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To quote the well dressed beachcomber John Appleby:
"Love him or loathe him, you cannot deny that John Redhead is an authentic voice in the climbing world. Here in typically Redheadian fashion, John takes aim at Sports climbing, the Outdoor Media, and the soul-less commercialisation of outdoor activities."
What a great article, and one likely to upset at least 30% of those who read it, but hopefully more.
http://footlesscrow.blogspot.co.uk/2016/04/sinking-like-stone.html
"Love him or loathe him, you cannot deny that John Redhead is an authentic voice in the climbing world. Here in typically Redheadian fashion, John takes aim at Sports climbing, the Outdoor Media, and the soul-less commercialisation of outdoor activities."
What a great article, and one likely to upset at least 30% of those who read it, but hopefully more.
http://footlesscrow.blogspot.co.uk/2016/04/sinking-like-stone.html
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In reply to Frank the Husky:
I usually find his writing - unlike his climbing - pretentious analy retentive bollocks, but I think this is a really good piece of thinking and writing.
Creative, intelligible and unpretentious - in an essay from JR - who'd have thought?
> To quote the well dressed beachcomber John Appleby:
> "Love him or loathe him, you cannot deny that John Redhead is an authentic voice in the climbing world. Here in typically Redheadian fashion, John takes aim at Sports climbing, the Outdoor Media, and the soul-less commercialisation of outdoor activities."
> What a great article, and one likely to upset at least 30% of those who read it, but hopefully more.
I usually find his writing - unlike his climbing - pretentious analy retentive bollocks, but I think this is a really good piece of thinking and writing.
Creative, intelligible and unpretentious - in an essay from JR - who'd have thought?
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In reply to Frank the Husky:
Hmmm. All seems a bit half-hearted and synthetic to me, like someone living up to a reputation.
It's also a bit rich to sneer about people climbing on artificial bouldering walls next a photo of yourself with a sledgehammer creating an artificial bouldering wall (whether it was once quarried or not).
Hmmm. All seems a bit half-hearted and synthetic to me, like someone living up to a reputation.
It's also a bit rich to sneer about people climbing on artificial bouldering walls next a photo of yourself with a sledgehammer creating an artificial bouldering wall (whether it was once quarried or not).
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In reply to DaveHK:
I salute you for living up to my expectations.
> Incoherent ramblings from a master of the genre.
I salute you for living up to my expectations.
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In reply to Frank the Husky:
Personally I was mostly loving the article appearing to the left of a sidebar containing adverts for Kit Shack, Vertebrate Publishing and Hot Aches Productions among others.
> "Love him or loathe him, you cannot deny that John Redhead is an authentic voice in the climbing world. Here in typically Redheadian fashion, John takes aim at Sports climbing, the Outdoor Media, and the soul-less commercialisation of outdoor activities."
Personally I was mostly loving the article appearing to the left of a sidebar containing adverts for Kit Shack, Vertebrate Publishing and Hot Aches Productions among others.
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In reply to Dave Garnett: I suspect the hammer was used to break up boulders that might snap ankles etc. Aren't we all living up to our repuations anyway?
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In reply to Frank the Husky:
Great piece!
"I pause in wonder as twenty or thirty head-torches manifest heads and bodies and legs and mumbling charge towards me. I dash onto the pavement to prevent collision. What the f*ck! I look back at their luminous tops – What the f*ck! Runners!
A little later, a silent, barefoot group in wet suits, looking like a huge multi-headed seal anthropomorph, ambles towards the lake… what the f*ck! Swimmers!
I had previously been held up on the road behind skeletal-buttocked, lycra-clad, heads down, could be anywhere, counting calories, monitoring heartbeat, and calculating elevation… what the f*ck road cyclists! Get on a f*cking hamster wheel f*ckers! "
Great piece!
"I pause in wonder as twenty or thirty head-torches manifest heads and bodies and legs and mumbling charge towards me. I dash onto the pavement to prevent collision. What the f*ck! I look back at their luminous tops – What the f*ck! Runners!
A little later, a silent, barefoot group in wet suits, looking like a huge multi-headed seal anthropomorph, ambles towards the lake… what the f*ck! Swimmers!
I had previously been held up on the road behind skeletal-buttocked, lycra-clad, heads down, could be anywhere, counting calories, monitoring heartbeat, and calculating elevation… what the f*ck road cyclists! Get on a f*cking hamster wheel f*ckers! "
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In reply to Frank the Husky:
An authentic voice, sure, and at times delightfully poetic but I wish he was a bit more focussed and at times he approaches unhelpful incoherence. With his mix of artist and commentator he is playing burlesque games with his message. Never boring though.
