UKC

Im 33, 74kg and 179cm, I eat healthily and exercise regularly yet I get aches and pains in my joints regularly. I cant take anti inflammatories like Ibuprofen so have been looking at alternatives / supplements that may help.
So far Ive tried Glucosamine, Turmeric / golden paste, cod liver oil, Cat's claw extract,, Boswellia.

Any advice / suggestions welcomed please/

In reply to Pesda potato:

What about ice or TENS? Is paracetamol any good and have you considered topicals such as Voltarol.
You are doing quite a lot based on the running threads- are you overtraining and need to have a rest?

HTH S

In reply to Pesda potato:

Have you had your blood urate levels checked? My finger and toe joints often hurt after training (not helped by the chronic damage of almost 40 years of judo). I also have / had elevated urate levels, even if I did not have full blown gout. Still, the joint pain got much better since I started avoiding certain types of food.

CB

In reply to Pesda potato:

i have a routine full blood test every three months, I think urate is on that, ill double check thanks for the suggestion.

Paracetemol is a pain relief but not an anti inflammatory, so it gets rid of the discomfort but the inflammation causing the damage is still there.
Ive tried the topical stuff like ibulieve and voltarol, the heat / cold gels but they dont do anything and my belief in them is limited from what ive read too they only provide a topical distraction.

Im fairly sure Im not over training, i mix it up from road / trail / fell, and mtb and road cycling, usually one day on one day off. I increase my milage gradually but always feel my joints are holding me back from being able to train more regularly for marathon / ultras.

In reply to Pesda potato:



I'm pretty sure that inflammation is a response to damage and not vice versa. I doubt long-term drug use is the solution you are after anyway.


I think you are right regarding hot/cold gels, but Ibulieve and Voltarol contain medications (ibuprofen/diclofenac) that enter the blood stream through the skin. These are both NSAIDs so will reduce inflammation. I assume you don;t take NSAIDs orally due to stomach issues? If there's some other reasons you might want to avoid the topical versions too.

Are you sure that dietary changes/supplementation are the best avenue to be exploring. Could the root of the problem lie in your running style or muscle balance? Good luck finding out, joint pain is a pain!

In reply to Pesda potato:
I have a personal and family history of joint problems. The high Brufen diet has never been a problem for me when used sparingly during specific episodes but I have seen it cause stomach and anaemia problems.

My other approaches have been
- lots of mackerel
- keep weight down
- Voltarol
- Glucosamine Sulphate (still not sure about this stuff)
- strengthen the muscles around the joint (without over-stressing the joint in the process)
- learn when to stop


Note:
Ibuprofen is not exclusive anti-inflammatory and Paracetamol is not exclusively analgesic.

In reply to Pesda potato:

Ginger is supposed to be good as an anti-inflammatory, as is the turmeric based golden paste you mentioned earlier.

In reply to Pesda potato:

Thanks for the replies so far.
Inflammation it's normally a response to injury however for other reasons the body can create inflammation or continue after the injury and further damage the tissue

Mackerel and sardines I eat about three or four times a week and plenty of nuts and seeds.

In reply to Pesda potato:
The only supplements shown to have a meaningful effect upon joint health and inflammation are fish oils (omegas etc) and even then the effect is minor to negligible, especially if you already eat a bit of fish.

Everything else is pretty much snake oil, glucosamine included.

If you wanted to take the snake oil for placebo benefits, glucosamine, chondiritin and msm are the 'cures de jour'.

If you ever have any questions about the efficacy of supplements just go straight to examine.com and ignore the mad hatters.

I have degenerative arthritis and I too wish there was a cure. Have you had your esr and cr-p levels checked by blood? Hla-b27 positive or negative? If anti inflammatories on a regular basis arent cutting it then I it might be time to talk to your doc again.

For what it's worth - and any physio or doc worth their salt will tell you that you're better off taking them regularly rather than in response to spikes. The downside is that they have a big effect upon the training effect and so you don't get as fit or strong as fast.

In reply to Pesda potato:

Supplements are largely a crock of poo designed to extract money from the desperate. IMHO. Apart from some minerals and vitamins - like B/D3.

Do you have data, like know your ESR/CRP blood test results? So if you change your eating/exercise/supplement habits you can see the results?

Since you have regular blood tests, I guess you are on medications, DMARDs perhaps?

If you want to reduce inflammation at source, you need to reduce inflammatory inputs. E.g. look into the ketogenic diet. No not the diet used for kids with intractable epilepsy, but nutritional ketosis. It's the only thing that has really worked for my polyarthralgic joint/back injury pain, and Crohn's. My blood test results are all back into normal non-ill people ranges. Proper book is The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living by Phinney and Volek.

In reply to Pesda potato:

MSM

Methylsulfonylmethane

http://www.msmguide.com/
http://www.msm-info.com/


Brilliant for detoxing the body too.

TS

In reply to That Shallot:

As with chondroitine sulfate, the only measurable effect (except on your purse) will be smellier farts. Not sure that is what you mean by detoxifying.....

CB

In reply to That Shallot:


This seems more like a drug than a benign supplement, it interferes with the Jak2/STAT3 pathway - one to discuss with your doctor rather than just taking a punt.

In reply to cb294:




I haven't noticed any smellier farts I'm afraid
Also its dirt cheap so no big expenditure.
I've found it helpful but that's subjective evidence.
It is reported to be good for joint pain and chronic pain .

"Perhaps the most remarkable discovery regarding MSM is that it is an effective pain killer. MSM works for many types of chronic pain. In March 1999, Stanley W. Jacob, M.D., and Ronald M. Lawrence, M.D., Ph.D., published “The Miracle of MSM: The Natural Solution for Pain”. Their book was based on their experience as medical doctors and MSM researchers. Dr. Jacob is the head of the DMSO Pain Clinic in Portland, OR, and a Professor at the Oregon Health Sciences University, and Dr. Lawrence was the founder of the International Association for the Study of Pain and the American Association for the Study of Headaches. Combined, they have over 20 years of experience with fighting pain with MSM. They concluded that of more than 18,000 patients that suffered from chronic pain, about 70% experienced benefits from the use of MSM, finding that pain either diminished or disappeared altogether."

The types of pain which have been treated successfully with MSM include:

Personal injury due to accidents, burns, etc.
Osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis
Fibromyalgia
Lower back pains
Headaches, migraines
Muscle aches
Bursitis
Tennis elbows and other sports injuries
Carpal Syndrome
Sclerosis
Whiplash
RSI (Repititive Strain Injury)
Scars due to burns, operations, accidents, etc.

This is why I included it in on the thread

TS