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Should these be preserved or at least given Listed Building status?
My part of the world is rich in them although some are being demolished and removed. They represent an important part of our history, and although never used in anger they were an amazing feat of defence engineering being constructed over a period of just a few weeks and mainly in secrecy.
My part of the world is rich in them although some are being demolished and removed. They represent an important part of our history, and although never used in anger they were an amazing feat of defence engineering being constructed over a period of just a few weeks and mainly in secrecy.
4
In reply to Trangia:
On Pen Y Fan last weekend just noticed a couple more that I had forgotten were there.
What I want to know is: who in the MoD thought that the Germans were going to want to invade Brecon?
On Pen Y Fan last weekend just noticed a couple more that I had forgotten were there.
What I want to know is: who in the MoD thought that the Germans were going to want to invade Brecon?
6
In reply to Trangia:
I came across some on the river Thames near Goring on part of the Ridgeway Walk. Chilling to imagine that bucolic landscape echoing to the chatter of machine guns and the grind of tank treads. I think some at least of them should stay as reminders of what almost was, but how do you pick?
I came across some on the river Thames near Goring on part of the Ridgeway Walk. Chilling to imagine that bucolic landscape echoing to the chatter of machine guns and the grind of tank treads. I think some at least of them should stay as reminders of what almost was, but how do you pick?
7
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
I think there was a little more thought in the planning. Fortifying an upland area is one of the older military tactics.
Though this is an interesting summary, i would imagine it was more along the lines of coal and preventing invasion from the west:
Wales
A number of stop lines were built in Wales. Nine formed part of the main Western Command stop line system, as developed in the summer of 1940. Three crossed the Welsh/English border and eleven used major rivers as their backbone. They were intended to protect the North Welsh approaches to Liverpool and the Northwest, and to add depth to the defences covering Birmingham and the industrial Midlands. A further objective was to protect the South Wales coal fields and industrial belt. The threat was from the Republic of Ireland (or Eire as it was then known). The possibility of the Germans using Eire as a stepping stone to Britain greatly worried the British.
Beaches in Wales, although not of the top priority, were defended with concrete obstacles, anti-aircraft poles and wire obstacles. From the records, a total of 27 beaches were supplied with such defences. Nodal points in Wales appear to have been limited, with a total of 30 identified from the general references in the sources used. Geographically they are limited to Flintshire, Denbighshire, Wrexham, Conwy, Ceredigion and Pembrokeshire.
I think there was a little more thought in the planning. Fortifying an upland area is one of the older military tactics.
Though this is an interesting summary, i would imagine it was more along the lines of coal and preventing invasion from the west:
Wales
A number of stop lines were built in Wales. Nine formed part of the main Western Command stop line system, as developed in the summer of 1940. Three crossed the Welsh/English border and eleven used major rivers as their backbone. They were intended to protect the North Welsh approaches to Liverpool and the Northwest, and to add depth to the defences covering Birmingham and the industrial Midlands. A further objective was to protect the South Wales coal fields and industrial belt. The threat was from the Republic of Ireland (or Eire as it was then known). The possibility of the Germans using Eire as a stepping stone to Britain greatly worried the British.
Beaches in Wales, although not of the top priority, were defended with concrete obstacles, anti-aircraft poles and wire obstacles. From the records, a total of 27 beaches were supplied with such defences. Nodal points in Wales appear to have been limited, with a total of 30 identified from the general references in the sources used. Geographically they are limited to Flintshire, Denbighshire, Wrexham, Conwy, Ceredigion and Pembrokeshire.
Post edited at 13:17
3
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
Not knowing the topography I can't really say, but they were constructed wherever they could either form a "Stop Line" - as in Kent and Sussex, or to deny, or at least slow down, the use of mountain passes and river crossings in any advance inland. The South Wales ports and beaches could have been potential landing grounds,
There are pill boxes at Pen y Gwryd to counter routes inland from Port Madogh, Aglesea and the N Wales coast
> On Pen Y Fan last weekend just noticed a couple more that I had forgotten were there.
