UKC

Hi

I'm trying to research some two way radios for use in the mountains. Not from one pitch to another. After something with greater range. I'm aware of the short comings of cheaper handhelds etc. We use fairly powerful ones in MRT, but even those cant be great sometimes. What are folks experience? Where did you get them etc etc.
Thanks in advance.

In reply to droites:

Do you have, or are you planning to get, a license? If not then the cheap (and not so cheap) PMR license free radios are the most powerful you can legally use, and they all have the same power output.

In reply to droites:

A couple of things to consider. Unless you get a licence from OFCOM to become a qualified radio amateur you should not use one or buy one capable of transmitting on any of the amateur band frequencies. You will need to sit an exam for this qualification. That said, a reputable supplier of two way radios will be able to advise you on what frequencies are used and whether it is a 'radio amateur' two way transceiver, or whether it is one which can transmit/receive on one of the public frequency bands which need no qualifications and/or licence.

That said most of them put out about 5 to 10 watts regardless of whether they are for amateur radio use or public. As all these hand held transceivers are UHF/VHF their efficiency is limited to line of sight communications anyway and obtaining a more powerful one won't necessarily get you any further distance.

Using 5 watts can easily get you line of sight communications with another hand held from hill top to hill top at over 20 miles and more provided it is in line of site. Regardless of power, using one outside the CIC hut on the Ben for example, to talk to your mate whose sat outside the YH in Glen Nevis is not going to work even if you had a 100 watt transceiver) (Before anyone tells me the MR ones do, this is because they use, I assume, repeaters placed in strategic positions).

Using the old 'CB' radios which were 5 watts max I've easily obtained two way communications of several miles in undulating lowland provided both parties were not in valleys or hollows and around 12 miles when I've been on a summit and the other person was in a valley or town elsewhere, but this is probably what you know already from your experiences in MR.

Whatever you do get, it is likely to be improved by getting a more efficient aerial and this makes for better range than power alone. A good aerial on a poor radio should outperform a good radio with a poor (standard built in) aerial. So you may wish to consider getting one which is capable of taking an additional aerial. Notwithstanding the fact that it still won't get you transmitting your fish and chip order from the CIC Hut to a chippy in Fort Willy unless someone moves the Ben away!!!!

Try Radioworld.co.uk, to start with they've got piles of stuff.

In reply to droites:

You can't beat a mobile phone. Even in MR we quite often fall back to using a phone - it also has the advantage that other people can't (easily) eavesdrop on you conversation.

Although, obviously, if you can't get a signal its still no use.

In reply to Dave Perry:

You are partly right here, while you can not transmit on amateur bands without a licence the allocated frequencies are all intended for experimental use to help people gain an understanding of the equipment's capabilities through various means. The 430-440 MHz band is on a secondary user basis to the MoD, as such if they want it you need to get off that frequency, as such this is not really good for safety purposes.
PMR 446, the typical style of 2 way radios are limited to 500mW EIRP and as such should not be modified in any way (in fact the only people able to modify radio transcievers are amateurs with an intermediate licence or greater or under a research licence from ofcom).
It is possible to get a business licence which allows up to 10W with a wide variety of VHF and UHF hand held radios being available at about £80 each, I had a play with some of these in the lakes a few years ago and they seemed to work pretty well within the same valley.
RF path loss is logarithmic to distance, the free space path loss model will help explain what I mean if you are happy with equations.
Hand held CB radios do exist, however my previous point about EIRP still stands, you should not muck about with the supplied antenna so their performance is largely the same regardless of manufacturer with most differences being user interface or aesthetic.

In reply to spenser:

I'm not too sure which bits i'm 'partially' correct on Spenser but I was working from memory.

Just to clarify:-

A) Only a licensed amateur can use the band 430 - 440mhz. Whilst all amateur frequency allocations are for 'Experimentation and self learning" this doesn't mean a non qualified member of the public can use this equipment.

B) The PMR 446(MHZ) allocation of frequencies is probably the most widely available equipment wise and is easily available to the public to buy. As you state the output is only half a watt, You are not allowed to modify these whether you have an amateur radio licence or not. These are available to any member of the public without licence.

C) CB frequencies (26/27 MHZ) Like, B the equipment is still available for any member of the public to use without a licence. Max 4 watts, and there are no restrictions on aerials. So you could use an aerial elevated at a greater hight if you wished, or other modifications to the aerial if you wish. Restrictions on aerial modification was removed some years ago.

As for range everything I've stated previously remains much the same. Generally the higher you are the better the range. A fellow radio amateur using 5 watt radio on 145MHZ band (licenced radio amateurs only) has contacted another amateur at 95 miles range in the UK, summit to summit. Rf path loss may be logarithmic to distance etc., etc., but there are plenty of non calculable variances to render it theoretical.

The OP stated that he used MR radios. These too are restricted to 10 watts.

If I didn't have a radio amateur licence I'd get a CB mobile radio and get a better aerial. As an added bonus the 26/27mhz allocated frequency bands sometimes are subject to extremely advantageous propagation and plenty of CB users have been able to contact other CB users in europe using basic unmodified equipment.

Power output isn't everything. Using my brick sized 5 watt radio I bought when I first became qualified, I've worked stations as far apart as the eastern US and as far as the middle east.

In reply to Dave Perry:
I more meant that there was further information which could help with the OP's understanding
A. My point was that it should not be used for purposes other than "Experimentation and Self Learning", Amateurs are secondary users in this band anyway so even if this were not the case it would be a poor choice for any safety related use.
C. My knowledge of CB comes from the bloke who taught me the stuff to pass my foundation licence so it may well be out of date.
My point about path loss being logarithmic was to show that while an increase in power would result in greater range it is not linear.
The advice to use a handheld CB set is sound.