UKC

Quick draws

New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
 leewil86 05 Mar 2016
Is it just as safe to use trad style quickdraws e.g wild country helium , for sport as it is use a general sport style QuickDraw ?

Cheers guys
 ogreville 05 Mar 2016
In reply to leewil86:
Yes

Sport draws are more hard wearing if youre working routes, pulling on them a lot and giving them a battering, but lightweight trad draws will work 100% fine.
Post edited at 00:10
 EddInaBox 05 Mar 2016
In reply to leewil86:

Yes, but if you are clipping bolts with hangers (rather than staples with a round cross-section) then the carabiner at the gear end can develop sharp burs, especially if you fall on them, these sharp nicks can damage the slings on hexs and cams, etc. when you use them for trad afterwards.
OP leewil86 05 Mar 2016
In reply to leewil86:

Ahh cheers guys
 1poundSOCKS 05 Mar 2016
In reply to leewil86:

> Is it just as safe to use trad style quickdraws e.g wild country helium , for sport as it is use a general sport style QuickDraw ?

I remember reading or hearing something about the hangers on compression bolts causing problems with wire gates. Not very specific I know, and maybe nonsense, but at least you can Google it.
1
OP leewil86 05 Mar 2016
In reply to 1poundSOCKS:

Cheers mate will check that out now
 Paul Hy 05 Mar 2016
In reply to EddInaBox:

agree, thats why i have separate QD;'s for sport.
OP leewil86 05 Mar 2016
In reply to leewil86:

I think this is the wisest option , a set of separate quick draws sounds sensible.
1
 Morgan Woods 05 Mar 2016
In reply to EddInaBox:

> Yes, but if you are clipping bolts with hangers (rather than staples with a round cross-section) then the carabiner at the gear end can develop sharp burs, especially if you fall on them, these sharp nicks can damage the slings on hexs and cams, etc. when you use them for trad afterwards.

Really? Contact with bolts might wear a bit of paint off the biner but I don't think it's anything to worry about. Funny that I've only heard UK climbers go on about this?
1
 Morgan Woods 05 Mar 2016
In reply to leewil86:

> I think this is the wisest option , a set of separate quick draws sounds sensible.

No it sounds expensive and a waste of time if it's for the dubious reason posited above (bolt wear??). Lot's of climbers however prefer wider tapes for working sport routes and thinner lighter draws for trad (I do), so you may want separate draws for this reason. It's not something you need to rush into.
 EddInaBox 06 Mar 2016
In reply to Morgan Woods:

I'm talking about hangers like these:
https://www.petzl.com/GB/en/Sport/Anchors/COEUR-STAINLESS

They have fairly sharp edges and are made of steel, so much harder than aluminium krabs (which are generally anodised rather than painted) if you fall on them they can leave rough or sharp burs on the inside radius of the carabiner and this can damage soft gear. Ropes are particularly at risk if the quick-draw is used the opposite way round to normal, since the rope can run over the sharp section whilst under tension as one is lowered, or if one falls, this can cause lengthy sections of damage to the sheath.
 bpmclimb 06 Mar 2016
In reply to Morgan Woods:

> Really? Contact with bolts might wear a bit of paint off the biner but I don't think it's anything to worry about. Funny that I've only heard UK climbers go on about this?


I have several QDs on which the upper crab has developed rough areas from use on non-rounded bolt hangers. Personally, I prefer not to run my ropes (loaded) over those surfaces. That doesn't seem unduly paranoid to me. Others (whether from the UK or elsewhere) are, of course, free to make their own decisions.
 john arran 06 Mar 2016
In reply to leewil86:

Most UK climbers can use trad and sport quickdraws interchangeably, and in reality the differences are pretty marginal and mainly concerned with usability rather than safety. For example, thick sport draws are easier to pull up on while dogging, but thin trad draws are more flexible so less likely to lift gear out.

The metal burring issue already mentioned is very real but needs to be taken in context. Krabs won't develop nicks from bolt hangers unless they are fallen on, and most trad climbers rarely if ever take many falls even when sport climbing. Then even if falls are taken and krabs develop small nicks, as long as they're still used as the top krab in a quickdraw to clip pegs and wires there doesn't seem to be a problem. Indeed the only known problem is using such damaged krabs for directly clipping the moving rope.

As far as I'm aware any opinion on risks of using such krabs to clip cam slings is just that - opinion. The demonstrated mechanism by which a sharp edge can damage a fast-moving weighted rope will be very different to that applying to the static loading of a sling. It's very hard to cut nylon with a serrated knife if you only push down on the knife and don't slide it. That's not to say it couldn't be possible, but it must surely be a great deal less likely.

My opinion is that most trad climbers should only need one set of quickdraws for both trad and sport. If anyone finds themselves doing a lot of sport, and particularly if they're taking lots of falls in the process, they might benefit from a dedicated set of sport draws too. But regardless of what climbing you do, everyone should really be inspecting their quickdraw krabs from time to time to make sure they aren't developing any sharp edges inside.
In reply to leewil86:

Depends how you're going to approach your sport climbing. If it's an occasional dip in and not a lot of falling, then use your trad draws, observing to always orient them with a 'gear' and 'rope' end as noted above.
If you're going to do lots, and trips abroad, pushing the grades, falls, with the intent of red pointing, then get a set of sport draws with wide tape like the DMM AlphaSport.
 1poundSOCKS 06 Mar 2016
In reply to Morgan Woods:

> No it sounds expensive and a waste of time

My sport draws have had a lot of use working routes, I wouldn't want to use them on trad now because of the state of the crab on the bolt end. They also won't last forever, it's saved wear and tear on my less robust trad draws, so I'm not sure it's going to be any more expensive in the long run. A bit like having several pairs of shoes for different sorts of climbing, it doesn't work any more expensive overall because they just wear out less quickly.
 TobyA 06 Mar 2016
In reply to leewil86:
John Arran's answer above is very sensible, I'm one of those trad climbers who occasionally sport climbs but get terrified about falling off even 50 cms above a solid bolt, so don't get much wear on my top end krabs. Nevertheless, even a few falls on to old school bolt hangers (or ice screw hangers!) will notch your krabs, then you really don't want a rope running over that krab. That's why having a different type of krab at the top of quickdraws (a straight gate solid, when the rope end is a bent gate or wire gate etc.) is the norm. Wiregate krabs don't mix well with all bolt hangers: http://blackdiamondequipment.com/en_GB/experience-story?cid=qc-lab-weakness... So probably aren't the best thing if you sport climb a lot.

There's a pic in this old review of mine that shows the gouges you can get in a krab from just a few small falls onto a bolt http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=1140 Would that damage a rope running over it? Maybe, maybe not - but not worth the risk of find out. Keep rope end and gear end krabs separate.
Post edited at 11:54
OP leewil86 07 Mar 2016
In reply to leewil86:

Just wanT to say thank you too all that have commented this has been a very interesting and incitefull and most of all very helpful

Cheers folks!

New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Loading Notifications...