> What I want to know is: who in the MoD thought that the Germans were going to want to invade Brecon?
Not knowing the topography I can't really say, but they were constructed wherever they could either form a "Stop Line" - as in Kent and Sussex, or to deny, or at least slow down, the use of mountain passes and river crossings in any advance inland. The South Wales ports and beaches could have been potential landing grounds,
There are pill boxes at Pen y Gwryd to counter routes inland from Port Madogh, Aglesea and the N Wales coast
1
In reply to GarethSL:
Sorry it was intended as a very mild joke. I have huge respect for the planning and effort that went on in WW II, amongst other things it demonstrates that it's not only the private sector that can really deliver.
Another curiosity just above Cardiff is a well preserved bunker that was intended as a bolt hole for the resistance in the event of an invasion. The volunteers weren't expected to survive, it was intended just to give them some breathing space to damage the enemy until their inevitable demise. Who would plan that now?
Sorry it was intended as a very mild joke. I have huge respect for the planning and effort that went on in WW II, amongst other things it demonstrates that it's not only the private sector that can really deliver.
Another curiosity just above Cardiff is a well preserved bunker that was intended as a bolt hole for the resistance in the event of an invasion. The volunteers weren't expected to survive, it was intended just to give them some breathing space to damage the enemy until their inevitable demise. Who would plan that now?
1
In reply to Bobling:
>Chilling to imagine that bucolic landscape echoing to the chatter of machine guns and the grind of tank treads.
>
WW1 technology and military thinking.
The Home Guard defenders manning them would have been suicide squads. Whilst they might have temporarily held up German advances they were death traps horribly vulnerable to artillery and Stuka dive bombers.
As you say, a chilling concept, which is why our keeping air superiority and destroying the Luftwaffe was so vital.
>Chilling to imagine that bucolic landscape echoing to the chatter of machine guns and the grind of tank treads.
>
WW1 technology and military thinking.
The Home Guard defenders manning them would have been suicide squads. Whilst they might have temporarily held up German advances they were death traps horribly vulnerable to artillery and Stuka dive bombers.
As you say, a chilling concept, which is why our keeping air superiority and destroying the Luftwaffe was so vital.
Post edited at 13:31
1
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
Auxilary unit post? Information is sketchy on them, for obvious reasons, but apparently several hundred were built in various places. Most destroyed after the war or simply emptied of the nasty shit and then left to vanish.
Still some flame fougasse remains around as well.
> Another curiosity just above Cardiff is a well preserved bunker that was intended as a bolt hole for the resistance in the event of an invasion.
Auxilary unit post? Information is sketchy on them, for obvious reasons, but apparently several hundred were built in various places. Most destroyed after the war or simply emptied of the nasty shit and then left to vanish.
Still some flame fougasse remains around as well.
Post edited at 13:37
In reply to Trangia:
I have a lot of this sort of stuff near me it really is fascinating.
One of the local pubs (The Mill) has a pill box next to it to protect a bridge, and all through the village the locals have cut small gun placements in their walls like arrow slits - gives an idea that it was widely supported thing. They weren't doing this to save themselves more take as many Germans with them as they could
I have a lot of this sort of stuff near me it really is fascinating.
One of the local pubs (The Mill) has a pill box next to it to protect a bridge, and all through the village the locals have cut small gun placements in their walls like arrow slits - gives an idea that it was widely supported thing. They weren't doing this to save themselves more take as many Germans with them as they could
2
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:
We had those here in Sussex. My Ex's father, now aged 95 was in one of these "Auxilliary Units". Because he took the Official Secrets Act so seriously he has only just started talking about it. He was about to join the Home Guard, but as a farm labourer with intimate knowledge of the rural area he was recruited into an Auxilliary Unit.
