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http://www.theecologist.org/News/news_analysis/2987185/war_crime_israel_des...
I just stumbled across this, and found it rather shocking.
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In reply to Timmd:
Par for the course. No doubt a couple of guys called Mike will be along soon to defend this.
Par for the course. No doubt a couple of guys called Mike will be along soon to defend this.
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In reply to Jon Stewart:
Comments on it can seem a bit empty, I just wanted to bring attention to it.
Comments on it can seem a bit empty, I just wanted to bring attention to it.
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In reply to Timmd:
Nothing surprises me with regards to the Israeli state.
What shocks me is that they continue to get away with whatever they want.
Nothing surprises me with regards to the Israeli state.
What shocks me is that they continue to get away with whatever they want.
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In reply to winhill:
What's that go to do with it?
It wouldn't make it justifiable...or do you think it would?
One person launches an attack, so they destroy another person's crops....
> So how many Palestinian attacks have there been on the border since October?
What's that go to do with it?
It wouldn't make it justifiable...or do you think it would?
One person launches an attack, so they destroy another person's crops....
Post edited at 15:58
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In reply to Timmd:
Palestinians have killed 26 people on the Israeli side and wounded dozens more since mid-September, mostly in stabbings, shootings and vehicular assaults. Israeli fire has killed 150 Palestinians during that time, with 105 identified by Israel as attackers. The rest died in clashes.
http://www.usnews.com/
As far as deaths from IEDs concealed in crops, the answer is 0, although IEDs have been found.
> What's that go to do with it?
> It wouldn't make it justifiable...or do you think it would?
> One person launches an attack, so they destroy another person's crops....
Palestinians have killed 26 people on the Israeli side and wounded dozens more since mid-September, mostly in stabbings, shootings and vehicular assaults. Israeli fire has killed 150 Palestinians during that time, with 105 identified by Israel as attackers. The rest died in clashes.
http://www.usnews.com/
As far as deaths from IEDs concealed in crops, the answer is 0, although IEDs have been found.
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In reply to winhill:
Palestinians are very very poor. Destroying crops will make them even poorer. There's a reasonable chance that the destruction of their livelihood will enrage some farmers to the point where they feel violence is their only option - simply trying to get on with their own lives doesn't seem to be enough. The Israeli state constantly bullies the Palestinians, with the tacit support of the USA - Palestinian attacks on the border are the price the Israelis pay for that bullying.
> So how many Palestinian attacks have there been on the border since October?
Palestinians are very very poor. Destroying crops will make them even poorer. There's a reasonable chance that the destruction of their livelihood will enrage some farmers to the point where they feel violence is their only option - simply trying to get on with their own lives doesn't seem to be enough. The Israeli state constantly bullies the Palestinians, with the tacit support of the USA - Palestinian attacks on the border are the price the Israelis pay for that bullying.
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In reply to tony:
>The Israeli state constantly bullies the Palestinians
Yes, this. Why do they keep doing it?
>The Israeli state constantly bullies the Palestinians
Yes, this. Why do they keep doing it?
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In reply to aln:
It's what bullies do.
And, they'll claim that the existence of a Palestinian state is an existential threat to the state of Israel, given the support for Palestine from most of its Middle Eastern neighbours. It's a shame they don't also recognise that the state of Israel is an existential threat to Palestinians, and whereas Palestinians have crude IEDS and knife attacks, Israel has some of the most potent armed forces in the world. It's not quite a fair fight - I suspect the attitudes of both sides would be a bit different if it were less unfair.
> >The Israeli state constantly bullies the Palestinians
> Yes, this. Why do they keep doing it?
It's what bullies do.
And, they'll claim that the existence of a Palestinian state is an existential threat to the state of Israel, given the support for Palestine from most of its Middle Eastern neighbours. It's a shame they don't also recognise that the state of Israel is an existential threat to Palestinians, and whereas Palestinians have crude IEDS and knife attacks, Israel has some of the most potent armed forces in the world. It's not quite a fair fight - I suspect the attitudes of both sides would be a bit different if it were less unfair.