On incoherence, the following seems to me to be complete bollocks:
"I see the banal uni-sexed product of sports climbing as a sad, limp offshoot of the plague of the modern feminist agenda; this sickly sweet swamp of a people-bath emanates a nihilism on a par with the macho-laden boys of summer, charging and stamping their tribal machismo profanely across most of the special places on this wounded and ailing planet."
For f*cks sake: sports climbers bizzarly strained of character and spirit by diseased feminism (which in the modern world has many forms but in the majority form is really just about political gender equality) and then this straw 'man' is equated with crimes to the planet and its population.
An authentic voice, sure, and at times delightfully poetic but I wish he was a bit more focussed and at times he approaches unhelpful incoherence. With his mix of artist and commentator he is playing burlesque games with his message. Never boring though.
On incoherence, the following seems to me to be complete bollocks:
"I see the banal uni-sexed product of sports climbing as a sad, limp offshoot of the plague of the modern feminist agenda; this sickly sweet swamp of a people-bath emanates a nihilism on a par with the macho-laden boys of summer, charging and stamping their tribal machismo profanely across most of the special places on this wounded and ailing planet."
For f*cks sake: sports climbers bizzarly strained of character and spirit by diseased feminism (which in the modern world has many forms but in the majority form is really just about political gender equality) and then this straw 'man' is equated with crimes to the planet and its population.
Post edited at 15:48
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In reply to Offwidth:
I agree. I always found a John a friendly chap when I used to be inspired by him moving on coloured grips on the old Liverpool YMCA wall. But really, this? "Everybody who doesn't have the same priorities and enjoy the same things as I do is a corporate zombie". F*ck off.
I agree. I always found a John a friendly chap when I used to be inspired by him moving on coloured grips on the old Liverpool YMCA wall. But really, this? "Everybody who doesn't have the same priorities and enjoy the same things as I do is a corporate zombie". F*ck off.
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In reply to Frank the Husky:
Great read! , I do agree in the most part although I do feel climbing is what ever you want it to be really , if you want to do the whole numbers game then what ever floats your boat like but I know why I climb (even though it isn't perticlularly hard) and I love it
Great read! , I do agree in the most part although I do feel climbing is what ever you want it to be really , if you want to do the whole numbers game then what ever floats your boat like but I know why I climb (even though it isn't perticlularly hard) and I love it
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In reply to Frank the Husky:
I agree with some of it, other forms of climbing and the trend for indoor climbing rather that outdoors doesnt bother me at all because it doesnt stop me from having my own adventures, it probably keeps things less busy out there. But I don't like how climbing is becoming so commercialised, and how its merging with soy latte culture. That's why I took up potholing it feels a lot more genuine (rouges with rollups Don Whillans style rather than sponsored athletes).
I agree with some of it, other forms of climbing and the trend for indoor climbing rather that outdoors doesnt bother me at all because it doesnt stop me from having my own adventures, it probably keeps things less busy out there. But I don't like how climbing is becoming so commercialised, and how its merging with soy latte culture. That's why I took up potholing it feels a lot more genuine (rouges with rollups Don Whillans style rather than sponsored athletes).
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In reply to Red Rover:
I never really get the thing about climbing becoming commercialized. I go out, I climb. Maybe I buy a cafe breakfast or a pint and a fish supper afterwards. I guess I pay the entry fee at the wall when I go and replace my shoes when they fall apart? I don't tweet about how I'm totally psyched for this mucky severe #northface #scarpa, I don't instagram my #clifbars, and I pay fairly limited attention to people who do. I know a lot of people - many of them from "the new generation of wall-bred climbers" - who do the same. So I don't really see why "commercialization" is something I should worry about.
I never really get the thing about climbing becoming commercialized. I go out, I climb. Maybe I buy a cafe breakfast or a pint and a fish supper afterwards. I guess I pay the entry fee at the wall when I go and replace my shoes when they fall apart? I don't tweet about how I'm totally psyched for this mucky severe #northface #scarpa, I don't instagram my #clifbars, and I pay fairly limited attention to people who do. I know a lot of people - many of them from "the new generation of wall-bred climbers" - who do the same. So I don't really see why "commercialization" is something I should worry about.
