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So, I haven't been climbing long and most of what I've done outside is bouldering, Sports or top rope. I did half a dozen trad routes last year and thought, meh, a lot of effort for easy climbing. I'd been told, and read, not to push myself in the way that I do with Sports because, well, I shouldn't really fall on gear I've placed myself. Makes sense for the same reason I'd use a clip stick on a run out first bolt of a sports route. I'm not there to break an ankle or worse.
However, I love climbing and really want to do some long trad multi pitches in the mountains - I love the idea of the freedom to explore with a trad rack. So, Sunday I spent the day a Back Forest with the rack to learn some more and alleluia, it made sense!! I climbed some Diff's to start with then a couple of HVS's; the first HVS was fun - Toe Rail; the second - aha! - Eye of Japetus.
What an amazing head game a committing route is
Really looking forward to doing more trad now. Think I'll always look for routes with half decent protection but wow, there's so much more climbing I need to do!!
Anyway, thought I'd share that everyone because three days later and I'm still buzzing
However, I love climbing and really want to do some long trad multi pitches in the mountains - I love the idea of the freedom to explore with a trad rack. So, Sunday I spent the day a Back Forest with the rack to learn some more and alleluia, it made sense!! I climbed some Diff's to start with then a couple of HVS's; the first HVS was fun - Toe Rail; the second - aha! - Eye of Japetus.
What an amazing head game a committing route is
Really looking forward to doing more trad now. Think I'll always look for routes with half decent protection but wow, there's so much more climbing I need to do!!
Anyway, thought I'd share that everyone because three days later and I'm still buzzing
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In reply to GargoyleFeet:
Brilliant stuff! Once your gear placement and climbing experience improves it can be great fun climbing poorly protected routes and trying to make them as safe as possible!
Happy climbing and stay safe
Brilliant stuff! Once your gear placement and climbing experience improves it can be great fun climbing poorly protected routes and trying to make them as safe as possible!
Happy climbing and stay safe
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In reply to GargoyleFeet:
The real epiphany will come when you realize trad can be safe and trad can be hard. You don't have to be climbing scary terror fests to get some big numbers (especially if you've come from a sport climbing or bouldering background.
The real epiphany will come when you realize trad can be safe and trad can be hard. You don't have to be climbing scary terror fests to get some big numbers (especially if you've come from a sport climbing or bouldering background.
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In reply to GargoyleFeet:
Well done... btw Eye of Japetus is E1 these days after a cam blew a key placement.
Well done... btw Eye of Japetus is E1 these days after a cam blew a key placement.
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In reply to GargoyleFeet:
what an inspiring post!
I sometimes think that trad climbing is my heroin fix - I get twitchy until I get some then I'm all relaxed and mellow again for a while...until the addiction strikes again.
I'm afraid that you're hooked now
what an inspiring post!
I sometimes think that trad climbing is my heroin fix - I get twitchy until I get some then I'm all relaxed and mellow again for a while...until the addiction strikes again.
I'm afraid that you're hooked now
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In reply to GargoyleFeet:
Two really nice routes - Toe Rail especially is a little gem, especially with the fingery direct start.
Get yourself to Pembroke or Cornwall or Gogarth and try it with the sea thundering beneath your feet as well!
> So, Sunday I spent the day a Back Forest with the rack to learn some more and alleluia, it made sense!! I climbed some Diff's to start with then a couple of HVS's; the first HVS was fun - Toe Rail; the second - aha! - Eye of Japetus.
Two really nice routes - Toe Rail especially is a little gem, especially with the fingery direct start.
Get yourself to Pembroke or Cornwall or Gogarth and try it with the sea thundering beneath your feet as well!
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In reply to Dave Garnett:
They are on my radar once I get a bit more experience. Think there's some slate on the horizon first...
They are on my radar once I get a bit more experience. Think there's some slate on the horizon first...
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In reply to deacondeacon:
I think on Sunday I realized this - I've been watching too many videos of people on E8's or soloing 50 feet up and that skewed my perception of what trad can be.
I think on Sunday I realized this - I've been watching too many videos of people on E8's or soloing 50 feet up and that skewed my perception of what trad can be.
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In reply to GargoyleFeet:
We saw you guys at Back Forest last week (we were the team accidentally climbing Thin Twin) and you seemed to be having a brilliant time, we loved your enthusiasm. Eye of Japetus is a great route, isn't it? Far better than Toe Rail (despite its stars) and Thin Twin for that matter..!
