UKC

I thought that we had moved on from the colonial language of 'conquering' mountains, until Obama's tweet: "So proud of @TommyCaldwell1 and @KJorgeson for conquering El Capitan. You remind us that anything is possible. -bo". Any thoughts about the inspiring use or annoying abuse of language in describing exploits in 'the vertical world'?

In reply to rtinma:

You've nailed it.

In reply to rtinma:

Sending doesn't bother me but I don't like 'crushing' or 'destroyed' etc, sounds so aggressive.

In reply to aln:

'Sending' bothers me. It's a load of bollocks, bleated out by boring, beanie-wearing bastards. Same with 'crushing'. C*nts.

In reply to aln:


Blame George Mallory. He started it!

In reply to rtinma:

I'm not keen on the phrase "you can climb that!" invariably I can't.

In reply to Jon Stewart:


Isn't that people with beards? Well I mean young people with beards. I've had a beard for 30 years so I'm allowed to have a beard. But those b*stards with beards now..

In reply to rtinma:


I don't see a problem when used against an inanimate piece of rock. Is it a non-issue?

In reply to rtinma:
It's the subtle one that really bothers me - "I've done Germany", or "I've done America" (said with a tone of voice that implies no need to return) - no you have not "done" a whole friggin' country! You've visited like 3 towns, seen the main street on each and bought a blingin' souvenir!!!
Applies to smaller places like Kalymos, Font, North Wales too etc,

In reply to MaxJEF:

Sending just smacks of America. I don't mind americans, but I also don't shout "Venga venga" or "Regardes regardes" either. "Jolly good show", or "effort" will do.
Crushing if used seriously reminds me of the over vain gym guy. No one wants to be the over vain gym guy.
The only things that get destroyed at a crag are my pants, or ego. Sometimes both.

I've often thought sprag, guppy and gaston are all a bit weird when you think about them. One's a fish, another a french service person and sprag just seems strange. What is a sprag actually? In normal life I mean.

In reply to Kevster:


It's a type of pasta that you serve with bolognese sauce.

In reply to Jon Stewart:
Never mind sending, how about getting on the sendtrain for some sendage?

In reply to Kevster:
Think you mean garçon not gaston. Gaston is named after the French guide Gaston Rebuffat, who allegedly invented or at least popularised the move. Originally it involved pulling apart a crack but now it's used for the same type of move even if done with one hand and off any edge rather than a crack.

In reply to rtinma:

Does anyone really care what other people say? It may not be correct in the traditional sense but languages evolve and new phrases are adopted as commonplace.

It just seems something to get unnecessarily upset about when you could just ignore it...

In reply to SenzuBean:


And that like, really like, winds me up - like.

JW (dislike).

In reply to Jon Stewart:


How did "send" come to be used as a climbing term anyway?

In reply to Misha:


I think you'll find the proper phrase is "all aboard the send train to crushville central"

Cheers
mark

In reply to James Malloch:


That's exactly what the terrorists want us to do.




I'm irrationally troubled by non-US boulderers 'duding' each other (to balance things out, Americans trying to show willing and calling British folk 'mate' also sounds weird. Or Home Counties types trying the same)

In reply to Kevster:


What's a sprag in the climbing world? Never heard of it or a guppy for that matter.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Next time someone talks about sending an indoor route, I'll get a T-bar out, take the holds down and post it to them.

Ahem.

In reply to rtinma:

Just be glad 'ascending' wasn't shortened to 'assing' and move on eh?

In reply to rtinma:

It's all about the maximum gainz man.

Get with it grandad.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

Aye me and my mate call them beanie wearing bellends! You get loads of them nowadays. Talk like men not like pussies send it man venga vena horse crap. I prefer get your arse up there! Aye you did alright on that for a bender!

In reply to Postmanpat:
I'm assuming it comes from ascending. Three syllables being one two many for your average American... Joking of course, sort of... :-P

In reply to pec:

Guppy and sprag. Your better of not knowing, hang around with boulderers or harder sport climbers to find out..

In reply to Kevster:

Gaston, as already mentioned, comes from Monsieur Rebuffat's amusing-to-Brits inability or unwillingness to jam a perfectly good jamming crack in a famous photo.

In a similar vein, laybacking in German is "piazen", but in Italian - and French iirc - it's "dulfer". So the Germans think Tita Piaz invented it and taught it to Hans Dülfer, but the Italians think their guy learned it from the Boche.

In reply to Tom Last:

Down wiv da kids as always dude. Have you been destroying in a crush fest frenzy of sendage complete with overly loud and ultimately pointless shouts of encouragement from your team of shirtless fluffers, or have you been making pained toilet noises and a range of conditions/skin/lack of mental motivation related excuses?

