handy. There were quite a few people doing central Gully left branch. They told me that the conditions on the steeper sections were good and positive. It didn't look as if the ice had formed it looked more like steep neve. I hope this helps. The weather looks good for tomorrow. I will fire a few pictures onto the gallery to give you an idea of what the conditions are like

In reply to Chris Huntington:

Friday we were in central gully after a terrific winter camp on Sprinkling tarn and conditions were better as we progressed, I second the poster above regarding protection, everything was covered quite heavy so belays we quite long unless you are willing to do the digging. Cust's we did for fun and the top has a small cornice which has hardened a little.

Nethermost was fantastic today. The turf isn't all frozen so we stayed off the mixed routes. The gully was excellent for a solo but care is needed as too much hacking could cause damage. Conditions are really starting to develop well but some freeze thaw would definitely harden things up.

In reply to olddirtydoggy:

Great day today to be out in the Lakes , I did the Sharpe Edge / Halls fell traverse on Blencathra great conditions and views , marvellous!

In reply to Chris Huntington:

Great day out at Brown Cove Crags. Teams on parallel gully rib, central gully (????) and left buttress.

Turf in good nick on left buttress but a fair amount of powder covering everything.

Pics here https://twitter.com/DaveSonic/status/706528968221057025

Davey

In reply to Mountain Llama:

Good conditions in red tarn cove. climbed viking buttress and number 1 yesterday and v corner and blade runner today. excellent snow, solid turf and a bit of ice about.

In reply to Chris Huntington:

Blencathra was great today, lots of good snow. I wanted an excuse to stay on the summit so we built an igloo, it's a good little shelter while it lasts.

In reply to Red Rover:

Think we walked past you guys building an igloo (unless there was another team doing the same), very neat block work going on! Amazing day to be out, we did Sharp Edge which was lovely.

In reply to robgixer:

Did Nethermost Gully on Saturday - great snow conditions. At least 10 people did the route.
Unfortunately the tunnel through the cornice seems to have disappeared/ filled in so we had popped a rope on for the last moves getting through the cornice.

Apologies for teams below who may have received some loose stuff from above while we were battling through it!

In reply to Simon Caldwell:


Such is life, it's the chance you take. Sounds like a lot of people have had a good day out, which they wouldn't have had if they'd listened to the Armchair Avalanche Analysts and stayed at home.

In reply to samharrison7:

Thanks! It was good snow for building. I was wondering if I could have survived a night confined to the igloo, with what was in my bag (belay jacket, buffalo mountain shirt, hardshell, bothy bag and food). At the time I felt like I could but its freezing cold outside now and I'm at sea level so it would have been bad (not that I was really considering it).

In reply to Lusk:


Agreed!

We even met a doomongerer roadside who told us we definitely shouldn't go up to Nethermost Cove as the avalanche risk was too high.
So we went up, inspected a deep slice of snow in the gully and made an intelligent judgement about conditions ourselves before climbing the route........

In reply to Babika:

Nice one!
Why am I not in the slightest bit surprised you had a good day out?!?!?

In reply to Babika:

Good to hear that you had a good time, but the route through the cornice was more aesthetic last Sunday!

In reply to Babika:

I was the one going solo coming up just after you, with my sack getting jammed under your rope. The loose stuff added to the fun, good route and good people. Happy days.

In reply to Chris Huntington:
Climbed Central Gully on Great Gable (Gable Crag) today. The rock was well hoared up and quite a lot of fresh snow about making finding placements (for picks and gear) hard at times but turf and neve beneath not bad and very good higher up, other routes would clearly have been climable (certainly Pinnacle Ridge which we nearly climbed instead) but amazingly we had the entire place to ourselves.
Re Central Gully, the chimneys on p.1 and 2 (as described in the book - we ran them in) were both quite lean so we took the ridge to the left of p.1 and the LH gully on p.2 but both still worthwhile. The steep corner chimney of p.4 was the crux and much harder than III, felt harder and less well protected than say Glover's Chimney so I'd say its really IV 4 in current conditions. Mostly easy snow with one more short pitch above but good neve at this height.
An absolutely glorious day to be out and negligible avalanche risk (anywhere we were at least). Green Gable looked okay as well, footprints up Gully of the Plods, though not from today, and no cornice difficulties to exit (we walked back over the top of it and looked down).