Hope your second was also having fun - we heard unhappy noises at one point :-S
We saw you guys at Back Forest last week (we were the team accidentally climbing Thin Twin) and you seemed to be having a brilliant time, we loved your enthusiasm. Eye of Japetus is a great route, isn't it? Far better than Toe Rail (despite its stars) and Thin Twin for that matter..!
Hope your second was also having fun - we heard unhappy noises at one point :-S
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In reply to GargoyleFeet:
Fantastic stuff!
Trad can be a lot of different things, and as Deacon says, there's no reason to think it shouldn't be hard (whatever that means for the individual climber). Doing hard moves on trad - best IMO in an unbelievably exposed position on a big cliff above the sea or in the mountains - is a real buzz.
Fantastic stuff!
Trad can be a lot of different things, and as Deacon says, there's no reason to think it shouldn't be hard (whatever that means for the individual climber). Doing hard moves on trad - best IMO in an unbelievably exposed position on a big cliff above the sea or in the mountains - is a real buzz.
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In reply to GargoyleFeet:
Good effort!
I love sport and bouldering, but trad will always be a bit more special to me, there's just more to the experience for me.
Good effort!
I love sport and bouldering, but trad will always be a bit more special to me, there's just more to the experience for me.
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In reply to ashtond6:
Hmmm ....... that rather depends on quite a number of different factors, don't you think?
> Keep it up mate! Work on your gear then it's totally ok to fall off
Hmmm ....... that rather depends on quite a number of different factors, don't you think?
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In reply to mcdougal:
Hi, I remember the two of you - think we had a quick chat after I'd done Toe Rail. Back Forest is such a great little crag I agree, Eye of Japetus is a great route. I may have mentioned that several times already lol
Yes there were some very unhappy sounds early on but it was just the first route of the day type fear and she got past it after that. The scream as she fell off Eye of Japetus on second was just a normal scream
Hi, I remember the two of you - think we had a quick chat after I'd done Toe Rail. Back Forest is such a great little crag I agree, Eye of Japetus is a great route. I may have mentioned that several times already lol
Yes there were some very unhappy sounds early on but it was just the first route of the day type fear and she got past it after that. The scream as she fell off Eye of Japetus on second was just a normal scream
Post edited at 13:10
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In reply to GargoyleFeet:
Spent this Sunday at alpha buttress - deliberately did nothing scarier than VS - to practice placing gear and all things trad. It had to be done but think I'll be looking for harder or longer routes to get my fix.
Thanks for all the encouragement
Spent this Sunday at alpha buttress - deliberately did nothing scarier than VS - to practice placing gear and all things trad. It had to be done but think I'll be looking for harder or longer routes to get my fix.
Thanks for all the encouragement
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In reply to mcdougal:
I'm fine, but thanks for asking! Working with my fear this year - still find it hard to go for it when its a big or committed move, have to get lots more climbing under my belt!
I was worn out by the time I got on Eye of Japitus and fell of (not very far admittedly) because my arms were pumped!
I never realised I could scream like a girl lmao
I'm fine, but thanks for asking! Working with my fear this year - still find it hard to go for it when its a big or committed move, have to get lots more climbing under my belt!
I was worn out by the time I got on Eye of Japitus and fell of (not very far admittedly) because my arms were pumped!
I never realised I could scream like a girl lmao
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In reply to Offwidth:
I did it after this happened and it still felt top end hvs to me. This seems to be the consensus on ukc so I'll leave it as it is at the moment and add a note to to route description
> Well done... btw Eye of Japetus is E1 these days after a cam blew a key placement.
I did it after this happened and it still felt top end hvs to me. This seems to be the consensus on ukc so I'll leave it as it is at the moment and add a note to to route description
In reply to GargoyleFeet:
Lovely post, Mr Feet. Trad is the bee's knees. It is the wasp's nipples. It is, I would venture to say, the erogenous zones of every major flying insect in the northern hemisphere.
There's something that's even better than trad, though: alpine mountaineering. As far as I'm concerned, everything else is merely training for that. Even trad
Lovely post, Mr Feet. Trad is the bee's knees. It is the wasp's nipples. It is, I would venture to say, the erogenous zones of every major flying insect in the northern hemisphere.
There's something that's even better than trad, though: alpine mountaineering. As far as I'm concerned, everything else is merely training for that. Even trad
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In reply to thecruxclimber:
It was a very atmospheric scream and we thought that you were auditioning for a Hitchcock film
Ignore Le Chevalier Mal Odeur btw, Eye of Japetus is definitely more like E1 but his crag moderator status has gone to his head...
