UKC

Can anyone offer some guidance on firstly, getting the best price (have access to buy as a student, so can save up to £300 off of the apple store prices but can I do better?) and secondly, which model out of these:

13-inch MacBook Pro with Retina display, 2.7GHz dual-core Intel Core i5, 8GB 1866MHz LPDDR3 memory

Prices vary dependent on HD size:

- 128GB PCIe-based flash storage - £859.20
- 256GB PCIe-based flash storage - £1,030.80
- 512GB PCIe-based flash storage (also has 2.9GHz dual-core Intel Core i5 processor) - £1,203.60

15-inch MacBook Pro with Retina display

- 2.2GHz quad-core Intel Core i7, 16GB 1600MHz memory, 256GB PCIe-based flash storage, Intel Iris Pro Graphics - £1,359.60
- 2.5GHz quad-core Intel Core i7, 16GB 1600MHz memory, 512GB PCIe-based flash storage, Intel Iris Pro Graphics
AMD Radeon R9 M370X with 2GB GDDR5 memory - £1,699.20

I appreciate that spec would depend on what I'll be using it for and this may vary. Initially it'll be for doing uni work on (incl. matlab, 2D CAD, software programming), but also general internet browsing and movie watching. I'd likely use it for processing video but I'd be lying if I said I did this very often. Will likely have to run windows virtual machines regularly. My gut feeling is that processor power probably won't be the issue, more RAM and hard drive space. Is there a more cost effective way of getting more hd space, e.g. cheap portable ssd drive?

I appreciate that Macs are expensive, I've always bought Windows laptops up to this day, which break after about 2 years and usually cost £300 odd, so if a Mac lasts 5 years like many of my friends have, then it should work out OK cost wise. I'm also just curious to see what it's like using Macs.

Thanks for any advice given on a laptop that will likely cost more than my currrent car. No Windows vs Mac debates please.

In reply to cha1n:

You are correct. You won't get cheaper than your HE discount. All the processors are fine. However new MBPs have soldered RAM so pay for the maximum (16Gb) rather than a faster processor.

Storage: get as big an SSD as you can but supplement with external storage. Although they are slower than SSDs you can get "stubby" SDcards for the side slot. I have a 512 Gb SSD and a 256Gb SD card in my retina MBP, which runs SPSS and Windows VMs happily side by side.

Macs are... Different to PCs so don't expect seamless transitions (although I have never regretted the switch of hardware taken a decade ago!)

Cheers

B

In reply to ben b:

Thanks Ben. Good to know not to bother trying to find them any cheaper elsewhere.

Worth noting that all the spec of the models above can be changed even more (only just spotted this). The processors, SSDs and memory can be increased. If anyone happens to know the best value configuration rather than me breaking out a spreadsheet then that'd be helpful!

In reply to cha1n:

I'd suggest, if you can be patient, waiting for the 2016 model refresh- newer processors, better battery life etc. Long overdue for the MacBook Pro.

If you're going to keep it five plus years, get the latest model...

In reply to Siward:

Thanks Siward, much appreciated. Only worry is that the refresh comes with refreshed prices!

In reply to cha1n:

prices probably wont change very much - so if you can hang on it may make sense.

(2008 MacBook, happily runs virtual PC, edits video etc.)

In reply to Dr.S at work:
Quite right - Apple keep the prices near enough identical year by year and slightly upgrade the specs each iteration, with major changes every 2-3 years.

Definitely get a retina one though; I thought the i5 with 16gb and a 512 SSD was the sweet spot for me but YMMV...

B

In reply to cha1n:

Thanks again, I'm sure waiting a few months won't matter too much, as I'm mainly using my work laptop at the moment and that's an i7 with 16gb of RAM, so not too bad but I don't like using it for personal stuff if I can help it.

In reply to cha1n:

Not trying to start a row, honestly, but what do you expect for £300? My last laptop (Windows) lasted 10 years, and only got upgraded because work was paying and it was hopelessly out of date. It did cost £1200 though, nearly as much as a Mac
If you spent the price of a Mac on a Windows laptop, you'd get similar performance and lifespan to the Mac.

In reply to cha1n:

fly to the states and buy it there.. you virtually pay $ for GBP's.. almost pays for the flight. Just bought a macbook air for 550 quid.

In reply to Hooo:

My last laptop was a 1 year old, Dell studio XPS. Retina display, i7 processor, etc. Over £1000 new. I've had it 2 years and it's recently started randomly turning off. I never really liked it from the start though. Heavy, poor battery life, fan always throttling.

I'm not going to say I hate windows or anything but I'm just intrigued to try the Mac OS for a bit.