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In reply to Ramblin dave:
People have been complaining about the commercialisation of climbing since it began. In this regard Redhead's message is not alternative but deeply conventional.
> I never really get the thing about climbing becoming commercialized.
People have been complaining about the commercialisation of climbing since it began. In this regard Redhead's message is not alternative but deeply conventional.
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In reply to DaveHK:
I was thinking that as I was leafing through The Games Climbers Play the other day:
"What was once a way of life that only attracted the oddball individual is now a healthy, upstanding, recreational pastime enjoyed by thousands of average Joes. The climbing scene has become a fad and the common man is bringing the Art down to his own level of values and competence."
Yvon Chouinard, writing in, er, 1972...
I was thinking that as I was leafing through The Games Climbers Play the other day:
"What was once a way of life that only attracted the oddball individual is now a healthy, upstanding, recreational pastime enjoyed by thousands of average Joes. The climbing scene has become a fad and the common man is bringing the Art down to his own level of values and competence."
Yvon Chouinard, writing in, er, 1972...
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In reply to Frank the Husky:
"This is Martin’s mountain toolshed. It is scattered over many a hill and woodland with items liberated from neat, cedar wood B&Q sheds, in the sodden and barren enclosures of ‘outdoorsy-ville’"
Reminds me of Redhead's advice for aspiring leaders of serious routes in And One for the Crow. He reckoned that a good way to build up the tolerance to adrenaline required to lead really serious routes was to shoplift climbing gear. Apparently, the better known the climber is the more difficult the shoplifting process becomes.
"This is Martin’s mountain toolshed. It is scattered over many a hill and woodland with items liberated from neat, cedar wood B&Q sheds, in the sodden and barren enclosures of ‘outdoorsy-ville’"
Reminds me of Redhead's advice for aspiring leaders of serious routes in And One for the Crow. He reckoned that a good way to build up the tolerance to adrenaline required to lead really serious routes was to shoplift climbing gear. Apparently, the better known the climber is the more difficult the shoplifting process becomes.
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In reply to John2:
Yeah, I noticed the 'liberated' cliché too. I wasn't sure that he was really saying that breaking into other peoples' sheds was part of his rugged individualist chic but I'd forgotten his earlier advice.
> Reminds me of Redhead's advice for aspiring leaders of serious routes in And One for the Crow. He reckoned that a good way to build up the tolerance to adrenaline required to lead really serious routes was to shoplift climbing gear. Apparently, the better known the climber is the more difficult the shoplifting process becomes.
Yeah, I noticed the 'liberated' cliché too. I wasn't sure that he was really saying that breaking into other peoples' sheds was part of his rugged individualist chic but I'd forgotten his earlier advice.
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In reply to Offwidth:
I was confused too. Is that what the sledgehammer is for?
> "nihilism on a par with the macho-laden boys of summer, charging and stamping their tribal machismo profanely across most of the special places on this wounded and ailing planet."
I was confused too. Is that what the sledgehammer is for?
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In reply to Dave Garnett:
I assume that the Martin referred to is Martin Crook. I have heard it said that his surname is not inappropriate, but maybe for Liverpool it's normal.
I assume that the Martin referred to is Martin Crook. I have heard it said that his surname is not inappropriate, but maybe for Liverpool it's normal.
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In reply to John2:
Rather tasteless, especially considering this particular moment.
> I assume that the Martin referred to is Martin Crook. I have heard it said that his surname is not inappropriate, but maybe for Liverpool it's normal.
Rather tasteless, especially considering this particular moment.
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In reply to Frank the Husky:
Classic stuff, always good to have some poking of the more bland and sterile aspects of climbing - more people on here should heed that.
The setting for it must be fairly old, this was wall above the sledgehammered block last summer:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=265528
Classic stuff, always good to have some poking of the more bland and sterile aspects of climbing - more people on here should heed that.
The setting for it must be fairly old, this was wall above the sledgehammered block last summer:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.php?id=265528
In reply to John2:
Hillsborough inquiry, with special reference to the slurs and slanders put about by South Yorkshire Police, and the Sun.
> Which particular moment?
Hillsborough inquiry, with special reference to the slurs and slanders put about by South Yorkshire Police, and the Sun.
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In reply to Ramblin dave:
Those are great hashtags! I'll use them for
My next insta post cheers mate.
Elliott.
(dude who mainly climbs indoors, Thinks I'm a badass because I can send a vs on a good day, and just got #shutdown in the blanca but got some great shots from doing so)
Those are great hashtags! I'll use them for
My next insta post cheers mate.
