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Many of us enthuse about the power of and the advances made in computer technology and other gadgetry but surely the human brain take a hell of a lot to beat. I've heard it said that human never actually "forget" anything. When we see, hear or say something that "data" gets stored away in our "memory store" until the day we die.
Occasionally, and often for no apparent reason, that "data" gets recalled and we "remember" something that may have happened many decades ago.
By way of illustration I was, last night, watching the box when, for no particular reason I remembered a book we had at home when I was a kid. I could have been no more than about five at the time so we're talking about sixty five years. What I initially remembered about the book was one particular word - "Romany" and that it featured a man, a dog and a gypsy caravan.
I googled "Romany" and, lo and behold it initially brought up: http://romanysociety.org.uk/wp/
I then looked up the said George Bramwell Evens and then went to images and there, staring me in the face so vividly as if it was yesterday was the very book and photographs I had last seen so many years ago:
http://www.abebooks.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/The-Spirit-of-Rom...
http://www.expressandstar.com/wpmvc/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Romany+bo...
Evens was the first natural history broadcaster for the BBC. There is not room here to recount much about him but if you are interested do go to Wikipedia.
I learned a lot in half an hour last night; the gypsy caravan was called a vardo(a Romany word) and Evens called the horse that pulled it "Comma" because it never"came to a full stop
Hope what I've posted is not too boring but I found it fascinating.
Occasionally, and often for no apparent reason, that "data" gets recalled and we "remember" something that may have happened many decades ago.
By way of illustration I was, last night, watching the box when, for no particular reason I remembered a book we had at home when I was a kid. I could have been no more than about five at the time so we're talking about sixty five years. What I initially remembered about the book was one particular word - "Romany" and that it featured a man, a dog and a gypsy caravan.
I googled "Romany" and, lo and behold it initially brought up: http://romanysociety.org.uk/wp/
I then looked up the said George Bramwell Evens and then went to images and there, staring me in the face so vividly as if it was yesterday was the very book and photographs I had last seen so many years ago:
http://www.abebooks.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/The-Spirit-of-Rom...
http://www.expressandstar.com/wpmvc/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Romany+bo...
Evens was the first natural history broadcaster for the BBC. There is not room here to recount much about him but if you are interested do go to Wikipedia.
I learned a lot in half an hour last night; the gypsy caravan was called a vardo(a Romany word) and Evens called the horse that pulled it "Comma" because it never"came to a full stop
Hope what I've posted is not too boring but I found it fascinating.
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In reply to mypyrex:
That brought back memories for me too, the name Muriel popped into my mind when I saw the pic, sure enough one of the books was Romany, Muriel and Doris.
Books borrowed from friends of my parents that fed what was a growing love of the outdoors all through my childhood.
Thanks.
That brought back memories for me too, the name Muriel popped into my mind when I saw the pic, sure enough one of the books was Romany, Muriel and Doris.
Books borrowed from friends of my parents that fed what was a growing love of the outdoors all through my childhood.
Thanks.
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In reply to mypyrex:
The human brain is phenomenal, but never underestimate what can happen if it goes wrong. Your brain is your most precious organ - I don't think anyone has yet tried a brain transplant.
I enjoyed reading your post - thank you for sharing your thoughts.
The human brain is phenomenal, but never underestimate what can happen if it goes wrong. Your brain is your most precious organ - I don't think anyone has yet tried a brain transplant.
I enjoyed reading your post - thank you for sharing your thoughts.
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In reply to mypyrex:
I remember occasionally seeing traditional Romany caravans and horses as a child.
I remember occasionally seeing traditional Romany caravans and horses as a child.
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In reply to marsbar:
There are still a few around. One passes nearby each year, stops on a grass verge for a few days and then moves on. The number of locals that stop and have a chat to him and try to find out if he is in need of anything is amazing.
There are still a few around. One passes nearby each year, stops on a grass verge for a few days and then moves on. The number of locals that stop and have a chat to him and try to find out if he is in need of anything is amazing.
In reply to mypyrex:
I remember Romany - whether directly or by reference in school nature broadcasts I'm not sure.
You've made me remember the Marvellous broadcasts by Wynford Vaughan Thomas, not from raids over Germany, but in the nature series "The Countryside in Winter" etc etc with spine tingling introductory music followed by the wonderful voice that transported you to the landscape he was describing.
I remember Romany - whether directly or by reference in school nature broadcasts I'm not sure.
You've made me remember the Marvellous broadcasts by Wynford Vaughan Thomas, not from raids over Germany, but in the nature series "The Countryside in Winter" etc etc with spine tingling introductory music followed by the wonderful voice that transported you to the landscape he was describing.
In reply to mypyrex:
Quote.. I've heard it said that human never actually "forget" anything. When we see, hear or say something that "data" gets stored away in our "memory store" until the day we die.
Unfortunately this is simply not the case. Obviously memories are amazing and when something forgotten comes back its a real treat.
However, memory actually works by recreating your experiences from very little data, often filling in and changing the details. Read up on it, its fascinating.
https://www.ted.com/talks/elizabeth_loftus_the_fiction_of_memory?language=e...
