UKC

I visited the small hill of Cockleroy today near Linlithgow. It has the distinction that you can see both the West Coast (Goat Fell on Arran) and the East Coast (Bass Rock) from its top. Sure enough today the visibility was good enough to do so. It made me wonder if there are other Scottish locations at which distinctive West & East coast features are visible.

In reply to keith-ratcliffe:

In theory...

From Ben Chonzie you can see Largo Law on one coast, and Goat Fell on (or rather, off) the other
From the Cobbler - the Pentlands (are they coastal enough?), and of course the sea on the west coast
From Ben Cleuch - lots of the Forth on the east and the tip of Arran's hills to the west

Does Ben Nevis count as a coastal feature? If so you can surely see both 'coasts' from Ben Macdui and other Cairngorms biggies

In reply to keith-ratcliffe:

Even from the Cleish hills in Fife you can theoretically see both Bass Rock and Arran. Don't think I ever actually have seen Arran, not to recognise at least. I am cheating now on Viewfinderpanoramas.org

In reply to Dan Bailey - UKHillwalking.com:

You can see Arran from Scald law and the east coast is easily seen.

In reply to Dan Bailey - UKHillwalking.com:
I was restricting my choices to those where views to offshore features could be seen. This tends to limit the Eastern views to those where the only islands are off the Forth area.
I do recall that Ben Cleuch has good views of the East Coast and I think I have seen Arran from there so that may be another.

In reply to Dan Bailey - UKHillwalking.com:
Thanks for reminding me of viewfinder - having looked at the site it appears that Ben Cleuch, Scald Law, Tinto & Culter Fell all give East & West coast views to offshore features. The thing about Cockleroy is its modest height of 278 metres, it just happens to be in a trough that is the Central belt.

In reply to keith-ratcliffe:

I recall seeing the Skye and Kessock Bridges from the Affric hills, not at exactly the same time but there may be somewhere tucked in there you can get a vantage point.

In reply to keith-ratcliffe:

I love Cockleroy, it's like a tiny mountain. A slopey side and a steep side, two summits with a connecting ridge, a wee bit of scree and some crags. And what a view for a 10minute walk!

In reply to aln:
I feel a list coming on:- small hills that give big rewards - Conic, Dumyat.......

In reply to keith-ratcliffe:

Ben Aan?

In reply to keith-ratcliffe:

Great idea. Have you explored the area surrounding Cockleroy? Some good wandering to be had, in and around the woods, round the loch, wee bits of crag here and there.

In reply to Gone for good:
I recall that a few years ago someone published a book of walks on lesser hills in Scotland. Anyone know it?

In reply to keith-ratcliffe:
Dunrod hill at the back of the old IBM plant in Greenock gave spectacular views over the Clyde down as far as the Ailsa Craig plus great views of Arran and the Argyll hills. Its only a 20 minute stiff walk from Cornalees car park.

In reply to Dan Bailey - UKHillwalking.com:
http://www.udeuschle.selfhost.pro/panoramas/makepanoramas_en.htm

is a good cheat it was a link on ukc some time ago

Anyone know from were in Yorkshire you can see the east and west coast??

In reply to keith-ratcliffe:

On a slightly related note.

Anyone prepared to give opinions on a crossing from coast to coast (Scotland) that in incorporates the (possibly) lowest crossing? I also understand that most of the route is paddlerish.

In reply to L'Eeyore:

Caledonian canal?

In reply to Gone for good:

One of the best. Back in the 80's, sometimes after work in Glasgow and the train back to Cumbernauld I'd borrow my dad's car, pick up a pal, bomb over to Ben A'an and hit the top for sunset for a midweek mountain hit.

In reply to Gone for good:

Nope

In reply to aln:

And there's a nice little slab at the top thats good for a wee scramble plus crags lower down on the north side of the hill if I remember correctly?

In reply to L'Eeyore:

Barring the obvious canals etc., maybe Kinlochleven, Blackwater Reservoir, Loch Rannoch, Loch Tummel, Pitlochry, Perth... max. height c.1100ft?

(Mind, it depends what/where you count as a 'crossing'!)

In reply to Wanderer100:

Yep, obviously!

In reply to Gone for good:

Yes there's good rock. A good day can be had linking routes on the crags as you wander to the top, the last one is just below the top. Kinda multi-pitch with grass in between ☺

In reply to L'Eeyore:

I might have misunderstood you. I take it you didn't mean a padding route?
The Southern Upland way is one of the coast to coast routes as well as the Glen Affric Kintail trail that goes from Morvich to Drumnadrochit.

In reply to Gone for good:
I recall a great wee walk following the cut above Greenock from Overton round to Cornalees taking in Dundrod then back over the top to the start. It was a superb walk with great views of the Outer Clyde.