Elliott.
(dude who mainly climbs indoors, Thinks I'm a badass because I can send a vs on a good day, and just got #shutdown in the blanca but got some great shots from doing so)
In reply to David Alcock:
Did the South Yorkshire police or the Sun accuse Liverpool football fans of being prone to theft? As I understand it, the initial problem was that fans outside the ground pushed those ahead of them so hard that people were crushed to death, and the police responsible for controlling the situation falsified their evidence. Nothing to do with theft.
Did the South Yorkshire police or the Sun accuse Liverpool football fans of being prone to theft? As I understand it, the initial problem was that fans outside the ground pushed those ahead of them so hard that people were crushed to death, and the police responsible for controlling the situation falsified their evidence. Nothing to do with theft.
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In reply to John2:
First link for you:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9540181/Hillsborough-T...
tldr: Sun accused Liverpool supporters of pickpocketing victims. Plenty more to read if you Google Hillsborough and Sun. Fill yer boots.
First link for you:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9540181/Hillsborough-T...
tldr: Sun accused Liverpool supporters of pickpocketing victims. Plenty more to read if you Google Hillsborough and Sun. Fill yer boots.
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In reply to Frank the Husky:
Back to the topic...
I like JR's writing. It might be an acquired taste for some. At least he tries to express the fundamental essence of our bizarre activity: push yourself till you might die, and then escape, at whatever extremity you might care to apply.
I think 'sport' in this sense applies to the attitude of safety, of movement for the sake of it, the avoidance of real risk, and the inevitable complacency that derives from this squeaky-clean mindset. I've got nothing against sport climbers, wall climbers, but I wouldn't climb for simply that. I dont climb to feel 'safe'. That's my interpretation anyway.
Anyway, we're all 'marginal', whatever we do.
Back to the topic...
I like JR's writing. It might be an acquired taste for some. At least he tries to express the fundamental essence of our bizarre activity: push yourself till you might die, and then escape, at whatever extremity you might care to apply.
I think 'sport' in this sense applies to the attitude of safety, of movement for the sake of it, the avoidance of real risk, and the inevitable complacency that derives from this squeaky-clean mindset. I've got nothing against sport climbers, wall climbers, but I wouldn't climb for simply that. I dont climb to feel 'safe'. That's my interpretation anyway.
Anyway, we're all 'marginal', whatever we do.
Post edited at 19:57
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In reply to Frank the Husky:
It's very rambling but he quotes Malatesta so it gets a thumbs up from me.
It's very rambling but he quotes Malatesta so it gets a thumbs up from me.
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In reply to Frank the Husky:
Yawn about the holier-than-thou attitude to 'sports' people. This attitude is like a century old and yet people still lap it up.
Yawn about the holier-than-thou attitude to 'sports' people. This attitude is like a century old and yet people still lap it up.
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In reply to Frank the Husky:
seems a bit doggy in the manger to me. too many other people having fun running swimming and cycling, getting in his way and not doing it the Old Skool way. And whats his problem with feminists, did Germaine Greer bolt his trad project or something? Lighten up JR , there's room for everyone.
seems a bit doggy in the manger to me. too many other people having fun running swimming and cycling, getting in his way and not doing it the Old Skool way. And whats his problem with feminists, did Germaine Greer bolt his trad project or something? Lighten up JR , there's room for everyone.
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In reply to David Alcock:
Maybe, and those are all ideas I would have some sympathy with. Shame about all the other random bile and hypocrisy.
In any event the piece would certainly have been a lot better if you had written it!
> I think 'sport' in this sense applies to the attitude of safety, of movement for the sake of it, the avoidance of real risk, and the inevitable complacency that derives from this squeaky-clean mindset. I've got nothing against sport climbers, wall climbers, but I wouldn't climb for simply that. I dont climb to feel 'safe'. That's my interpretation anyway.
Maybe, and those are all ideas I would have some sympathy with. Shame about all the other random bile and hypocrisy.
In any event the piece would certainly have been a lot better if you had written it!
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In reply to David Alcock:
JR is a rarity: a climber who did push himself until he might die. Most trad climbers basking in his views and feeling superior are plain deluded: they are usually as risk free as his overt sports climber targets and probably regarded in the same way by him.
He does split opinions: I remember his session on 'Welsh climbing history' at Kendal. I was mesmerised, some friends of mine hated it and claimed they had been conned in spending money on it.