He was sent away to a Commando Training School where he learnt to handle small arms, explosives and demolition charges. The were taught all aspects of demolition and how to kill sentries silently. When he returned to the farm he had to keep it totally secret, including the location of their underground bunker. He was told to carry on with his farm work and not permitted to join the Home Guard.He and fellow member of the Auxilliary Units came into a lot of "stick" from family, friends and Home Guard members for not joining, and he said it was awful being accused of being cowards for not joining, but they were sworn to secrecy. They were all volunteers.
Had the Germans invaded, their role was to go underground in their bunker and let the Germans advance past them. They were then to emerge and play havoc on the German lines of communication. Their anticipated life span was just a few days, and it was inevitable that they would either be killed or captured. If captured they were warned that the Germans would execute them as saboteurs.
Brave men who fortunately never had to put their bravery to the test.
>
> Another curiosity just above Cardiff is a well preserved bunker that was intended as a bolt hole for the resistance in the event of an invasion. The volunteers weren't expected to survive, it was intended just to give them some breathing space to damage the enemy until their inevitable demise. Who would plan that now?
We had those here in Sussex. My Ex's father, now aged 95 was in one of these "Auxilliary Units". Because he took the Official Secrets Act so seriously he has only just started talking about it. He was about to join the Home Guard, but as a farm labourer with intimate knowledge of the rural area he was recruited into an Auxilliary Unit.
He was sent away to a Commando Training School where he learnt to handle small arms, explosives and demolition charges. The were taught all aspects of demolition and how to kill sentries silently. When he returned to the farm he had to keep it totally secret, including the location of their underground bunker. He was told to carry on with his farm work and not permitted to join the Home Guard.He and fellow member of the Auxilliary Units came into a lot of "stick" from family, friends and Home Guard members for not joining, and he said it was awful being accused of being cowards for not joining, but they were sworn to secrecy. They were all volunteers.
Had the Germans invaded, their role was to go underground in their bunker and let the Germans advance past them. They were then to emerge and play havoc on the German lines of communication. Their anticipated life span was just a few days, and it was inevitable that they would either be killed or captured. If captured they were warned that the Germans would execute them as saboteurs.
Brave men who fortunately never had to put their bravery to the test.
16
In reply to Trangia:
Coincidentally there is an obituary in today's Times for Trevor Miners who became an Auxiliary at 16 years old, directed to them on his 16th birthday.
Coincidentally there is an obituary in today's Times for Trevor Miners who became an Auxiliary at 16 years old, directed to them on his 16th birthday.
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In reply to Bobling:
There's a walk I do around Pangbourne, and it's stuffed full of pill boxes. It was a major stop line (GHQ Line Red). They're pretty well preserved, barring the usual graffiti...
http://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/catalogue//adsdata/arch-455-1/dissemina...
"Recommendations: That the surviving anti-invasion defence works in the Sulham Valley defence area be considered of national importance."
If you look at a map, you can see exactly why it was chosen; nice flat plains for tank access. The M4 runs through some of it, and the pill boxes run alongside...
There's a walk I do around Pangbourne, and it's stuffed full of pill boxes. It was a major stop line (GHQ Line Red). They're pretty well preserved, barring the usual graffiti...
http://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/catalogue//adsdata/arch-455-1/dissemina...
"Recommendations: That the surviving anti-invasion defence works in the Sulham Valley defence area be considered of national importance."
If you look at a map, you can see exactly why it was chosen; nice flat plains for tank access. The M4 runs through some of it, and the pill boxes run alongside...
1
In reply to Trangia:
They should definitely be preserved.
Theres a lot of fairly trite 40's keep calm and carry on, white cliffs of dover, spitfires and winston nostalgia kitsch that needs binning. But these ugly blocks remind us that once, we looked evil square in the eye and said 'not on my watch, we WILL fight you.' And I don't think that's a bad thing.
I find it inconceivable that my own father used to watch V1 flying bombs chugging overhead wondering if he had 30 seconds left to live. He was 6.
