UKC

We are heading for doom and we will drag the rest of Europe ( if not the world ) with us if we vote to leave the EU.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36024492

In reply to Jim C:

Brown paper bag then

In reply to Jim C:

I thought we were a small island that didn't have any influence on the world.

In reply to Jim C:

Or maybe all the people who have been prophesying doom if we leave the EU will be exposed for the frauds that they are.

In reply to John2:

1) Maybe they will.
2) Maybe they won't
3) Maybe somewhere in between.

FWIW I think the EU is the boldest attempt ever to create an economically viable bloc that founded on principles of economic prosperity, the rule of law, environmental protection, sustainability, democracy and social justice. In fact, it's the only attempt.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

Insert rude word here

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:



Well said!

Let's not carp on about what's not quite right with it. Let's celebrate the fact that the EU has achieved so much. The historic reconciliation of France and Germany, the cementing of democracy in Spain, Portugal and Greece, the economic recovery from communism of most of eastern Europe, and a higher standard of living and quality of life in much of Europe than would have been achieved without the EU.

We in Britain should be proud to have contributed to that, not continually calculating the minutiae of whether we ourselves pay in marginally more than we get out (which I don't believe we do if you take all the benefits into account).

I'm committed to the cause as you can tell, and I'm campaigning for IN. If our area is typical there is work to be done to achieve an IN result on 23 June. No room at all for complacency.

Martin

In reply to Jim C:

Democracy might have been cemented in Greece, Spain and Portugal but the youth unemployment rates in those countries are 51.9%, 45.3% and 30%

In reply to Jim C:

If my memory serves me correctly the IMF predicted gloom and doom on leaving the erm and not joining the euro, the IMF was spectacularly wrong on both occasions.

In reply to icnoble:


Surely that is to do with economic policy and the state of the wider economy, not democracy. Or are you suggesting that democracy inherently produces youth unemployment?

The Euro might be a bad idea but the Euro and the EU are different things.

In reply to petellis:

I was not suggesting that democracy produces youth unemployment, but that not everything has been good for the European Union.The Euro and the EU might be different things but the euro would not exist without the EU.

In reply to Jim C:

Are there any trade contingencies in place in the event we do vote to leave?

Is the government already arranging deals should this be the case, or are they waiting to see what comes of the referendum?

In reply to GarethSL:

The mobile phone company 3 have just negotiated free roaming with Australia, Hong Kong, Indonesia, Israel, Macau, New Zealand, Switzerland and The United States. I am sure the UK will be able to negotiate with countries outside of the EU whether we are in or out.

In reply to icnoble:


Yes, but don't worry, the UK can afford to pay for it.

In reply to GarethSL:


Under the rules of "what happens if a country leaves" the current arrangements run for 2 years before anything changes.


It ought to be and indeed may well be doing so behind the scenes but it probably isn't wise to let on until after the referendum for a variety reasons.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:



Spot on.

In reply to GrahamD:

Insert rude word here.

In reply to Big Ger:

Does the uk really make any payments to unemployed Greek citizens, living in Greece?

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

You're right, but it's a shame it's not working very well. I don't mind that the UK pays into the EU pot and it gets distributed to the less well off regions of the EU - thats what we do in the UK with our taxation - London and the South East provides the money and it gets shared around the less prosperous areas of the country. No problem with that, my problem with the EU is that it "feels" profoundly undemocratic, most people don't vote for their MEP and most don't know who it is.

I'm undecided which way to vote and no one seems to be making good arguments either way at the moment.

In reply to icnoble:

Who said everything has been good for the European Union? I think you are confusing the economic situation with the political situation. Lots of things that the European Union has done have been good. Why should we leave because of a monetary situation that we don't have anything to do with?


I don't follow what you are saying here. Because at the moment there is a problem with the Euro that means the EU as a whole is bad?

In reply to cander:


This is a shame isn't it. I guess if we thought that the EU was relevant then we would send better people than the majority of UKIP clowns to represent us. Perhaps this is the fault of our own government not showing us the connection between what happens on the ground and our MEPs. Perhaps also our own government has not tried hard enough to drive the system towards being democratic. I do wish that our politicians would stand up and try to make the EU better rather than b1itch and moan about it but not get involved.


I think its regrettable that the majority of the discussion is on how much it does or doesn't cost. We can definitely afford it regardless of whether we vote in or out. The question is which option is better, and that probably isn't a financial question at all.

In reply to petellis: "I think its regrettable that the majority of the discussion is on how much it does or doesn't cost. "

lets face it, that's all anyone cares about...money. How much to fund a decent NHS, how much spent on remain leaflets, how much money hidden off shore, how much money to save our steel industry, minimum wage, state pensions, deficits, welfare payments,footballers salaries, doctors pay, foreign aid....money, money money. If we leave it will be bad for trade (money!) the banks will leave London (money again), the IMF says global depression risk (lots of money again....aarrrgghh) WE WILL ALL BE POORER!! (you get my drift)

Or ..France and Germany now get on! What a success! (Don't think that factors too highly apart from with the historians on polling day) Money on the other hand...

In reply to Jim C:

I am a very vociferous supporter of the IN campaign. This is simply because my business would be directly affected by coming out as we mainly export outside the EU. People just do not understand how simple it is for me to trade with places like Mexico through NAFTA and recipricol trade agreements with the EU. Those agreements took years to get in place and UK Gov on its own does not have the civil service capability to restart everything.

So yes its a serious topic for my business, my employees and my overseas customers.