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Last November, I bought a little all-in-one PC, secondhand, from a shop, to use as a media player running MediaMonkey. It was advertised as having Windows 7, and a quick glance showed it had a product key sticker on the case.
I did a Windows update pretty soon after buying it, and all was well until last month (four months after buying it). I'd been doing updates regularly, but checking for the sneaky Windows 10 precursor elements, and dumping them, since I don't want Win10.
Then, it started issuing warnings that it wasn't a registered copy of windows, and the 30-day trial period was about to expire (even though I'd been using it for four months).
My suspicion is that the shop simply loaded Windows 7 Enterprise on it, and didn't apply a product key (I now notice the one on the case is for XP, as originally installed). Enterprise seemed sensible at the time, since it was probably a post-corporate low performance (helpdesk) type machine.
Some of the Windows updates muttered about servers, and it may be that, being an Enterprise copy, it's expecting to get a licence from a corporate licence server. So I may have inadvertently installed an update that has knackered the licence.
I've rolled back the updates to a date more than 30 days before the beginning of the likely 30-day window, but that only restores 'normal' operation for a short time, before the desktop goes black, and the 'this is an invalid copy of Windows' message appears in the bottom corner, and the nag screens appear.
I don't want to install linux on it, because I need Windows to run MediaMonkey, but, obviously, I don't want to spend a lot of money on a licence, since the thing only cost me £50. Likewise, I don't want to use a cracked key code; I want it to be legitimate. I'll be having words with the shop, to get their story, bearing a photograph of their window advert declaring Windows 7, but I suspect I won't get any joy without recourse to legal measures.
It's all a bit of a shame, as it is in good condition, and does what I wanted it to do, and I'd only just fitted a wall mount for it in the bedroom when the problem started...
Any observations, similar experiences or advice would be welcome, thanks.
I did a Windows update pretty soon after buying it, and all was well until last month (four months after buying it). I'd been doing updates regularly, but checking for the sneaky Windows 10 precursor elements, and dumping them, since I don't want Win10.
Then, it started issuing warnings that it wasn't a registered copy of windows, and the 30-day trial period was about to expire (even though I'd been using it for four months).
My suspicion is that the shop simply loaded Windows 7 Enterprise on it, and didn't apply a product key (I now notice the one on the case is for XP, as originally installed). Enterprise seemed sensible at the time, since it was probably a post-corporate low performance (helpdesk) type machine.
Some of the Windows updates muttered about servers, and it may be that, being an Enterprise copy, it's expecting to get a licence from a corporate licence server. So I may have inadvertently installed an update that has knackered the licence.
I've rolled back the updates to a date more than 30 days before the beginning of the likely 30-day window, but that only restores 'normal' operation for a short time, before the desktop goes black, and the 'this is an invalid copy of Windows' message appears in the bottom corner, and the nag screens appear.
I don't want to install linux on it, because I need Windows to run MediaMonkey, but, obviously, I don't want to spend a lot of money on a licence, since the thing only cost me £50. Likewise, I don't want to use a cracked key code; I want it to be legitimate. I'll be having words with the shop, to get their story, bearing a photograph of their window advert declaring Windows 7, but I suspect I won't get any joy without recourse to legal measures.
It's all a bit of a shame, as it is in good condition, and does what I wanted it to do, and I'd only just fitted a wall mount for it in the bedroom when the problem started...
Any observations, similar experiences or advice would be welcome, thanks.
1
In reply to captain paranoia:
There's legitimate Windows 7 licenses on Amazon for about £35
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00S1B0FMI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s0...
Should be OK to install if you have an internal DVD or the PC is a few years old, it is a nightmare with the Skylake chipset and USB drives.
There's legitimate Windows 7 licenses on Amazon for about £35
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00S1B0FMI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s0...
Should be OK to install if you have an internal DVD or the PC is a few years old, it is a nightmare with the Skylake chipset and USB drives.
In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:
Thanks, but that £35 is nearly the cost of the machine... It may not be worth it...
I'm hoping someone might point out that I've done something dumb with the updates, or explain how Enterprise licensing might be different. I'd really rather not spend more cash on it...
Thanks, but that £35 is nearly the cost of the machine... It may not be worth it...
I'm hoping someone might point out that I've done something dumb with the updates, or explain how Enterprise licensing might be different. I'd really rather not spend more cash on it...
In reply to captain paranoia:
My guess is you are right. In the shop the system was wiped and reinstalled using Windows 7 Enterprise and a volume licence key. Volume licence key has since been revoked, probably due to it being pirated many many times.
Your only legitimate route is a new Windows 10 (or 7) licence ~£85
There are of course loads of less legitimate options starting at £free
My guess is you are right. In the shop the system was wiped and reinstalled using Windows 7 Enterprise and a volume licence key. Volume licence key has since been revoked, probably due to it being pirated many many times.