They should definitely be preserved.
Theres a lot of fairly trite 40's keep calm and carry on, white cliffs of dover, spitfires and winston nostalgia kitsch that needs binning. But these ugly blocks remind us that once, we looked evil square in the eye and said 'not on my watch, we WILL fight you.' And I don't think that's a bad thing.
I find it inconceivable that my own father used to watch V1 flying bombs chugging overhead wondering if he had 30 seconds left to live. He was 6.
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In reply to DerwentDiluted:
Hmm, hard to imagine "You can always take one with you" (a slogan apparently considered by Churchill for use by the Home Guard Reserve, our equivalent of the Volkssturm) achieving the same success that "Keep Calm and Carry On" has - short of an Alien Invasion a la Independence Day!
Hmm, hard to imagine "You can always take one with you" (a slogan apparently considered by Churchill for use by the Home Guard Reserve, our equivalent of the Volkssturm) achieving the same success that "Keep Calm and Carry On" has - short of an Alien Invasion a la Independence Day!
In reply to Trangia:
The story of the Auxiliary Units should be more widely known. The stories of German bombers jettisoning bomb loads over moorland for various reasons tend to have been these units practicing with demolition charges. One unit in Northumberland trained by sneaking into RAF stations at night, which would have been decidedly unpleasant if they were spotted. Apparently they also had assassination lists of suspected Nazi sympathisers.
It would have been a much wider operation as well. Doctors, midwives, postmen etc were trained in recognition of German equipment and a system of dead letter boxes would have been used to pass information. Fascinating stuff.
> Had the Germans invaded, their role was to go underground in their bunker and let the Germans advance past them. They were then to emerge and play havoc on the German lines of communication. Their anticipated life span was just a few days, and it was inevitable that they would either be killed or captured. If captured they were warned that the Germans would execute them as saboteurs.
> Brave men who fortunately never had to put their bravery to the test.
The story of the Auxiliary Units should be more widely known. The stories of German bombers jettisoning bomb loads over moorland for various reasons tend to have been these units practicing with demolition charges. One unit in Northumberland trained by sneaking into RAF stations at night, which would have been decidedly unpleasant if they were spotted. Apparently they also had assassination lists of suspected Nazi sympathisers.
It would have been a much wider operation as well. Doctors, midwives, postmen etc were trained in recognition of German equipment and a system of dead letter boxes would have been used to pass information. Fascinating stuff.
2
In reply to Trangia:
This talk of the Auxiliaries is fascinating, any good book recommendations? The pillboxes show just how desperate things were and how real the threat was, alongside the expectation that it would come to a protracted guerilla war on British soil. Coming just a few years after the horrors of WW1 nobody can have been under any illusion about what was at stake and what it would have taken.
As I alluded to above there's no shortage of WW2 in the collective consciousness but I think a lot of it is now kitsch and rose tinted by the knowledge that victory finally came, to put yourself back in 1940 without that knowledge... without knowing that both the US and Russia would pitch in on your side... it makes me shudder.
This talk of the Auxiliaries is fascinating, any good book recommendations? The pillboxes show just how desperate things were and how real the threat was, alongside the expectation that it would come to a protracted guerilla war on British soil. Coming just a few years after the horrors of WW1 nobody can have been under any illusion about what was at stake and what it would have taken.
As I alluded to above there's no shortage of WW2 in the collective consciousness but I think a lot of it is now kitsch and rose tinted by the knowledge that victory finally came, to put yourself back in 1940 without that knowledge... without knowing that both the US and Russia would pitch in on your side... it makes me shudder.
3
In reply to Ridge:
Problem there is it was deliberately suppressed to a degree even Bletchley couldnt come close to.
Thought most of the bombing moorland was due to the decoys, navigation issues when done manually and then jamming of the various guidance systems.
> The story of the Auxiliary Units should be more widely known.
Problem there is it was deliberately suppressed to a degree even Bletchley couldnt come close to.
