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Hey
Wanted to give this a try mid June this year.
Myself and my girlfriend - both fit and climbed and scrambled in Wales and the lakes, but only downside is whilst we've both stomped around in the snow a bit (on and off crampons) a bit we don't have a lot of time together roped up and moving together on glaciers - but I can't seem to get a reasonable picture as some people seem to be doing it in running shoes and with their 8 year old kids and others threatening death at the bottom of the bergschrund!
What kind of condition is the glacier in? If it's there (not scree) is it worth going with b1's, axes and walking crampons? Approach/walking shoes and yaktrax? Is this a suitable "first time" intro to this kind of thing?
So far I've gleaned
- Go early (hit gorge before 0630)
- Carry more than you think and warm kit
- Budget 6-7hrs
- Watch weather religiously and take waterproofs
If the worst comes to the worst we'll hike the Reintal route but it would be a real shame not to enjoy this!
Wanted to give this a try mid June this year.
Myself and my girlfriend - both fit and climbed and scrambled in Wales and the lakes, but only downside is whilst we've both stomped around in the snow a bit (on and off crampons) a bit we don't have a lot of time together roped up and moving together on glaciers - but I can't seem to get a reasonable picture as some people seem to be doing it in running shoes and with their 8 year old kids and others threatening death at the bottom of the bergschrund!
What kind of condition is the glacier in? If it's there (not scree) is it worth going with b1's, axes and walking crampons? Approach/walking shoes and yaktrax? Is this a suitable "first time" intro to this kind of thing?
So far I've gleaned
- Go early (hit gorge before 0630)
- Carry more than you think and warm kit
- Budget 6-7hrs
- Watch weather religiously and take waterproofs
If the worst comes to the worst we'll hike the Reintal route but it would be a real shame not to enjoy this!
In reply to neuromancer:
Me and my girlfriend climbed Zugspitze by the Hollental route last year, mid August. Obviously it depends on the weather at the time you go, but if you dress for a summer day in Wales (with lightweight waterproofs in your bag, basic day kit, water, snacks etc.) then you will be fine.
We wore B2 boots for the whole route and used G12 crampons to walk over the glacier section. It's about 500/600 metres long I would (very roughly) guess. We didn't use axes. We didn't see a single other soul with an axe. Nobody used ropes. It was a baking hot day, had been for some time before we went so the glacier was 'dry' and you could see where to walk / where to avoid (accepting there is the risk of falling through with any glacier as you cannot be sure what is underneath).
I go to the Alps every year and of course travelling on glaciers usually involves roping up and axes - but I still say for this route it will take you longer to flake your ropes and take in coils than it will take you to just walk across it without.
I haven't used walking crampons so couldn't really comment. I would say apart from the glacier section you could do the rest of the route comfortably and safely in walking boots or (on a dry day) approach shoes.
I agree with the early start. And for your estimated time to complete it depending of course on how fit you both are and how quickly you move.
Watch the weather forecasts as always for any mountain trip.
You haven't mentioned climbing kit but you will need a harness and via ferrata set. We bought perfectly good ones from Decathlon which were made by the French climbing company Symond for £35. Did the job.
Me and my girlfriend climbed Zugspitze by the Hollental route last year, mid August. Obviously it depends on the weather at the time you go, but if you dress for a summer day in Wales (with lightweight waterproofs in your bag, basic day kit, water, snacks etc.) then you will be fine.
We wore B2 boots for the whole route and used G12 crampons to walk over the glacier section. It's about 500/600 metres long I would (very roughly) guess. We didn't use axes. We didn't see a single other soul with an axe. Nobody used ropes. It was a baking hot day, had been for some time before we went so the glacier was 'dry' and you could see where to walk / where to avoid (accepting there is the risk of falling through with any glacier as you cannot be sure what is underneath).
I go to the Alps every year and of course travelling on glaciers usually involves roping up and axes - but I still say for this route it will take you longer to flake your ropes and take in coils than it will take you to just walk across it without.
I haven't used walking crampons so couldn't really comment. I would say apart from the glacier section you could do the rest of the route comfortably and safely in walking boots or (on a dry day) approach shoes.
I agree with the early start. And for your estimated time to complete it depending of course on how fit you both are and how quickly you move.
Watch the weather forecasts as always for any mountain trip.
