UKC

HelsbyMorgue Slab (E2 5b)

So I haven't led anything in nearly two years, I have a myriad of excuses but I won't bore you with them, I started indoor bouldering 3-4 times a week in feb and feel fitter and technically better than ever before so yesterday evening I set out to Helsby for an evening climb and threw myself straight at an e2 5b (hardest before I'd done was e1 5c) and backed off at the strange reachy sequence coming over the break. I wasn't pumped I just didn't feel confident and wasn't sure of the sequence. So is it just balls or was I being unrealistic in my expectations? any similar experiences?

In reply to Jackspratt:

You haven't led anything in 2 years and then expect to pull a personal best out of the bag, and a trad climb at that? Surely you can answer your own question!

In reply to jsmcfarland:

I understand that the majority view is if you don't lead regularly you wont get better but If I'm fitter now and technique wise definitely no worse it must just be about the nerves surely? I was slick with my gear and a little rusty about route finding but nothing that pumped me out.

In reply to Jackspratt:
I'd say u are more than strong enough to get up it. But if u can't relax enough to commit above gear then u won't get up many routes at that grade. Get on some lower grades with harder but better protected moves. U will gain confidence that it is not the climbing holding u back. It's the head. And don't get disheartened when u back off. The climb is not going anywhere. Failing is failing to try.
Luke.

In reply to luke glaister:

how often do you fall when pushing your grade at what point does it just become dangerous

In reply to Jackspratt:

If it helps I've got to E4, headpoint E5, still pushing, and I still haven't fallen... (having been a nervous wreck on VS while bouldering in the 7s a couple years ago) Sounds like you should go climb 10 trad routes a day every day for a week and you will almost certainly answer every question you had.

In reply to kwoods:

better take some time off work then haha

In reply to Jackspratt:

Pushing the grade in your head is a mile away from pushing the grade u can climb. I am yet to fall wile pushing my head grade. On sighting Currently e2 5c. Last year was hvs e1. But with a load of sport climbing through winter I've got stronger. 6c+ onsight 7a+ in a few trys. So I could be climbing e4 and 5s. But the head is the thing that needs to catch up. Lol. Still yet to fall off so clearly I'm not near the maximum yet...
Luke.

In reply to Jackspratt:

I think framing it as "just balls" or "just nerves" is misleading.

Clearly the issue you ran into was mental rather than physical, but there are a whole lot of mental skills involved in trad leading that you don't get to practice while indoor bouldering.

(Speaking as someone who does a lot of indoor bouldering.)

I know plenty of trad climbers who feel a bit rusty when they've just been leading indoors over the winter.

You don't mention whether you've been seconding or bouldering outdoors while you've not been leading, but if you haven't, then your ability to read the rock is also going to be rusty.

Saying it's "just balls" implies that you just need to "man the **** up" or some such cliche.

Whereas I suspect it'd help more to get more trad leading in, get some mileage in at more comfortable grades, and generally get your "trad head" back on *before* you start gunning for personal bests.

In reply to Jackspratt:

Get comfortable again on a few E1 5b routes before going for the next step up. E2 5b is often bolder (so you don't want to fall off), or pumpier (so less time to mess around trying different sequences and placing gear).

In reply to Jackspratt:


This obviously depends on the route. Some you can push it and risk a fall knowing your gear is bomber, others you would be ill advised to take this approach!

In reply to Jackspratt:

It is mostly in your head (well it is for me) but you don't fix that by simply 'manning up' and throwing yourself in the deep end, you fix it by growing your confidence and experience together; knowing when you're just pushing on a bit and when you're getting out of your depth, losing sight of where you are and starting to take silly risks.
jk

In reply to Jackspratt:

I usually stay within my comfort zone of around VS-HVS when it comes to trad but the other day was surprised to find that I could toprope an E5 6a (so only the 6a bit counts) after a few tries. There is no way I would have then gone on to lead the route as it has no gear.

For me, the reason I am not climbing harder is definitely the mental aspect. I think this a perfectly natural response of 'not wanting to die' which makes sense when a fall would be bad. However, the same mental response often happens when the fall would actually be ok.

In reply to Jackspratt:

Surprised no-ones mentioned it, but the actual climbing moves on rock are sometimes very different to what's found indoors. A f6b indoor leader might find a 4c trad move simply impossible because they've never done anything like that trad move indoors. An obvious example is jamming, but I'm certain there are more subtle moves found on trad routes that also aren't found indoors.
Alternatively a rest opportunity may have been missed (realistically who practices resting indoors by wedging themselves into a cleft or by leaning against things with your head in weird positions?). Smearing/manteling also tend to be neglected indoors.

In reply to SenzuBean:

True, true. And I'd add overall footwork to that, too.

In reply to Jackspratt:

I know lots of strong indoor climbers who are crap outdoors. Could be their head, experience, how they place gear, do they trust gear they placed, footwork, how to get rests, how to relax, confidence, how fast they climb, can they climb way above gear, etc etc. So much is different outside.