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Staying Alive

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 David Coley 06 Mar 2016
Although there are other articles that cover much of the same stuff, I tried to write this with more examples, evidence and links to videos etc. than others had used. I hope it is useful to at least one person!

http://www.coldmountainkit.com/knowledge/articles/419-65-things-to-do-to-st...

If you know anyone who could benefit from it, please share.

Thanks.
 BnB 06 Mar 2016
In reply to David Coley:

Fantastic stuff David. I only got to number 20 before I needed to come back and give due praise.
In reply to David Coley:

Really useful, thank you.
 Mick Ward 06 Mar 2016
In reply to David Coley:

Some great stuff here - thanks for the considerable effort you've put into writing and compiling. As you say, how do we learn - from mistakes! The problem is that, in climbing, these mistakes can be fatal. So I guess the smart thing is to learn from other people's mistakes, not (like me!) your own.

And some mistakes are so simple yet so prevalent, for instance talking with people when they're tying in. We nearly all do it - yet it's potentially deadly. It's time we substituted talking for watching and checking.

Thanks again.

Mick
 Tim Sparrow 06 Mar 2016
In reply to BnB: I only got to 6. Great resource. Thanks Dave, not crossed paths in many years.

 GridNorth 06 Mar 2016
In reply to David Coley:
Great stuff David, Very useful even to us "old timers" who can get a little complacent at times. I like the idea of a screw gate and auto locking krab used together on a sling/QD. I have just adopted that as a new habit which just goes to show you can teach an old dog new tricks

RE point 6.: Of late I have been reluctant to climb indoors as a three especially when my belayer is not using an assisted braking device. I also like Belay Glasses. Apart from easing neck strain they also tend to encourage the belayer to concentrate on the leader more than they might otherwise. People do not tend to turn their heads as much to address anyone standing near by. I hadn't thought of that until I used some.

Al
Post edited at 11:40
 1poundSOCKS 06 Mar 2016
In reply to GridNorth:
> I also like Belay Glasses.

I'll second that. Finally bought some after a shoulder injury gave me pretty bad neck ache, and now I don't like being without them. Just need to be careful when the climber's low down, but you quickly get the knack of switching focus from around the glasses when they're low down, to through the glasses as they get higher up.

EDIT: Just thought about the number of belayers I see standing too far back, just so they can watch the climber. They solve that problem, not that they should be standing so far back regardless.
Post edited at 11:47
 Greasy Prusiks 06 Mar 2016
In reply to David Coley:

Great article really useful. One of the last points you mention is backing up a jumar. Is there a generally accepted knot to use?
OP David Coley 06 Mar 2016
In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

> Great article really useful. One of the last points you mention is backing up a jumar. Is there a generally accepted knot to use?

an overhand clipped to a twist lock on your belay loop. tie a new one every 20ft, or whenever you do something strange like starting a traverse.
 Greasy Prusiks 06 Mar 2016
In reply to David Coley:

Ok thanks. I was envisaging some strange prusik contraption.
OP David Coley 06 Mar 2016
In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

It is possible to clip a screw gate through the top eye of the jumar and put a french prusik on it. However, I would still want a nice comforting overhand clipped to my belay loop. The main issue with using a french prusik in this way if that one would have to frequently remove it (and the screw gate ) to move the jumar from below to above protection clipped to the rope. On a traverse this might be every metre.
 Greasy Prusiks 06 Mar 2016
In reply to David Coley:

Yes that does seem less practical. Also not as secure.

Your article has got me wondering how much is recorded after each climbing accident. I can see a lot of use in knowing (for example) what causes most accidents, how experienced those o involved are or what grade sees a lot of incidents.
OP David Coley 06 Mar 2016
In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

In North America a lot. See: https://www.americanalpineclub.org/p/anam
They try and produce a full report that also covers stuff that might have contributed, e.g. that it was dark and raining and they had just driven for 15 hours.

In the UK, very little.
 Sean Kelly 06 Mar 2016
In reply to David Coley:

> In North America a lot. See: https://www.americanalpineclub.org/p/anam

> They try and produce a full report that also covers stuff that might have contributed, e.g. that it was dark and raining and they had just driven for 15 hours.

> In the UK, very little.