In reply to Roadrunner5:

Interesting, we are about to book a holiday! U S keyboard may be irritating though.

In reply to cha1n:

>If anyone happens to know the best value configuration rather than me breaking out a spreadsheet then that'd be helpful!

Get the cheapest spec and then upgrade it yourself as apple RAM/Storage charges are absolutely criminal! Can most clearly be seen with iPhones. Difference between 16gb and 128gb is £160 yet difference to apple £25?

In reply to cha1n:

I have been using Macs for years - in fact I have never used anything else iirc.

I would say buy the most expensive machine with the biggest hard-drive and maximum RAM. Two or three years down the line you will be pleased you did.

The last MBP I had, I ran for four years then sold for over £450 on EBay - so you can see it as an investment!


Chris

In reply to Roadrunner5:


A quick look at US/UK pricing shows that not to be the case. Also US prices exclude sale tax's.
So as an example the cheapest MacBook Air is $899. Buying it in New York City you'd have to add 8.875% sales tax taking it to $980. Current tourist rates for $/£ is 1.4 giving a total cost of £699. Thats before you add on UK VAT and import duty for a total legal price of £900 ish

UK price of the above MacBook Air is £749.

In reply to Indy:


With the most modern MBP, you order the exact RAM and disk space you want. They are practically NOT upgradeable. RAM is soldered in and storage is SO proprietary (although pretty fast) that there are very few if any upgrade options.

The obsession with thinness and reduced size has been made at the expense of functionality. We are a completely MAC company, they work well and we have a large investment in bespoke software, but Apple have lost the plot as far as I am concerned and we have started to look at some Windows boxes. I suspect they make so much money from phones and tablets that mere computers and particularly OS X are seen as unimportant.

In reply to SouthernSteve:

I'd tend to echo this - likewise almost 100% mac. We avoid upgrading the OS until we absolutely have to as newer iterations tend to head more and more towards form rather than functionality "it's so thin...". While I still prefer this to the alternative "it's so heavy and appears to have been made by a 5-year old in their dads workshop out of plastic bits found lying around", Apple tests my tolerance!
This sums it up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbJSuduTrPs&list=RDvbJSuduTrPs#t=0

The modern mac computers are pretty much non-upgradeable (except for iMac RAM). Having said that, my MBP is >4 years old and shows no signs of needing replacing whatsoever. It's still a pleasure to use.
Definitely get a retina screen, get 16 G of RAM and as a big an SSD as you can. If you don't keep large music or video files on board, you will likely be fine with 512 G. I'd do the processor bump to 2.5 Ghz And I wouldn't bother with the the 13" display unless you are going to mostly be using it attached to an external monitor

In reply to Indy:

You don't have to pay sales tax, buy in Delaware.. But sales tax varies. Import tax? No one pays that on items you carry back. But yeah the US doesn't include sales tax but 9% is high. NH MO also have no sales tax. We do a lot of our shopping in DE. If you were buying a car you'd need to come back and pay when you register it but otherwise nobody pays.

I just paid 899 which is 620 quid..

Re import tax, just don't take receipts. Almost no one does on clothing, iPods, climbing gear etc bought abroad.

In reply to cha1n:

Lots of memory tends to make more difference to the user experience than going for the fastest CPU (I say that as someone who does a lot of cpu intensive science stuff). If you need more than 256BG of storage you almost certainly need more that 512GB, so stick with the 256GB and spend the saved cash on a fast 2TB external spinning disk for the big data, LaCie do some nice rugged Thunderbolt drives. External doesn't need to be SSD, spinning is fine. As a student the upgrade to a full 3 year warranty (Apple Care) is vey, very cheap. Absolutely buy this. I would get the 13", decided more by travel requirements than performance.

Beware that if you have good eyesight, once you go Retina every other display that you use is going to look dull and mushy. Also, almost every other laptop trackpad is going to suddenly seem very inferior.

In terms of Mac/Windows - not a debate but my views - personally I much prefer almost everything about the Mac except the lack of a right click keyboard button when I'm word processing. People differ. If you can use one, you can pick the other up in no time. The one thing that I really appreciate about Mac over Windows is the stability of the platform. Mac OS X has been a consistent base with gradual, progressive updates since 2001. In that time Windows has gone from the totally different Windows MEs and 2000 lines through to a unified XP through a big jolt to Vista, then all the radical changes of 8 and so on. I found the OS X platform to be more stable for development and Doing Stuff than Windows over that time (even when OS X had its total CPU architecture switch.)

In reply to Roadrunner5:

Tax evasion obviously ok then?

