UKC

Never been into this corrie before. Approach appears to be on avalanche prone aspects but it's pretty low down (certainly below 800m). With the current avalanche forecast, is there scope to approach the crag whilst avoiding potentially dangerous slopes?

In reply to Brian Pollock:

I'd say it would depend what you're approaching. Climbs accessed from the terrace below East Buttress, Pas de Dex, Clonus, etc, etc should be okay if you can scramble up the broken rambly ground (about grade I) below the terrace. I seem to recall that this starts quite low so should be okay to get onto?

By contrast I've seen pretty major debris below Taxus, West Gully and the broad fan below them, so I'd stear clear of that area as an approach to things like Skraeling or Taxus. It might however be possible to get across to things like Femme Fatale and Circean from the left? These don't top out and are just a scramble down.

In reply to Brian Pollock:

I agree with Jamie, maybe caution on descent back into Coire, that will be pretty loaded, wet snow underneath.

A friend was in there Thursday, saturated snowpack, turf thawing, snowing heavily. I also experienced very similar conditions on Arran, same day, though without the wind and snow! Everything was super frozen on Arran on Monday, pity......

Noticed in Logbooks you did Antichrist but finished up Promised Land? Sounds to me like you repeated Deliverance VI,6, which overlaps in middle pitch with Antichrist, was there much ice in that top pitch (awesome climbing)?

Regards

Stuart

In reply to Jamie B:

The slope above that band of crag under Clonus, Menage a Trois etc is pretty steep and faces N ish - it could go under certain conditions I'd think.

In reply to Stuart the postie:

Top pitch was thin at the bottom but got fatter and definitely climbable. Got 2 solid screws in. We did the first pitch and a half of Antichrist stepping left to the promised land finish rather than traverse right. Great wee route. Probably more like VI 6.

Thinking of the mixed near cirrus at dothaidh. Wondering if it will have gathered too much powder if sheltered from the westerlies though. Could go into Dorain again as a plan B.

Any other recommendations for VI / VII ish mixed in the southern highlands where we can avoid dodgey slopes?

In reply to Brian Pollock:

Hi Brian,

Aye sounds like Deliverance (read All go on Socach, Scottishwinter), we did that and Antichrist over a weekend last season. I do think this is a more logical line, to reach ice in chimney, than following guide description for Promised Land. This ice is what it's all about anyway!

The Prophet's really good, more sustained/technically harder than Messiah, only needs frozen turf.

The Cobbler's the obvious choice, not sure how frozen it'll be though? North Rib Route or R/Angled Gully Direct, though not VI or VII, would offer climbing if 'less than frozen', which I suspect.

Would be interested to hear if you're out tomorrow or Tuesday, I'm hoping to play on Wednesday?

Thanks

Stuart

In reply to Stuart the postie:

Ah, sounds like it. It definitely felt like the most logical line and we were definitely aiming for the ice. Makes the route.

Might have a look at the Prophet, looks like a good line. Went up to do it a few weeks ago and found the place black and dripping. Hopefully it will be cold enough tomorrow with freezing level at 600m.

I'll post up to let you know how it's looking.

In reply to LakesWinter:

Good point, it's not a big expanse but under hair-trigger conditions I wouldn't trust it. All advice comes with disclaimer and health-warning! Increasingly I just avoid those aspects completely if they're flagged as Considerable or above. Instructors and other regulars are very good at justifying "dragon's mouth" approaches because they've been there before, they know a way through, etc, etc. Heuristic traps all - I'm just starting to teach myself (and my clients) out of this mindset.

In reply to LakesWinter:

I agree on the avalanche potential for the crag apron under Cirrus, especially in the lee of that crest just underneath Menage a Trois. Those little crags underneath would also make for a nasty runout...

NMM

In reply to Northern Mountain Monkey:

Yeh, that's what I was thinking of...

In reply to Stuart the postie:

Stuart, we went into Creag an Socach today. The crag was in perfect condition, well rimed in the morning, bomber turf and helpful neve and ice toward the top. It was a mostly very dry clear day, barely any wind for the most part and the sun was out. The sun stripped most of the rime in the afternoon and there was quite a lot of ice falling off the crag as we collected our bags from the base of the route. Looks cold this evening and tomorrow though so the turf / ice should still be solid I would think. The ice on Messiah, Promised Land and False Rumour Gully looked well formed and I can only imagine that will consolidate with a freeze overnight.

We did the Prophet. It's a great route, probably the most memorable route I've done there this year. I would agree it is a step up from Messiah and certainly more serious. Thoroughly enjoyed it though, especially p2 and 3. Could be 3 stars with one more pitch like those.

In reply to Brian Pollock:

Many thanks

Stuart

In reply to Brian Pollock:

Did you get a look at Creag Coire an Dothaidh?

