UKC

If Britain leaves Europe how seriously will this impact on British ex pats who have made their homes in EU countries? There must be over 1M of them - there are 800,000 in Spain alone. There is a potential for these people, most of them retired, to be seriously hit.

Presumably they will no longer be entitled to vote or stand in local elections whereby they can try to look after the rights of the local ex pat communities, they will cease to qualify for free health services in their adopted countries and maybe their UK pensions will be frozen?

Whilst Britain can attempt to renegotiate terms for remaining in, would it be possible , or even feasible, to negotiate terms for leaving so as to protect the interests of ex pats? There must be some reciprocation issues with EU ex pats living in Britain.

It could all get very messy.

Al Evans. If you read this, what is your take and that of the ex pat community living in Spain?

In reply to Trangia:

I'd be interested in this as well. My brother lives in the Czech Republic with his Czech wife and their daughter. His view is that is the UK leaves, he will bin his UK passport and get a Czech one as he feels that gives the best protection for keeping his family together, and keeping his job. He does tend to focus on negative aspects though, but I do wonder if that is a realistic view. Unknown times ahead.

In reply to Trangia:

As someone living & working in France I'm concerned about the possible consequences, and although I'll be more effected than most, I'll have no vote. But I wouldn't describe myself as part of an ex pat community - I know very few Brits here in Paris although I know there are lots of us.

If the UK leaves the UK I guess I either wait for Scotland to be independent & re-join the EU or try & get French citizenship. And all this over what's in reality an internal party split of little interest to most outside the party, either in the UK or elsewhere in the EU. Surely the EU heads of state have better things to do than spend days sorting out Cameron's self imposed problems ?

In reply to Trangia:

The logical thing to do would be leave things as they are for people who are already either over here or over there, maybe some sort of one off lifetime visa.
The majority of ex pat's are pensioners I would assume so most won't be around in30/40 year's anyway and the problem goes away then.
Younger people can apply for dual citizenship.

In reply to Trangia:

As an Aussie citizen expat I'm glad that I imported a German wife, held onto my
UK passport... Oh and the Canadian passport balances my chi...


LD

In reply to Trangia:

'Ex-pats' is a word - and a concept - I detest. If you go and live somewhere, then that's where you live.


That's a matter for the UK government; it has nothing to do any current 'negotiations.'

In reply to Trangia:

i'm hoping they'll agree to some sort of status quo arrangement where those of us who live abroad can remain but even that becomes difficult because (a) it will only last for as long as it lasts and can always get changed later and (b) i wonder how complete it will be (ie will it include healthcare, what happens to pension agreements etc).

I have an English friend who would have no problem applying for Spanish citizenship. I'd be a bit hesitant about changing nationality & i can't fully explain why.

In reply to Lurking Dave:


BMW or Audi?

In reply to Trangia:

British people used to live abroad before the UK joined the EU, you know.

In reply to John2:


And, of course, people also live in non-EU countries but the hassle levels are significantly higher.

In reply to John2:

Well, quite. and many live outside the EU today. But for those of us who chose to live in an EU country, partly because of the ease and freedom of movement then the UK pulling out of the EU could be a pain in the hole.

In reply to Lurking Dave:


What was the customs duty payable?

In reply to John2:


Of course they did, but you are missing the point completely. See TobyA's response at 12.53

In reply to Bob Hughes:

I agree that the conditions under which people originally moved to EU countries would change if Brexit occurred, but it's too early to say what the consequences would be. Maybe British people would need to take out health insurance as they do if they move to Switzerland, maybe a reciprocal health care system would continue to exist. But a move to a foreign country is a major undertaking, and it's unrealistic to expect things to stay the same for ever. It might even be that a reciprocal health care system is maintained which gives British people living in EU countries a better standard of care than they would obtain under our fast-declining NHS.

In reply to Trangia:

I suspect that (with the exception of the French) it would all be relatively straightforwards. The British Citizens living abroad would become permanent residents of their respective countries and could either retain that status or apply for citizenship of said country. As a permanent resident you generally recieve the same benefits as any citizen with the exception of being able to vote.

Becoming a citizen of another country does not remove you from citizenship of the UK (duel nationality).

Most western countries have reciprocal ageeements on pensions.

In reply to John2:

The whole point of the free movement aspect of the EU is to make moving to another country within the EU not a major undertaking. This system broadly works, to the advantage of many british individuals and businesses, hence why a lot of people are not too keen on leaving.

The statement from outers that, "well we could work something out that would get around x problem, specifics to come on exit" is not very satisfying to a lot of us who are perfectly happy with the current system.

In reply to Trangia:

That's what I hate about expats! They are still entiled the our nhs although they live abroad.....if you move out of the U.K. For more that 3 yrs you should by right surrender your British passport and don't moan to us when your in the shit! You made the decision to move abroad.. I know the nhs are looking into making expats pay for any treatment they may need if they come to the uk to visit

In reply to John2:


My parents are currently living in Munich. My Dad had passed out and bashed his face in the other night. He arrived in hospital at 1.30am, and was given a 500ml bottle of water. No one checked up on him until the morning. They then told him they wanted to give him an ultrasound. They messed him around, keeping him waiting all day and then finally sending him round in circles to get the test. By 4pm he'd still had nothing more to eat and drink, fed up of being messed around, he left. My parents are longing for our NHS. They think the very expensive German health care system is awful.

