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If you started off not knowing what a front lever was, trained and trained till you could do one, what is your likely jump in climbing grade going to be?
Only ask as this app psyched from this thread- http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=640962
Relies on tests you can do as a sort of tracking program.
So if i can achieve 6c lead with 18 dips and 12 pullups. What happens if you doubled those outputs... easily done with a bit of training, considering I only weight 65kg. Or 10 stone flat
Only ask as this app psyched from this thread- http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=640962
Relies on tests you can do as a sort of tracking program.
So if i can achieve 6c lead with 18 dips and 12 pullups. What happens if you doubled those outputs... easily done with a bit of training, considering I only weight 65kg. Or 10 stone flat
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In reply to zimpara:
I'd say close to nil...
But I am training for a front lever, mostly as a way to improve my core more generally. I find it a lot easier to train with a particular achievement in mind than just doing situps etc. I'm not expecting a grade, half grade or anything improvement as a result.
If you want to climb harder...climb
I'd say close to nil...
But I am training for a front lever, mostly as a way to improve my core more generally. I find it a lot easier to train with a particular achievement in mind than just doing situps etc. I'm not expecting a grade, half grade or anything improvement as a result.
If you want to climb harder...climb
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In reply to zimpara:
Its a nonsense question. You have to have a varied set of capabilities to climb at a given grade and the limiting factor is highly unlikely to be front lever capability unless it is a specific type of roof problem.
Pull ups are more useful, dips less so. The outputs that are more likely to significantly improve your grade are isometric finger strength and finger stamina if complemented by commensurate technical capability.
A core exercise that will be more useful to climbing is deadlifting amd that can help with front levers too
Its a nonsense question. You have to have a varied set of capabilities to climb at a given grade and the limiting factor is highly unlikely to be front lever capability unless it is a specific type of roof problem.
Pull ups are more useful, dips less so. The outputs that are more likely to significantly improve your grade are isometric finger strength and finger stamina if complemented by commensurate technical capability.
A core exercise that will be more useful to climbing is deadlifting amd that can help with front levers too
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In reply to zimpara:
Think shark has answered your question.
See John Gill..front levers for fun...one finger pull ups galore...but what has he ever done on grit?..(tongue in cheek..refer to the first line of the reply)
cheers
Think shark has answered your question.
See John Gill..front levers for fun...one finger pull ups galore...but what has he ever done on grit?..(tongue in cheek..refer to the first line of the reply)
cheers
In reply to zimpara:
I think that depends on the person.
I like to think of climbing performance as a set of factors (finger strength, technique, arm strength, core strength, stamina ect) whichever of these is weakest is your 'limiting factor' and determines the grade you can climb.
So as an example a boulderer might have the finger strength of a 7b climber, the technique of a 7c climber but the stamina of a 6c climber. They'll only climb 6c until they can improve their stamina. Once their stamina improves to 7b+ then their finger strength will start limiting them.
If your core strength is holding you back then you'll notice an improvement from training to do a front lever. If your technique is what's holding you back you won't notice much improvement.
Hope that helps.
*I'm not a coach and this is just how I find useful to look at climbing performance. In reality I think it's a (over?) simplified model.
I think that depends on the person.
I like to think of climbing performance as a set of factors (finger strength, technique, arm strength, core strength, stamina ect) whichever of these is weakest is your 'limiting factor' and determines the grade you can climb.
So as an example a boulderer might have the finger strength of a 7b climber, the technique of a 7c climber but the stamina of a 6c climber. They'll only climb 6c until they can improve their stamina. Once their stamina improves to 7b+ then their finger strength will start limiting them.
If your core strength is holding you back then you'll notice an improvement from training to do a front lever. If your technique is what's holding you back you won't notice much improvement.
Hope that helps.
*I'm not a coach and this is just how I find useful to look at climbing performance. In reality I think it's a (over?) simplified model.
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In reply to zimpara:
Well two years ago I used to be able to raise my knees, now I can nearly I said nearly! do a front lever a bit saggy but just about there! that's two years ago.