In reply to cha1n:

Wait for Intel's new skylake processors to be used. Buying anything with DDR3 ram is pointless as it will be obsolete. May as well wait for apple to start using the next standard which will be faster.

Also the newer processors will be lower power, so less heat so Matlab is less likely to kill your laptop. This is probably why you've been through two laptops a year.

Is the i5 they offer really dual core? That's pretty low spec for what your paying.

Autodesk don't recommend hyperthreading so don't pay for an i7 if you don't need it. As it will run faster without it. Don't know about the other software vendors.

In reply to Roadrunner5:



Might I suggest that getting to a 0% Sales Tax area is going to cost a shed load more than just paying the Sales Tax???

O.K so you paid £620 and evaded £115 in due UK taxes as opposed to paying £749. Happy with your limited American 1 year warranty? The UK ones get 2 years as standard.

BTW what happened to the £550 one?

In reply to Dr.S at work:

Is it?

If you buy something to use abroad do you pay tax? Have you ever bought abroad? And then not declared it. Almost everyone has. Or Is small scale tax evasion OK?

If I moved back to the UK would you pay tax?

Tbh yeah.

Do you pay import tax? Say you buy something abroad, have you paid taxes?

In reply to Indy:
I was £70 out, wasn't sure of the latest exchange rate,.. Likewise you were, you went with 1.4 when its 1.45, which is a sizeable amount of the best part of $1000..

It may cost more but it pays for a chunk of your flight.

If you are travelling soon, hold of and buy here.

Likewise I watches..

Generally as a rough guide its $ for £..

In reply to Indy:
http://www.dutycalculator.com/new-import-duty-and-tax-calculation/saved_calculations/view_details/199658188/

Indy according to this if you bought a MacBook air for 899 in DE it would cost totally £745 legally..slightly different to your £900..

When, if, I bring mine back Id use it here and not pay though. I never had on goods brought abroad. Many who complain about that will have also done this.. Buying clothes etc on US trips.

In reply to Roadrunner5:

Not having a go at you but as somebody who spends a fair amount of time in the US I get tired of people asking me to bring back X or Y because it's "half the price" when it's not.

You only pay taxes on stuff you bring back valued at over ( I think) £130.

In reply to Indy:
I think you pay VAT on everything.. Likewise I claim VAT back sometimes when I leave..

That website suggested on a 100 pair of trainers, you paid 12-13 quid VAT

Sortry that was bought online..


https://www.gov.uk/government/news/know-your-overseas-shopping-limits-this-...


Arriving in the UK by commercial sea or air transport from a non-EU country, you can bring in up to £390 worth of goods for personal use without paying customs duty or VAT (excluding tobacco and alcohol, which have separate allowances). Arriving by other means, including by private plane or boat for pleasure purposes, you can bring in goods up to the value of £270. Above these allowances and up to £630, there is a duty flat rate of 2.5 per cent.

In reply to cha1n:

If you are hell bent on buying a Mac, wait (as per reasons given in this thread). If you want a computer for doing serious work in a research environment, get a box that runs Linux.

Last week we have wasted more time than I care think about on trying to make a little program to analyze diffusion data run again after a Mac software upgrade. In the end we ported everythinbg to a Linux box.

Macs always used to be great for the dedicated end user (who did not even want to know what was going on below the user interface), but if you will be be using Matlab or R, and want to write small programs or scripts, they are a complete pain. It used to possible to work around without much effort, but this has gotten more difficult with every new OS generation.

I would at least make sure you have enough RAM and disk space to make your system double bootable right from the start.

On the other hand, Apple hardware is (or at least used to be) very good. I am typing this on a 7yo MacBook Pro that has been dropped or whacked around more than any other computer I ever had, and still had no major issues (one HD upgrade for capacity, not failure).

CB

In reply to Roadrunner5:






never bought anything of great value overseas, have paid duty when I've imported from the US.

a number of folk on this thread however appear to be advocating active tax avoidance

In reply to cb294:

I used to use *nix a fair bit 16-17 years ago and security would worry me slightly. Being open source, you'd constantly have to patch it or you certainly had to back then. I know that it's more mainstream with users now, so perhaps they have better systems for patching. It was also a right pain, with lots of what would be plug and play hw in Windows not working.

I'm looking for something that just works this time around and am quite keen to have a play on MacOS as I've never had a play.

Thank you and everyone else for your comments so far, it's definitely stopped me jumping straight in a making a mistake. I think I'll wait for the refresh and choose wisely.

In reply to cha1n:

Macs are great but I would tend to agree with one of the previous posts regarding software compatibility. While I love Linux and Mac OS if you are likely to be using cad I would recommend windows. Loads of software will only run on windows. You end up having to install a windows partition on your mac.