In reply to L'Eeyore:

Forth Clyde Canal?

In reply to keith-ratcliffe:

Here's a few good small hills.
Bennachie is another great small hill with possible coast to coast views?
http://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/news/our-pick-scotlands-best-wee-hills/00125...

In reply to keith-ratcliffe:

Once memorymap finally loads I'll let you know the route I was thinking about - no one has mentioned it yet.

In reply to L'Eeyore:

OK the route I was thinking of was;

Dornoch Firth to Kylesku. (via Loch Shin/More/Laxford)

It might not break any records but it is a very interesting route.

In reply to L'Eeyore:

The road climbs quite a bit West of loch shin and falls even faster must be a good few feet above sea . and paddling down Westminster river to Laxford would leave a lot of sea before kylesku

In reply to Name Changed 34:

There is fair bit of portage and the route isn't for novices. Interested about the Westminster river though (my language skills are limited).

In reply to L'Eeyore:


Why Kylesku when Loch Laxford's already on the coast?

In reply to petestack:

Just a detour to possibly climb some mountains.

In reply to keith-ratcliffe:


You can also see England from it - the furthest hill in view is the Cheviot, at 80 miles. Isn't often it's clear enough for that - tends to need snow on top for it to stand out - whereas the Bass Rock and Arran are regularly in view.

I was up Beinn Ime one day last year on a clear day and overheard two people discussing the view - they reckoned that Ailsa Craig was the Bass Rock, which complicates matters

In reply to Name Changed 34:


Surely Yorkshire is too vast for that to be possible?

In reply to keith-ratcliffe:
Flying down from the Shetlands to Glasgow many years ago gave me excellent views of both coasts whilst over the northern highlands. Even better, when I mentioned I was into mountaineering I was invited into the cockpit and treated to the full coast to coast panorama!

Does that count?

In reply to keith-ratcliffe:

Maybe not quite what you meant by coast to coast, but I was fortunate enough to be on top of Mealisbhal (highest of the Uig hills on Lewis) on a high pressure day a few years ago when it was possible to see St Kilda to the West and Assynt to the East. Having spent a fair bit of time around the Western isles, this is still a one off for me.

In reply to BnB:

No, but it was a bit of a trick question, as you wold be on a high point that has got a viewing gallery but not public aces, think BBC


L'Eeyore Westminster has the Estate at Achfery

In reply to keith-ratcliffe:
Yeah, a lot of the hills in and at the edge of the Central belt have views to offshore features on both coasts - not only is it not far between the coasts, but there aren't any large hills in the middle blocking the view.

There aren't that many East coast islands to see from elsewhere, though. From Cape Wrath, and many of the hills in the far North West (e.g. Beinn Spionnaidh, Cranstackie, Foinaven, and probably some of the wee hills East of Sandwood Bay), you can see the Isle of Lewis to the West, and the Orkney Islands to the East (do they count as East coast as well as North?)

In reply to DH3631:

From Meall nan Suireamach above the Quiraing you can see both St Kilda and Ben Wyvis, had that a couple of times (once with an American group who were very blase about the distances involved!). Not quite to the East Coast but pretty close. My best N to S is Morven to to the Moorfoots from Macdui one winter.

In reply to Iain Thow:


I've had that too - or at least from Beinn Edra a bit further along the ridge. Was possibly the clearest day I've ever been out (19 Oct 1999). The whole western seaboard was as sharp as you could want it, and the two main parts of St Kilda could easily be seen with the naked eye.

In reply to Dave Hewitt:

Hi Dave,
one of my clearest days too. I couldn't believe what I was seeing at first , was pointing out Roineabhal to the group and mentioning the superquarry enquiry and then saw the unmistakeable spikes.

In reply to Iain Thow:


Wonder how often you get a day as clear as that? Say you included every upland area in the UK, there are perhaps three or four exceptionally clear days each year - 100-mile view days. My pal Gordon Ingall who is out in the Lakes a lot reckons he sees Wales - at about 100 miles - two or three times per year. That day in 1999 felt better than that, however, perhaps because it was sharp all round - the detail of the mainland west coast hills as seen from Skye was amazing, and the Kilda islands were as clear as anything at 85 or so miles away could really be. That felt like a one in five years kind of day, possibly one in ten years.

5 Sept 1992 was also very good - I was on Merrick and could see all sorts, eg Cruachan at 93 miles was very obvious, ditto various things in Ireland; I've been annoyed at myself ever since for not looking for the fabled Snowdon view - 144 miles and never known to have been seen, but that was the kind of day when it might just have been possible.

Were you also out on 29 Dec 1985? That was a famously good day in terms of a combination of snow conditions, absolute stillness and visibility. Tom Weir was on Stob Ghabhar and wrote that it was the best Scottish day he'd known in terms of overall conditions; I was on the eastern Mamores and it's still the best I've ever been out in. There was snow down to the road (-19C at sea level the night before) and you could hear people talking - just normal conversations, not shouting - on ridges a mile away.