Difference in climbing grade zero! but a definite gain in specifics for certain moves which now feel a lot easier. Being able to pull my hips in to transfer weight to my feet has improved a lot. Just need to find the right project to use this. Yet alas my fingers are still too weak. And yesterday I managed to screw one of my fingers too the rafters. Oh well one step forward three weeks off!
Well two years ago I used to be able to raise my knees, now I can nearly I said nearly! do a front lever a bit saggy but just about there! that's two years ago.
Difference in climbing grade zero! but a definite gain in specifics for certain moves which now feel a lot easier. Being able to pull my hips in to transfer weight to my feet has improved a lot. Just need to find the right project to use this. Yet alas my fingers are still too weak. And yesterday I managed to screw one of my fingers too the rafters. Oh well one step forward three weeks off!
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In reply to sammy5000:
See... It all keeps coming back to having nail hard fingers! Regardless of what coaches and people with a vested interest might spout.
See... It all keeps coming back to having nail hard fingers! Regardless of what coaches and people with a vested interest might spout.
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In reply to zimpara:
None. Training to complete a front lever will make you better at front levers. Training for climbing will make you better at climbing.
> If you started off not knowing what a front lever was, trained and trained till you could do one, what is your likely jump in climbing grade going to be?
None. Training to complete a front lever will make you better at front levers. Training for climbing will make you better at climbing.
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In reply to zimpara:
Training can be distilled down to one word; specificity.
Levers can benefit your climbing depending on your weaknesses and not necessarily directly. But training for levers wont necessarily improve your climbing .
Training can be distilled down to one word; specificity.
Levers can benefit your climbing depending on your weaknesses and not necessarily directly. But training for levers wont necessarily improve your climbing .
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In reply to planetmarshall:
I almost agree, but not quite and here's why. I've done various front lever exercises for years (well, not much any more at 72...) All kinds of things, front-lever pullups and muscleups, pulling into front levers from full hang, pulling out of front levers, etc. I never could do Gill's one-arm front lever but managed a lot of other stuff. Point being, I know my way around that move.
Over the years, I've had the opportunity to watch many athletes try front levers, and virtually without exception climbers who have never tried a front lever are better at them than any other type of athlete except, of course, gymnasts. If climbers are unusually good at front levers without having worked on them, the front-lever strength must be developed by climbing and so relevant to it.
I do think people get the wrong idea: I don't think front levers have any particular relevance to climbing roofs. What the strength is actually good for is moves on vertical rock that force you to use very low hands and so lever with your arms to keep your body in.
I also don't think front levers should be viewed as a special "core" exercise. Sure, you use you core, as you do for a host of body-weight moves. But you could get the same core involvement by lying on a bench, with your legs from the waist down off the bench, and maintaining a straight horizontal posture.
I think that what front levers mostly train is the triceps and lats; things that give the straight arm levering strength.
> Training to complete a front lever will make you better at front levers. Training for climbing will make you better at climbing.
I almost agree, but not quite and here's why. I've done various front lever exercises for years (well, not much any more at 72...) All kinds of things, front-lever pullups and muscleups, pulling into front levers from full hang, pulling out of front levers, etc. I never could do Gill's one-arm front lever but managed a lot of other stuff. Point being, I know my way around that move.
Over the years, I've had the opportunity to watch many athletes try front levers, and virtually without exception climbers who have never tried a front lever are better at them than any other type of athlete except, of course, gymnasts. If climbers are unusually good at front levers without having worked on them, the front-lever strength must be developed by climbing and so relevant to it.
I do think people get the wrong idea: I don't think front levers have any particular relevance to climbing roofs. What the strength is actually good for is moves on vertical rock that force you to use very low hands and so lever with your arms to keep your body in.
I also don't think front levers should be viewed as a special "core" exercise. Sure, you use you core, as you do for a host of body-weight moves. But you could get the same core involvement by lying on a bench, with your legs from the waist down off the bench, and maintaining a straight horizontal posture.
I think that what front levers mostly train is the triceps and lats; things that give the straight arm levering strength.
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In reply to zimpara:
If you double those outputs, you will have the strength and potential to climb harder grades. How much harder will depend on your technique, tactics and head game.