JR is a rarity: a climber who did push himself until he might die. Most trad climbers basking in his views and feeling superior are plain deluded: they are usually as risk free as his overt sports climber targets and probably regarded in the same way by him.
He does split opinions: I remember his session on 'Welsh climbing history' at Kendal. I was mesmerised, some friends of mine hated it and claimed they had been conned in spending money on it.
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In reply to Offwidth:
Very well put. I've been mainly sport climbing of late, but even when I trad climb I'm not particularly bold, and I'm quite glad about it in some ways. I can go out and have some fun and excitement, and if the worst happens, I'm very likely to walk away relatively unscathed. I'm not really that bothered what JR thinks of me, but it's a pity some people feel the need to be so judgemental.
> JR is a rarity: a climber who did push himself until he might die. Most trad climbers basking in his views and feeling superior are plain deluded: they are usually as risk free as his overt sports climber targets and probably regarded in the same way by him.
Very well put. I've been mainly sport climbing of late, but even when I trad climb I'm not particularly bold, and I'm quite glad about it in some ways. I can go out and have some fun and excitement, and if the worst happens, I'm very likely to walk away relatively unscathed. I'm not really that bothered what JR thinks of me, but it's a pity some people feel the need to be so judgemental.
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In reply to Frank the Husky:
Seems like there is a lot of intolerance in here - if you are not like me then you are wrong, sport climbers, cyclists, indoor climbers, runners, feminists, people who buy things are ok to steal from - how would John feel about someone nicking his computer - not happy I imagine.
I have huge respect for JR as a climber but feel he needs to have a little more respect for everyone else, tolerance, if they are not impacting on you then each to their own.
On a different tack anybody thought of arranging for Stevie Haston and JR to share a tent for a night or two, the results would be interesting.
Seems like there is a lot of intolerance in here - if you are not like me then you are wrong, sport climbers, cyclists, indoor climbers, runners, feminists, people who buy things are ok to steal from - how would John feel about someone nicking his computer - not happy I imagine.
I have huge respect for JR as a climber but feel he needs to have a little more respect for everyone else, tolerance, if they are not impacting on you then each to their own.
On a different tack anybody thought of arranging for Stevie Haston and JR to share a tent for a night or two, the results would be interesting.
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In reply to Frank the Husky:
JR! With Stevie in a tent ... heaven's above .. they 'know' each other, doubtless similar minds would collide - yet likely agree, and laugh, with not much sleep.
If nothing else, it's great to read John's latest 'spew' ... a refreshing change from the banal drivel of 'the purple route' and that 'volume' indoors on a sunny day when the grit is at it's finest or North Stack Wall is basking in the afternoon sun ...
To quote John from 'Punk ...':
'This sudden 'wreakage' unravels information. It breaks the spell. It dissolves the ego and reveals the hidden strength of the unknown - and in this we all talk to 'The Stranger'.
I met 'The Stranger' ... but only once ... Definitely not the person to take home to meet the family, believe me, scary as all f*ck!
Recently a very dear and close old friend took his daughter and me to their local indoor facility so she could introduce me to her beau ... he was up on the wall with a battery drill screwing on a 'green' hold. He nonchalantly grunted something by way of a 'hi' I think. Such a different 'scene' these days ... I can weep for the eighties - but there's nobody now to turn to for a friendly hug.
This is why JR's writing is so refereshing ... or perhaps I'm just being a romantic 'old fart'?
I'll go away now.
Cheers,
Andy.
JR! With Stevie in a tent ... heaven's above .. they 'know' each other, doubtless similar minds would collide - yet likely agree, and laugh, with not much sleep.
If nothing else, it's great to read John's latest 'spew' ... a refreshing change from the banal drivel of 'the purple route' and that 'volume' indoors on a sunny day when the grit is at it's finest or North Stack Wall is basking in the afternoon sun ...
To quote John from 'Punk ...':
'This sudden 'wreakage' unravels information. It breaks the spell. It dissolves the ego and reveals the hidden strength of the unknown - and in this we all talk to 'The Stranger'.
I met 'The Stranger' ... but only once ... Definitely not the person to take home to meet the family, believe me, scary as all f*ck!
Recently a very dear and close old friend took his daughter and me to their local indoor facility so she could introduce me to her beau ... he was up on the wall with a battery drill screwing on a 'green' hold. He nonchalantly grunted something by way of a 'hi' I think. Such a different 'scene' these days ... I can weep for the eighties - but there's nobody now to turn to for a friendly hug.