The SMC also detail accidents every year in their journal, but this covers all incidents in the mountains , not just climbing related.
 Greasy Prusiks 06 Mar 2016
In reply to David Coley:

It's a shame we don't record some information, I really think it would make climbers safer and allow more targeting of safety material/advice.

One of the things I particularly liked in your article was using real examples. Nothing brings safety home like that. I remember when my dad was teaching me to climb he really drilled the importance of knowing when to use screw gates. Some years before he'd seen a climber fall after a spring gate opened on an abseil resulting in a long fall that ended in a lake. No question they wouldn't have survived if he hadn't been pulled out so fast. That story always stuck in my mind.
OP David Coley 06 Mar 2016
In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Sounds like he was lucky the lake was there too.
 Greasy Prusiks 06 Mar 2016
In reply to David Coley:

Yes very!
 AlanLittle 06 Mar 2016
In reply to GridNorth:

> Very useful even to us "old timers" who can get a little complacent at times.

Agreed. I started back in climbing a few years ago after a more than ten years away, and found I had a lot to learn to adapt my anchor building, belaying practices etc to modern ways. Some of that being how best to take advantage of newer kit, some being simply improved ways of doing things. I hold and take more falls in a year sport climbing now than I ever did in my entire career as an 80s trad climber.

It's easy to sneer at n00bs, sloppy belaying at climbing walls and so on - but looking back compared to now, a lot of what we habitually did back then was sloppy and we got away with it more by luck than judgement.

 Phil Anderson 07 Mar 2016
In reply to David Coley:

What an excellent read David, thanks for putting in the time and effort.

Please post here when part 2 is complete.

OP David Coley 08 Mar 2016
In reply to Clinger:

will do
 nniff 08 Mar 2016
In reply to David Coley:

Good stuff. It's like a lot of things - know that, know that etc. But there's nothing quite like someone slapping you around the head and pointing it out all at the same time to make you think. And no, I didn't know it all and yes, I did learn something, and yes, I did learn some things again.

I know, for example, that I happily clipped into a big bunch of fresh tat with a new ring to which my partner was belayed. I then set an abseil and abbed off without actually checking for myself that all the in situ stuff was good. The person who placed the ring was at the bottom too and had only placed it the week before (so what......)

As I waited for my partner to ab off, I told myself that I was a tit. Well, at least I got that bit right.
 JMarkW 09 Mar 2016
In reply to David Coley:

Awesome, I now know how to open a beer with my belay device. Sweet.

good stuff
cheers
mark
 annak 09 Mar 2016
In reply to Greasy Prusiks:

Norway is really keen on recording all accidents and near-misses, see
http://db.klatring.no/sikkerhet/pages/rapportAlle00.asp
(right-click and translate to english if you're using something like Chrome)
 Offwidth 09 Mar 2016
In reply to David Coley:
Excellent resource David....

I think you are a bit mean about the lack of resource in the UK though. A few examples of Brits analysing accidents:

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/how-dangerous-are-climbing-and-hill-walking

http://www.mountain.rescue.org.uk/information-centre/incident-statistics

http://www.mcofs.org.uk/research.asp

http://www.ldsamra.org.uk/accidents.aspx

http://www.mountain-training.org/latest-news/2014-incidents-and-near-misses

I've made the point several times that the complaints about more could be done to ensure horses are being led to water in the UK is pretty irrelevant when the real issue is far too few horses drink when they get there.
Post edited at 16:21
1
 David Alcock 09 Mar 2016
In reply to David Coley:

Nice article. Thanks. We all make mistakes due to tiredness, stress, and difficult conditions. Case in point: despite years in the rope-access trade, while laddering a spire I once clipped into the electric cable of my drill, thinking it was a sling. Took me five minutes to notice. Spooked me, and made me triple-check everything always from then on.
OP David Coley 10 Mar 2016
In reply to Offwidth:

Thanks for that.
 BRUCESTRAC 10 Mar 2016
In reply to David Coley:

Damn,
I was really hoping for an article on the BeeGees...
OP David Coley 10 Mar 2016
In reply to BRUCESTRAC:

> Damn,

> I was really hoping for an article on the BeeGees...

 planetmarshall 11 Mar 2016
In reply to BRUCESTRAC:

> I was really hoping for an article on the BeeGees...

You can tell by the way I use my Rocks...
OP David Coley 11 Mar 2016
In reply to planetmarshall:

> You can tell by the way I use my Rocks...

Groan



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