> The stories of German bombers jettisoning bomb loads over moorland for various reasons tend to have been these units practicing with demolition charges.
Thought most of the bombing moorland was due to the decoys, navigation issues when done manually and then jamming of the various guidance systems.
1
In reply to Trangia:
Also worth mentioning, are the ROC Monitoring Posts from the Cold War era: -
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-20070903
There's one near me. It's near a Public Footpath, readily accessible and you can even go down inside it where there are still things like bed frames, chemical toilets and benches, etc.
Also worth mentioning, are the ROC Monitoring Posts from the Cold War era: -
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-20070903
There's one near me. It's near a Public Footpath, readily accessible and you can even go down inside it where there are still things like bed frames, chemical toilets and benches, etc.
In reply to DerwentDiluted:
I'm not certain. I was approached by an historian who wanted to interview my father in law, but he refused. He is a proud old man who has kept this secret for decades - they took their promise of secrecy very seriously in those days, he didn't even tell his wife or his daughter, my ex - and apart from telling me some of his exploits the last thing he wants to do is to talk to a stranger. Most are now dead and the few that survive may be like him and want to be left alone, so I'm not sure if much has been written about the Auxiliary Units.
> This talk of the Auxiliaries is fascinating, any good book recommendations?
I'm not certain. I was approached by an historian who wanted to interview my father in law, but he refused. He is a proud old man who has kept this secret for decades - they took their promise of secrecy very seriously in those days, he didn't even tell his wife or his daughter, my ex - and apart from telling me some of his exploits the last thing he wants to do is to talk to a stranger. Most are now dead and the few that survive may be like him and want to be left alone, so I'm not sure if much has been written about the Auxiliary Units.
2
In reply to Yanis Nayu:
I'm not certain but I think he fought in Spain with the International Brigades?
> Wasn't the much-derided Michael Foot one of those?
I'm not certain but I think he fought in Spain with the International Brigades?
In reply to Trangia:
There's been at least one book written, I read it in the 90's. I think it mainly concentrates on Northumberland, where Anthony Quayle, (the German Spy in "Ice Cold in Alex"), was an Intelligence Officer.
There's been at least one book written, I read it in the 90's. I think it mainly concentrates on Northumberland, where Anthony Quayle, (the German Spy in "Ice Cold in Alex"), was an Intelligence Officer.
In reply to Trangia:
It's fascinating to speculate on what would have happened if Germany had succeeded in crossing the channel and establishing a bridgehead in England. The best scenario I've read is that by then, German forces would be so spread out that they'd be unable to sustain the advance and if Britain capitulated, some kind of government of occupation would be negotiated while local resistance fighters harrassed the Germans as in other European countries.
It's fascinating to speculate on what would have happened if Germany had succeeded in crossing the channel and establishing a bridgehead in England. The best scenario I've read is that by then, German forces would be so spread out that they'd be unable to sustain the advance and if Britain capitulated, some kind of government of occupation would be negotiated while local resistance fighters harrassed the Germans as in other European countries.
In reply to Ridge:
Intriguingly Anthony Quayle was involved in an SOE ( or similar) operation in Albania, a photograph exists of him on the operation and it bears a very uncanny resemblence to his role in Guns of the Navarone. Art really did imitate life.
Intriguingly Anthony Quayle was involved in an SOE ( or similar) operation in Albania, a photograph exists of him on the operation and it bears a very uncanny resemblence to his role in Guns of the Navarone. Art really did imitate life.
Post edited at 07:30
1
In reply to Rigid Raider:
I think the general consensus resulting from the Allies experiences of the Normandy Invasion was that Hitler didn't have sufficient shipping resources to sustain the massive re-supply and follow up build up required to keep the momentum of an invasion going.
Due to sea distances involved, the South coast really the only really plausible target for the invasion.