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In reply to Timmd:
He was growing IED'S!!!!! "Improvised exploding dandelions" he he he. I tenner my time in Northern Ireland and we landed a lynx in a farmers field and left ski marks in the grass!! He claimed thousands of the MOD! Oops 😬
He was growing IED'S!!!!! "Improvised exploding dandelions" he he he. I tenner my time in Northern Ireland and we landed a lynx in a farmers field and left ski marks in the grass!! He claimed thousands of the MOD! Oops 😬
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In reply to drunken monkey:
This is why:
> What shocks me is that they continue to get away with whatever they want.
This is why:
> U.S. support for Israel emerges in several ways: financial, military and diplomatic. While most Americans believe that U.S. foreign aid goes to the poorest people in the poorest countries, Israel (wealthier than a number of European Union member countries) receives 25 percent of the entire U.S. foreign aid budget. Since 1976 Israel has been the highest recipient of U.S. foreign aid in the world. The congressional aid comes to about $1.8 billion a year in military aid and $1.2 billion in economic aid, plus another $1 billion or so in miscellaneous grants, mostly in military supplies, from various U.S. agencies. Tax-exempt contributions destined to Israel bring up the total to over $5 billion annually. - See more at: http://www.endtheoccupation.org/article.php?id=173#sthash.L9qh5ZMh.dpuf
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In reply to Big Ger: wonder why the usa choose Israel. Is it to cold war related? They simply picked the opposite side to ussr? The numbers are simply staggering
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In reply to tony:
This is sloppy and stupid, do you mean Gazans or Palestinians?
Palestinians have been getting rich around the world for a long time, the wealthy, the professional classes, the bourgeoisie left Israel for richer climes decades ago (and very quickly after Israel was established, knowing that the Arabs would rush to war).
http://www.richincomeways.com/luxury/top-ten-richest-people-of-palestine-in...
But Gazans, yup you can still get you horse schooled in private stables,
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3308/gaza-millionaires
(This israeli Arab hates Hamas and the PA, so he's talking about just Hamas millionaires really here)
There's still old money
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8608376.stm
> Palestinians are very very poor.
This is sloppy and stupid, do you mean Gazans or Palestinians?
Palestinians have been getting rich around the world for a long time, the wealthy, the professional classes, the bourgeoisie left Israel for richer climes decades ago (and very quickly after Israel was established, knowing that the Arabs would rush to war).
http://www.richincomeways.com/luxury/top-ten-richest-people-of-palestine-in...
But Gazans, yup you can still get you horse schooled in private stables,
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3308/gaza-millionaires
(This israeli Arab hates Hamas and the PA, so he's talking about just Hamas millionaires really here)
There's still old money
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8608376.stm
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In reply to winhill:
Israel is ranked 35th in the world for per capita income of about $33,000.
Palestine is ranked 128th, with a per capita income of $4900.
> This is sloppy and stupid, do you mean Gazans or Palestinians?
Israel is ranked 35th in the world for per capita income of about $33,000.
Palestine is ranked 128th, with a per capita income of $4900.
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In reply to goldmember:
Wow. Were you off sick the day they did 20th century history?
> wonder why the usa choose Israel. Is it to cold war related? They simply picked the opposite side to ussr?
Wow. Were you off sick the day they did 20th century history?
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In reply to tony:
Following on from that point, as a thought experiment imagine how it might be if the military capabilities were reversed. We know what the situation is like currently, while Israel has the overwhelming and asymmetric power, but what would it be like if it was the other way around? If you could 'play god' and take the nuclear weapons, the airforce, the ground forces etc from the Israelis and give them to for example, Hamas, how do you think it would play out?
> Israel has some of the most potent armed forces in the world. It's not quite a fair fight - I suspect the attitudes of both sides would be a bit different if it were less unfair.
Following on from that point, as a thought experiment imagine how it might be if the military capabilities were reversed. We know what the situation is like currently, while Israel has the overwhelming and asymmetric power, but what would it be like if it was the other way around? If you could 'play god' and take the nuclear weapons, the airforce, the ground forces etc from the Israelis and give them to for example, Hamas, how do you think it would play out?
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In reply to aln:
Hi, sorry, bit late to the party; what have the little scamps done now?
> Par for the course. No doubt a couple of guys called Mike will be along soon to defend this.