Your only legitimate route is a new Windows 10 (or 7) licence ~£85
There are of course loads of less legitimate options starting at £free
In reply to captain paranoia:
As you say, you are probably stuffed getting a legit licence on the machine for much less than what you paid for it.
I know you said you don't want to go down the Linux route, but there are many excellent free media player progams for it. -and you remain legal.
You may be able to find a friend who is upgrading and buy their licence, but I suspect it could be tied to either the initial owner, or original hardware.
As you say, you are probably stuffed getting a legit licence on the machine for much less than what you paid for it.
I know you said you don't want to go down the Linux route, but there are many excellent free media player progams for it. -and you remain legal.
You may be able to find a friend who is upgrading and buy their licence, but I suspect it could be tied to either the initial owner, or original hardware.
In reply to cezza:
Win10? No chance. Fought tooth and nail to stop auto update installing it on the sly. I suspect the Atom 280 processor may struggle, too.
Win10? No chance. Fought tooth and nail to stop auto update installing it on the sly. I suspect the Atom 280 processor may struggle, too.
In reply to captain paranoia:
If you want to keep things legit and you have no option to install Linux then maybe you could get Media Monkey to work on it. Maybe
http://www.mediamonkey.com/wiki/index.php/Linux,_Wine_%26_MediaMonkey
If you want to keep things legit and you have no option to install Linux then maybe you could get Media Monkey to work on it. Maybe
http://www.mediamonkey.com/wiki/index.php/Linux,_Wine_%26_MediaMonkey
In reply to captain paranoia:
I suppose I could always drop back to XP, since I have a legitimate product key for that... Win7 is a bit nicer, though.
I suppose I could always drop back to XP, since I have a legitimate product key for that... Win7 is a bit nicer, though.
In reply to The Lemming:
Hmmm... Now that's a possibility. I'd forgotten that Wine is open source; was thinking of systems that run windows as a task, but these still require a licence key, IIRC.
And, whilst I didn't want Linux on this little PC (because of MM), I would like to have a basic Linux box. So Linux, Wine and MM could be an answer. The only other thing I want on it is Kodi. And decent power management (sleep).
Hmmm... Now that's a possibility. I'd forgotten that Wine is open source; was thinking of systems that run windows as a task, but these still require a licence key, IIRC.
And, whilst I didn't want Linux on this little PC (because of MM), I would like to have a basic Linux box. So Linux, Wine and MM could be an answer. The only other thing I want on it is Kodi. And decent power management (sleep).
In reply to markAut:
Any recommendations? I really like MM, in particular its auto-DJ function. I'd still use my old XP desktop for ripping and library management, so I wouldn't need a fancy library/metadata manager.
> I know you said you don't want to go down the Linux route, but there are many excellent free media player progams for it
Any recommendations? I really like MM, in particular its auto-DJ function. I'd still use my old XP desktop for ripping and library management, so I wouldn't need a fancy library/metadata manager.
In reply to captain paranoia:
From past experience, I enjoyed Amarok. Most distributions have their own selection in the install, but you can install whatever you like. There really is loads of choice, so you may enjoy auditioning a few before you decide.
The only challenge really is getting a distribution of linux which plays nicely with your machine. Some all in ones have unsupported chipsets or have insufficient memory or power. A quick google should point you in the right direction relatively quickly.
Good hunting.
From past experience, I enjoyed Amarok. Most distributions have their own selection in the install, but you can install whatever you like. There really is loads of choice, so you may enjoy auditioning a few before you decide.
The only challenge really is getting a distribution of linux which plays nicely with your machine. Some all in ones have unsupported chipsets or have insufficient memory or power. A quick google should point you in the right direction relatively quickly.
Good hunting.
In reply to captain paranoia:
If I was to go down the Linux route again with an aging computer then Id go for this particular version.
http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/linux-mint-rosa-xfce.html
> Any recommendations? I really like MM, in particular its auto-DJ function. I'd still use my old XP desktop for ripping and library management, so I wouldn't need a fancy library/metadata manager.
If I was to go down the Linux route again with an aging computer then Id go for this particular version.
http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/linux-mint-rosa-xfce.html
In reply to The Lemming:
I'm running mint mate on an aged dell inspiron with reasonable success. Have to agree that Mint is good and has good hardware support.
I'm running mint mate on an aged dell inspiron with reasonable success. Have to agree that Mint is good and has good hardware support.