Happy days. Hope you're keeping well, anyway.

In reply to keith-ratcliffe:

Tinto Hill near lanark supposedly has views of both coasts, never seen them both myself though.

In reply to keith-ratcliffe:

There must be loads. About a month ago we were on Tom a Choinich above Glen Affric and could see Harris and the Moray Forth.

In reply to Dave Hewitt:
Dec 85 I was crocked up with a back injury after falling off the Roaches soloing (lucky not to be in a wheelchair), 5th sept 92 was a wet day in Kerry but 19 oct 99 was very clear for me too, in the Forest of Bowland. The last day mainly memorable for breaking down in the fast lane of the M60 in the rush hour though. I reckon Gordon's 3 exceptionally clear days a year is about right (I'm only in Wales 4 or 5 days a year these days, but usually see the Lakes and Ireland on one of them - I pick good days though).
Days as clear as the 2 St Kilda from Skye days? I've maybe had a dozen (out of about 7000 hill days spread over 40 years). Apart from the 2 St Kilda from Skye ones the others would be Galloway from Carnedd y Filiast, Ben Lomond from Blencathra (I think, certainly one snowy point beyond the non-snowy Southern Uplands), a ludicrously clear Wicklow from Pembrokeshire, half of Ireland from Knockmealdown, detail on the Cairngorms from Ben Loyal, the whole NW coast looking stone throwing distance from Beinn Bhragar in Lewis, something that we thought was Donegal from Sgurr Alasdair, Morven to Moorfoots twice and a day on Rum when it felt like you could jump to Eigg.

In reply to Name Changed 34:

I understand that you can see both the Irish and North seas from the top of Mickle Fell.
Ok, it's in county Durham now and not in Yorkshire anymore but...................................

In reply to Iain Thow:


7000 hill days is good going. I've been at it 35 years and haven't worked out an exact(ish) figure, but Munro days have just passed 900 and Ochils generally stand at 1500 or so. Even with other stuff I'd be surprised if my total is much over 4000, if that - and I'm reckoned to be out a lot.


That's exceptional if you were indeed seeing Galloway - it's getting into Snowdon-Merrick territory and Jonathan de Ferranti (the Viewfinders bloke) would probably be keen to hear details.


I'm not sure that's possible. A few years ago I became curious as to whether Skiddaw and Ben Lomond were intervisible assuming no mega refraction, so I asked Grant Hutchison who has an interest in such matters and the calculatory nous to work things out. I can't offhand recall the exact figures he produced (I'll see if I can dig them out), but the answer seemed to be no at a more substantial level than I'd expected - it was something like both hills would have to be 100m higher, or one of them 200m higher, for it to work. And of course Blencathra is a little lower than Skiddaw.

Having said that, JdF reckons you can see an impressive amount of Lakes stuff on a very clear day from Tinto, including Wetherlam which is remarkable if true: http://viewfinderpanoramas.org/panoramas/UPL/TINTO.GIF
The gaps appear to line up perfectly. So on that basis it does feel like Skiddaw/Blencathra from Ben Lomond can't be far off being feasible - but I trust my pal's maths.


Could just about have been, but it's a push and a very long way. JdF doesn't give anything in Ireland from Sgurr Alasdair: http://viewfinderpanoramas.org/panoramas/ISL/SKYE_Alasdair.GIF
but in the reverse view, from Errigal, he has a hefty chunk of Ben More Mull at 127 miles:
http://viewfinderpanoramas.org/panoramas/IRL/ERRIGAL.GIF
It'd be getting into 150-mile range to see the Cuillin, though.

Re great days, 23 July 2010 was exceptionally clear for a proper summer's day - it was Ken Stewart's second Munro completion and we lounged around on top of Carn Dearg in the Monadliath in genuine warmth trying to work out if we could see Skye. Some days it's hard to be sure just how good it might be because of where you are. I was up the Wrekin on 7 Oct 1997 and it was like everything was being seen in high definition, but whether that would have translated into 120-mile views from higher summits I don't know.

In reply to Iain Thow:

Re the Skiddaw-Lomond thing, I've found Grant H's email (from 2009!) and he reckoned it needs somewhere around 250m on the top of each hill (a fair bit more than I'd thought), or a much lower dip in the relevant part of the Borders than actually exists. Refraction would help to an extent, but if those figures are right then it'd be a real struggle to see Ben Lomond from Blencathra even on a brilliant day. Basically it looks like both hills would need to be Ben Lawers-ish in height for it to work in normal circumstances.