Good luck with Bob graham round Tom! Smash it!

James

In reply to sammy5000 and Jon Stewart:




Is it just me who would rather climb with people who are using some form of improper English as opposed to those labelling others "c*nts", "bastards", "bellends", "pussies" and "benders"?

Given the range of users on the forum I'm not sure comments like this are really acceptable? Plus it makes you sound like a bit of a cock...

Ps. As I've just had to star out one of the words to post this due to its inappropriateness I think it's answered one of my questions...

In reply to Mark Westerman:

All aboard All aboard whoah. ... last train to transendral


Sorry, that 80's-early 90's music stays with you.

In reply to rtinma:

I think what we really detest is people showing off. American terms frequently come across in the context of Hollywood performers ...

What we really need here is american contribution to know whether they reciprocally experience our language as irritating.

I reckon the irritation happens with people we don't *know* - which could equally happen with anyone sounding off after topping out. I mean - don't we all do this - and how do our exclamations sound to others? Will they be right-on just because they're British ??

In reply to rtinma:

F*ckers who spout allez at the bouldering gym.

Like they spent one week at font and are fluent in French.

Tw*ts.

In reply to aln:


I'm not good at crushing cruxes, but I have managed to sneak past a few.

In reply to Dave Garnett:


"Sneak it dude!" - sounds good. Think I'll start using it.

In reply to DerwentDiluted:

Choo choo motherf*ckers

In reply to Kevster:


Or alternatively, those who have a basic grasp of English grammar...

JW

In reply to aln:

Well it might were it not said with a whiney, Beavis and Butthead voice.

In reply to rtinma:

I can't stand 'sending'. Horrible Americanism that's becoming more and more popular.

In reply to rtinma:

Oh come on everyone, we are a large community of climbers and should all appreciate that there is a wide diversity of different types of people within our community.

Everyone, regardless of how they speak or what they wear are welcome....well, everyone except those beanie wearing f**ckers, carrying their 'pads' around like some stupid moronic snails. Yeah everyones welcome except them. Ahhh, there's also those bastard trad climbers jangling everywhere and carrying all their f**ckin nuts and cams and other sh1tty bits up and down the crags. What the hell are they doing! Those are the 2 exceptions.....hmmm oh there's also those ripped and talented (so they like to think) 'sporty climbers' hanging on a single bolt for weeks, months, years on end while they 'work' their project. What they mean is they are too crap to actually climb anything. Yeah of course, everyones welcome except those 3 groups of knobs. Don't get me started on about those winter climbers.....



TJB.

In reply to James Malloch:



So you think cock is more acceptable do you? Makes you sound like a bit of a dick.

But seriously, I think you have completely misjudged the tone of the thread.

In reply to rtinma:

Every time I read a thread like this, I add about three things to my "useful phrases to annoy self-righteous bores from UKC" list, and start trying to work them into my vocabulary.

In reply to DerwentDiluted:

Last Train To Transendral...Good name for a FA.

In reply to james mann:

Haha, thanks mate. Gonna be sick'ard

In reply to Mark Westerman:




Choo Choo

In reply to Robert Durran:

I can't see a problem with it and stick by my thought that the two people quoted make themselves out to be, in my eyes, the kind of people I wouldn't want to climb with. Their comments were a generalisation tarring many people with a derogatory term.

Misjudged or not, I think comments like those quoted are completely out of place on a public forum and can be taken in a number of different ways. You wouldn't (I would hope) be racist or homophobic in a joking way so why bring needless and similar comments onto a public forum.

If I quote one of the forum rules/guidelines:

"Rude, abusive or politically offensive language - Messages which contain excessive and pointless swearing, or insults aimed at other people, or politically offensive language will be removed."

From my view, the comments contained excessive and pointless swearing and they were aimed at (a group of) other people, and aren't fit for the forum.

In reply to Climber_Bill:

Exactly why climbing is an uncool parent sport.

Porn is where the cool is at. Until you get bummed and then its pretty shit...

In reply to James Malloch:


But context is everything. I am certain that no offense has been intended by anyone. I think you probably need to lighten up a bit.

I would be especially interested to know whether the first person you quoted was offended by the second person you quoted.

In reply to rtinma:


How do people feel about climbers who 'udge' and 'thrutch' on routes compared to those who 'crush' and 'send'?

In reply to Kevster:

I'm not sure if it's intentional irony or not, but in a post bemoaning Americanisms you then go on to say about destroying your "pants" at the crag, which is all very well if you shit yourself, but I think you mean trousers.