In reply to captain paranoia:
Volume licensing (one uber licence key for all of a company's PCs) relies on a Key Management Server: if the machines can't talk to the KMS at least once every six months, they get unhappy, and start wingeing about being unlicenced - my lot occasionally have that with laptops that stay off-site for extended periods. There's no simple fix: the licence for Windows 7 stayed with the company, rather than going along with the machine. If you can get an XP CD, you could use the code on the case to licence that and then upgrade to W10, but if you're feeling anxious about W10, that won't help.
That said, I'm using an Atom N450 based netbook with Windows 10 and it's as good with that as it was with W7; I don't think the N280 is much worse than than the 450 (the big difference being on chip GPU), so you may be worrying unduely
> explain how Enterprise licensing might be different.
Volume licensing (one uber licence key for all of a company's PCs) relies on a Key Management Server: if the machines can't talk to the KMS at least once every six months, they get unhappy, and start wingeing about being unlicenced - my lot occasionally have that with laptops that stay off-site for extended periods. There's no simple fix: the licence for Windows 7 stayed with the company, rather than going along with the machine. If you can get an XP CD, you could use the code on the case to licence that and then upgrade to W10, but if you're feeling anxious about W10, that won't help.
That said, I'm using an Atom N450 based netbook with Windows 10 and it's as good with that as it was with W7; I don't think the N280 is much worse than than the 450 (the big difference being on chip GPU), so you may be worrying unduely
Post edited at 22:20
In reply to Niall_H:
Thanks for the explanation of volume licensing; the six months sounds about right, then.
I know loads of people have moved to Win10, and the earlier issues about enforced upgrades seem to have been dropped, but I'm unhappy about the intrusive monitoring, and the free upgrades; you don't get owt for nowt. I sometimes live up to my moniker...
Thanks for the explanation of volume licensing; the six months sounds about right, then.
I know loads of people have moved to Win10, and the earlier issues about enforced upgrades seem to have been dropped, but I'm unhappy about the intrusive monitoring, and the free upgrades; you don't get owt for nowt. I sometimes live up to my moniker...
In reply to Niall_H:
I thought the free win 10 offer only works for 7 and 8?
> If you can get an XP CD, you could use the code on the case to licence that and then upgrade to W10,
I thought the free win 10 offer only works for 7 and 8?
In reply to captain paranoia:
That's correct. Only Windows 7 and 8 can upgrade to Windows 10.
Having said that, I seem to remember that MS said you can upgrade to Windows 10 even if you have a "pirated" copy of Windows..I'll try and dig out a link, because that may be your best bet. To be fair, you can turn off most of the "phone home" functions in W10...
That's correct. Only Windows 7 and 8 can upgrade to Windows 10.
Having said that, I seem to remember that MS said you can upgrade to Windows 10 even if you have a "pirated" copy of Windows..I'll try and dig out a link, because that may be your best bet. To be fair, you can turn off most of the "phone home" functions in W10...
In reply to BigBrother:
You're quite right: my mistake.
> I thought the free win 10 offer only works for 7 and 8?
You're quite right: my mistake.
In reply to captain paranoia:
If KODI is what you want then get XBMC as a linux distro. Lightweight and designed fully as a media manager / player.
If KODI is what you want then get XBMC as a linux distro. Lightweight and designed fully as a media manager / player.
In reply to captain paranoia:
You could just crack it, there's loads of win7 bootloaders out there that'll remove WGA (the windows authenticator) and activate your installation.
RemoveWAT and Daz's Windows Loader are the specific tools you'll want to use.
I'd disable updates before installing and keep them disabled, you don't need windows updates (especially if you're not married to IExplorer/Outlook and don't intend to upgrade to Win10).
You could just crack it, there's loads of win7 bootloaders out there that'll remove WGA (the windows authenticator) and activate your installation.
RemoveWAT and Daz's Windows Loader are the specific tools you'll want to use.
I'd disable updates before installing and keep them disabled, you don't need windows updates (especially if you're not married to IExplorer/Outlook and don't intend to upgrade to Win10).
1
In reply to Removed User:
With the bootloaders that I found, you don't need to disable anything. You just install a clean version of Windows 7 and get all the updates you want within the 30 day grace period.
You then install the bootloader and let it do its thing. from then on Microsoft will acknowledge Windows 7 as legit and let you carry on updating. Some of my mate's computers have been using Windows 7 from a Microsoft DVD and a bootloader for almost 15 years.
I also thought that getting updates kept your computer safe from the nasties of the internet which focuses on outdated security flaws. I could be wrong though
> I'd disable updates before installing and keep them disabled, you don't need windows updates (especially if you're not married to IExplorer/Outlook and don't intend to upgrade to Win10).
With the bootloaders that I found, you don't need to disable anything. You just install a clean version of Windows 7 and get all the updates you want within the 30 day grace period.