In reply to Dan Bailey - UKHillwalking.com:

Yeah, looked very white and I imagine there must be some good ice on it based on the conditions on Creag an Sochach. I'm pretty sure I saw a team on something but couldn't tell you what.

In reply to Dan Bailey - UKHillwalking.com:

Walked in there on Sunday. Didn't actually climb anything but was impressed by the ice given that the crag only seemed to be 100m or so above the snow line! Fahrenheit 451 looked great. Looked like fat ice high on the route, less lower down but from what I could see I think it would all be climbable.

In reply to Brian Pollock:

Brilliant, thanks

In reply to Stuart Hurworth:

Thanks Stuart

In reply to Brian Pollock:

Just a wee update on Creag Coire an Dothaidh and Creag an Socach from today for those interested.
Busy corrie today with teams on The Promised Land, possibly Antichrist, Second Coming, False Rumour Gully over at Creag an Socach, conditions reported as good. Over on Creag Coire an Dothaidh a team I believe climbed a thinnish looking Fahrenheit 451 with a team backing off of Salamander Gully. We backed off Cool Riders, turf nowhere near frozen and snow pure crud. Pretty warm in the sunshine today, lots of sloughs of snow at the base of crag as well as what looked like avalanche debris and a pretty obvious crown wall coming off the very South-West end of Creag an Socach.

In reply to Lamb:

I was the one on Promised Land, friends climbed Deliverance, a sociable outing!

Having visited this crag on a number of occasions, spanning 20+ years, only once before had I seen enough ice in top chimney, for an ascent - and it was fatter today (thanks Brian)! For S Highlands aficionardos, a good time to visit, if you're on the VI's!!

Travelling conditions underfoot are good, snow seems stable with a deep crust in descent. Too sunny today for routes on other side of coire, agreed.

Good stuff

Stuart

In reply to Lamb:

good conditions today with high cloud preventing the sun from doing its worst. climbed farenheit 451 which was thin and cruddy in places but fat on all the steep bits and good fun at a steady IV. Then climbed false rumour gulley which was great sport at around tech 6, rather lean giving 3 distinct overhanging sections! there is good neve around and turf is all frozen on the crags

In reply to Webster:

False Rumour Gully is awesome, my first ever grade IV lead. Have since done it a few more times, even climbed both this and Eas Annie, on the same day!!

Stuart

In reply to Stuart the postie:

If you could tell us that that link-up was done without support from a car....then I'd be impressed!

Must have been feeling athletic that day!

In reply to Stuart the postie:

have you ever found it in grade IV condition? im struggling to picture just how much snow and ice woulr be required to make it 4!

In reply to Webster:

It did look sporting yesterday. Twice I've placed screws in first pitch, left wall well formed. Did it in similar nick as yesterday, sans screws, rock gear in right wall.

Climbing left wall under giant chockstones, good gear, will always be technical.

I would guess IV,5 for average conditions.

Stuart

In reply to Brian Pollock:

Sorry for the slight diversion off topic but can anyone here give a steer as to Cobbler conditions? Anyone know if the mixed buttresses have been stripped by this week's sun? Cheers, D.

In reply to DannyC:

I don't know for sure but I suspect they have been. There hasn't been much wind since last week, the sun has been blazing and those buttresses are fickle.

In reply to DannyC:

I was on the Cobbler yesterday, the North Peak looked black and dry, the north face of the South Peak still looked as if it was holding some snow/frost/rime. The forecast sun never appeared yesterday morning, but it was dry with very little wind, the low grade gullies were in decent nick and there was quite a lot of riming on the summit arete, which was dry and 'tinkly' if that helps.

In reply to drmarten and Brian Pollock:

Thanks both, very helpful. D.

In reply to Brian Pollock:

Went in to NE Corrie on Sat and did Ménage a Trois (great route!). There was some debris about that looked like it was from earlier in the week but the approach to this righthand section of the crag was okay, with care, following the rockiest line direct to the base. The descent is fine, as you can curl around the ridge back to the bags. Footprints appeared showing that someone did West Gully, which I personally wouldn't have really fancied but obviously they were fine. The crag was in fantastic condition. Very icy.

D.

In reply to DannyC:

Where was the avalanche debris out of interest? Around West Gully and Taxus area?

Cheers

In reply to Lamb:

Hi,

There was a large-ish pile of fairly old debris about 100metres under the east-facing lip of the descent ridge, possibly triggered by cornice collapse. It hadn't run down far enough to have impacted the approach on this occasion, but you could see how you wouldn't want to be approaching via the lowest part of coire when that slope goes.

There were small bits of debris spread over a large area under Haar and routes in that area (all over the top of the small craggy bit below).

No debris that I could see under Taxus or West Gully.

Hope that helps,
D.