In reply to krikoman:
> So what you're saying to the five year old child in Syria is, "I'm sorry but blame you forefathers it's all their fault".
What relevance does a 5 year old child in Syria have?! I was simply making the point that the inequality in question is far more a result of choices and behaviour than just bad luck.
> It might also have something to do with our (the west's) meddling and foreign policy, at least some of the time.
As somebody else said before though: we're damned if we do and we're damned if we don't. It's not like we went steaming in to some safe, stable country and ruined everything. There was already a huge civil war raging.
> Does this apply to people leaving Britain too? Whole continents have been based on immigration, you only have to look at North America or Australia. Or are you saying that they've all got it wrong and they should move back to where their ancestors came from and give the country back to the indigenous inhabitants?
Yes it does, although nobody is leaving Britain en-masse and violently demanding entry to a country half way across the world purely for economic reasons.
I hardly see what relevance events from centuries ago has now. You're basically saying that just because something happened in the past, it should continue happening indefinitely. The conquest of places like Australia and North America is irrelevant because it can't be changed. More to the point we've all moved on and it wouldn't happen now because it's totally immoral.
> It doesn't have to be one or the other though does it? Why does helping someone not live in fear, have to cause me or my families life to deteriorate at all? I actually think my families lives are enriched b helping others.
Nobody has said otherwise.
> No one is asking you to feel guilty or hate yourself, that's for your to deal with. You don't have to feel guilty to want to help someone, there is such a thing as humanity, or altruism, or just plain caring, wanting to make the world a better place for someone other than yourself.
You seem to be mistaking other peoples' institutionalised guilt, and their expectation of others to share that guilt, for me actually feeling the same. I don't.
Being altruistic and a humanitarian does not mean reacting emotionally and impulsively and just assuming that everybody is as nice and caring as you are and has the same good motives as you do.
> There are people on here remember, who couldn't understand why the Syrian refugees didn't check the internet first to see how shit it was trying to get to safety. This when there's no drinking water or electricity in many of the cities in Syria. Maybe this type of person could empathise just a little more.
Nobody genuinely just concerned about their safety would deliberately bypass at least 9 perfectly safe European countries to then live in a slum on the French coast, violently demanding entry into Britain!
> The only thing you have to ask yourself is what would I want others to do if I was in their situation, you might expect people to do f*ck all ad let you die. Think how nice it would be if that didn't happen though.
If Britain were suddenly gripped by civil war and France was safe, I'd hope that the French would temporarily rehome me. If Ireland were safe, I'd hope that the Irish would temporarily rehome me. I wouldn't be dragging my family on an unnecessarily dangerous journey across an entire continent. In fact I'd want to remain as close to Britain as possible so that when things calmed down it'd be easier for me to get back and try to rebuild my life.
> I don't know why I get drawn into these type of thread, I think it's because I'm hoping we care more than some people seem to. I realise that commenting here doesn't achieve anything or change anyone's mind or attitude, maybe I just placates my guilt.
Again, you're mistaking foresight and common sense for a lack of empathy.
>What about, thinking long term, we help someone, after the war they go back, sometime in the future we need their >help, they think back and say well they helped me out when I was in need, of course I'll help you.
>You know just thinking long term and all that.
For someone who's so determined to live in Britain and Britain alone, I hardly think they're going to be waiting with baited breath until they can jump on a plane and fly back to Syria. You're missing the point of why they're so eager to live in Britain and talking about safety and stability is just muddying the waters because those are the motives for refugees, not economic migrants, and refugees seek safety and stability as close to their country of origin as possible. Why do you think so many have remained in camps actually within Syria itself?
I also think it's incredibly naive to think that, should the tables be turned and thousands of Westerners were camped in slums on the borders of a Middle-Eastern country, we'd be afforded even a fraction of the concern or courtesy.
Post edited at 12:48