Training those exercises from the app will condition all the muscles used for climbing, building on the foundation of conditioning you already have.
To answer your question mate, on a good day i can hold a leaver for a second and climb the same grades as you. Speaks for itself, need to work on the other aspects of climbing...
If you double those outputs, you will have the strength and potential to climb harder grades. How much harder will depend on your technique, tactics and head game.
Training those exercises from the app will condition all the muscles used for climbing, building on the foundation of conditioning you already have.
To answer your question mate, on a good day i can hold a leaver for a second and climb the same grades as you. Speaks for itself, need to work on the other aspects of climbing...
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In reply to zimpara:
If you've a hard project involving a series of feet off, horizontal lurches through a juggy roof then it might make some difference. If not then you're better off going climbing than giving yourself a hernia dangling from a bar.
Want to see a big jump in grades: learn to redpoint.
jk
> If you started off not knowing what a front lever was, trained and trained till you could do one, what is your likely jump in climbing grade going to be?
If you've a hard project involving a series of feet off, horizontal lurches through a juggy roof then it might make some difference. If not then you're better off going climbing than giving yourself a hernia dangling from a bar.
Want to see a big jump in grades: learn to redpoint.
jk
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In reply to zimpara:
I can do neither 12 pull-ups, 18 dips, nor a front lever but can lead 6c. Make of that what you will.
I can do neither 12 pull-ups, 18 dips, nor a front lever but can lead 6c. Make of that what you will.
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In reply to zimpara:
A good way to think about your question is to reflect upon the fact that you will NEVER be able to out-lever a professional gymnast, but it is highly unlikely that a professional gymnast with no climbing background would be able to on-sight flash your grade of 6c (certainly not without some finger training at the very least)!
And looking at it another way, if Megos and Ondra want to climb harder, there is probably little to gain from them improving levers to the level of the Hamm brothers.
> If you started off not knowing what a front lever was, trained and trained till you could do one, what is your likely jump in climbing grade going to be?
A good way to think about your question is to reflect upon the fact that you will NEVER be able to out-lever a professional gymnast, but it is highly unlikely that a professional gymnast with no climbing background would be able to on-sight flash your grade of 6c (certainly not without some finger training at the very least)!
And looking at it another way, if Megos and Ondra want to climb harder, there is probably little to gain from them improving levers to the level of the Hamm brothers.
Post edited at 12:06
In reply to rgold:
That was a really interesting post and completely the opposite of what I would have assumed. But when I think about it, it does make sense.
> I do think people get the wrong idea: I don't think front levers have any particular relevance to climbing roofs. What the strength is actually good for is moves on vertical rock that force you to use very low hands and so lever with your arms to keep your body in.
> I think that what front levers mostly train is the triceps and lats; things that give the straight arm levering strength.
That was a really interesting post and completely the opposite of what I would have assumed. But when I think about it, it does make sense.
In reply to TonyB:
I've found when I've been trying to do them as eccentrics (ie invert on rings and then try to lower down and hold at horizontal) that it's the middle of my back which takes the brunt of it.
I guess actually your legs are in a neutral position when you are in the lever relative to your torso, albeit still horizontal of course...
I've found when I've been trying to do them as eccentrics (ie invert on rings and then try to lower down and hold at horizontal) that it's the middle of my back which takes the brunt of it.
I guess actually your legs are in a neutral position when you are in the lever relative to your torso, albeit still horizontal of course...
In reply to AJM:
You need to maintain what is called a 'hollow' position to protect your back.
> I've found when I've been trying to do them as eccentrics (ie invert on rings and then try to lower down and hold at horizontal) that it's the middle of my back which takes the brunt of it.
> I guess actually your legs are in a neutral position when you are in the lever relative to your torso, albeit still horizontal of course...
You need to maintain what is called a 'hollow' position to protect your back.
In reply to AJM:
Quite. The area being most worked in a front lever is the back rather than shoulders and lats or at least that was the case for me. Though with a full body exercise like the front lever the point of failure is the weakest link.