In reply to cha1n:

In that case you should have bought a Mac ten years ago, it is unbelievable how bad everything has become since then. You should definitely first check whether your uni can still buy software licenses for your computer. If I had to upgrade my lab computers now I would be faced with huge bills just for the Adobe suite alone, which I could buy via my University until last year, when I transferred to another department. Even as it is, IT tells me I need an OS upgrade for "security" reasons, MS tells me I need to upgrade office (fortunately I can still buy rather than lease that one), Endnote tells me my recently bought Endnote doesn't like my new MS Word.

As I said, make sure you can double boot right away.

CB

In reply to cha1n:

I would say that you were unlucky with your Dell, and certainly the new Dell laptops are actually thinner than a MBP. The new XPS 13 is on the A-list with PC Pro magazine. The last recommended laptop I bought that was in that position was a Samsung that I still use approximately 7-8 years ago. Since getting on the A-list the XPS 13 has come out with a 1 Tb SSD hard drive version(which is expensive,but no more expensive than Mac Book Pro and probably a little less.). I am contemplating buying it as the Samsung hard drive is virtually full. I am typing this on my other laptop, a Mac Book Pro 15 which is about 6 years old which I like for the touch pad and I like the screen, but the retina version was not around when I bought this.Yet I am quite happy with the view that I get. I would not be bothered about the screen, it is a luxury.
If you are a student, then you are going to be moving around a lot and therefore it is probably safer and easier to buy the 13", and if need be buy a separate monitor when you have a little more cash or have it as a Christmas present.
I would look carefully at both the Dell XPS and the Mac Book Pro, but the reports on the Windows machine is good.

In reply to cb294:
There is a X7.5 update which should fix the Endnote CWYW issues

In reply to SouthernSteve:

Thanks, will try this if the issue comes up again.

CB

In reply to Dr.S at work:

If you use it abroad before import you are not importing new goods, therefore no tax is due, it's only due on new articles.

In reply to Gael Force:

Do you really think that the taxman is that stupid????

In reply to Roadrunner5:


It has to be 6 months old before you bring it back into the UK to avoid VAT, which I know to our cost when my son brought on back

In reply to cha1n:

Went through the 13 inch MacBook Pro vs Windows laptop debate very recently, went for the Mac and couldn't be happier.

Went for the 256gb hd, (having previously had 500gb), need to use an external hdd for music (no change there though). I now use cloud storage and find it meets my needs perfectly.

I mostly use my laptop for work, including running office etc, as well as sketchup pro. Works like a dream, although a little lag when creating 3D animations, but I'm not sure if this is due to sketchup or the Mac not quite coping, but it's hardly noticeable either way.

The only thing I found a pain was needing to buy a new external hdd and mess around with the formatting to allow both the Mac and PC to read/write to the drive. Oh, and the fact there's no cd/DVD drive built in...

All in all, would I go for the Mac again? Without a doubt.

Hope this helps

In reply to cha1n:

http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Mac

Useful site

.... but unfortunately it doesn't appear to be a good time to buy a Mac laptop!

Alan

In reply to cha1n:



There lies the root of many a mac vs windows discussion! Macs are great for certain things, but so are other computers of similar price.

We have one at work bought for a specific project, it's a pain for cad ect, similar to your uni work, so much we dont bother. For general media consumption and email it's great, so it tends to get used as a take away pc for conferences.

As an alternative, I had a Toshiba business machine that was hard as nails and lasted years, it landed on my foot once and caused me more damage..... not sure if the build quality is still is good, the new one is cheaper (IT budget down).

In reply to Mike Stretford:

Indeed so - but to get a Windows machine of similar quality you have to pay the same sort of money as a Mac. Which makes sense, as Macs are PCs in a fancy box with a different OS.

In reply to Neil Williams: Yeah, same with phones.

In reply to Neil Williams:

Similar hardware is available a bit cheaper as apple can charge a premium. That said with the deals they do for students macs aren't uncompetitive and they are undeniably well designed.

In reply to stella1:
Not massively so. I ended up with a Mac because there were, at the time I bought it, precisely no full-HD screen Windows ultrabooks on the market whatsoever (and even so, the Retina screen is better than full HD) - but even once there were the price range hovers around the price of the Mac. So I bought a Mac with a view to running Windows on it, but then found I get on reasonably with Mac OS.

Might switch back with my next machine, though; 10 looks decent.

In reply to Indy:

I've no idea re taxman, but I think it's customs you mean when taking goods back , and I don't know how they would check if you don't have the receipt on you. Nor would they be interested in a computer unless it was still in the packaging.