It was a very atmospheric scream and we thought that you were auditioning for a Hitchcock film
Ignore Le Chevalier Mal Odeur btw, Eye of Japetus is definitely more like E1 but his crag moderator status has gone to his head...
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In reply to Sophie G.:
That's the aim Sophie! Can't wait to get into the alps but always good to learn some basics first
That's the aim Sophie! Can't wait to get into the alps but always good to learn some basics first
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In reply to Le Chevalier Mal Fet:
That consensus comes partly from old votes and the generally adventurous climbers who visit. I'd stand by my E1 view now and not a soft touch at that grade and reachy.
That consensus comes partly from old votes and the generally adventurous climbers who visit. I'd stand by my E1 view now and not a soft touch at that grade and reachy.
In reply to Offwidth:
"Back Forest" and "adventurous" aren't often heard together. Are you sure you're not thinking of the Black Forest? Witches, goblins and elves to be found there; whereas at Back Forest it's mainly sheep.
"Back Forest" and "adventurous" aren't often heard together. Are you sure you're not thinking of the Black Forest? Witches, goblins and elves to be found there; whereas at Back Forest it's mainly sheep.
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In reply to mcdougal:
Yes they are: its a relatively minor venue as peak crags go (peak climbers are way too conservative in their crag choices) and there are specifically no groups. Most of the big Moorland crags get tough voting for the same sorts of reasons. Roaches BMC grades are tougher compared to the Eastern Edges and there is confirmation bias attached to that as well.
Yes they are: its a relatively minor venue as peak crags go (peak climbers are way too conservative in their crag choices) and there are specifically no groups. Most of the big Moorland crags get tough voting for the same sorts of reasons. Roaches BMC grades are tougher compared to the Eastern Edges and there is confirmation bias attached to that as well.
Post edited at 23:20
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In reply to ashtond6:
You're giving advice to a relative novice, and telling them that it's "totally ok to fall off" as long as they've practised placing gear? This person doesn't climb as high in the grade as you do, they're very likely climbing on less-than-vertical, highly featured rock - probably plenty to hit on the way down. If they did hurt themselves after following your advice, would you just say "whatever", with the same careless, crappy attitude?
> Whatever
You're giving advice to a relative novice, and telling them that it's "totally ok to fall off" as long as they've practised placing gear? This person doesn't climb as high in the grade as you do, they're very likely climbing on less-than-vertical, highly featured rock - probably plenty to hit on the way down. If they did hurt themselves after following your advice, would you just say "whatever", with the same careless, crappy attitude?
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In reply to bpmclimb:
I'd agree that a casual attitude of relative beginners to falling off most sub extreme stuff is a bad idea as you go further than you might expect and such routes often have things that stick out that will hurt if you hit them. Deliberate practice falls should start on sports routes and when moving out on to trad make sure the fall zone is clear and avoid classics as it adds unecessarily to the wear-and-tear of gear placements. Having said that, anyone pushing themselves sensibly will fall occasionally and resisting any chance of falls can hold climbers back.
I'd agree that a casual attitude of relative beginners to falling off most sub extreme stuff is a bad idea as you go further than you might expect and such routes often have things that stick out that will hurt if you hit them. Deliberate practice falls should start on sports routes and when moving out on to trad make sure the fall zone is clear and avoid classics as it adds unecessarily to the wear-and-tear of gear placements. Having said that, anyone pushing themselves sensibly will fall occasionally and resisting any chance of falls can hold climbers back.
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In reply to bpmclimb:
Look at your like / dislike status says it all...
Again, whatever, advice police
Look at your like / dislike status says it all...
Again, whatever, advice police
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In reply to ashtond6:
Like/dislike status says very little, especially if it's only a few votes. Could always go either way, depending on who reads/decides to respond. Since you mention it - I've just had a look at my initial response to you: currently 6-6, but could be 3-9 or 9-3. So what? Anyone with an ounce of intelligence realises this.
Re advice police: you're the one that took it upon yourself to offer advice - which was incomplete, and potentially dangerous given that it was aimed at a relative novice. I initially responded (quite mildly, actually) - just pointed out that there were more factors to consider than the ability to place gear. It's an obvious reply; it would probably have been made by somebody else if not me.
Re "whatever": sends a pretty clear message that you don't have any genuine concerns here. If you simply don't give a shit, please don't post any more safety-related advice. Thanks.