You then install the bootloader and let it do its thing. from then on Microsoft will acknowledge Windows 7 as legit and let you carry on updating. Some of my mate's computers have been using Windows 7 from a Microsoft DVD and a bootloader for almost 15 years.
I also thought that getting updates kept your computer safe from the nasties of the internet which focuses on outdated security flaws. I could be wrong though
In reply to Route Adjuster:
I know that Kodi (formerly XBMC) is already multi-platform; I use it on my Android devices, and I'd use it on my XP machine, only it doesn't support it.
MediaMonkey is the main requirement, and Kodi is secondary.
Lots of options coming out of the woodwork, and now I'll struggle to choose...
I know that Kodi (formerly XBMC) is already multi-platform; I use it on my Android devices, and I'd use it on my XP machine, only it doesn't support it.
MediaMonkey is the main requirement, and Kodi is secondary.
Lots of options coming out of the woodwork, and now I'll struggle to choose...
In reply to The Lemming:
It's not a question of being able to download them, correctly cracked versions of windows will bypass the authenticator and therefore can get updates, you don't want to because they don't do much for security (despite what MS would have you believe) and could be used to remove the crack or force updates which could interact badly with the crack. Like WGA.
The benefits of updates (very minor security updates which effect very few people) do not outweigh the risks involved with downloading them.
Not sure how your mates have been using win7 for 15 years.
It's not a question of being able to download them, correctly cracked versions of windows will bypass the authenticator and therefore can get updates, you don't want to because they don't do much for security (despite what MS would have you believe) and could be used to remove the crack or force updates which could interact badly with the crack. Like WGA.
The benefits of updates (very minor security updates which effect very few people) do not outweigh the risks involved with downloading them.
Not sure how your mates have been using win7 for 15 years.
Post edited at 12:50
In reply to Removed User:
I used XBMCbuntu on an old netbook I had - purely as a music machine. It has a good "party mode" for an auto-dj and works well.
There's now Kodibuntu - http://kodi.wiki/view/kodibuntu which I imagine is just as good.
This is basically a super-stripped back Ubuntu install that goes straight into Kodi. Quick to boot, plays your music, photos and videos and loads of extra stuff if you want it to.
I used XBMCbuntu on an old netbook I had - purely as a music machine. It has a good "party mode" for an auto-dj and works well.
There's now Kodibuntu - http://kodi.wiki/view/kodibuntu which I imagine is just as good.
This is basically a super-stripped back Ubuntu install that goes straight into Kodi. Quick to boot, plays your music, photos and videos and loads of extra stuff if you want it to.
In reply to Removed User:
Sorry. Brain fart there. They have been using since 2009ish. That would be 5 years.
Doh
>
> Not sure how your mates have been using win7 for 15 years.
> Not sure how your mates have been using win7 for 15 years.
Sorry. Brain fart there. They have been using since 2009ish. That would be 5 years.
Doh
In reply to Durbs:
Ah, that will have been what Route Adjuster was on about. I see. Maybe I need to play with Kodi's auto-DJ, as that's all I'm really after, if the player side, leaving the manager elsewhere.
I'm coming around to the idea that I don't actually need Windows on this machine, since I don't run any Microsoft software on it. But something is making me resistant, and I can't put my finger on it... Possibly because I've invested a fair bit of time getting the thing running nicely. Until the licence issue...
I may go for that Linux Mint, Wine for MM, and then use a standard Kodi install. Or I may not...
Thanks to all for the suggestions: further suggestions very welcome.
Ah, that will have been what Route Adjuster was on about. I see. Maybe I need to play with Kodi's auto-DJ, as that's all I'm really after, if the player side, leaving the manager elsewhere.
I'm coming around to the idea that I don't actually need Windows on this machine, since I don't run any Microsoft software on it. But something is making me resistant, and I can't put my finger on it... Possibly because I've invested a fair bit of time getting the thing running nicely. Until the licence issue...
I may go for that Linux Mint, Wine for MM, and then use a standard Kodi install. Or I may not...
Thanks to all for the suggestions: further suggestions very welcome.
In reply to captain paranoia:
System image tools downloaded.
Mint xfce and mate ISOs downloaded.
Now to get imaging the existing Win7 (just in case) and installing Mint...
I'll hang fire until I can pop into the shop tomorrow to give the guy a chance to redeem himself...
As if I haven't got enough tech problems with trying to get a GPS tracker to work with traccar.org and installing a traccar server on an RPi...
System image tools downloaded.
Mint xfce and mate ISOs downloaded.
Now to get imaging the existing Win7 (just in case) and installing Mint...
I'll hang fire until I can pop into the shop tomorrow to give the guy a chance to redeem himself...
As if I haven't got enough tech problems with trying to get a GPS tracker to work with traccar.org and installing a traccar server on an RPi...
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