He and his planners greatly underestimated the problems of tides and weather in the Channel, and treated it more like a river crossing rather than a serious seaborne operation. Even if Fighter Command's 11 Group had been totally destroyed, that still left the other largely undamaged Fighter Groups in the West and North which were out of range of the French airfield based Luftwaffe fighter Squadrons, together with most of Bomber Command which would have harassed the landings and shipping, together with the largely untouched Royal Navy to attack cross Channel re-supply.
It is believed that the invasion would have run out of steam by the time it reached the North Downs and the Thames, major natural barriers to the route North.
But having said that fighting in the South and South East would have been very costly and bloody to both sides. The fight for London would have been like Stalingrad.
I think the general consensus resulting from the Allies experiences of the Normandy Invasion was that Hitler didn't have sufficient shipping resources to sustain the massive re-supply and follow up build up required to keep the momentum of an invasion going.
Due to sea distances involved, the South coast really the only really plausible target for the invasion.
He and his planners greatly underestimated the problems of tides and weather in the Channel, and treated it more like a river crossing rather than a serious seaborne operation. Even if Fighter Command's 11 Group had been totally destroyed, that still left the other largely undamaged Fighter Groups in the West and North which were out of range of the French airfield based Luftwaffe fighter Squadrons, together with most of Bomber Command which would have harassed the landings and shipping, together with the largely untouched Royal Navy to attack cross Channel re-supply.
It is believed that the invasion would have run out of steam by the time it reached the North Downs and the Thames, major natural barriers to the route North.
But having said that fighting in the South and South East would have been very costly and bloody to both sides. The fight for London would have been like Stalingrad.
1
In reply to Trangia:
I tend to agree about the German inability to mount a sustainable cross channel invasion, but the post Dunkirk lack of heavy weaponry and arms would have made an effective conventional military resistance all the more difficult, and so I can see why there was much thinking and planning around unorthodox partisan and sabotage methods of resistance.
I tend to agree about the German inability to mount a sustainable cross channel invasion, but the post Dunkirk lack of heavy weaponry and arms would have made an effective conventional military resistance all the more difficult, and so I can see why there was much thinking and planning around unorthodox partisan and sabotage methods of resistance.
In reply to DerwentDiluted:
Good book about the Auxiliary Units, I've got it out from the local library at the moment
Churchill's Underground Army
A History of the Auxiliary Units in World War II
by John Warwicker
Good book about the Auxiliary Units, I've got it out from the local library at the moment
Churchill's Underground Army
A History of the Auxiliary Units in World War II
by John Warwicker
3
In reply to toddles:
Many thanks for the recommendation.
> Good book about the Auxiliary Units, I've got it out from the local library at the moment
> Churchill's Underground Army
> A History of the Auxiliary Units in World War II
> by John Warwicker
Many thanks for the recommendation.
In reply to Trangia:
We were certainly dug in well and relics other than pill boxes survive in the South Downs too.
youtube.com/watch?v=sKU4S6fQU3E&
> It is believed that the invasion would have run out of steam by the time it reached the North Downs and the Thames, major natural barriers to the route North.
We were certainly dug in well and relics other than pill boxes survive in the South Downs too.
youtube.com/watch?v=sKU4S6fQU3E&
In reply to Rigid Raider:
Before my dad was posted to fight in north Africa and then Sicily/ Italy he was a member of a Coldstream Guard unit called "Coats' Mission" which was a single company of guards assigned as personal protection for the royal family (and sometimes senior politicians). Their orders included a standing order that, in the event of an invasion, they were to "evacuate the royal family, WILLING OR NOT, from London to the west country", and from there eventually to Canada. Most of them heartily disliked Princess Margaret (who had a habit of deliberately walking past their guard posts many times in succession, forcing them to "present arms" each time) and used to cut cards for the "privilege" of being on the team assigned to escort her "unwillingly" should the occasion arise!