Given that the climbing move that most closely mimics a front lever is manoeuvring your trunk on a roof and applying force through the footholds I am dubious that it is more useful on other moves but open to being proved wrong
Quite. The area being most worked in a front lever is the back rather than shoulders and lats or at least that was the case for me. Though with a full body exercise like the front lever the point of failure is the weakest link.
Given that the climbing move that most closely mimics a front lever is manoeuvring your trunk on a roof and applying force through the footholds I am dubious that it is more useful on other moves but open to being proved wrong
In reply to :
The previous responders are right on how big a grade jump in climbing you would see - it's all relative to your current level and what is the current reason your not climbing harder.
That aside, being able to execute a front lever does have massive advantages. The FL is a skill compounded of excellent core, should and arm strength applied with good coordination and body awareness. You cannot hold the FL if these are not well developed, much in the same way you will not be able to complete certain climbs without the same degree of physical development and coordination. I would also add that training a FL frees you from any confusing factors such as size and shape of handholds and finger strength requirements.
Bare in mind that to translate this skill into climbing ability you need to continue to climb lots and work on other area's.
Just to compare stats - I have been climbing 10yrs, up to F8A bouldering and have only now have felt the need to train the FL. This I mostly put down to my height, being 6ft3 with a +6inc ape index meant my core and shoulder strength didn't develop as quickly as it didn't need too, I could always reach stuff comfortably. Shorter people could benefit training the FL earlier on in the grade progression as they are more likely to need to work harder for the equivalent grade.
The previous responders are right on how big a grade jump in climbing you would see - it's all relative to your current level and what is the current reason your not climbing harder.
That aside, being able to execute a front lever does have massive advantages. The FL is a skill compounded of excellent core, should and arm strength applied with good coordination and body awareness. You cannot hold the FL if these are not well developed, much in the same way you will not be able to complete certain climbs without the same degree of physical development and coordination. I would also add that training a FL frees you from any confusing factors such as size and shape of handholds and finger strength requirements.
Bare in mind that to translate this skill into climbing ability you need to continue to climb lots and work on other area's.
Just to compare stats - I have been climbing 10yrs, up to F8A bouldering and have only now have felt the need to train the FL. This I mostly put down to my height, being 6ft3 with a +6inc ape index meant my core and shoulder strength didn't develop as quickly as it didn't need too, I could always reach stuff comfortably. Shorter people could benefit training the FL earlier on in the grade progression as they are more likely to need to work harder for the equivalent grade.
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In reply to galpinos:
" I can do neither 12 pull-ups, 18 dips, nor a front lever but can lead 6c. Make of that what you will."
I can do 2 pull-ups and 0 dips. I probably flash about half the 6c routes I try and my hardest indoor redpoint is 7a+. I've looked at the Psyched app and it seems to think I should be leading 5+.
" I can do neither 12 pull-ups, 18 dips, nor a front lever but can lead 6c. Make of that what you will."
I can do 2 pull-ups and 0 dips. I probably flash about half the 6c routes I try and my hardest indoor redpoint is 7a+. I've looked at the Psyched app and it seems to think I should be leading 5+.
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In reply to AJM:
I think the lower back strain comes from the fact that so many muscle groups are pulling in opposite directions on the back, lats and triceps from above and hip-flexors from below.
If your back isn't straight, it isn't a front lever.
I think this is the misconception I tried to explain earlier. Once you are using your feet and bending your arms, you aren't doing anything trained by front levers, even if you are horizontal, back to the ground.
Personally, I got involved in gymastic move training because I was trying to train for climbing long before there were any climbing gyms, and gymnastics seemed to be something that might carry over. Front levers and one-arm pullups might give elite climbers some very small advantage in special situations, but most climbers won't see any benefit (I can't say for sure that I ever did) . It can be fun to work on such things---a whole lot more fun the lifting weights for example---but I wouldn't invest time and effort in things like a front lever assuming there will be a noticeable payoff in climbing ability.
> I've found...that it's the middle of my back which takes the brunt of it.
I think the lower back strain comes from the fact that so many muscle groups are pulling in opposite directions on the back, lats and triceps from above and hip-flexors from below.
> You need to maintain what is called a 'hollow' position to protect your back.
If your back isn't straight, it isn't a front lever.