Hi, sorry, bit late to the party; what have the little scamps done now?
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In reply to BRUCESTRAC:
I need to do some research on this, do you have a link, please?
> On quite a few sites the whole Israeli/USA Zionist plot is exposed...
I need to do some research on this, do you have a link, please?
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In reply to Dave Garnett:
School must have been too busy teaching about Ww1 and boar wars.
Anywhere I can read a balanced history?
School must have been too busy teaching about Ww1 and boar wars.
Anywhere I can read a balanced history?
In reply to goldmember:
(The lengthened shadow of a man
Is history, said Emerson
Who had not seen the silhouette
Of Sweeney straddled in the sun).
Mick
(The lengthened shadow of a man
Is history, said Emerson
Who had not seen the silhouette
Of Sweeney straddled in the sun).
Mick
In reply to Mick Ward:
Mr Kurtz, he dead.....
> (The lengthened shadow of a man
> Is history, said Emerson
> Who had not seen the silhouette
> Of Sweeney straddled in the sun).
> Mick
You really like your Eliot Mick, me tooMr Kurtz, he dead.....
In reply to paul_in_cumbria:
He sure was...
Sorry, just couldn't resist the Sweeney quote; it says so much about how we perceive history.
Yeats, 'The Scholars', making much the same point:
'Lord, what would they say
Did their Catullus walk that way?'
Mick
He sure was...
Sorry, just couldn't resist the Sweeney quote; it says so much about how we perceive history.
Yeats, 'The Scholars', making much the same point:
'Lord, what would they say
Did their Catullus walk that way?'
Mick
In reply to ChrisBrooke:
I'd wager on total obliteration of Israel.
> Following on from that point, as a thought experiment imagine how it might be if the military capabilities were reversed. We know what the situation is like currently, while Israel has the overwhelming and asymmetric power, but what would it be like if it was the other way around? If you could 'play god' and take the nuclear weapons, the airforce, the ground forces etc from the Israelis and give them to for example, Hamas, how do you think it would play out?
I'd wager on total obliteration of Israel.
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In reply to ChrisBrooke:
I think we all know the kind of insane genocide in the name of religion that would result, if tomorrow this was to happen. But I fail to see how this is instructive other than to connive a dishonest moral comparison between sides. I know that those who support Israel like to believe that the bonkers, fundamentalist, violent view of Hamas are intrinsic to Arab Muslims, and that regardless of their treatment they would be hellbent on the destruction of Israel, but I don't think it's true. I think that if people of any race or religion are given their rights, their dignity, and have sufficient resources to live decent lives then they tend not to turn into genocidal maniacs.
> If you could 'play god' and take the nuclear weapons, the airforce, the ground forces etc from the Israelis and give them to for example, Hamas, how do you think it would play out?
I think we all know the kind of insane genocide in the name of religion that would result, if tomorrow this was to happen. But I fail to see how this is instructive other than to connive a dishonest moral comparison between sides. I know that those who support Israel like to believe that the bonkers, fundamentalist, violent view of Hamas are intrinsic to Arab Muslims, and that regardless of their treatment they would be hellbent on the destruction of Israel, but I don't think it's true. I think that if people of any race or religion are given their rights, their dignity, and have sufficient resources to live decent lives then they tend not to turn into genocidal maniacs.
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In reply to tony:
So we get stabby with anyone above us based on GDP?
Qatar's always way ahead of anyone else, they gonna get slaughtered.
> Israel is ranked 35th in the world for per capita income of about $33,000.
> Palestine is ranked 128th, with a per capita income of $4900.
So we get stabby with anyone above us based on GDP?
Qatar's always way ahead of anyone else, they gonna get slaughtered.
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In reply to tony:
Again, absolutely incredible.
In 1948 Israel beat a force of 4 Arab countries, in 1967 it beat a force of 13 Arab countries and in 1973 it beat a force of 9 Arab countries.
> It's not quite a fair fight - I suspect the attitudes of both sides would be a bit different if it were less unfair.
Again, absolutely incredible.
In 1948 Israel beat a force of 4 Arab countries, in 1967 it beat a force of 13 Arab countries and in 1973 it beat a force of 9 Arab countries.
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