UKC

I went to pick up a hire car on the Swiss side of Geneva airport today planning to drive through the Mont Blanc tunnel and was told that they wouldn't let me drive the car outside Switzerland. Has anyone else come across this?

The explanation I was given was that a new regulation had just come in meaning I could be charged 20% of the value of the car if as a non-Swiss citizen I took a Swiss car across the border. I couldn't find anything about this on the internet, just a news story from a couple of years ago about someone from Germany who was charged when driving a relative's Swiss car to Austria.

I ended up having to cancel my booking and make a new one on the French side.

In reply to Rich K:
Very odd. Certainly I had no issues last summer where I hired in Basel and went briefly into France & Germany.

I will be watching the thread with interest as I'm due to hire from the Swiss side again this summer. Did you declare you planned to take the car out of Switzerland when you booked? or just when you attempted to collect it?

I'm asking as I was asked this year when I booked if I intended to visit countries outside Switzerland - I don't recall being asked this last year. My booking got held whilst this was checked by the hire company.

In reply to Fiona Reid:

I wasn't asked where I planned to go when I booked it but was asked when I went to pick up the car.

In reply to Rich K:

No problem last month with Europcar. Which company were you with?

In reply to MG:

It was with Avis.

In reply to Rich K:

I am a follower of this as well. I normally hire in GVA and go to Italy.

In reply to Rich K:

This would indeed appear to be the case.

I understand that the problem stems from the fact that Switzerland is not in the EU and this issue results from EU anti-vehicle smuggling regulations, not Swiss ones. I believe that there's an existing agreement between Switzerland and the EU Commission which allows EU residents to rent a car in Switzerland and drive to EU countries for up to 8 days. The 8 days are counted from the border crossing date. Apparently, Swiss car rental companies can face serious problems if an EU resident/customer flaunts or ignores the restrictions - and they can be forced to pay very high fines and EU Customs might even impound the car. I think the regulations have been in place for a while but quite possibly they haven't been diligently enforced by all EU countries up to now. However, it seems that Austria in particular has been enforcing the regulations for some time as a number of EU residents caught driving in Austria with rental cars registered in Switzerland have been charged customs duty, taxes and have also been fined.

I somehow doubt there will be systematic checks using ANPR cameras at a border crossing, but in any sort of police check - for a traffic violation, speeding etc - verification of the 8 day limit is easy and the consequences may well be expensive. Typically it doesn't work the other way round as a resident of any EU country can rent a car in France or indeed anywhere in the EU and drive it in Switzerland without customs problems.

It would seem that the undoubted convenience of hiring a car on the Swiss side in Geneva and driving it into France/ Italy etc is now sadly a thing of the past.

In reply to Rich K:

Can't you hire a French car from the French side of Geneva airport. I seem to remember that on a trip the Alpes I hired a Swiss car and my sister hired a French car. At the time it turned out that I got the better deal as there was an extra charge for using Swiss motorways with her car. But for you a French car would be better

I just googled it. Looks like it is possible

In reply to Dave Williams:

Thanks for the explanation. The rental period was less than 8 days and they weren't allowing me to drive outside of Switzerland at all.

In reply to John Clinch (Ampthill):

You can hire a car on the French side (I had to cancel the booking I'd made for a car on the Swiss side and make a new one at one of the car hire desks on the French side.). Car hire is often cheaper on the French side but in this case it worked out cheaper on the Swiss side as it would come with the vignette for the Swiss motorways.

In reply to Rich K:

Yes, I can see their point as it's probably easier just to say 'no' to taking it out of the country rather than taking the risk that renters might put them at great financial risk by going over the 8 day limit.

Trouble is that it's just so less convenient to drive to and from the French side in comparison to the Swiss side.

In reply to Dave Williams:

Do you know if the 8 day limit resets if you go back into Switzerland? We will be v. close to the border so popping over to Switzerland a couple of times such that the car is never outside Switzerland for more than 8 days would be easy for us.