You haven't mentioned climbing kit but you will need a harness and via ferrata set. We bought perfectly good ones from Decathlon which were made by the French climbing company Symond for £35. Did the job.
In reply to hcmcsec:
That's hugely helpful. Thank you.
If you were going back would you do the whole thing again in b2's or just carry some for the glacier? (Assuming good weather)
Could you offer any advice on what I have read as a bit of a 'jump' to regain the second VF section after the glacier?
Was there anywhere there renting kit eg crampons (to save weight or space flying) or is it worth just bringing your own (I have one VF set and we already have harnesses etc)?
Finally would you recommend staying at the top or getting the cable car down and if so, booking it before?
Appreciate your time!
That's hugely helpful. Thank you.
If you were going back would you do the whole thing again in b2's or just carry some for the glacier? (Assuming good weather)
Could you offer any advice on what I have read as a bit of a 'jump' to regain the second VF section after the glacier?
Was there anywhere there renting kit eg crampons (to save weight or space flying) or is it worth just bringing your own (I have one VF set and we already have harnesses etc)?
Finally would you recommend staying at the top or getting the cable car down and if so, booking it before?
Appreciate your time!
Post edited at 15:33
In reply to neuromancer:
If I did it again I wouldn't necessarily wear B2 boots for this trip. We wore them because we were not sure what to expect, and because we already had them and had matching C2 crampons. I wouldn't carry some just for the glacier section, it's not worth it. If you have some B1 boots and can get a similar walking crampon or spikes to match then I think they would be fine in summer conditions, even in rain, and I would just wear them the whole time.
The gap at the top of the glacier (the randkluft to be exact, rather than a bergschrund) was not as bad as thought. We also weren't sure what to expect and had visions of some sort of death defying chasm. It obviously changes with time, depends on how much snow there was the winter before, how hot the summer has been, but it takes years to massively change so won't be that different to when we went last year. You could reach across, take hold of the via ferrata cable, clip into it and step across. My g/f is more vertically challenged at 5'6 and found it a fraction trickier but still no problem.
As we had our own kit I didn't check out hire places but there are plenty of kit shops in Garmisch and I would be amazed if you can't hire the kit.
I would avoid staying at the top. They probably wouldn't let you stay in any of the buildings at the top, and the surrounding terrain is bare and bleak. I love a bit of wild camping or bivvying but IMHO it would be grim and a relationship threatening decision to stay the night instead of heading back down.
We did the route on a Friday, it was busy as we were in the middle of the holidays, and the last cable car was busy. But worth getting down if you can. You can get a train from the bottom of the cable car back to the start of the Hollental route or straight back into Garmisch town centre.
The Hollental hut was being rebuilt when we went which made the decision for us, but if it is open again and if you have time then staying there the night before would shave a few hours off your time, you could stay in the hut or maybe camp nearby, and have a much shorter 'summit day' with a lot more time to get the cable car back down from the top. That was what we originally intended to do but as I say it was being rebuilt which forced our hand.
I have to say we went for a long weekend, Thursday to Sunday, spent the last day looking around Munich, and had an epic mountain weekend. I know the crumbly, bearded, pipe smoking purists (no offence to you all) may say it's not 'proper' mountaineering but who cares - it's a great, fun trip. The route is fun, the views are amazing, they sell beer and chips at the top. Garmisch is very friendly with great food and nice people. What more do you want.
We raved about how great the trip was so much that some friends went out 2 weeks later and did the same trip.
Happy to answer as many questions as you can think of on this. I think it's a real gem.
If I did it again I wouldn't necessarily wear B2 boots for this trip. We wore them because we were not sure what to expect, and because we already had them and had matching C2 crampons. I wouldn't carry some just for the glacier section, it's not worth it. If you have some B1 boots and can get a similar walking crampon or spikes to match then I think they would be fine in summer conditions, even in rain, and I would just wear them the whole time.
The gap at the top of the glacier (the randkluft to be exact, rather than a bergschrund) was not as bad as thought. We also weren't sure what to expect and had visions of some sort of death defying chasm. It obviously changes with time, depends on how much snow there was the winter before, how hot the summer has been, but it takes years to massively change so won't be that different to when we went last year. You could reach across, take hold of the via ferrata cable, clip into it and step across. My g/f is more vertically challenged at 5'6 and found it a fraction trickier but still no problem.