> If you've a hard project involving a series of feet off, horizontal lurches through a juggy roof then it might make some difference.
I think this is the misconception I tried to explain earlier. Once you are using your feet and bending your arms, you aren't doing anything trained by front levers, even if you are horizontal, back to the ground.
Personally, I got involved in gymastic move training because I was trying to train for climbing long before there were any climbing gyms, and gymnastics seemed to be something that might carry over. Front levers and one-arm pullups might give elite climbers some very small advantage in special situations, but most climbers won't see any benefit (I can't say for sure that I ever did) . It can be fun to work on such things---a whole lot more fun the lifting weights for example---but I wouldn't invest time and effort in things like a front lever assuming there will be a noticeable payoff in climbing ability.
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In reply to rgold:
To clarify, when I said middle of my back I meant the centre back, not the lower - I was basically agreeing with you on the point about lats except that I don't know the physiology so well, I was basically hedging my bets on where lats actually are because at the time I wasn't sure
> I think the lower back strain comes from the fact that so many muscle groups are pulling in opposite directions on the back, lats and triceps from above and hip-flexors from below.
To clarify, when I said middle of my back I meant the centre back, not the lower - I was basically agreeing with you on the point about lats except that I don't know the physiology so well, I was basically hedging my bets on where lats actually are because at the time I wasn't sure
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In reply to rgold:
Imagine to my suprise getting on the bar last night, locking lats and chest, pulling lower body off the ground and upwards to a horizontal straightness. Then hanging braced, trying to "row"/bring the bar/hands to my waist. (Strenuous)
Ended up googling a FL. Turns out I can do one easily enough. (Hang horizontal body off vertical arms?) Guessing a low BW and some stength/mind body connection helps.
Imagine to my suprise getting on the bar last night, locking lats and chest, pulling lower body off the ground and upwards to a horizontal straightness. Then hanging braced, trying to "row"/bring the bar/hands to my waist. (Strenuous)
Ended up googling a FL. Turns out I can do one easily enough. (Hang horizontal body off vertical arms?) Guessing a low BW and some stength/mind body connection helps.
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In reply to rgold:
Agreed, and the hollow position DOES manifest in a straight backed lever. Your spine has natural curvature (lordosis). What you are doing in the hollow position is straightening it out with posterior pelvic tilt.
This handstand gives a good example: http://antranik.org/hollow-body-position-importance/
> If your back isn't straight, it isn't a front lever.
Agreed, and the hollow position DOES manifest in a straight backed lever. Your spine has natural curvature (lordosis). What you are doing in the hollow position is straightening it out with posterior pelvic tilt.
This handstand gives a good example: http://antranik.org/hollow-body-position-importance/
Post edited at 08:56
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In reply to zimpara:
Anyone that can do a decent* amount of pull-ups can do a front lever without much practice. No? Show me someone who can do twenty-five pullups in reasonable form (no kip, from bottom to top) but not a front lever. No, exactly, they don't exist.
Some climbers improve quite a bit (a letter grade or so) when they improve their "core"-strength. For most, general core-strength can only be improved by a well thought out training program involving many full body exercises targeting the entire core, i.e. from the shoulders to the bum.
Anyone that can do a decent* amount of pull-ups can do a front lever without much practice. No? Show me someone who can do twenty-five pullups in reasonable form (no kip, from bottom to top) but not a front lever. No, exactly, they don't exist.
Some climbers improve quite a bit (a letter grade or so) when they improve their "core"-strength. For most, general core-strength can only be improved by a well thought out training program involving many full body exercises targeting the entire core, i.e. from the shoulders to the bum.
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In reply to jwi:
*Raises hand*
> Anyone that can do a decent* amount of pull-ups can do a front lever without much practice. No? Show me someone who can do twenty-five pullups in reasonable form (no kip, from bottom to top) but not a front lever. No, exactly, they don't exist.
*Raises hand*
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In reply to zimpara:
FFS.
Didn't it occur to you to google "front lever" before starting a thread on the subject?
Serves me right for posting here.
> Ended up googling a FL. Turns out I can do one easily enough. (Hang horizontal body off vertical arms?) Guessing a low BW and some stength/mind body connection helps.