This is why JR's writing is so refereshing ... or perhaps I'm just being a romantic 'old fart'?
I'll go away now.
Cheers,
Andy.
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In reply to AP Melbourne:
I started climbing in the 80s at the back end of my PhD with my partner who was a nurse ... the local climbing club was macho, very white, cold to outsiders and highly elitist. The hugging wasnt very obvious. The student club we chose in contrast was friendly (and had a much wider mix of people). Thanks to the british weather and student timetables we did a lot of development stuff on brick and concrete (as our club students did for almost two decades before and after) but like all rock addicts we got outdoors whenever we could. We had people doing everything from bouldering to himalayan expeditions but mostly UK trad.
For all you know the next indoor wall worker you meet is just doing a job to earn money like any of us and will be out on real rock at the first opportunity. Have you even looked at the list of names of people who run these things?
You are transfering your story to produce a myth.
I started climbing in the 80s at the back end of my PhD with my partner who was a nurse ... the local climbing club was macho, very white, cold to outsiders and highly elitist. The hugging wasnt very obvious. The student club we chose in contrast was friendly (and had a much wider mix of people). Thanks to the british weather and student timetables we did a lot of development stuff on brick and concrete (as our club students did for almost two decades before and after) but like all rock addicts we got outdoors whenever we could. We had people doing everything from bouldering to himalayan expeditions but mostly UK trad.
For all you know the next indoor wall worker you meet is just doing a job to earn money like any of us and will be out on real rock at the first opportunity. Have you even looked at the list of names of people who run these things?
You are transfering your story to produce a myth.
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In reply to pebbles:
That's beautiful. Though I think Germaine Greer is pretty much the John Redhead of feminism nowadays; they should meet, they'd probably get on wonderfully.
> did Germaine Greer bolt his trad project or something?
That's beautiful. Though I think Germaine Greer is pretty much the John Redhead of feminism nowadays; they should meet, they'd probably get on wonderfully.
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In reply to Offwidth:
Who are these people? Of the many trad climbers I know, I don't think any of them have such pretensions.
> Most trad climbers basking in his views and feeling superior are plain deluded
Who are these people? Of the many trad climbers I know, I don't think any of them have such pretensions.
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In reply to Frank the Husky:
JR may be a self-awareness bypass and push into nonsense in bits, but I think his intent is as much to entertain as to provoke, and he does both pretty well.
JR may be a self-awareness bypass and push into nonsense in bits, but I think his intent is as much to entertain as to provoke, and he does both pretty well.
In reply to AP Melbourne:
If I hadn't run into the purple route and that volume indoors, in the middle of London, I wouldn't be here right now, packing up my trad gear for a sunny day on the grit, having abruptly rearranged my entire life for the chance to do so more often.
And the route-setters I know tend to be obsessive climbers who get outdoors as much as possible. Working at a climbing wall is one way to subsidize a climbing habit (can't have a climbing career on the dole these days, recent governments being less generous in that respect than Thatcher ...).
The scene might look different (though I keep hearing that Lycra's due for a revival), but the rock's the same. And some people are getting to meet it who'd never have had the chance before.
And it's a scene which I have found very kind and welcoming to the odd and the eccentric and the crazy, fortunately for me.
It's one thing to have qualms about the mainstreaming of climbing or its being subsumed into generic sports/fitness; god knows I have those qualms too.
But that's different from assuming that you can tell from a glance that anyone who's different from you can't possibly be having a real or meaningful experience.
There's irony in the idea that John Redhead's become a sacred cow (sacred crow, perhaps?) whose views have to be treated with sanctimonious reverence because of his "authenticity"; that hardly seems fitting.
(But then, I'm one of those plague-y feminists, as well as someone who began climbing indoors; he wouldn't like me anyway.)
If I hadn't run into the purple route and that volume indoors, in the middle of London, I wouldn't be here right now, packing up my trad gear for a sunny day on the grit, having abruptly rearranged my entire life for the chance to do so more often.
And the route-setters I know tend to be obsessive climbers who get outdoors as much as possible. Working at a climbing wall is one way to subsidize a climbing habit (can't have a climbing career on the dole these days, recent governments being less generous in that respect than Thatcher ...).
The scene might look different (though I keep hearing that Lycra's due for a revival), but the rock's the same. And some people are getting to meet it who'd never have had the chance before.
And it's a scene which I have found very kind and welcoming to the odd and the eccentric and the crazy, fortunately for me.