As we had our own kit I didn't check out hire places but there are plenty of kit shops in Garmisch and I would be amazed if you can't hire the kit.
I would avoid staying at the top. They probably wouldn't let you stay in any of the buildings at the top, and the surrounding terrain is bare and bleak. I love a bit of wild camping or bivvying but IMHO it would be grim and a relationship threatening decision to stay the night instead of heading back down.
We did the route on a Friday, it was busy as we were in the middle of the holidays, and the last cable car was busy. But worth getting down if you can. You can get a train from the bottom of the cable car back to the start of the Hollental route or straight back into Garmisch town centre.
The Hollental hut was being rebuilt when we went which made the decision for us, but if it is open again and if you have time then staying there the night before would shave a few hours off your time, you could stay in the hut or maybe camp nearby, and have a much shorter 'summit day' with a lot more time to get the cable car back down from the top. That was what we originally intended to do but as I say it was being rebuilt which forced our hand.
I have to say we went for a long weekend, Thursday to Sunday, spent the last day looking around Munich, and had an epic mountain weekend. I know the crumbly, bearded, pipe smoking purists (no offence to you all) may say it's not 'proper' mountaineering but who cares - it's a great, fun trip. The route is fun, the views are amazing, they sell beer and chips at the top. Garmisch is very friendly with great food and nice people. What more do you want.
We raved about how great the trip was so much that some friends went out 2 weeks later and did the same trip.
Happy to answer as many questions as you can think of on this. I think it's a real gem.
2
In reply to neuromancer:
It's a great trip. I did it with a friend in July 2010, and we stayed overnight in the old Hollental hut - there is now a brand new one.
You will need VF kit. It was very hot, and we didn't take enough water with us.
I don't know what the glacier is like now, but we used crampons, but not axes, and no rope. It was very straightforward, with easily avoidable crevasses, but with a slightly steeper ice slope and a bit of a bergschrund as you approach the foot of the upper VF section.
We took the cable car down.
Pics here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/roofofeurope/albums/72157624368322443
Have a great time!
It's a great trip. I did it with a friend in July 2010, and we stayed overnight in the old Hollental hut - there is now a brand new one.
You will need VF kit. It was very hot, and we didn't take enough water with us.
I don't know what the glacier is like now, but we used crampons, but not axes, and no rope. It was very straightforward, with easily avoidable crevasses, but with a slightly steeper ice slope and a bit of a bergschrund as you approach the foot of the upper VF section.
We took the cable car down.
Pics here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/roofofeurope/albums/72157624368322443
Have a great time!
2
In reply to neuromancer:
Great pics, and only given me more impetus to do it.
Also hoping it will whet her appetite to do more "real" (whatever that means) alpine adventures with me and give her a bit of confidence at height.
I was under the mistaken impression that you could stay at the thing on top (which I assumed was part restaurant, part hotel). The hut sounds possible - but I'd like to do it in a day to make it a bit more of "Grand outing".
Any suggestions on anything else similar to do also in the rough area (if we're bringing all the kit to go up and have a car there)? I did consider bringing rock shoes and some draws and a rope if we're bringing boots and harnesses e.t.c, but at some point you have to call it quits otherwise you end up bringing the kitchen sink (and the mountain bike...).
I just wonder whether we could get away with yak trax, walking poles and approach shoes (so we don't have to lug our b1's around uselessly with us for the rest of a two week holiday).
Great pics, and only given me more impetus to do it.
Also hoping it will whet her appetite to do more "real" (whatever that means) alpine adventures with me and give her a bit of confidence at height.
I was under the mistaken impression that you could stay at the thing on top (which I assumed was part restaurant, part hotel). The hut sounds possible - but I'd like to do it in a day to make it a bit more of "Grand outing".
Any suggestions on anything else similar to do also in the rough area (if we're bringing all the kit to go up and have a car there)? I did consider bringing rock shoes and some draws and a rope if we're bringing boots and harnesses e.t.c, but at some point you have to call it quits otherwise you end up bringing the kitchen sink (and the mountain bike...).
I just wonder whether we could get away with yak trax, walking poles and approach shoes (so we don't have to lug our b1's around uselessly with us for the rest of a two week holiday).