FFS.
Didn't it occur to you to google "front lever" before starting a thread on the subject?
Serves me right for posting here.
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In reply to Dandan:
If you really can do 25 pullups in good form (are you going all the way up to chest touching the bar? that part is fairly important for the front lever strength), then you should be able to learn a "climbers" front lever in a few sessions. Six sessions tops. By a climbers front lever, I mean a front lever that looks ok-ish but would give you nil points from the Russian judge
If you really can do 25 pullups in good form (are you going all the way up to chest touching the bar? that part is fairly important for the front lever strength), then you should be able to learn a "climbers" front lever in a few sessions. Six sessions tops. By a climbers front lever, I mean a front lever that looks ok-ish but would give you nil points from the Russian judge
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In reply to shark:
I figured a (according to how hard everyone says FLs are, that you were expected to bring your hands to your hips, (crazy strong move) but it seems not.
Now that I infact can front lever, and bat hang for 10 seconds (had an epic last night on the bar trying them and very nearly got f*cked up by the ground,)
why can't I onsight 6a consistently...
I figured a (according to how hard everyone says FLs are, that you were expected to bring your hands to your hips, (crazy strong move) but it seems not.
Now that I infact can front lever, and bat hang for 10 seconds (had an epic last night on the bar trying them and very nearly got f*cked up by the ground,)
why can't I onsight 6a consistently...
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In reply to jwi:
You'll have to trust me on the 25 pull ups, but my front levers are brief, my body is not straight or particularly horizontal and my elbows are distinctly not locked out, I've been trying them on and off for years (admittedly not intensively) without any real improvement.
At the moment I'm working on other bodyweight exercises (handstand, planche, manna) to keep my antagonist work interesting and still my front lever is not really improving.
I'm not necessarily saying this to get some help with it, just wanted to indicate that 25 pull ups doesn't necessarily mean front lever, at least not in my case.
Zimpara, you start a thread on an exercise that you don't even know how to do, then miraculously you discover you can do it? Either you have a gymnastic/bodyweight sports history or I call bullpoop. Having seen your username throughout the forum recently, I know which one I'm going with...
You'll have to trust me on the 25 pull ups, but my front levers are brief, my body is not straight or particularly horizontal and my elbows are distinctly not locked out, I've been trying them on and off for years (admittedly not intensively) without any real improvement.
At the moment I'm working on other bodyweight exercises (handstand, planche, manna) to keep my antagonist work interesting and still my front lever is not really improving.
I'm not necessarily saying this to get some help with it, just wanted to indicate that 25 pull ups doesn't necessarily mean front lever, at least not in my case.
Zimpara, you start a thread on an exercise that you don't even know how to do, then miraculously you discover you can do it? Either you have a gymnastic/bodyweight sports history or I call bullpoop. Having seen your username throughout the forum recently, I know which one I'm going with...
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In reply to zimpara:
Try spending less time trying to do parlour tricks and more time climbing.
> why can't I onsight 6a consistently...
Try spending less time trying to do parlour tricks and more time climbing.
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1
In reply to Shani:
Could you boil it down to a word I can pronounce?
Ta.
> Training can be distilled down to one word; specificity.
Could you boil it down to a word I can pronounce?
Ta.
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In reply to Dandan:
Sorry, I didn't ask you to get all uppity in arms. If I can do one, then I can do one. Suggest you stop asking people to believe that you can do 25 mega pullups then. See. Same thing
Climbers style, no points awarded by the russians.
http://postimg.org/image/c58qwwngh/
Sorry, I didn't ask you to get all uppity in arms. If I can do one, then I can do one. Suggest you stop asking people to believe that you can do 25 mega pullups then. See. Same thing
Climbers style, no points awarded by the russians.
http://postimg.org/image/c58qwwngh/
Post edited at 13:16
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In reply to jwi:
Isn't good form kind of the point of a gymnastic exercise? Otherwise I might as well claim I can do an Iron Cross while standing on the floor.
> ...By a climbers front lever, I mean a front lever that looks ok-ish but would give you nil points from the Russian judge
Isn't good form kind of the point of a gymnastic exercise? Otherwise I might as well claim I can do an Iron Cross while standing on the floor.