Anyhow, your story was lovely, thanks for sharing.
Quote.. I've heard it said that human never actually "forget" anything. When we see, hear or say something that "data" gets stored away in our "memory store" until the day we die.
Unfortunately this is simply not the case. Obviously memories are amazing and when something forgotten comes back its a real treat.
However, memory actually works by recreating your experiences from very little data, often filling in and changing the details. Read up on it, its fascinating.
https://www.ted.com/talks/elizabeth_loftus_the_fiction_of_memory?language=e...
Anyhow, your story was lovely, thanks for sharing.
In reply to Dan Arkle:
I liked the TED talk but it doesn't tell the whole story. Memories can be a treat and false memories do exist.
What happens when the memories are real and are bad? And the memories can be triggered simply by a colour or word and change you from a happy person to a very 'agitated' one in less than a second.
> Obviously memories are amazing and when something forgotten comes back its a real treat.
I liked the TED talk but it doesn't tell the whole story. Memories can be a treat and false memories do exist.
What happens when the memories are real and are bad? And the memories can be triggered simply by a colour or word and change you from a happy person to a very 'agitated' one in less than a second.
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In reply to L'Eeyore:
A lot of memory is technically false (ie invented in the brain's 'internal model' to fill the gaps as we take in sensory input) and memory gets reaffirmed over the years in ways that can subtlety modify it. Seperate to that, there are Psychology experiments where completely false memories can easily be induced in ordinary people.
A lot of memory is technically false (ie invented in the brain's 'internal model' to fill the gaps as we take in sensory input) and memory gets reaffirmed over the years in ways that can subtlety modify it. Seperate to that, there are Psychology experiments where completely false memories can easily be induced in ordinary people.
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Going off on a complete tangent I could not help but notice that my OP together with the one in which I mentioned the name of Evens' dog both attracted a "dislike".
Whilst accepting that I am obviously biased I would be interested to know what was so offensive in either of these post to warrant a "dislike".
I do sometimes wonder whether some hit the dislike button for no other reason than having some problem with the author.
What is offensive about:
"> And wasn't the dog called RAC or RACK ?
Raq actually " ?
Post edited at 10:05
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In reply to Offwidth:
Totally agree with what you say. I'm just adding a bit to help anyone understand that sometimes the brain's 'internal model' doesn't fill in the gaps (normally because the memory is too traumatic). This then leads to fairly random problems in the brain's memory recall system.
The problem was first recognised widely when looking at Vietnam vets, but more recently it has been accepted (by a lot of specialists) that the condition (to a greater or lesser extent) can occur following almost any trauma event.
All related to the technically false memory though.
Totally agree with what you say. I'm just adding a bit to help anyone understand that sometimes the brain's 'internal model' doesn't fill in the gaps (normally because the memory is too traumatic). This then leads to fairly random problems in the brain's memory recall system.
The problem was first recognised widely when looking at Vietnam vets, but more recently it has been accepted (by a lot of specialists) that the condition (to a greater or lesser extent) can occur following almost any trauma event.
All related to the technically false memory though.
In reply to mypyrex:
You are probably correct (although I don't know). Learn to ignore the dislikes (unless you get too many) - concentrate on the Likes.
> I do sometimes wonder whether some hit the dislike button for no other reason than having some problem with the author.
You are probably correct (although I don't know). Learn to ignore the dislikes (unless you get too many) - concentrate on the Likes.
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In reply to L'Eeyore:
Just waiting for them to "dislike" my latest post.
> You are probably correct (although I don't know). Learn to ignore the dislikes (unless you get too many) - concentrate on the Likes.
Just waiting for them to "dislike" my latest post.
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In reply to L'Eeyore:
They've done it again! I challenge the tosspot to identify themselves and justify the "dislike". Not that they've probably got the courage to do so.
They've done it again! I challenge the tosspot to identify themselves and justify the "dislike". Not that they've probably got the courage to do so.
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In reply to mypyrex:
They probably work in a Student Union; I've heard that students are becoming so right wing nowadays that they won't allow anybody to speak whose viewpoint disgrees with their own conceited dogma or interferes with their own urge to demonstrate their PC credentials.
They probably work in a Student Union; I've heard that students are becoming so right wing nowadays that they won't allow anybody to speak whose viewpoint disgrees with their own conceited dogma or interferes with their own urge to demonstrate their PC credentials.
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In reply to Offwidth:
Related to that in some way, I suppose - most of what we see is technically false too. We tend to think of our eyes as cameras that take a picture and relay it to the brain but it's really not like that. The brain creates the image based on previous experience, and uses the (relatively poor) sensory information arriving from the eye to update the image, correcting mistakes as it goes. If we could see the image from a human eye as if it were a camera, we'd most likely not be v impressed - areas of v poor resolution, areas with no colour vision and a big ol' blind patch with no information at all. Seeing is believing, apparently, but it's also surprisingly true that believing is seeing.
> A lot of memory is technically false (ie invented in the brain's 'internal model' to fill the gaps as we take in sensory input) and memory gets reaffirmed over the years in ways that can subtlety modify it.