In reply to rtinma:

I get put off by the term 'topping out' - which I'd never encountered in my climbing 'career' before about 1995 or thereabouts.
I also don't like the term 'trad' - though understand that it has its use in distinguishing real climbing from that sport or bouldering stuff

In reply to ScottTalbot:

I'm not so sure about that. Apparently 'send' is also used by surfers and mountain bikers. I reckon it's a synonym for dispatch.

There's a particularly gruesome use of it in the Urban Dictionary - 'You better put a stamp on this climb, cause i'm about to send it!'.

In reply to Greenbanks:


I find "summit" (verb) worse. Just like athletes "medaling".


Yes, not nice but probably necessary.

In reply to Robert Durran:



I'm sure offence isn't intended but it doesn't mean offence won't be taken. And I'm sure that the two people I quoted weren't offended by each other either as they seemed to be taking the same point of view. I wear a beanie sometimes and use words such as "send" and couldn't care less if people spout crap such as the above - the phrases on their own don't bother me in the slightest.

What bothers me, and what prompted me to post, is the SOME people may be offended. Whether that's due to the phrases used, the needless swearing (e.g. "c**ts") or the possible negative homosexual context (e.g. "you did alright on that for a bender") is beside the point.

If people engaged their brain before posting rather than trying to say something that they deem funny in an attempt to gain a laugh or a like, then behavior like this might reduce and stop potential annoyance or upset.

Re. the lighten up comment. If you had a young child who climbed and participated in the forum (no idea if you do) would you want them to come on and read this thread? I don't myself but I certainly wouldn't want a youngster to read this - it send out the wrong messages and detracts from the more friendly and accommodating culture that I hope most people strive for.

In reply to rtinma:

youtube.com/watch?v=HbvYeLxMKN8&

In reply to Greenbanks:
I named my company TopOut Software. I never thought it'd lose me a customer. Oh Noes!

I care not what bland utterances spill from the maws of others as long as they tarry not on my intended passage.

In reply to Robert Durran:



On continent it's often called classic climbing / route or not equipped route.

In reply to James Malloch:


I think that once you assume all content should be child friendly, you could be on a slippery slope to wholesale censorship - numerous posts and threads would be unacceptable (no idea what the official UKC position is though).


It only sends out the wrong message if interpreted in a spirit clearly utterly different from that of those posting; I don't believe anybody who has posted in this thread is being unfriendly or unaccommodating.

In reply to John2:



I've been surfing for 25 years and never heard it used!?! I've only heard it used in climbing in the last few years, although the Americans have clearly been using it for a long time.

In reply to nutme:


"Classic" can also be a synonym for "poorly equipped"

In reply to rtinma:

I hate "catch" a fall. What was ever wrong with "holding" it?

In reply to rtinma:

I hate the use of the shout "take".

It sounds far too much like "safe" and could lead to a disastrous scenario!

"take in" is much more specific.

In reply to rtinma:

Surely 'climbing' is a misnomer for punter activity?

In reply to Trangia:




Funnily enough...

I hate the use of the shout "safe".

It sounds far too much like "take" and could lead to a disastrous scenario!

"Secure" is much more specific.


In fairness, you have the weight of history on your side, but a couple of points in favour of take/secure:

1. when gripped and bricking it, a short word is easier to yell. I think saving the more complicated phrase for the more relaxing situation is appropriate.
2. "secure" translates very well: http://ukdataexplorer.com/european-translator/?word=secure

In reply to eltankos:

No, pants means pants in the English under garment sense. I'd be doing well to destroy the second layer too.
I am however tempted to typo or mess wiv da grammer just for the dude who pulled me up on it, sic. Seems they had a fun day at work.

Peace and love all.

In reply to The Lemming:


Boom!

In reply to rtinma:

What do people thinking of the word "bailing" - as in "I got totally scared and bailed off that route"? As I understand it that was stolen from 90s skateboarding.

In reply to SenzuBean:


I'm sure people have been bailing off routes long before the 90's!

In reply to Robert Durran:


I certainly was. But then I was also bailing off skateboards in the 70s!

In reply to Trangia:




"Take" and "take in" don't mean the same thing though. Take in just means take in some rope because there's too much slack, the opposite of pay out.
"Take me" would be a more suitable alternative to "take"

In reply to pec:


"Take in slack" generally has the most entertainment value though.

In reply to humptydumpty:

Interesting discussion. I really don't know the answer.

The other expression which says it all about how you are feeling as a leader is "watch me here!"