In reply to neuromancer:
Have a look at older threads, there is plenty detailed information already.
I did the route several times, once with my then 12 year old daughter. However, Zugspitze is a proper alpine peak, and conditions can be changing rapidly. I once dragged a guy up the last couple hundreds of meters who was completely overexerted and dehydrated on a sunny day, so I had to take his rucksack, short rope him, and clip his VF kit for him. From the valley, it is 2200m of elevation gain, nothing technical, but especially the bit along the old moraine between the lower ferrata and the glacier can drag on a bit. Still, I would always do it in one day rather than stay at the Höllentalanger hut.
On another occasion I heard a guy call for help from a crevasse (but unfortunately thought after a while it was guys shouting from the summit. Glad the guy was pulled out alive a couple of days later). The glacier may be dying, but it still is a proper glacier with crevasses and all.
Most likely, the glacier will be snow covered in June, with a track avoiding the crevasse zone, in which case you should be fine w/o crampons. If dry, I would not want to do it without at least light crampons and axe.
The one time I did it in June, the cables were still partly snow covered, but that may change from year to year,best have a look at the webcams.
The Reintal route is much nicer going down! If you are worried about the glacier, I would rather recommend the "Stopselzieher" route from the Austrian side (Ehrwald) via the Wiener-Neustädter hut.
CB
Have a look at older threads, there is plenty detailed information already.
I did the route several times, once with my then 12 year old daughter. However, Zugspitze is a proper alpine peak, and conditions can be changing rapidly. I once dragged a guy up the last couple hundreds of meters who was completely overexerted and dehydrated on a sunny day, so I had to take his rucksack, short rope him, and clip his VF kit for him. From the valley, it is 2200m of elevation gain, nothing technical, but especially the bit along the old moraine between the lower ferrata and the glacier can drag on a bit. Still, I would always do it in one day rather than stay at the Höllentalanger hut.
On another occasion I heard a guy call for help from a crevasse (but unfortunately thought after a while it was guys shouting from the summit. Glad the guy was pulled out alive a couple of days later). The glacier may be dying, but it still is a proper glacier with crevasses and all.
Most likely, the glacier will be snow covered in June, with a track avoiding the crevasse zone, in which case you should be fine w/o crampons. If dry, I would not want to do it without at least light crampons and axe.
The one time I did it in June, the cables were still partly snow covered, but that may change from year to year,best have a look at the webcams.
The Reintal route is much nicer going down! If you are worried about the glacier, I would rather recommend the "Stopselzieher" route from the Austrian side (Ehrwald) via the Wiener-Neustädter hut.
CB
In reply to neuromancer:
We had another day out on the nearby Alpspitze VF (klettersteige) - crowded but fun. There are others, but I'm only aware of German-language guide books.
I haven't used yaktrax so I can't really comment.
The Munchner Haus is a DAV hut on the summit of the Zugspitze, so you could stay there https://www.davplus.de/muenchner-haus
If you wanted a big adventure you could look at the Jubilaumsgrat between the Zugspitze and the Alpspitze - it's a much more serious route, only part of which has VF cables - but I haven't done it myself.
We had another day out on the nearby Alpspitze VF (klettersteige) - crowded but fun. There are others, but I'm only aware of German-language guide books.
I haven't used yaktrax so I can't really comment.
The Munchner Haus is a DAV hut on the summit of the Zugspitze, so you could stay there https://www.davplus.de/muenchner-haus
If you wanted a big adventure you could look at the Jubilaumsgrat between the Zugspitze and the Alpspitze - it's a much more serious route, only part of which has VF cables - but I haven't done it myself.
In reply to neuromancer:
I agree, great pics.
Lots of other hiking, via ferrata and hills to be discovered in the nearby area.
Personally if you are heading into a mountain area I wouldn't rule out taking a decent pair of hiking boots for you on your trip, but of course it's a matter of personal choice.
We bought a map - you do not need it at all for route finding on the Hollental route, but does show you the many other routes and places you could visit if you are in the area. It is also surprisingly a full colour, waterproof thing of beauty...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Zugspitze-GPS-Mieminger-Kette-kompass/dp/385026713...