> It's fascinating to speculate on what would have happened if Germany had succeeded in crossing the channel and establishing a bridgehead in England. The best scenario I've read is that by then, German forces would be so spread out that they'd be unable to sustain the advance and if Britain capitulated, some kind of government of occupation would be negotiated while local resistance fighters harrassed the Germans as in other European countries.
Before my dad was posted to fight in north Africa and then Sicily/ Italy he was a member of a Coldstream Guard unit called "Coats' Mission" which was a single company of guards assigned as personal protection for the royal family (and sometimes senior politicians). Their orders included a standing order that, in the event of an invasion, they were to "evacuate the royal family, WILLING OR NOT, from London to the west country", and from there eventually to Canada. Most of them heartily disliked Princess Margaret (who had a habit of deliberately walking past their guard posts many times in succession, forcing them to "present arms" each time) and used to cut cards for the "privilege" of being on the team assigned to escort her "unwillingly" should the occasion arise!
2
In reply to FactorXXX:
I used to be a member of the ROC. It's amazing where some of those posts were located.
They were damp places, and got a bit claustrophobic during occasional weekend exercises. Sanitation was basic to say the least. They were not the sorts of places anyone would want to have to spend extended periods in.
Some of the regional control centres were pretty impressive places - with fairly antiquated technology. I learned to write backwards on a perspex map, so that people on the other side could read the data.
I used to be a member of the ROC. It's amazing where some of those posts were located.
They were damp places, and got a bit claustrophobic during occasional weekend exercises. Sanitation was basic to say the least. They were not the sorts of places anyone would want to have to spend extended periods in.
Some of the regional control centres were pretty impressive places - with fairly antiquated technology. I learned to write backwards on a perspex map, so that people on the other side could read the data.
3
In reply to Trangia:
I think you'll find that's why he was recruited into the "Auxiliaries" - he'd already proved himself.
> I'm not certain but I think he fought in Spain with the International Brigades
I think you'll find that's why he was recruited into the "Auxiliaries" - he'd already proved himself.
In reply to Rob Naylor:
>"evacuate the royal family, WILLING OR NOT, [..]",
Sounds messy and not at all practical unless they can be spirited away with greater speed and hidden more easily after having been purged.
>"evacuate the royal family, WILLING OR NOT, [..]",
Sounds messy and not at all practical unless they can be spirited away with greater speed and hidden more easily after having been purged.
2
3
In reply to toddles:
A quick search of the internet can unearth some interesting info.: http://www.coleshillhouse.com/
A quick search of the internet can unearth some interesting info.: http://www.coleshillhouse.com/
In reply to Lord of Starkness:
I used to be a member of the ROC. It's amazing where some of those posts were located.
They were damp places, and got a bit claustrophobic during occasional weekend exercises. Sanitation was basic to say the least. They were not the sorts of places anyone would want to have to spend extended periods in.
The one I've been to is about 100M from a road and to the casual observer, would look like a water board installation. I was totally amazed as to what it actually was!
I can well imagine that they would be unpleasant places to work/live in and as for sanitation, the one I went to still had the 'Eltex Chemical Toilet' in all it's green splendour!
Thinking about it just brings about the harsh reality of what was going on during the Cold War and how seriously the Government took the threat of nuclear war. Scary stuff and glad that you only had to endure the posts on weekend exercises!
I used to be a member of the ROC. It's amazing where some of those posts were located.
They were damp places, and got a bit claustrophobic during occasional weekend exercises. Sanitation was basic to say the least. They were not the sorts of places anyone would want to have to spend extended periods in.
The one I've been to is about 100M from a road and to the casual observer, would look like a water board installation. I was totally amazed as to what it actually was!
I can well imagine that they would be unpleasant places to work/live in and as for sanitation, the one I went to still had the 'Eltex Chemical Toilet' in all it's green splendour!
Thinking about it just brings about the harsh reality of what was going on during the Cold War and how seriously the Government took the threat of nuclear war. Scary stuff and glad that you only had to endure the posts on weekend exercises!
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