In reply to Taff2509:

Even though they may have paid tax and national insurance for many years, and continue to do so despite moving abroad? Also you don't stop becoming a citizen of a country because you don't live there, they may not be a citizen of where they live, so they would have no citizenship under your proposal. Also your statement isn't necessarily true, other than for emergency procedures. You really haven't thought this through, and you sound really bitter.

In reply to dsh:

They need to look into these befor moving abroad?? Just because you pay tax and national insurance for 20+years whey should you come back into the uk for treatment??? In my eyes you sold your property quit jobs to move out so your tax and national insurance stops and so the free health care... I don't think I am bitter at all, immigrants have to pay for treatment under the new government law

In reply to John2:


Yes it was collectively known as , The British Empire, strangely they were mostly less than welcome ' visitors' , and most of them have since been turfed out

In reply to Taff2509:

you really don't know much about this do you?

In reply to Doug:

Yes because I am moving out to Canada next year. As the wife has been offered a better job! So we had had to apply for Canadian citerzship, passports etc etc... Don't come cheap

In reply to Taff2509:

but the whole idea of freedom of movement in the EU is that if you want to work in another country for a few years, you don't have to change nationality, etc. I have a colleague at work who's worked in 4 EU countries in the last 10 years - should she have had to change nationality each time ?

In reply to Taff2509:


Right and I live in the US with my American wife, but I am a permanent resident and not a citizen, I am a British Citizen. If you took away my citizenship I would not be a citizen anywhere. Also I might want to move back some day, we are just in the US now. I can't even get US citizenship until I have lived here for at least 3 years. What does my British Citizenship have to do with any of that? I also can't just come back to the UK with no residency and be like right, treat me on the NHS now, I would have to become a resident again, the same as anyone else. So you seem quite misinformed.

In reply to Taff2509:

I make voluntary NI contributions actually, until we are certain we are not moving back I will continue to do so. I know a lot of other Expats do the same.

In reply to Taff2509:


S'funny, Cos I've lived in Canada for 8 years and I'm not a citizen and I don't have a Canadian passport.

In reply to Removed User:

Ahh but do you have citerzship? :P

In reply to TobyA:


Not sure about that. I've lived in two, Switzerland, and Finland before it joined the EU and I don't think there was any more hassle - most European countries had all sorts of reciprocal agreements with each other that covered much of what is now covered by the EU freedom of movement rules.

In reply to dsh:

No, but then you have to pass an English (or French) test to get it

In reply to Taff2509:

Did you have a bad experience with the NHS?
Was it perhaps a brain operation that went wrong?

Good luck in Canada.

In reply to Jim C:


What utter rubbish!

In reply to Dave:

I was half thinking of you when I wrote it: didn't you say you couldn't buy property when you first moved to Finland? I still got a police interrogation before getting a residence permit in 96, even though they were meant to have stopped doing it by then!

In reply to Big Ger:

What is inaccurate in that ?

Albeit, it's fair to say there were also a lot of our 'criminal' elements foisted on those abroad
( no one put a time period on the Ex Pat discussion)

In reply to TobyA:
Am I right in thinking non Danes can't buy property in Denmark?

In reply to toad:


That may be, but unlikely to apply to anyone granted permanent residence status. I suspect any law like that would be to prevent foreign ownership by absentees.

In reply to Taff2509:


I can't believe you are being serious? You are either a troll or a desperately unrealistic, sad and bitter person. There are no rules about here you should have to live when paying your National Insurance and as the EU was a legitimate option it is a situation which should be honoured, or do you not believe in honour?

In reply to Taff2509:


Are you sure you've applied for citizenship? most countries in Europe want you to have been either resident for several years &/or have family ties & I suspected Canada would be the same, &

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/become-eligibility.asp suggests it is

"You must have been physically present in Canada as a permanent resident for at least 1,460 days during the six years immediately before the date of your application."

In reply to Trangia: im pretty certain I'll take up Norwegian citizenship as i dont need a new raft of paperwork to sort out. Ivehad to 'import' a non-EU worked into Norway and it wasnt pretty.

Taff will be in a catch 22 under his own rules. No benefits or healthcare at home , nor in his new domicile as he'll be a filty immigrant scroungers gone to steal a job. I seehe's going because his wife has a job - i hope he doesn't plan to just sit around

In reply to Rob Parsons:


Except that quite often a country will want you for the job you're doing there, but not want you to be there permanently. When the job's over or you can no longer do it, you're out. They don't just give away citizenship to anyone. Sometimes not even if you were born there and lived there for decades...

Ptrobably more applicable to non-EU countries, though.

In reply to Trangia:

I see little change.

Pensioners - the country they are gains their money. Many when ill return the UK too, it's win win. Often people are entitled to healthcare because they apply for permanent residency based on having the funds to support themselves, not because of an EU right. The medical passport thing E111(is it still that?) is for short trips, holidays etc.. and isn't valid if you are permanently residing in another country, 180 days or more is often the rule.

Workers - the UK doesn't export many unskilled workers, it's the educated talent that heads abroad as that is what is missing in the respective country they head to. In or out of the EU does not change the demand for the work. Different parts of the process could become easier or harder, double taxation rules are blessing, but often also a curse etc.. So it's likely to be 6 and 2 threes for workers.

In reply to Taff2509:


I especially ates those explats who spend so long elsewhere them can't spell and punctuate English proper like.

In reply to dsh:


full pension, it's a good investment.