Maybe also worth a look on the main tourism website which gives lots more ideas and links for things to do...
http://zugspitze.de/en/summer
On the day after our Zugspitze summit we went up Mount Wank. Walk to the bottom of Garmisch and you can find the start of the route or the cable car to the summit. Yes, you can get lots of childishly funny photos based on the name, but you also get awesome views from the top in all directions (weather permitting!!) as well as nice lunch in the pub on the summit. You get amazing views back across to Zugspitze, Alpspitze...
I agree, great pics.
Lots of other hiking, via ferrata and hills to be discovered in the nearby area.
Personally if you are heading into a mountain area I wouldn't rule out taking a decent pair of hiking boots for you on your trip, but of course it's a matter of personal choice.
We bought a map - you do not need it at all for route finding on the Hollental route, but does show you the many other routes and places you could visit if you are in the area. It is also surprisingly a full colour, waterproof thing of beauty...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Zugspitze-GPS-Mieminger-Kette-kompass/dp/385026713...
Maybe also worth a look on the main tourism website which gives lots more ideas and links for things to do...
http://zugspitze.de/en/summer
On the day after our Zugspitze summit we went up Mount Wank. Walk to the bottom of Garmisch and you can find the start of the route or the cable car to the summit. Yes, you can get lots of childishly funny photos based on the name, but you also get awesome views from the top in all directions (weather permitting!!) as well as nice lunch in the pub on the summit. You get amazing views back across to Zugspitze, Alpspitze...
In reply to neuromancer:
I did it about 6 years ago and really enjoyed it. I'd recommend staying in the Hollental hut as it was a much nicer experience all round. We spent ages in the gorge taking photos etc, paddling in the stream and it makes the summit day less of a rush to make the cable car down.
You definitely need b1 boots as a minimum. I wouldn't wear approach shoes. No crampons or axe although we wore helmets, stuff was bouncing down the glacier at one point.
I also took a 30m rope but didn't use it.
Have a great trip!
I did it about 6 years ago and really enjoyed it. I'd recommend staying in the Hollental hut as it was a much nicer experience all round. We spent ages in the gorge taking photos etc, paddling in the stream and it makes the summit day less of a rush to make the cable car down.
You definitely need b1 boots as a minimum. I wouldn't wear approach shoes. No crampons or axe although we wore helmets, stuff was bouncing down the glacier at one point.
I also took a 30m rope but didn't use it.
Have a great trip!
In reply to hcmcsec:
Happy to take hiking boots, but dislike actual hiking in b1's. Hence the hope it could be done simply.
Anyway, cheers for the help all!
Happy to take hiking boots, but dislike actual hiking in b1's. Hence the hope it could be done simply.
Anyway, cheers for the help all!
In reply to neuromancer:
I did the Hollental route summer 2011. Despite the time of year, the whole route from the glacier upwards was in a cloud, everything was covered in snow, which was on top of a layer of water ice, and every now and again, the VF wire disappeared under the ice and snow. It was my first 'big' mountain and was, as I recall, really scary. About two thirds of the way up, there was also thunder that sounded far too close to be fun, but we couldn't go backwards. So whilst I am sure 90 % of the time it is lovely, just a heads up that it can be a bit more 'type 2' ! The cable car back down was very welcome!
I did the Hollental route summer 2011. Despite the time of year, the whole route from the glacier upwards was in a cloud, everything was covered in snow, which was on top of a layer of water ice, and every now and again, the VF wire disappeared under the ice and snow. It was my first 'big' mountain and was, as I recall, really scary. About two thirds of the way up, there was also thunder that sounded far too close to be fun, but we couldn't go backwards. So whilst I am sure 90 % of the time it is lovely, just a heads up that it can be a bit more 'type 2' ! The cable car back down was very welcome!
In reply to neuromancer:
Hey. I just did it last Saturday (11th June). There was a lot of rain in the valley and snow on higher ground. Lot's of snow in the glacier and in the second via ferrata. I would definitely take an ice axe and crampons! We did not need them because there was so much snow that you could just kick some steps but the glacier is a bit steep and if the snow is gone it is much safer to do it in crampons.
We left at 5:00 a.m from the car park with a group of Dutch people (most of them with very little experience) and a few German guides. Yes, carry all your winter kit and waterproofs (we had temperatures around freezing, lots of snow and wind). The move from the glacier to the second via ferrata is indeed a bit tricky but feasible.