It's one thing to have qualms about the mainstreaming of climbing or its being subsumed into generic sports/fitness; god knows I have those qualms too.
But that's different from assuming that you can tell from a glance that anyone who's different from you can't possibly be having a real or meaningful experience.
There's irony in the idea that John Redhead's become a sacred cow (sacred crow, perhaps?) whose views have to be treated with sanctimonious reverence because of his "authenticity"; that hardly seems fitting.
(But then, I'm one of those plague-y feminists, as well as someone who began climbing indoors; he wouldn't like me anyway.)
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In reply to David Alcock:
...
It kind of sounds like you do.
> I think 'sport' in this sense applies to the attitude of safety, of movement for the sake of it, the avoidance of real risk, and the inevitable complacency that derives from this squeaky-clean mindset.
...
> I've got nothing against sport climbers, wall climbers...
It kind of sounds like you do.
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"Sport is generally the fear of helplessness in a meaningless, fragmented world…so lets be brave man and show the f*ckers who’s who… enter the hero with a thousand poses. He will be loved.
Decline of the mysteries and sacred experience enforced self-reflection and alienation, dispossession and narcissism… Gnostic thought."
Adolescent tosh from a grumpy old man.
Decline of the mysteries and sacred experience enforced self-reflection and alienation, dispossession and narcissism… Gnostic thought."
Adolescent tosh from a grumpy old man.
3
In reply to slab_happy:
I don't get that impression. Opinion seems, naturally, split on the subject of whether this is incisive commentary or meandering gibberish.
> There's irony in the idea that John Redhead's become a sacred cow (sacred crow, perhaps?) whose views have to be treated with sanctimonious reverence because of his "authenticity"; that hardly seems fitting.
I don't get that impression. Opinion seems, naturally, split on the subject of whether this is incisive commentary or meandering gibberish.
1
In reply to AP Melbourne:
Hi Andy, just making some coffee to take along with me, off for the day on Stanage. Lovely sunny day. 56 years old yesterday, and yours, Jerry and Ben's books make me pretty melancholy for the '80s. However, after a diversion to a little project towards Stanage End, we'll head towards the Plantation, where, if you de focus your eyes, it could be '86. Even Lycra tights are making a comeback. The 'scene', esp. Bouldering is still most definitely alive and kicking. Might even run into Ron.
I don't think things are as bad as you think, obvs. Living in Melbourne is a poor substitute for Hunters Bar. Chin up, and virtual hug!
Hi Andy, just making some coffee to take along with me, off for the day on Stanage. Lovely sunny day. 56 years old yesterday, and yours, Jerry and Ben's books make me pretty melancholy for the '80s. However, after a diversion to a little project towards Stanage End, we'll head towards the Plantation, where, if you de focus your eyes, it could be '86. Even Lycra tights are making a comeback. The 'scene', esp. Bouldering is still most definitely alive and kicking. Might even run into Ron.
I don't think things are as bad as you think, obvs. Living in Melbourne is a poor substitute for Hunters Bar. Chin up, and virtual hug!
1
In reply to Offwidth:
Oh no Offwidth! .. way too old and out of 'the game' these days ... no "myths" I promise.
More just reflection, reminiscence and ... wishing I was young again. That Strawberries pic in pink Lycra ... Gee, life was a blast back then with Jerry, Basher and Glenn Robbins.
You lucky b*strds ... God love you.
AP. x
Oh no Offwidth! .. way too old and out of 'the game' these days ... no "myths" I promise.
More just reflection, reminiscence and ... wishing I was young again. That Strawberries pic in pink Lycra ... Gee, life was a blast back then with Jerry, Basher and Glenn Robbins.
You lucky b*strds ... God love you.
AP. x
In reply to slab_happy:
Ha! What slab_happy, Lycra? A come-back, surely not, where's me rainbows ...? (still have'em actually - and the legs, Ha!)
No, seriously, a great post there.
Am not bitter, honest, and don't begrudge anybody their fun and antics on the plastic.
More - in my own odd way - just attempting to stand shoulder to shoulder with John., As a friend, ex adversary, competitor and 'warrior' he'd possibly say .
Am glad the 'purple route'in London got you inspired for going outdoors ... wasn't being disparaging (I really wasn't). Just a tad envious I suppose ... what with crash mats etc. Being young ... and ... oh shut up AP.
Alright, I'll go away again now.
PS. I like you - for what it's worth.
