UKC

Hi there,

With this being my first proper season winter climbing I'm looking for some advice from what you all have experienced in the past. I will be in the Cairngorm's probably at Coire an t'Sneachda area on Thursday/Friday and with temperatures around 7 degrees at 900m I'm guessing most gullies will be soft and I will be swimming up? Or if I make a super early start with slightly lower temperatures in the morning would it be worth going for a look before the sun softens the snow more? I am guessing its not going to be worth it but as I said just looking for some advice so please be nice haha!

Cheers,

In reply to t__her6:

if its clear and calm at night its highly likely the snow will re-freeze, even if the forecast air temp is above freezing, so if you get up early enough you may find lovely neve, but it will very quickly soften so be prepaired to walk in and out again if you don't beat the sun...

In reply to Webster:
The refreeze effect in High Pressure weather usually only occurs up to about 3 or 4 degrees. Last night was plus 6 on the top of aonach mor.

Its basically similar conditions as you see frost forming on your car even though the temperature is above freezing. Of course the snow pack its self must be below freezing as otherwise it would be water, so that also effects things somewhat also.

In reply to t__her6:
during sustained high pressure in spring I wouldn't have thought warm temperatures would normally cause the snow to soften so much you would be swimming up. It may well be wet though and slushy and / or corn snow.

If its really mild you want to avoid being under large cornices which typically form above gullies. The highest risk time of the day with the worst conditions is probably mid afternoon and the safest typically very early after a frost (if there is one).

In reply to Webster:

Thanks for that, think I might chance it and see what its like and turn around if its not upto much. Cheers!

In reply to CurlyStevo:
Thanks thats useful information, sounds like an early start is a must to have any chance of anything and safest. Cheers!

In reply to t__her6:
I'd probably avoid climbs which you know have a potentially fragile cornice on completely if it's well above freezing and in the sun! If you check the AWS and you know for a fact its frosted over night then an early start could make it ok, perhaps good even

See here
http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/weather/maps/city?LANG=en&SI=mph&CEL=C&WMO=0...

you wouldn't want to be under any at any point today, for a period of time anyway. Quick crossings are a different matter.

Also keep looking at the sais site, the observed conditions (as well as the forecast) are really useful in judging what's good to climb as well as the blogs.

http://www.sais.gov.uk/

In reply to CurlyStevo:
Has it not been significantly colder in the East. Would be interesting to see a comparison of temps for the Aonach Mor & Cairngorm weather stations.

In reply to drunken monkey:
Yeah sorry I got confused between posts should have linked the cairngorm AWS, although its only been about half a degree colder there:

http://www.weatheronline.co.uk//weather/maps/current?CONT=euro®ION=0003&...

In reply to t__her6:

Things were better today than the mountain weather station would suggest, and it was sub zero in the glens last night.

http://www.abacusmountainguides.com/blog/hadrians-wall-direct

The cornices in the sun would still be one to be wary of mind.

In reply to t__her6:

We had an early ish start today and set off at 8am from the ski centre car park and conditions were great after the cold night. We did Fiacaill Ridge and we're back at the car at half 12 when the snow was definitely a lot softer. However the gullies stayed in the shade all morning. Going back there tomorrow to try a couple of them...

In reply to flying el burro:
remember the gullies may well be in the shade but the cornices are in the sun.

8am is not an early start for winter its a late one, but at least the walk in is short.

In reply to t__her6:

SAIS reports were today saying that the shaded (i.e. in gullies) snow was staying hard and icy just about everywhere today.

In reply to flying el burro:

Sounds like a great day! Hopefully you manage to get something climbed tomorrow

In reply to CurlyStevo:

My mate was in Sneachda yesterday. Said he Did Red Gully, Goat Track Gully and Mirror direct. Good ice and snow.

Goat track descent very icy. He was off the hill by lunchtime

In reply to drunken monkey:

The Ben yesterday wasn't so good

http://www.abacusmountainguides.com/blog/temperature-inversion