A link to the regulations would be good if anyone has it...? Thinking it might be worth being armed with that before attempting to cancel/change my current reservation. Funny I thought it was awfy cheap to book from Geneva this time...

In reply to Fiona Reid:

Avis still takes one way bookings from GVA to Paris currently!

In reply to MG:

And recommends places to visit in France when hiring from Geneva...

In reply to Fiona Reid:

Here you go, but I'm afraid it's in German: https://www.bmf.gv.at/zoll/reise/einreise-aus-nicht-eu/mit-dem-auto.html The relevant bits are 'Verwendung von Mietwagen' which mentions the 8 days and also 'Schweizer Mietwagen, about 1/3rds of the way down.

My interpretation of the regs, FWIW, is that the 8 days doesn't technically reset by border flitting but it may be worth risking as you could well get away with it.

This may be of interest too: http://lenews.ch/2014/06/19/drivers-beware-hefty-fine/ Note the date.
Clearly these regs have been in force for some time and for a great many (me included) who have rented in Geneva without so much as a mention that the car's being taken out of the country within minutes afterwards, it's probably very much a case of ''there by the grace of god ....''

In reply to Dave Williams:

I have numerous times rented a car on the Switzerland side of GVA (from Avis Rent-a-Car) and driven the car in France for longer than 8 days, without the slightest question or concern from Avis Rent-a-Car or any Switz or France police or export control authorities.
Most recently during March 2016.

In reply to kenr:

I'm just trying to rent a car in Geneva to use in Switzerland and France and the small print of several rental companies says that an EU resident cannot take a Swiss car into an EU country due to new regulations which came into force on 1st May 2016, its OK for non-EU residents though. Another argument for Brexit...

In reply to Rich K:

The missus says I spend too much time surfing UKC. However in this case I suspect she'll be glad. Phoned to check on my booking I made in January and thanks to this info I've done the same as you, cancelled and rebooked on the French side.

Could have proved to be a stressful beginning to the family holiday. But thumbs up to UKC.

In reply to Rich K:

One thing to beware of is that the border crossing between the Swiss and French sides, basically just a locked door, is sometimes closed. I once had to wait nearly 2 hours before I was able to get through to pick up a car on the French side. Following that experience I always booked on the Swiss side but it looks like that will now be problematical.

Al

I have disembarked my airplane on the Switz side of GVA airport and walked over to the France side to rent a car numerous times without finding that door locked.

I'd say if do find it locked, ask some airport official for help (or phone your French-side rental car agency and ask them for help?)

What might be tricky is if you have lots of baggage (previous times I've walked across) the passage from France to Switz side was not wide enough to pass a luggage chariot / cart / trolley. So you could take the luggage through carrying by hand (then find another chariot on the Switz side?)

So when I have much baggage when I am departing, I often arrive early and park my (French registration) rental car first temporarily on the Switz side, then check my baggage at my airline counter on the Switz side, then drive my car around to the French side to return it to the (French) rental car agency.

Ken

P.S. EU citizen? I am not one -- so perhaps that's why I've never needed to worry about taking a Switz rental car into France.

In reply to kenr:


Did all that, it still took almost 2 hours and it wasn't as though this was at some unearthly hour although it was late at night, perhaps 11 pm.

Al

In reply to aostaman:

I've got a booking on 1st July with auto reservations. I think dollar are the company providing the car. I am planning to drive drom Geneva to Aosta for the weekend. I will call them in the morning for clarification.

In reply to Gone for good:

i have a car booked this weekend in GVA and just got this email....so seems like it wont be an issue...

Dear Costumer,

I am contacting you with further information regarding your Avis car hire reservation in Switzerland.