Cheers,
Andy.
Ha! What slab_happy, Lycra? A come-back, surely not, where's me rainbows ...? (still have'em actually - and the legs, Ha!)
No, seriously, a great post there.
Am not bitter, honest, and don't begrudge anybody their fun and antics on the plastic.
More - in my own odd way - just attempting to stand shoulder to shoulder with John., As a friend, ex adversary, competitor and 'warrior' he'd possibly say .
Am glad the 'purple route'in London got you inspired for going outdoors ... wasn't being disparaging (I really wasn't). Just a tad envious I suppose ... what with crash mats etc. Being young ... and ... oh shut up AP.
Alright, I'll go away again now.
PS. I like you - for what it's worth.
Cheers,
Andy.
2
In reply to Andy Moles:
You can find a few on this thread.
> Who are these people? Of the many trad climbers I know, I don't think any of them have such pretensions.
You can find a few on this thread.
In reply to planetmarshall:
The former was an interpretation, the latter was my opinion.
I have my preferences, of course, but don't have a problem with others doing their own thing - well, I'd probably be pissed off if bolts appeared everywhere, but you catch my drift I hope.
> ... It kind of sounds like you do.
The former was an interpretation, the latter was my opinion.
I have my preferences, of course, but don't have a problem with others doing their own thing - well, I'd probably be pissed off if bolts appeared everywhere, but you catch my drift I hope.
1
In reply to AP Melbourne:
Loved the book Andy. Took me back to my 80s youth. Ah, they were the days...
Loved the book Andy. Took me back to my 80s youth. Ah, they were the days...
1
In reply to David Alcock:
Fair enough.
> The former was an interpretation, the latter was my opinion.
> I have my preferences, of course, but don't have a problem with others doing their own thing - well, I'd probably be pissed off if bolts appeared everywhere, but you catch my drift I hope.
Fair enough.
In reply to Frank the Husky and all who sail in this thread's creaky vessel:
Tremendous stuff. I like JR, he's been an absolute gent whenever I've spoken to him about his art exhibitions at LLAMF. He's nothing like you imagine him to be, and he wants to know what you think and why.
Daft post-modernist polemic where nothing makes much cohesive sense is absolutely fine by me. That's what artists do.
Do not waste time seeking a soundproof shelter.
Tremendous stuff. I like JR, he's been an absolute gent whenever I've spoken to him about his art exhibitions at LLAMF. He's nothing like you imagine him to be, and he wants to know what you think and why.
Daft post-modernist polemic where nothing makes much cohesive sense is absolutely fine by me. That's what artists do.
Do not waste time seeking a soundproof shelter.
Post edited at 19:35
1
In reply to DaveHK:
Gwan then, name names! Who feels superior basking in a faux-Redhead self-image as serious risk-taker?
> You can find a few on this thread.
Gwan then, name names! Who feels superior basking in a faux-Redhead self-image as serious risk-taker?
In reply to AP Melbourne:
Thanks... just letting you know there are still wild and wonderful people climbing in the wall age (and some of them own walls).
Thanks... just letting you know there are still wild and wonderful people climbing in the wall age (and some of them own walls).
1
In reply to David Alcock: and Offwidth
Heck, thanks David, appreciate that. Wish I had a fraction of JR's talent for/with words though ... let alone a paint brush - we chatted just yesterday ... and laughed - somewhat irreverently (irrelevently?). John certainly generates 'interest' - and how interesting are some of the previous posts? Brilliant!
Offwidth: I don't doubt that for a second. Happy climbing to all. Whether it be indoors or out. Now, where are me Lycras and Scarpa Cragratz boots ...? I feel a come-back is on the cards. Ha! No way, scared of heights.
Heck, thanks David, appreciate that. Wish I had a fraction of JR's talent for/with words though ... let alone a paint brush - we chatted just yesterday ... and laughed - somewhat irreverently (irrelevently?). John certainly generates 'interest' - and how interesting are some of the previous posts? Brilliant!
Offwidth: I don't doubt that for a second. Happy climbing to all. Whether it be indoors or out. Now, where are me Lycras and Scarpa Cragratz boots ...? I feel a come-back is on the cards. Ha! No way, scared of heights.
1
Amusing if slightly uncoherent (and a bit reactionary re' the feminist nonsense).
Anyway I'd love to read a JR review of the "Wipper" climbing aid (as seen on another thread) https://thewhipper.com/ lolz
Post edited at 22:37
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