Like/dislike status says very little, especially if it's only a few votes. Could always go either way, depending on who reads/decides to respond. Since you mention it - I've just had a look at my initial response to you: currently 6-6, but could be 3-9 or 9-3. So what? Anyone with an ounce of intelligence realises this.
Re advice police: you're the one that took it upon yourself to offer advice - which was incomplete, and potentially dangerous given that it was aimed at a relative novice. I initially responded (quite mildly, actually) - just pointed out that there were more factors to consider than the ability to place gear. It's an obvious reply; it would probably have been made by somebody else if not me.
Re "whatever": sends a pretty clear message that you don't have any genuine concerns here. If you simply don't give a shit, please don't post any more safety-related advice. Thanks.
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In reply to bpmclimb:
Oh god, still having a go at me for offering a beginner some encouragement? Get a grip, I offered no safety advice
Oh god, still having a go at me for offering a beginner some encouragement? Get a grip, I offered no safety advice
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In reply to ashtond6:
The post was pretty flippant for someone as experienced as you. It doesn't take much walking round on a busy day on a trad crag to realise too many newish climbers are overconfident (and a few are incompetant) with their gear.
If you are appealing to likes, you look like you have already lost the argument.
The post was pretty flippant for someone as experienced as you. It doesn't take much walking round on a busy day on a trad crag to realise too many newish climbers are overconfident (and a few are incompetant) with their gear.
If you are appealing to likes, you look like you have already lost the argument.
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In reply to ashtond6:
Great! In that case, sorry to have bothered you - I was concerned because I thought you told a relative novice that falling off is totally ok as long as you work on your gear. I must have misread your post.
> I offered no safety advice
Great! In that case, sorry to have bothered you - I was concerned because I thought you told a relative novice that falling off is totally ok as long as you work on your gear. I must have misread your post.
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In reply to ashtond6:
Yes, until you either give up, or man up and admit that your advice was ill-judged. I'm not holding out much hope for the latter, though - I don't get the impression that you find it easy to admit you're wrong about anything. Still, you never know .....
> Still going????
Yes, until you either give up, or man up and admit that your advice was ill-judged. I'm not holding out much hope for the latter, though - I don't get the impression that you find it easy to admit you're wrong about anything. Still, you never know .....
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In reply to ashtond6:
No, you obviously haven't given up, because you keep trying to have the last word. Trouble is - it doesn't appear that you have anything to say.
Anyway, what is it that you think you've given up on? Explaining why your original post was appropriate? You never got started on that process as far as I can see - just one ill-judged post followed by a string of "whatevers" and one transparent attempt to pass off your dangerous advice as "a bit of encouragement". Pretty poor stuff!
How about either telling us why you think your advice was appropriate for a novice, or admitting that it wasn't? Or if you don't care either way, just go away.
No, you obviously haven't given up, because you keep trying to have the last word. Trouble is - it doesn't appear that you have anything to say.
Anyway, what is it that you think you've given up on? Explaining why your original post was appropriate? You never got started on that process as far as I can see - just one ill-judged post followed by a string of "whatevers" and one transparent attempt to pass off your dangerous advice as "a bit of encouragement". Pretty poor stuff!
How about either telling us why you think your advice was appropriate for a novice, or admitting that it wasn't? Or if you don't care either way, just go away.
In reply to bpmclimb:
Gave encouragement to a beginner, only with good intentions
I am sorry if that offended you, it was not intentional
In my opinion, it's fairly common sense not to fall off with a massive ledge under you, or with no/shit gear in. Hence why I didn't include that in the post
The reason I gave him the falling off encouragement, is because he said about it in his original posts, and because it held me back for years climbing with people who always said don't
Gave encouragement to a beginner, only with good intentions
I am sorry if that offended you, it was not intentional
In my opinion, it's fairly common sense not to fall off with a massive ledge under you, or with no/shit gear in. Hence why I didn't include that in the post
The reason I gave him the falling off encouragement, is because he said about it in his original posts, and because it held me back for years climbing with people who always said don't
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In reply to ashtond6:
Thanks for taking the time to reply properly, and sorry I got a bit annoyed. I have a bit of a thing about that insouciant "whatever" response, which you hear a lot of these days - always sounds vaguely post-pubertal teenager to me. Just getting old, I guess
Thanks for taking the time to reply properly, and sorry I got a bit annoyed. I have a bit of a thing about that insouciant "whatever" response, which you hear a lot of these days - always sounds vaguely post-pubertal teenager to me. Just getting old, I guess
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