Here's a few pictures of the crag and general views to give an impression of conditions:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/136995646@N07/with/25570009155/

In reply to Chris Huntington:

Anybody available today (monday) for something wintry. Anything. Beautiful calm cold morning up here. keswick based.
Nigel

In reply to Chris Huntington:

We did the ice pitch left of Left Branch of Central Gully on Great End yesterday. Neve was ok most of the way up, better towards the top and mostly frozen turf all the way. There was some ice on the ice fall but quite aerated and cloudy. Descended Cust's which seemed quite powdery in comparison. Stunning blue skies all day.

In reply to dakidunn:

I've given you a "like" there Mark despite missing out on a grand day

In reply to Lusk:


I don't think anyone suggested that did they? I know I didn't, and had a great weekend out (though in Snowdonia rather than the Lakes, and on ridges rather than in gullies).

In reply to pec:

Sorry, you didn't quite have the place to yourselves! I did Windy Ridge and Pinnacle Ridge while you were in Central Gully and can confirm they were in excellent condition. Green Gable wasn't so good. I stopped off on my way to Gable Crag and found the turf on Gates of Eden to be a bit patchy, too much sun for it to be properly frozen unfortunately. It was an amazing day to be out.

In reply to davidh:


You must have been soloing to get all that done and make no noise! Did you come in via windy gap, we never saw anyone approach the crag from below all day.
Pity the forecast looks like it will all be largely gone by next weekend, another week or so and conditions would be fantastic.

In reply to Chris Huntington:

Heart stoppingly beautiful today. Quite cold in the shadows down in Catstye Cam Gully. It seemed to have gone beyond neve (in a good way) at the top, felt like I had to concentrate but the picks sang in. If you can get there before that big wash of yellow comes in from the Atlantic do it.

In reply to Pete Pozman:

Gullies on Brown cove good today.
Left buttress was NOT frozen with loose turf and rock. Seemed to have been insulated by new snow.

In reply to Chris Huntington:
Absolutely stonking day yesterday. Very good conditions on great end. Nice and solid for soloing. Went up Central Left Hand, then descended Custs before going up Window Gully. Descended Custs again then went up SE Gully. Ice on chockstone was a bit hacked away so went up to right which was a nasty little traverse soloing. Had lunch on top, then walked over to Broad Crag and went up Broad Crag Gully which was very good. Walked over Scafell Pike to Mickledore, then round to Pikes Crag. This has seen a lot of sun and bits were falling off and was very soft at the bottom. Someone else had gone to have a look but walked off which was probably sensible. However, there was a stunning icicle draped entry to C Gully which looked very inviting. It was a bit marginal but went okay in the end with a bit of care, albeit dripping.What a fantastic day. Images at https://johnfleetwood.smugmug.com/Mountainsfolder/LakeDistrict/Scafell/Grea...

In reply to Full moon addict:

Dont suppose any one been to look at dove crag gully or am i being too optimistic ?

In reply to Fatherof2:

Don't think its been cold enough to form

In reply to Full moon addict:

Wow! Looks like the Lakes are delivering a very enjoyable season. Great pictures.

In reply to Babika:

Was rather good yeterday. I didn't expect much but just went up to Red Tarn to enjoy the glory of the northern wintryness and "White Tarn" in the grey gloom. Looked at No 1 gully to see what it was like as it's a decent benchmark and was surprisingly good. About 8-10 inches of loose snow in the bottom was hard work but soon improved. Soft snow near the cornice made care necessary but really wasn't bad, and the LH finish to No 2 gully, which I haven't done for many years, made a nice bonus - a bit reminiscent of the Runnel in the conditions, a lot of steep neve and a little ice. A bit easier than I remember it being in the 90s when it had a lot of water ice steep bulges making it feel more like III and quite serious.