There was so much snow at the second via ferrata that the cable was not visible in some portions, most of them very steep. If you have experience moving in the snow they are manageable but I would not do it without an ice axe. The guides fixed some ropes so the group could move safely but there was a second group badly equipped (using little pieces of cord as a via ferrata set and without ropes) ... You should use a proper via ferrata set, in case of a fall the consequences can be pretty serious.
We did the route in 10 hours and took the cable car down. Later that day a couple had to be rescue because they got stuck in the mountain... not sure why but the report said they were not properly equiped. Most of the people in my group did not have a headtorch!... The rescue took 6 hours, one helicopter and 9 people. They even had to re-open the cable car to bring rescuers to the top...
So in summary: Yes take crampons and a walking ice axe, a 50 meter rope should be enough, full winter kit, waterproofs, headtorch, etc... leave early. The route is great but be smart and climb safe.
Hey. I just did it last Saturday (11th June). There was a lot of rain in the valley and snow on higher ground. Lot's of snow in the glacier and in the second via ferrata. I would definitely take an ice axe and crampons! We did not need them because there was so much snow that you could just kick some steps but the glacier is a bit steep and if the snow is gone it is much safer to do it in crampons.
We left at 5:00 a.m from the car park with a group of Dutch people (most of them with very little experience) and a few German guides. Yes, carry all your winter kit and waterproofs (we had temperatures around freezing, lots of snow and wind). The move from the glacier to the second via ferrata is indeed a bit tricky but feasible.
There was so much snow at the second via ferrata that the cable was not visible in some portions, most of them very steep. If you have experience moving in the snow they are manageable but I would not do it without an ice axe. The guides fixed some ropes so the group could move safely but there was a second group badly equipped (using little pieces of cord as a via ferrata set and without ropes) ... You should use a proper via ferrata set, in case of a fall the consequences can be pretty serious.
We did the route in 10 hours and took the cable car down. Later that day a couple had to be rescue because they got stuck in the mountain... not sure why but the report said they were not properly equiped. Most of the people in my group did not have a headtorch!... The rescue took 6 hours, one helicopter and 9 people. They even had to re-open the cable car to bring rescuers to the top...
So in summary: Yes take crampons and a walking ice axe, a 50 meter rope should be enough, full winter kit, waterproofs, headtorch, etc... leave early. The route is great but be smart and climb safe.
1
In reply to neuromancer:
I did it on my own this morning. There is still a lot of snow in the upper part of the second via ferrata hiding the cables but it`s nothing to worry about if you feel comfortable in easy mixed terrain. It`s nice to have an axe. Glacier can be done without crampons, Bergschrund is easy at the moment. Took me a little over 4.5 hours from the parking lot to the summit. Not many people on the route which is rare.
I did it on my own this morning. There is still a lot of snow in the upper part of the second via ferrata hiding the cables but it`s nothing to worry about if you feel comfortable in easy mixed terrain. It`s nice to have an axe. Glacier can be done without crampons, Bergschrund is easy at the moment. Took me a little over 4.5 hours from the parking lot to the summit. Not many people on the route which is rare.
Post edited at 18:38
2
In reply to neuromancer:
Hi Guys.
Thanks for all the help.
We got out there about a week ago, and took a lovely run up to the start of the route up the valley (and got soaked in the canyon).
I decided in the end that there was a bit too much snow up high for my partner's first a) via ferrata and then it would turn out to be her first b) alpine mixed climb!
Also we had no axes or ropes. I talked to the guy in wnalpin in garmisch and he said he'd spoken with the german guides. I think I would have been comfortable myself but decided not to push her.
In the end we did the up and over and tour around the alpspitze, but I will be back as soon as I get a chance to go up the hollental myself!
Hi Guys.
Thanks for all the help.
We got out there about a week ago, and took a lovely run up to the start of the route up the valley (and got soaked in the canyon).
I decided in the end that there was a bit too much snow up high for my partner's first a) via ferrata and then it would turn out to be her first b) alpine mixed climb!
Also we had no axes or ropes. I talked to the guy in wnalpin in garmisch and he said he'd spoken with the german guides. I think I would have been comfortable myself but decided not to push her.
In the end we did the up and over and tour around the alpspitze, but I will be back as soon as I get a chance to go up the hollental myself!
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