Related to that in some way, I suppose - most of what we see is technically false too. We tend to think of our eyes as cameras that take a picture and relay it to the brain but it's really not like that. The brain creates the image based on previous experience, and uses the (relatively poor) sensory information arriving from the eye to update the image, correcting mistakes as it goes. If we could see the image from a human eye as if it were a camera, we'd most likely not be v impressed - areas of v poor resolution, areas with no colour vision and a big ol' blind patch with no information at all. Seeing is believing, apparently, but it's also surprisingly true that believing is seeing.
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In reply to mypyrex:
Entirely possible that they're just accidental but FFS, if you can't ignore them the old fashioned way how about using Chrome or Firefox to read UKC (perhaps you already do) - extensions available to simply turn them off in your browser here:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=632503&v=1#x8216896
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=632503&v=1#x8217553
> I do sometimes wonder whether some hit the dislike button for no other reason than having some problem with the author.
Entirely possible that they're just accidental but FFS, if you can't ignore them the old fashioned way how about using Chrome or Firefox to read UKC (perhaps you already do) - extensions available to simply turn them off in your browser here:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=632503&v=1#x8216896
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=632503&v=1#x8217553
In reply to mypyrex:
I'm one of the dislikes on this. Turns out it didn't require any courage at all, really wasn't that scary.
I dislike whingeing about dislikes - tends to make one come across as a weirdly thin-skinned man child, a bit like presidential hopeful and bizarrely bouffant short-fingered orange racist Donald Drumpf.
> They've done it again! I challenge the tosspot to identify themselves and justify the "dislike". Not that they've probably got the courage to do so.
I'm one of the dislikes on this. Turns out it didn't require any courage at all, really wasn't that scary.
I dislike whingeing about dislikes - tends to make one come across as a weirdly thin-skinned man child, a bit like presidential hopeful and bizarrely bouffant short-fingered orange racist Donald Drumpf.
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In reply to mypyrex:
I disliked this one for being bad tempered and pompous. I haven't disliked anything else.
> They've done it again! I challenge the tosspot to identify themselves and justify the "dislike". Not that they've probably got the courage to do so.
I disliked this one for being bad tempered and pompous. I haven't disliked anything else.
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In reply to deepsoup:
My original issue was that I was mystified as to what there was to "dislike" about my OP and a subsequent comment about the name of the dog. The consequential comments which you perceived as "whingeing" were intended as tongue in cheek light hearted remarks.
My original issue was that I was mystified as to what there was to "dislike" about my OP and a subsequent comment about the name of the dog. The consequential comments which you perceived as "whingeing" were intended as tongue in cheek light hearted remarks.
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In reply to The New NickB:
If you interpreted it as such then that's your problem.
> I disliked this one for being bad tempered and pompous. I haven't disliked anything else.
If you interpreted it as such then that's your problem.
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In reply to deepsoup:
I give numerous examples of this and it's really difficult to get over, even to intelligent people with a scientific background. I think my favorite is RGB primary colour bars on a lecture projector screen with the room lights on. The red bar 'looks' like a pretty saturated red in context but if you isolate a section of the colour (eg looking through a thin tube... or even a hole in a part clenched fist) the colour is now a very desaturated pink (close to what you would get in a formal chromaticity measurement). Beau Lotto specialises in good stuff in this area.
http://www.lottolab.org
I give numerous examples of this and it's really difficult to get over, even to intelligent people with a scientific background. I think my favorite is RGB primary colour bars on a lecture projector screen with the room lights on. The red bar 'looks' like a pretty saturated red in context but if you isolate a section of the colour (eg looking through a thin tube... or even a hole in a part clenched fist) the colour is now a very desaturated pink (close to what you would get in a formal chromaticity measurement). Beau Lotto specialises in good stuff in this area.
http://www.lottolab.org
In reply to mypyrex:
I'm always amazed by how certain things can trigger feelings like whenever I hear the song that was playing in the background while I was waiting for my wife(who was late) at the alter, I genuinely and instantly get that horrible nervous, butterfly feeling. Weird.
I'm always amazed by how certain things can trigger feelings like whenever I hear the song that was playing in the background while I was waiting for my wife(who was late) at the alter, I genuinely and instantly get that horrible nervous, butterfly feeling. Weird.
In reply to mypyrex:
I think you might find this an interesting read
http://www.aft.org/sites/default/files/periodicals/willingham_0.pdf
Jase
I think you might find this an interesting read
http://www.aft.org/sites/default/files/periodicals/willingham_0.pdf
Jase
In reply to mypyrex:
Reminds me of a dream I had a few months ago. I can't remember the dream now, but it had that prophetic air about it. That it was very important - and that I should never forget about 'blancmange'. I've never heard of 'blancmange' before, and wondered if I'd just made it up (it sounds suitably French, and reminded me of Charlemagne). Turns out blancmange is a dessert - and I shouldn't forget it
Reminds me of a dream I had a few months ago. I can't remember the dream now, but it had that prophetic air about it. That it was very important - and that I should never forget about 'blancmange'. I've never heard of 'blancmange' before, and wondered if I'd just made it up (it sounds suitably French, and reminded me of Charlemagne). Turns out blancmange is a dessert - and I shouldn't forget it
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