Great End fantastic on Monday, Central Left was a doddle and very safe with a nice finish, RH variation to Window was also bomber. Failed on SE Gully as I didn't feel the crux or its alternative were worth the risk without a rope so repeated Central to finish the day - didn't set off down till nearly 5.

In reply to Chris Huntington:

Hello Chris, quick one are you paired up with a climbing partner for tomorrows outing?
if not do you fancy meeting up for some climbing?

regards
Ronnie )

In reply to Chris Huntington:

I had a good day out soloing today. went to rampsgill head which was in very poor condition. I didn't have a guide book but think I did central gully and a II/III on the left hand buttress. loose blocks, very soft snow and unfrozen vegetation made it quite thought provoking. After that I decided I needed to go higher so headed down for lunch then drove to Glenridding and did V Corner, Wall & Ramp, Gully 2 coming down and a route to the left of V Corner that doesn't seem to be in the guide. A few more technical moves on this. Nothing was properly frozen on Helvellyn even right at the top with soft snow over a hard base, but there's enough of it to make the climbing quite easy. If the thaw continues, the choice of routes will diminish.

Sat/12th/1600.

Just run up Scafell from Wasdale via Lord's Rake. Thick mist, temperatures above zero everywhere, running water @ all levels, rocks bare/wet. Having said that there's still a lot of snow about, although its melting fast of course.

DSM

In reply to DSM:

Thanks for posting that info DSM. I suppose we could have guessed it would be like that but good to here from someone who has been out in it. Thinking about Custs Gully on Tuesday with some mates. Expecting it to be soft snow most likely but will see on the day.

In reply to Chris Huntington:

Leaving for lakes in 2 days and wondered if anyone had been on anything today?

In reply to olddirtydoggy:

up to date pics here http://www.lakedistrictweatherline.co.uk/home

In reply to olddirtydoggy:
On Sunday snow was so soft and sugary around Gable it was impossible to walk on.
Rock climbing weather.
Crap winter overall.
DC

In reply to Dave Cumberland:

The winter has been a massive disappointment as far as it's logevity is concerned. Unusually high temps have wiped out the January snow and this last week seems to have been another big thaw. Glad I managed to get 3 days of good climbing in but I'd expect more than that.

In reply to olddirtydoggy:

The snow on Great End yesterday was frozen hard. Scafell looked like it had been pretty much completely stripped from a distance and only the most reliable gullies are left. I managed Central Gully Right Hand and Far Left with a deviation to the left to avoid the bare chockstone. Custs was excellent too. I tried Left Hand and the Middle way but both have melted out. The thin dob of ice on LH came off whilst trying to climb it and hit me on my thigh so I retreated. The stream is emerging in places on RH. This involved a bit of bare rock at the crux. Its a shame not more survived because what is there is immaculate. Lovely Alpine day with no wind. I disagree on the winter being rubbish. Its been short, but there have been far worse. There's not been much to climb apart from the most reliable routes, but there have been some brilliant days if you were lucky enough to be able to make the most of them.

In reply to Full moon addict:

Thanks for the latest update, really appreciated as I'm on my way up today. I agree that the conditions have been fantastic whilst they're there but the rubbish label I'm throwing out there is just regarding the duration. I was lucky enough to get a good session in.

In reply to olddirtydoggy:

i've uploaded some images of central gully RH so you can see what its like. previous photos in the gallery show conditions just 10 days previously.

https://johnfleetwood.smugmug.com/Mountainsfolder/LakeDistrict/Scafell/Grea...

In reply to Full moon addict:

Think we'll all have to move closer to the mountains so we can take advantage at short notice.

Ironically I got more winter climbing done 15 years ago when I lived in Milton Keynes.

In reply to Full moon addict:

Extremely useful, thanks very much!

In reply to olddirtydoggy:

So can I ask please is costs fully complete

In reply to Chris Huntington: topped out of gully no.2 on red tarn face at 9 a.m this morning in perfect conditions, neve was bomber, turf in the gully frozen solid as well as the ice on the ice step, not much of a cornice and solid neve from red tarn to the summit. Zero visibility but you can't have it all. Still plenty left to go at in Red Tarn Cove don't think it will be the same this afternoon though temps rising rapidly on the descent. Left the car at 7 and back for 10 not bad for a morning climb so late in the season.