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In reply to jwi:
I don't think there is much reason physiologically to think that pullups train front levers. Moreover, high pullup numbers are a feature of muscular endurance, and front levers require high strength for a relatively short period of time, which isn't developed past an initial level by doing ever more pullups.
Over my many (wasted?) years in various non-climbing gyms, I've encountered scores of people who could do 25 pullups (and far more) who couldn't come anywhere near a front lever. (And, as I said earlier, I've encountered lots of climbers who couldn't do all that many pullups who almost had a front lever without training.)
Could all those high-pullup folks learn a front lever "without much practice?" That's so vague it no response is possible, but given from where the people I've seen were starting, I'd guess, from my training experience and the training experience of the gymnasts I hung out with, that most of the high pullup people would need many months, perhaps a year, of consistent work.
> Anyone that can do a decent* amount of pull-ups can do a front lever without much practice. No? Show me someone who can do twenty-five pullups in reasonable form (no kip, from bottom to top) but not a front lever. No, exactly, they don't exist.
I don't think there is much reason physiologically to think that pullups train front levers. Moreover, high pullup numbers are a feature of muscular endurance, and front levers require high strength for a relatively short period of time, which isn't developed past an initial level by doing ever more pullups.
Over my many (wasted?) years in various non-climbing gyms, I've encountered scores of people who could do 25 pullups (and far more) who couldn't come anywhere near a front lever. (And, as I said earlier, I've encountered lots of climbers who couldn't do all that many pullups who almost had a front lever without training.)
Could all those high-pullup folks learn a front lever "without much practice?" That's so vague it no response is possible, but given from where the people I've seen were starting, I'd guess, from my training experience and the training experience of the gymnasts I hung out with, that most of the high pullup people would need many months, perhaps a year, of consistent work.
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In reply to zimpara:
You don't climb enough.
You don't need to do any strength type training to onsight 6a.
> why can't I onsight 6a consistently...
You don't climb enough.
You don't need to do any strength type training to onsight 6a.
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In reply to zimpara:
No points awarded by me either.
I could get myself in that position and take a screen grab from a video too, I still don't claim to be able to do a front lever, sorry.
I'm inclined to believe, as is confirmed by statements on this thread from people clearly more qualified than me, that realistically nobody can do a front lever the first time they try. It's just not a movement that would be trained by doing anything other than front levers, and it needs practice.
It's a bit like climbing, nobody can climb that hard on their first try because there is no equivalent activity that prepares you for it. A few years ago a friend of a friend wanted to start climbing so I agreed to take him to an indoor wall. He was a boxer and regular gym goer, he was strong, lean and generally pretty damn healthy looking. I broke him in 30 minutes, he could barely open a door afterwards.
Either you have a history of gymnastics or similar, or you are lying, that's that. I'm long past getting uppity over trolls.
> Climbers style, no points awarded by the russians.
No points awarded by me either.
I could get myself in that position and take a screen grab from a video too, I still don't claim to be able to do a front lever, sorry.
I'm inclined to believe, as is confirmed by statements on this thread from people clearly more qualified than me, that realistically nobody can do a front lever the first time they try. It's just not a movement that would be trained by doing anything other than front levers, and it needs practice.
It's a bit like climbing, nobody can climb that hard on their first try because there is no equivalent activity that prepares you for it. A few years ago a friend of a friend wanted to start climbing so I agreed to take him to an indoor wall. He was a boxer and regular gym goer, he was strong, lean and generally pretty damn healthy looking. I broke him in 30 minutes, he could barely open a door afterwards.
Either you have a history of gymnastics or similar, or you are lying, that's that. I'm long past getting uppity over trolls.
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In reply to zimpara:
Looks more like an L-Sit Pull Up than a lever...bent arms, piked at the hips....
> Sorry, I didn't ask you to get all uppity in arms. If I can do one, then I can do one. Suggest you stop asking people to believe that you can do 25 mega pullups then. See. Same thing
> Climbers style, no points awarded by the russians.