In reply to Dave Hewitt:

Wasn't really sure, and didn't take a bearing, so maybe it was Tinto? There was just one fairly pointy snowy top which seemed well beyond the Annandale/Lowthers. My feeling was that it was a bit far west to be Tinto, but it was well beyond my map so could easily be wrong.
Galloway from Filiast I'm sure of, as I could see the Lakes, Wicklow and the Mournes too, and the IOM seemed close. No idea which hill though, Cairnsmore of Fleet?

In reply to Brookie:

I have not topped it but emley moor mast, I was told gives a view of E&W coast if its clear ------if!

In reply to Dave Hewitt:

Just been fiddling about with the panoramas on that German site. It reckons Conachair is visible from Baosbheinn and Beinn Eighe too. Gives Mullwharchar as furthest visible from Carnedd y Filiast, but oddly Carnedd Llewelyn as furthest the other way, which is shorter. Gives Mull as furthest from both Errigal and Slieve Snaght.

In reply to keith-ratcliffe:
Thanks everyone for your contributions - rather than asking if there were other Coast to Coast views I should have just asked for which others......?
Having said that I will champion Cockleroy because it is so low - 298m - it took 10 minutes to get to the top! It sure gives bang for buck.

In reply to Dave Perry:



Shetland. Saying "the Shetlands" is like saying "the Britains". Unless you're referring to some little ponies.

In reply to Name Changed 34:

Great Whernside (the one near Kettlewell, not the Three Peaks Whernside) is quite well known for it according to an old issue of "The Dalesman". Looking at the map it seems highly likely.

In reply to Andy Long:

Well a Quick look at google say Great Whernside is c.150 M so if you can from Emley so why not ,
is the dalesman still going?

In reply to Name Changed 34:



I think so. Gt. Whernside gets 704m on the map.

In reply to Andy Long:

Sorry Great Whernside is c. [[[[[[More]]]] than 150M above the top of the top of the mast on Emley moor
sometimes I'm as clear as the fog

In reply to Name Changed 34:

Thought it must be something like that!
Lines of view are at least as important as height. From Gt. Whernside there appears to be a clear view to the NE down the eastern slope of the Pennines, then across the Vale of Mowbray and the Cleveland Plain to the North Sea. The hills to the immediate SW around Malham are a lot lower and beyond them there's an unimpeded view down the Ribble Valley to the Irish Sea. It's a long trip south for me but a good excuse to visit old haunts if the weather looks promising!

In reply to keith-ratcliffe:

As mentioned earlier in this thread, both coasts are supposedly visible from Mickle Fell, 2591 feet, Co. Durham (was in the North Riding before boundary change)- here is the relevant text from English Mountain Summits by Nick Wright :

'The summit is rather disappointing. There are a few slabs of rock above the limestone escarpment and a few old pits, but one is unlikely to see any grouse, unlikely to notice anything exceptional about the grass and even less likely to be able to see the North and Irish Seas, both of which are said to be visible from the top'.

In reply to Andy Long:

Andy, I was just about to jump down your thought - but looked at your location. I'm afraid my terminology might not be 100% - it was 40 years ago so can I be forgiven for adding an 's'? Magical place too.

In reply to Dave Perry:

I shouldn't have been so abrupt and added "please" after "Shetland". It was one of the first things I was made aware of when I moved here over 30 years ago. It's still a magical place.

In reply to Name Changed 34:

I wonder what you would have seen if you were a bird on the old mast on the day that it fell down?

In reply to Iain Thow:


Looks like it might have been Tinto - JdF has it sticking up nicely between the Lowther/Daer hills and the Moffat bunch:
http://www.viewfinderpanoramas.org/panoramas/ENGP/BLENCATHRA.png
For it to be snowy and the nearer things to be snowless would need a localised distribution given that Hart Fell is 100m higher, but these things do happen of course.

Incidentally does Arthur's Seat - the Edinburgh one, not the shoulder of Hart Fell that also goes by that name - have the least pleasant summit of any popular UK summit? I was up there again this evening after playing some rather iffy chess at the Edinburgh congress and it's ridiculously polished even in the dry, as well as being mobbed with selfie-obsessed tourists.

In reply to Andy Long:
It's a long trip south for me but a good excuse to visit old haunts if the weather looks promising!

I stick with the salt air,
Lines of sight are interesting in regards to the Broch and hill forts in the South-lands and Shetland.

In reply to veteye:



i did not know it had!
Fab view of it one evening this year from Black hill'ish A deep dark purple sky the land in darkens or shadow but the mast was still lit as the dark from the land made its way up. it showed its scale in the landscape.

Think the birds may have said - did you turn the light off?

In reply to keith-ratcliffe: I've seen the same features from from Ben Cluech as well.

In reply to Andy Long:

I was lucky enough to have the view from Gt Whernside on a v still, cold winter day c.15 years ago.