In reply to James Malloch:

I myself can act like a complete bellend. I am not offended by being called a cock in the slightest.
One of my friends is homosexual he laughs when he gets scared and I call him a fairy! It's all mindless banter and piss taking that's how we roll mudda trucker!
I have children and my 19 year old daughter would piss her self laughing reading this. She thinks it's hilarious how we take climbing rocks so seriously. As do I especially those beanie wearing bellends. I wear a cap of coarse!

In reply to rtinma:

Maybe I missed the explanation above, apologies for repeating this if I have, but isn't 'send' from the Elvis song 'return to sender'.

A major American artist of course and a term popularised through American culture to appear in various forms and applications, which in this case is 'returning The climb from where it came' which isn't possible of course but implies its gunna be dispatched?!

On a related point, there is definatly something fairly hot hearing female American accents saying 'nice, nice' etc when making moves, can be abit off putting though.

In reply to rtinma:

Whatever happened to people calling 'yeah, stick it!' up at their beanie wearing chums?

In my circle of friends we tend to go with shouts of 'good move', and maybe 'good lead' to acknowledge when you have suffered to second a route.

A couple of the 'best' phrases I've ever heard at the crag:

That nut is bomber! it's Barack o'bomber

I'm doing a Christian Bale [bailing off]

In reply to James Malloch:



Ah you're one of those. You're offended for people you don't know, who may or may not be offended.

First time on t'internet is it?

In reply to Steve-J-E:

Any body still say "you creamed it mate"?

In reply to rtinma:

Climbing slang words... the more ridiculous the better! Love that shit.

In reply to rtinma:

i've often wondered who first came up with 'doing a Desmond' (as in Dekker, of 'Israelites' fame)... i love that one, for some reason.

In reply to Trangia:




Yep, I've had a very near miss with this one. I no longer use either term. I shout "On belay" instead of "Safe" and "No!" or "Bollox!" instead of "Take". And I am much happier person now.

In reply to Robert Durran:

It's quite clear when I climb:

"Take in" - there's some slack
"TAKE" - much louder - I need a rest/scared
"SH*T" - I'm falling

In reply to James Malloch:


It's probably not just you, but you might find the following helpful..

"c*nts", "bastards", "bellends" = acceptable language. If these terms offend you, you're very likely to be a bellend.

"benders" = unacceptable language. If you use this term, you're a probably c*nt.

"pussies" = it depends. There's a fair probability of both people that use the term and people that are offended by the term being bellends.

In reply to James Malloch:


Totally agree.

I also think some people feel safer hiding behind their keyboards knowing there's no comeback if they do offend someone, than they would if they were in a face to face setting.

In reply to Robert Durran:

Hold the fall, catch the climber?

Anyway, the maximally idiotic climbing language is encouraging the climber to use more body tension by telling them to "f*ck the wall....". So stupid it really caught on with my climbing mates, especially when totally useless, e.g. when a leader is unsure about the next few moves on a low angle friction slab.

CB

In reply to stp:

looking for a belay bunny at kilnsey this week if you fancy it mate? dont worry i dont wear lycra anymore! and i'm good on the ropes!

In reply to Robert Durran:


That reminds me of the first time. I climbed with a Frenchman and heard cries of aval. I thought it must be a derivation of downstream i.e. Give me slack. Wrong! It comes from avaler, and he was yelling to swallow the rope, keep me tight, or as I once heard from a hard pressed second, keep me snug.

snug.

In reply to rtinma:

People shouting 'Allez allez!' when I'm bouldering really annoys me. A simple 'hon tay f*ck!' will suffice.

In reply to rtinma:

When people use the word "crag" when they mean "Jutty rock bit"

When people use the word "crash pad" when they mean "field mattress"

When people use the word "rock climbing" when they mean "Jolly upwards bimbling"

When people use the word "bouldering gym" when they mean "acid nightmare zone"

When people use the words "Kalymnos, Font, Stanage or Yosemite" when they mean "Foreign"

When people use the word "Cam" when they mean "Friend"

When people use the word "Friend" when they mean "Work associate"

When people use the word "climbing harness" when the mean "Travel sex swing"

In reply to sammy5000:

Good for him. Others might not.
I hate the way how one or two people being okay with something extends to it being okay to use more generally.



I also hate how "banter" seems to been an okay excuse to say pretty much anything.

I was near to some people on the train this week who were, whilst surrounded by families and other travellers. The used the word "banter" a lot whilst f'ing and blinding and saying very untastful jokes.

It's embarrassing how some people can act whilst hiding behind the "banter" excuse.

I'm not saying what's on here is necessarily as bad but I think people should think about the languages and phrases they use before pressing send...

In reply to rtinma:

I keep stamps in my chalk bag, for all the sending I do...

In reply to SenzuBean:



But not Dallas?

In reply to johnjohn:


So lame... but I'll still give you a like