Looks more like an L-Sit Pull Up than a lever...bent arms, piked at the hips....
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In reply to Shani:
It could be the photo angle, but yes your body doesn't look at all horizontal here, looks like it's bent at the hips. That's not being picky, it's a completely different position. It's like claiming a hand stand against the wall is a "climber's hand stand".
> Looks more like an L-Sit Pull Up than a lever...bent arms, piked at the hips....
It could be the photo angle, but yes your body doesn't look at all horizontal here, looks like it's bent at the hips. That's not being picky, it's a completely different position. It's like claiming a hand stand against the wall is a "climber's hand stand".
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In reply to planetmarshall:
Bearing in mind the fleece im wearing is not fairing well against gravity and dropping away from body, I'll do it topless next time. Not having a go at anyone. Truth is truth. Can i get a like then, Russki?
Bearing in mind the fleece im wearing is not fairing well against gravity and dropping away from body, I'll do it topless next time. Not having a go at anyone. Truth is truth. Can i get a like then, Russki?
Post edited at 16:06
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In reply to zimpara:
A picture from the side would be more informative. Here's a picture of Dave Mac performing one. Not exactly perfect form, even to my eyes, but definitely recognisable as a front lever. If yours looks anything like that I'd say you're doing pretty well.
http://davemacleod.blogspot.co.uk/2015/03/its-foot-off-time.html
> Bearing in mind the fleece im wearing is not fairing well against gravity and dropping away from body, I'll do it topless next time.
A picture from the side would be more informative. Here's a picture of Dave Mac performing one. Not exactly perfect form, even to my eyes, but definitely recognisable as a front lever. If yours looks anything like that I'd say you're doing pretty well.
http://davemacleod.blogspot.co.uk/2015/03/its-foot-off-time.html
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In reply to zimpara:
The way to becoming a better lover, is not through increasing the number of times a day you masterbate.
Climbing is much the same
> If you started off not knowing what a front lever was, trained and trained till you could do one, what is your likely jump in climbing grade going to be?
> Only ask as this app psyched from this thread- http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=640962
> Relies on tests you can do as a sort of tracking program.
> So if i can achieve 6c lead with 18 dips and 12 pullups. What happens if you doubled those outputs... easily done with a bit of training, considering I only weight 65kg. Or 10 stone flat
The way to becoming a better lover, is not through increasing the number of times a day you masterbate.
Climbing is much the same
Post edited at 16:31
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In reply to planetmarshall:
An impressive feat and yes, recognisable as a front lever, but don't underestimate how much easier the move is made by his bent arms (that is WHY he has bent arms as it makes the move easier. If he could do it with straight arms he would!)
Here is a climber doing a front lever. He's not Russian and it's not a 'climbers front-lever'!
http://bit.ly/1THQ86z
> A picture from the side would be more informative. Here's a picture of Dave Mac performing one. Not exactly perfect form, even to my eyes, but definitely recognisable as a front lever. If yours looks anything like that I'd say you're doing pretty well.
An impressive feat and yes, recognisable as a front lever, but don't underestimate how much easier the move is made by his bent arms (that is WHY he has bent arms as it makes the move easier. If he could do it with straight arms he would!)
Here is a climber doing a front lever. He's not Russian and it's not a 'climbers front-lever'!
http://bit.ly/1THQ86z
Post edited at 17:01
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In reply to Andy Hardy:
I'll go find one. In the meantime have a like.
> Could you boil it down to a word I can pronounce?
> Ta.
I'll go find one. In the meantime have a like.
In reply to zimpara:
I would imagine it's because you're not very good at climbing, and instead of trying to get better by climbing more, you spend your time trying to get stronger.
I would imagine it's because you're not very good at climbing, and instead of trying to get better by climbing more, you spend your time trying to get stronger.
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In reply to galpinos:
I would imagine it's because you're not very good at climbing, and instead of trying to get better by climbing more, you spend your time trying to get stronger.
Imagine if he wrote a blog as well as posting on UKC...
I would imagine it's because you're not very good at climbing, and instead of trying to get better by climbing more, you spend your time trying to get stronger.
Imagine if he wrote a blog as well as posting on UKC...
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