In reply to Chris Huntington:

Conditions are thawing very fast as the sunshine and temps up here are way up on what they should be. A full day on Scafell Pike with just a baselayer on and no gloves as it was so warm was the order of the day. Lord Rake still has patchy snow either side of the gully but it's going fairly quick. No idea what Great End is like at the moment.
Lord's Rake Pic link>
http://imgur.com/D6QoOIy

Is anything is still in condition in lakes? Going for Easter weekend, but suppose I will be packing rock shoes.

In reply to nutme:

Gimmer was in great summer condition on Sunday!

In reply to Red Rover:
Helvellyn was still 'in' last week, holding the cold and neve with proviso things may have changed.

As cove stays out of sun the easy routes are 'probably' still fine.

Striding OK without ice gear, Swirral deffo not, did the round on Tuesday and crampons and axe certainly required.

Saw people on Friday in shorts and trainers...fortunately backed off, but many more were trying and more will have been there - and still accidents concurring, sadly http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-cumbria-35855383 -...it's still winter conditions on Swirral, crampons and axe.

Also saw two ladies skiing north face on Friday - impressive.

In reply to fritz:
Out on Helvellyn on Monday - lots of firm snow on Grey Tarn Face, 2 ducks seem to be living up there on the tarn happily, see them every time I'm up.

Rather better neve than in the Cairngorms last weekend amd still a bit of ice about. Climbed No2 by the left hand variation which was astonishingly good, probably better fettle than anything I did in Sneachda on Friday which was frankly a bit disappointing (but not the crossing to Ben Macdui and back between routes (Runnel and Central Gully, which was fantastic in the real sense of the word, as was Braeriach on Saturday)

Christened my nearly new Golden Eagle on the Helvellyn route and had a lovely slide down the snow bowl.

In reply to fritz:



This continues to astound me. I headed up Swirrel Edge a couple of weekends ago (incidentially to ski the north headwall to the tarn - fantastic skiing that I had wanted to get in condition for years!). I was wearing crampons for the top bit of the ridge through the cornice band, and would not have wanted to be there without. An individual coming down passed me in trainers and shorts. One slip there it would be very bad news - my father saw somebody killed there in similar circumstances last year.

I remain in two minds about this - it's all about personal choice, but I never quite know if one should say something. That said, making a comment to somebody already in the height of the dangerous bit doesn't really achieve anything.

In reply to James Jackson:
As you say, it's very much a dilemma as to what to say and I have been flamed on an online forum by people who want to let folks who are enjoying the hills be and feel the arguments have been well rehearsed. I do feel that with Swirral Edge though that the more education the better, preferably before people head out as it is frequently underestimated compared to its famous sister, and that bank of snow at the top has been particularly steep this year in my own opinion (of course the fell top assessor & mountain rescue stress this all the time and I'm preaching to the converted on here - and people in ' trainers' can be expert fell runners). I sometimes engage people in casual conversation on the summit which turns to what routes we are each taking and have gently dissuaded some folks who had thought Swirral was an easy way down into heading a different way, and hope that was the right thing to do. (I have lost a friend on Helvellyn so quite sensitive about the issues).

In reply to deugar:


Well exactly - I've been stopped up on the hills when fell-running to be told I was inappropriately equipped. I didn't mind as it was well-meant, they're not to know I've got years of winter mountaineering experience, and a similar chat with somebody else could avoid a serious incident.

In reply to Chris Huntington:
Aye I was actually eyeing up Striding Swirral as a return fell run later in week - after the swirral descent it was clearly a 'no flippin chance' (unless with crampons and axe of course) - and I'm bold - and old - confident and I hope competent.

On the Friday the wife met a Spanish lad who climbed backing off down Swirral after 'a brown trouser moment'.

Not an easy one - talking to folks that is