A new EU Directive means that any customer wishing to drive into another country must advise Avis at time of pick up. EU residents can only drive a vehicle with an EU license plate out of Switzerland therefore all customers will be asked to sign a document when collecting the car to advise of their plans. Avis endeavour to provide all EU customers wanting to drive out of the country an EU plate car. If you are given a non-EU plate car and you drive out of the country you could be liable for a charge at the border (10% of the value of the car). This charge is made at the border therefore it is imperative you sign the document at the depot so that Avis can give you the correct vehicle for your plans.

As part of our commitment to customer service, we like to ensure that our customers are made aware of such information prior to travel. This email is for clarification purposes and I trust this will not affect your stay or enjoyment in any way.

In reply to GeoMike:

Perhaps an opportune time for me to make an in-camp political broadcast, extolling the virtues of being part of Europe rather than Switzerland/Norway?

I'm confused . . .
Which side thinks they are getting cheated on duty payments?
Is it the EU or is it Switzerland?

my story:
Here's my confused story from just yesterday Monday ...
as a non-EU resident ...
I rented a car from Avis on the Switzerland side of GVA.
They did not ask me to fill out any form (or even mention that) -- just show my driver's license.
. . . (? but even if my current driver's license is non-EU, how could they be sure
. . . . that I am not an EU citizen in some less obvious way?)

They rented me a car with Switzerland plates.
Gave me no warning about driving it to outside of Switzerland.

I immediately drove it across the border at Bardonnex into France, so me and the car are (happily) in France now.
Neither the Switz or French officers at the Bardonnex crossing stopped me to check anything. I did not notice any warning signs about bringing a car with non-EU plates across the border.

. (I would guess that they had no idea whether I was an EU citizen or not).
. . . (? "they" ? Is it supposed to be the Switz officials or the French officials who are supposed to care about collecting or enforcing the duty ?)
. (I would further guess that they have a pretty good idea which Switzerland-plate cars are likely to be rentals).

Perhaps the intensity of enforcement (and notification) is yet to be ramped up?
So next time my story will be different?

Just my confusions.

Ken

In reply to Rich K:

It's not a question of being a Swiss or EU citizen but rather one of where you reside for tax purposes. I'm an EU citizen but live in Switzerland so am considered "Swiss" by the law.

The problem seems to be that VAT is not covered by the agreements on the avoidance of double taxation and when you cross the EU/Swiss border with a car you are technically importing it. Hence the 20% of the value that the French could try and extract. Technically one would be guilty of smuggling the vehicle.

The law on what the exceptions are (i.e. what is not considered to be an importation) is less than clear for anything other than a vehicle that belongs to you.

The Austrian customs page linked to above says 8 days is permitted for a Swiss vehicle in Austria. I've no idea if this is a general EU rule or if France/Italy/Germany have their own conditions. As a Swiss resident I can use a car rented in the EU inside Switzerland for a maximum of three days in a row with 12 such occurrences per year - when crossing the border I would need to fill in a form stating that it's a hire car and then get it stamped on the way out!

In reply to EwanR:
Thanks for taking the time and effort for that helpful + careful clarification.

Ken

In reply to Rich K:
I travel to Geneva once a year to see my son. He lives just a few km from the French border and I regularly cross into France. The hire company ( Eurocar) have never stated that I cannot do this. I would check with a hire company, UK branch.

In reply to Rich K:

Car hire is generally much cheaper from the French side although the airport return from France with out a Swiss motorway vignette can be an adventure!
Never had any problem crossing from French side to Swiss side. Easy jet let you check in on the French side with much smaller queues.

In reply to johncb:


I checked (Rentalcars) and yes there were restrictions on passing from Switzerland to France. I cancelled thebooking and went elsewhere.

This morning I drove acrossed again from Switz to France at Bardennex in a rental car with Switz plates.

This time a France official stopped me, asked where I was going. I told him Aix-en-Provence. He asked me if I was a resident there. I said No, I was just visiting a few days for climbing and hiking.

He asked me if the car was rented. I said Yes, offered to show him the rental contract.

He took my passport and examined it, which confirmed that I was a non-EU citizen.

Then he waved me through onward.

Ken